I have a question. How do You trimm Your board differently when You use a 115 fuselage instead of the 100 fuselage.

Mast base forward, how far?
Straps forward?
backwing shim?

BR

Alex

The race to 30... now 40 kts
The 1st 40kts you will never forget! Daniele Benedetti in Windfoil!! (seabreeze.com.au)

www.seabreeze.com.au/Videos/View/20973072/Windsurfing/The-1st-40kts-you-will-never-forget-Daniele-Benedetti-in-Windfoil/?m=1

Meanwhile the PWA guys are pushing 38 knots in races!

Harness line tip

www.instagram.com/reel/C-KMaQVos-U/?igsh=djJhbmsxYnVuZmZ6

This is a very good information for faster foiling. ?si=MVL0D9UiE3AfsjgI

Really intresting to read this post, It tooks me a few hours to read and wacht the video. Berowne thanks for all information and tips about speed foil. Did you use still CHS Aero foil? Are you in a what's app group CHS Family? I bought and start with race foil for few months ago and I'm looking forward to break my PB(Just 22kts??). I was in a CHS Factory in July to say hello to my friend Claudio Badiali owners of CHS Wind solution, and we talk about Daniele Benedetti. The guy have potential to brake 45 knots in a foil for sure!!! I hope soon for a new record for him.
Anyways thank you for all information and good luck all the guys here with a new PB foil speed session!!!

Hey Ventomax, thanks for the feedback and yes, I'm in the w^ group for CHS, and started one for F4 .

I'm still using F4 new GP foils now, yet to push past my PB of 32 but keen. Still using mostly CHS sails from 2022/23 and a few Patrik's. I also just got myself a WingFoil (don't hat me) and a jet ski license (don't c u rs e me!). but no new sails

Select to expand quote

cad184 said..
I have a question. How do You trimm Your board differently when You use a 115 fuselage instead of the 100 fuselage.

Mast base forward, how far?
Straps forward?
backwing shim?

BR

Alex

Sorry if we all missed this Alex.
the main difference for longer fuselage is they typically hold the front foil further forward which matters. A longer fuselage will also have the rear foil further back which can help with stability but adds a little drag.
so with the front foil further forward you will need to move the mast pressure further forward and possibly a lower powered shim.

"ONLY" 29 knots today.
Watch said 29.75
MiniMotion 29.4

Felt fast to me!!!

QotD

"32kts so pretty slow!"
Pierre Mortofon

?si=TKGSFIJE5qCfstAu&t=6232
1 hr 43min

F4 GP Wahoo WindFoil Review
feel I am getting close to my peak fin days. I used to make a peak speed of 30kts every time I went out regardless of wind being 7.7 down to 5.0.
The new gen foils are certainly capable of cracking 30 knots with gusts as low as say 16. and certainly 19 as I proved !

Hit my new PB today: 27.07kts!!! Been wanting to get over the 27 mark for a while, so pretty stoked. I was hooting across the water. It was a good end to what started as a very crap one. First go pumping up on the foil when I got out - snapped my Slake 460 - right at the base of the boom clamp, broke clean in two. Couldn't believe it! Wind was about 18kts.

Went back in and rigged a Severne 460 top half and 490 bottom half, with extension reduced by the extra length. Seemed to rig pretty well on my HG4 7m. I tried out my small foil set for the first time: Starboard 560SLR front wing / Evo mk2 99 fuse / 180 SLR2 rear. Using a Starboard Freeride 150 (85cm board). I had everything set right back - mast base almost at the back of the track. Footstraps in rear most hole. Started with the +0.5 shim. Ride was super back footed, there was quite a bit of swell and I could barely keep the nose off the water. Foil felt pretty loose to begin with - almost like there was a lot of MB pressure, and the board was rolling to leeward.

