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berowne said..

Bellerophon said..
Some free tips from a fellow Hyperion rider.

- your harness lines seem rather short, esp given the light conditions. Better get way back from the boom.
- there's NO WAY he should be able to pass above you. When you hear him comming , start pointing upwind
- once you master the flyiing jibe, in these (marginal slalom) conditions, you should always be able to stay in front .. (even after jibing around him )

Good luck !

Thanks Bellerophon! I definitely need to keep more speed through the gybes. I find it harder to keep the small wing flying the whole way around. When I do get out on the race wings they seem so floaty!

I don't have trouble pointing on the slalom runs. If anything, I'm finding it harder to push on a mildly broad reach, say 100? to 120? And so I was trying to follow Remi's lines.
Bellerophon, how open/deep do you set you footstraps? I find I like having the rear foot especially deep so my toes are closer to the centreline.

My straps are rather tight: only my toes are passing through. However, I don't use the backstraps.
Never quite understood the "get in the straps before flying" tip till I saw half of the top 10 in Silvaplana wasn't using them either. I feel the same as you having to place the back foot closer to the centerline than the straps allow.
Only when really pointing upwind can I get on the rails.

About the flying jibe : be sure to place the back foot well over the centerline and let go of the backhand whenever the nose of the board passes through the "11 or 1 hr clock position "

Good luck.

I've been looking back at the Tiberias races... exciting stuff!

This is what i meant about board angle to windward to control the lift at speed...


?list=PLrcs_TaHo3TYPJOMa0Aq6xyE7wfcoZuyF

How about 37.45 knots / 500 m ?
(sorry, he's not on F4 )

www.facebook.com/princeofthespeed/videos/236862195092197/

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Bellerophon said..
How about 37.45 knots / 500 m ?
(sorry, he's not on F4 )

www.facebook.com/princeofthespeed/videos/236862195092197/

Yes! Be interesting to see what happens at the PoS event. Unfortunately I can't find a table of results anywhere... could be close to 40kts peak for 2s too. WOW

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berowne said..

Bellerophon said..
How about 37.45 knots / 500 m ?
(sorry, he's not on F4 )

www.facebook.com/princeofthespeed/videos/236862195092197/

Yes! Be interesting to see what happens at the PoS event. Unfortunately I can't find a table of results anywhere... could be close to 40kts peak for 2s too. WOW

So I had an epic session yesterday... looked light, about 10kts so rigged a Phantom 9.0 IRIS sail and 620cm2 large slalom F4 front wing and 210 rear on 100cm fueslage with no shims.

A couple of pumps and it was up easily enogh. I was flying around stalled windwings and other foilers on large wings and smaller sails (which felt annoyingly good. . . !).

Now that I've found "the sweet spot" for the mast base and each fueslage/wing set, 20 knots has become relaxing, 24 knots seems to be a natural peak for crusing (maybe when lift and drag match?), and 25 knots and above, while not 'comfortable' certainly is much more managable.

Yesterday I was hooked in and riding both footstraps in smooth offshore waters with the gap closed riding in a slalom style stance for the moderate gusts (pushing both front and back legs really driving the foil - felt great!) and monkey man hanging off the boom with bent knees for the overpowered runs, balancing board pitch and roll and still trying to keep the power on. Gap closed, foot of the sail on the centreline or there abouts. Felt pretty good actually!

2 Second Peak (kts):26.824
Top 10 sec speeds: 25.078

Should I have changed down a sail size? or Front Wing?

But the real question is... should I have changed down a sail size? Or front wing? As the wind built getting going was less of an issue, and controlling the sail forces was becoming harder. I finally came in when I couldn't sheet in (30 degrees open) and was in survival mode on a reach. I swapped down to a 5.8 slalom sail I found lying on the beach and could just keep it sheeted in on the 2nd or 3rd run after getting used to the new feel.

Lesson Learnt: Phantom Foiling Race sails are AWESOME! The stability in that rig was amazing, felt almost like a fixed wing.

I'm starting to think that the bent leg stance common in Tiberias is more a lack of control and pushing through the legs like slalom will be faster. Like this clip.


fb.watch/8TEmwPiSqn/

So I finally did it! 30knots on the GPS.


Just not for 2s. But hey this was the first time out on a new foil in gusty 10-30knots.