I eventually went back in and changed to the +1 shim. This made the ride a bit better. Still quite back-footed. However, I can see what others have said - while the ride was rear-footed at 20kts, it was much more balanced at 25kts. Got one good downwind run on relatively flat water and hit my 27. Felt pretty in control too. I'm going to put my back footstraps on again - following the recommendation of others for getting more speed (and control at speed)

Select to expand quote

shaneNZ said..
Hit my new PB today: 27.07kts!!! Been wanting to get over the 27 mark for a while, so pretty stoked. I

Nice story Shane! Congrats on the PB. my early 30 knots were on ridiculously small foils like 337, 420, 400 and now almost 540. The new gear should definitely be capable. Enjoy the ride and Send It

Hi.
Is there big difference of mast rake in 3,6 degrees and 2,4 ?
On my JP Hydrofoil slalom pro 180l I can do just 2.4 .
I use F4 101 mast , with 100+3 fuselage 660 , 560 , 400 and back 190 without shims .
But can only reach max of 25kn.
With sails 7.8, 7.2, 6.2.
Winds from 10 to 23kn.
Water is rough not flat ,swell from 40 to 80cm.

Select to expand quote

BulSurf said..
Hi.
Is there big difference of mast rake in 3,6 degrees and 2,4 ?
On my JP Hydrofoil slalom pro 180l I can do just 2.4 .
I use F4 101 mast , with 100+3 fuselage 660 , 560 , 400 and back 190 without shims .
But can only reach max of 25kn.
With sails 7.8, 7.2, 6.2.
Winds from 10 to 23kn.
Water is rough not flat ,swell from 40 to 80cm.

hi Bul
I'm not sure I can tell the difference in rake while on the foil. there is more drag pumping up with higher rake, since the foil is pointing downhill.

it takes PWA level skills to crack 30kts in 50cm swell !! Most mere mortals find a reef or sandbar or Seawall to sail near

good luck!

More about gybing since I couldn't crack 30 today.

I had some mixed results last week at NSW state slalom races for round 1. I managed to get almost every position from 2nd to 2nd last including the wipeout on Insta. Got 3rd overall for 2 days!

Today I was on FMX 91 Hyperion board, F4 GP 95 mst and wahoo 540 170w -0.5? with power from CHS 8 Aero sail.

I worked on trim and found some good settings with some big changes!

Basically I increased instead of decreasing foil power. I usually prefer this foil at 2? but today rode at 3? which is a lot. I can barely hold the foil down at 20 knots board speed with the rear wing at 3.5?!!!

I also moved my stance forward - all the way, and inboard. Rear straps have 2 rows of holes but the front only one so I had to use the foot straps off centre holes to hold the strap deeper in the board.
1 min insta video below.

www.instagram.com/reel/DBnyw1-pW9k/?igsh=YzE2NTBybGJicGg5

For the gybes a friendly PWA rider reminded me to keep the sail forward on long arms which works in combination with the extra foil lift.

Next I just need to work out how to keep this extra power in the water.

New Thoughts on Feet Pressure, Sail Mast Base, Rear Shim Angle and Power setup.

I recently did 30kt run rear foot heavy run and previously plenty of 29kt runs with a front foot biased setup but what does this mean and how can you get the most out of your foil and setup?


After chatting with some PWA riders (JG!) I have been setting up with steeper rear angle shims and moving the foot straps forward to help keep the strong foil lift under control.

This means I typically push my body weight FORWARD by using the rear foot as an anchor, squatting down and moving my hips as far forward as I need.

Not today! Here is a short video of what 30 knots feels like riding F4 GP100 Wahoo 366 Patrik 5 0 85 Phantom R mk2 GS010526.

30kts was [almost as] comfortable as it can be... This combo was quite a back foot heavy setup which meant when I sheeted in to accelerate at slower speeds I had to push against the FRONT foot strap to keep my weight and pressure back... to stop the nose dipping at lower speeds with such a small foil.

You can see at the start of the run my front leg is nearly straight and my hips closer to my back foot.


But as I accelerated and gained more lift from the foil I shift my body weight forward with a straight back leg...



The thing I noticed a lot was the shift in pressure points as I accelerated. I kind of like the more compact geometry having the mast base further back, foot straps forward and everything closer.

In contrast on my 540 foil recently I've been riding very front foot heavy, meaning right from the start I need to down weight the nose and angle the board earlier and steeper. This is a more aggressive riding style that suits racing as you need all the power you can manage to ensure you have enough in the lulls.

The higher angle of attack will mean you get more lift earlier so low wind flight becomes easier and maybe contributes to a higher average speed but potentially lower or more risky maximum speeds.


SO WHAT:?:
But the ultimate point is, you need to match your trim setup as best you can. More foil power, mast forward (but not too far) and be aware that you should aim for a comfortable setup at your target speed and compromise when slower. Be prepared to ride back-foot heavy (push back against the front strap) sometimes, and push your weight forward (by pushing against the rear strap) at other times. Aim for a balanced mid-point at your target speed so you have enough room to move forward when overpowered!

Question: How do YOU cope with an overpowered foil at 30kts?

Question from the internet

Select to expand quote

I've read your comment "30kts was comfortable as it can be... quite a back foot heavy setup which ironically meant when I sheeted in to accelerate I had to push AGAINST the front foot strap to keep my weight and pressure back... lately when overpowered by the foil I've been pushing hard against the back foot strap to move my body weight forward. Not today!".

This is very interesting and I'd really appreciate if you would like to go deeper. I mean, I'm still in high 26 kts speed range and not yet any close to 30 kts. I've mostly scored using a 530 cmq thin f.w. or a previous (more powerful and thicker) 400 cmq f.w.. With new model wing there's a lot of margin to set up for good speeds across the wing condition range. The older model is much more sharp. I also have a new 410 cmq thin f.w. but used it only once (combined with the new fuselage and few days later I've got the new items) because i found my set up too back footed. Then I didn't find the right chance to use it again. I'm trying to figure how to set up for 20 kts+ wind / 5,2 in terms of mast base placement and amount of tail wind shim. Usually I foil in flattish water but gusty wind

If your setup is backfooted... you obviously can move the mast rearward, or increase power with a shim. If you want you can also move the front footstraps back one or two holes as this impacts the balance points too!

Recently I moved my back footstraps forward as well so I can push my bodyweight even further forward when I'm up to speed and need more down pressure.

Also in the off days, drop a squat!

To push through high 20's on large foils, and even small, you need to sheet in hard and drive / fly the foil with some strength. 30+ is not a passive ride so build up some thighs!

I did it again! Another 30kt run, this time with a 540 front wing that goes from 8kts to 30kts! What versatility!

Mind you I don't think I would want to do 30 through the swells! Only averaged about 26-27kts max across Botany Bay between Kyeemagh and Kurnell

Anyway what I realised when I posted the last few comments above is that I was being too passive at speed. I needed more power to go faster. I had to overcome the fear barrier and the drag resistance from the foil and just "Send IT!" as Ben says.

Fast (note the long tail of spray!) but front hand-brake is on. Bent elbow depowers the sail. Open sheeting angle back of sail off the board!


Same, hand-brake is on, body weight more forward and front leg bent... fighting for control!

More POWER! Sail sheeted in. Back leg pushing hips outboard, front arm straight.

Different angle. Power is ON! but a little bit sheeted out ...

Safety mode is slow... Back foot out but still weight via the harness lines.

Chicken mode... no harness back foot more forward.

I am not nearly as fast as You, so great to read Your recommendations. I use a 2023 Fmx Hyperion 91 with Point 7 Foilslalom sails and a Iris R foil(930, 730, 550, 430, 350 frontwings). I get to 27 kts but not more yet.

I am courious that You change Your Mast base position a lot.

When You look at pics from Pwa Fmx riders the use the Mastbase around 130,5/131 and they say the only change it a little (+- 0,5cm) with the same fuse.

Don't You think it is a sign that when You have to move the mast base that much (+ 4 cm) that something else with the trim is not right (footstraps, backwing shim)? Maybe it is necessary when You are very overpowered.

The longer I am foiling the more I trim my setup to more lift. Overfoiling is not an issue any more at normal speeds and I learned to keep the foil in the water with harness pressure. Makes everything easier.

Really stay commited downwind with both feets in the straps still feels scary, but maybe thats normal and You have to get used to it (I am not yet).

so please keep posting about Your setup!

Hi Cad184.

I do move the mast base depending on the foil and board I am using... since some have different geometry.
I have also found my technique allows me to adapt to a bad setup more easily with more experience.