The wind turned it on yesterday so I rigged my foil for speed.... much to the amusement of a few Fin loyalists.

F4 337 cm2 area , 560mm span - 100cm fuselage, ~2.7 degree mast angle and 170cm2 tail wing later with 1mm shim
S2 5.0 4 cam slalom sail - originally rigged with high clew hole - firm leech foil style
FMX 91cm Hyperion foil board. I don't think I need an 80cm board just yet as the 91 get fine.



The feel of the new wing was LOOSE! It is so small, it is really easy to ride, much like a wave board. It flies surprisingly early, minimum board speed to fly was about 15kts (I was expecting 20).... and mid-gybe I think it was still flying at 11kts once.

But it does need POWER to fly. Plenty of lulls I was left waiting for the wind.

But I'm not after a good time, I'm after a fast time, so I headed off in search of some flat water. With the wind gusting over 30kts there wasn't a lot to be had. Everywhere I looked had swell over 15cm and in the middle of George's River it was almost a metre! There were a few breaches and unintended arials while I got used to the new wing, and the power at speed. The ride is very much rear foot oriented at 20kts and front foot oriented as you accelerate.

After a break I tried the slalom clew setting since the wind was quite heavy and also added a small shim to the rear wing. This made the board flight a bit more controlled, but also tended to be a little too rear foot oriented and I needed to move the mast back as I kept tapping the waves on a speed run with trim just a little too tricky to balance above 25kts this first time out. This is actually the scariest part of foiling over 25kts... tapping the wave tops is like a handbreak, so balancing flight so you glide above the wave peaks, but don't foil out of the troughs.

Only managed 29.6kts for 2Sec peak on first outing with the wing. More to come, this thing is fast!

I need to try a few more trim options to balance lift above 25kts better. Oh and commit to both footstraps!

Oh and this wing was LOUD! The whistle above 27kts is inspirational... helps to push as the volume increases! Hopefully the video captures it.... pending!

www.ka72.com/Track/t/483557

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berowne said..
So I finally did it! 30knots on the GPS.

Awesome! Glad to hear it takes off sooner than I would expect with such a small front.

Interesting notes on the clew settings too. I've heard something about upper batten tweaking to get more speed as well, but it's not something I understand well enough to apply at the moment.

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berowne said..
I'm starting to think that the bent leg stance common in Tiberias is more a lack of control and pushing through the legs like slalom will be faster. Like this clip.


fb.watch/8TEmwPiSqn/

Just saw this and watched the video - it seems that around 0:18 when he got the gust and bore off, he dropped a bit lower. For your 30 run, what body position were you in?

congrats!

I'm working on the videos soon. basically I'm in a committed position. In the harness. Front foot only. Boom high and lines long but not full monkey man. Aiming to get more outboard and helped over with the back strap next time.

Sheeting in for power.

Scared sheetless (sheeting out, so "less sheet")

Couple of Videos on Youtube

Very Fast:
Less Fast:
Somewhat:
Control Height:

Gotta use rear strap for triangulation, and this allows more weight forward to handle unexpected gusts.

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LeeD said..
Gotta use rear strap for triangulation, and this allows more weight forward to handle unexpected gusts.

Taken when AA was setting the nautical mile record July '20. www.facebook.com/460052047396520/photos/a.460081707393554/3132405796827785/

What foil is AA riding these days. Looks like partnership with F4 no longer exists. It looks like a carbon NP race foil... which doesn't official exist right now (2021). Any ideas?

I assume NP SLR foil (coming soon).

Maybe speed courses are usually set on a downwind course?
Think about it.
Normal rear strap on wide boards is for UPwind course.
He just needs to add a chicken strap.
You DO know what that is for, don't you?

berowne, I love your noises and talking during flight. I could put together some really cool memes. Too funny, love it.

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LeeD said..
Maybe speed courses are usually set on a downwind course?
Think about it.
Normal rear strap on wide boards is for UPwind course.
He just needs to add a chicken strap.
You DO know what that is for, don't you?

Apparently that makes two of us who don't know what a chicken strap is. Hope this guy does okay going upwind without those backstraps...

%2C730&ssl=1

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ZeroVix said..
What foil is AA riding these days. Looks like partnership with F4 no longer exists. It looks like a carbon NP race foil... which doesn't official exist right now (2021). Any ideas?