One thing I have noticed with the F4 GP foils at 30kts is the default 2.5 degree AoA is providing a lot of lift and I have the MB far forward, which works, but means the sail is a long way forward. I think I prefer to keep everything closer but that is 2nd order problem, and can be achieved with less power from the shims.... but then light wind takeoff and gybing is compromised... OK for speed runs but not ideal for races.

My fav run ever was the first 32kt run on the old CA400 F4 foil... not scared and actually comfortable. I'm getting closer to that feeling with the new setup but not quite there yet.

Hi Cad184.

I do move the mast base depending on the foil and board I am using... since some have different geometry.
I have also found my technique allows me to adapt to a bad setup more easily with more experience.

One thing I have noticed with the F4 GP foils at 30kts is the default 2.5 degree AoA is providing a lot of lift and I have the MB far forward, which works, but means the sail is a long way forward. I think I prefer to keep everything closer but that is 2nd order problem, and can be achieved with less power from the shims.... but then light wind takeoff and gybing is compromised... OK for speed runs but not ideal for races.

My fav run ever was the first 32kt run on the old CA400 F4 foil... not scared and actually comfortable. I'm getting closer to that feeling with the new setup but not quite there yet.

This is funny. In the beginning of foiling, in 2016 and 2017, most people said they didn't care about speed. They just wanted to foil.

However, when two or more gather together, there will be a race. Speed became more important. And now, look at this thread. I love it. Racing transitioned from formula and slaom into foiling just fine. We all benefit from those innovations and advancements.

In 2017 I bought my stuff from Sailworks. Those guys are ONLY about speed. My first foil was a speed demon and VERY difficult to learn on. Now, eight foils later, I do fine, but I'm still not fast. Don't need to be.

Fast is fun, until you hit the water.

?si=SwD20eDbVbaceG_g

I often read that to improve speed in foil you need to apply as much pressure as possible on the mast foot by hanging onto the boom being hooked to the harness ...It should be added "starting from the moment the lift starts to be excessive"...
Otherwise this technique only leads to pushing down the whole kit increasing the drag and slowing down...

Therefore (for a GPS scoring program and to not "kill your back"): is it necessary to adjust yourself so as to ALWAYS have a certain amount of lift (depending on the conditions of the day, the kit used, the weight and the personal level) to "counteract" in order to accelerate?

In general I try to have a neutral trim but it seems to me that this does not give me particular benefits in terms of maximum speed.

I tried to set myself according to the new trend (large thickness under the stabilizer, boom at shoulder height). Despite the intense wind, taking off is more challenging (but I already knew that) and low speed range is really back pain drama. For me, above all, tilting the board windward was almost impossible...
I would say that in addition to making a series of mistakes, it is clear that my level does not allow me to fly with this configuration..

Another thing I did not expect is the greater difficulty in flying in trim while using the 78 compared to the 85. The small board is certainly more "sporty" and demanding in terms of setting.

At the moment I am stuck at the 28 kts threshold and I can't find a way to improve...

Hi W100

Have you got any videos from onboard? Video can help.
For top speed you do need to be comfortable. And with power. With smaller sails 7m and below speeds are easier. I often setup for slalom with a lower boom than for course racing.
Getting comfortable at 28 will give you a chance for 30. So keep pushing!

If your board is stable below 25 maybe shim a touch less. If your body is too far forward at 28 you might not have any spare downforce above. Also I'm trying to fly with more board roll angle into the wind so my heels are down more. Less lift at speed but more available when horizontal.
send it!

I still get asked the secret to push past the 30 knot barrier.

Select to expand quote

Still getting a lot of questions about this... but if you are new to the thread.... there is a lot to read. So I got perplexity to do a deep dive and the results are;

www.perplexity.ai/search/review-this-long-multi-page-bl-gGWN2.4fR_G1mHLHvhjtjg#0

Select to expand quote

berowne said..

Still getting a lot of questions about this... but if you are new to the thread.... there is a lot to read. So I got perplexity to do a deep dive and the results are;

www.perplexity.ai/search/review-this-long-multi-page-bl-gGWN2.4fR_G1mHLHvhjtjg#0

Brilliant summary, how cool is AI!