I assume NP SLR foil (coming soon).

AA is involved in a side-project to re-conquer the absolute speed record on water :
www.windmag.com/actu-marc-amerigo-faire-voler-antoine-albeau-au-dela-40-noeuds-foil-maniere-reguliere-ici-fin-2021-interview

and

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ZeroVix said..
What foil is AA riding these days. Looks like partnership with F4 no longer exists. It looks like a carbon NP race foil... which doesn't official exist right now (2021). Any ideas?

I assume NP SLR foil (coming soon).

I was watching an F4 webinar from last spring last night (yeah, late to the party as usual but it had been on my to do list forever). AA was on it extolling the virtues of the latest F4 design and there was no cobranding with NP on the foil. His relationship with them goes back years. Am I incorrect in assuming he was a big reason that NP outsourced their foil development to them in the first place?

Posting the video because it does have some good tips on mast base changes etc with the plus fuselages etc. from both AA (slalom) and Julien Bontemps (course)

@berowne love the video, not sure which sound is better the AC75 style whistling or the voice over

Thanks for the feedback on the videos... totally unplanned!
I think these videos show just how intense 30kts is on a foil... I've done 39.9kts on a speed board and been so much less terrified. Mind you a wipeout close to 40 on a fin feels about the same as a wipeout at 30 on a foil. Can't wait to wipeout my foil at 40!

On NP foils,... I've heard a rumour they are still F4 designs but unbranded.

I am enjoying the F4 experience. Looking forward to a nice consistent 20kt NorEast seabreeze on Saturday. Hopeing for some 30kt runs with control!

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Paducah said..

ZeroVix said..
What foil is AA riding these days. Looks like partnership with F4 no longer exists. It looks like a carbon NP race foil... which doesn't official exist right now (2021). Any ideas?

I assume NP SLR foil (coming soon).

I was watching an F4 webinar from last spring last night (yeah, late to the party as usual but it had been on my to do list forever). AA was on it extolling the virtues of the latest F4 design and there was no cobranding with NP on the foil. His relationship with them goes back years. Am I incorrect in assuming he was a big reason that NP outsourced their foil development to them in the first place?

Posting the video because it does have some good tips on mast base changes etc with the plus fuselages etc. from both AA (slalom) and Julien Bontemps (course)

Not to hijack the thread, but someone else is taking credit for building the new NP carbon race foils.

www.neilpryde.com/products/flight-slr

Wonder what is in store for 2022 with F4.

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Freeflight said..

lhtrindade said..
Hi Berowne,

Nice post, lots of useful information.

Here I have been sailing on a big race kit, my top speed was 28kts with 0.5 shims, using GA Vapor AIR 9.1 and Tabou AIRRIDE+.

I changed to 1.0 shims, but couldn`t try top speed because my last session had some swell.

I don`t know if I missed anything, but do you have been checking the rake of the foil mast? I have been sailing with 1,5 and with some swell was very hard to do some downwind legs...yesterday I changed to 2.0-1.8 and changed a lot the feeling of the board on the downwind.

Also, just changing how much downhaul you put on the sail changed a loooot the balance of the foil.

This F4 sounds exciting, did you use 115 or 115plus for your top speed 28 with 9.1m sail

I used the 115+ all the time.

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berowne said..
Sheeting in for power.

Scared sheetless (sheeting out, so "less sheet")

Congrats Berowne!! Really a great mark. How was to jibe with this wing besides the minimum speed (roll and pitch control)? Do you did some races against fins with or without marks?

I don`t know if is the angle of the camera, but looks like you are very upright, looking at the top guys doing slalom foil, they use very long harness lines and stay like "sitting stance". In my experience (only with big sail and foil), the sitting stance helps a lot to depower the foil and keep the nose down to speed up.

So my next session was Saturday in a summer N/E seabreeze, but no more steady, gusting from 10 to maybe 25 knots at times but mostly 20kt peaks.

#F4Foils 337 cm2 area , 560mm span - 100cm fuselage, ~2.2 degree mast angle and 190cm2 tail wing starting with 1mm shim then 0.7mm then none at the end as my confidence increased.
#LoftSails 7.0 4 cam SkyBlade 2022 - originally rigged with high clew hole - firm leech foil style then slalom high wind clew later.
#FMX 91cm Hyperion foil boardAfter about 20 more runs I got a bit more confident and started leaving the back foot in the straps, sitting in the harness and really driving through the legs. Takeoff needed the board to be planing and a few of the lulls left me wanting more, but in the gusts, I could just hold most of the power my 7.0 could deliver.

Top 10 runs all 28 to 29 knots. Getting pretty consistent!







Towards the end of the day, as the sun was setting and my 2x GPS were warning me of low batteries, I started actually ENJOYING foiling at 29knots! My stance switched to speed style, pushing the power through my back leg, leveraging against the board, using my front foot to control foil roll angle and therefore pitch, rather than trying to push the nose down... and loading up the long harness lines, with some dramatic hip movement. The sail was raked back and I was outrunning all fin and foil sailors alike... except our PWA style NSW champion, he still had a few knots on me! Just not upwind! I'd gained so much confidencde I had even removed the rear shim entirely with the mast forward 5mm to compensate.

I really am starting to think the 'monkey stance' we saw in the PWA events is guys sailing in 'survival mode' and not really driving the foil. The larger wings are necessary for gybe height and power in the lulls, but for peak speed the excess power becomes hard to control.

This guy seems to have a comfortable speed stance too:
www.instagram.com/reel/CXssP04A-CT/

So it's official! Full 30kt recording for 2 seconds on GW60 (www.ka72.com/Track/t/484541)
And 30.6 off the Garmin which is obviously more inaccurate! (www.ka72.com/Track/t/484547)

What have I learned ?

Small foils are faster. Although I haven't anyone to work on this with, but I feel at 80kg I'm on the lighter side and appreciate the control and lower lift of a smaller foil. 337cm is TINY but let's you push down and feel the effect.
Shims are good for control but the manufacturer has warned me they add drag and should be avoided. I've decided to use a tiny 0.7mm (1.5 degrees I think?) shim to help with control, since you can't go fast if your not. Bigger shims are helpful as you learn to control the speed but I haven't used 2mm shims for a while.
Shorter Fuselages are faster. Longer fuselages are more stable and long+ version (much) more powerful, and don't seem to be that much slower if you compare my Nautical Mile from yesterday (www.ka72.com/Track/t/484459) on 115+ with today. I'm sure, side by side less drag would be good, but depending on your setup 30kts and more is definately achievable with power, just make sure you can keep the nose down (I couldn't!).
Rear Footstraps are Great! It's taken me a while, but I've learned to love my back strap.
Foil Sails are Nicer! Definately not absolutely necessary (I was using a 5.0 S2 Venom slalom 4 cam sail to crack 30kts). My 7.0 Loft SkyBlade gave me great confidence to push (rather than hang on for dear life) but that might also be the conditions... smaller swell when riding a 7 vs 5m sail!
Flat Water please! You can't go fast if your bouncing off swell. Water is SO SLOW if you drag your board down so make sure you keep your altitude steady.
Mast Base takes some adjusting! For 20kts I really like my slalom setup at 132cm from the tail, but at 30kts I need it at 135 or 136. If you sheet in and nose dive, move it back. For pure speed you want to be a little back foot heavy and drive off the fin. Fun!

Congrats !!!!
Been telling you the same.
Should qualify that while 95 fuze might be faster than 120 [I've used both], short is still 85-95.

I just had a blazing 30knot peak session between SGSC & GRSC on George's river in a gusty 10-25+ knot SW-S-SE. Felt as gusty as typical W! The setup:
FMX 178 LR Hyperion 91 wide board was awesome. Felt like the rake should have been higher than 1.5? and mast base maybe 1cm forward of 132 setting but overall pretty stable!

Loft SkyBlade 7.0 dedicated foiling sail was super stable. Had it rigged to the trim dot but maybe should have given it an extra 1cm downhaul to compare. Didn't try. Too cold.
F4 560cm2 front wing mounted on 100cm fuselage with larger slalom rear wing 210cm. No shims! brave? stupid? Fast! Could have done with a small shim in hindsight!

The ride was amazingly comfortable at 25-28 knots. and absolutely on edge of my ability at 30! The reaction time needed to move as little as 2cm or 50% body weight depending on the gust and water state takes commitment. A few times I had to slow down because I knew I was getting fatigued or distracted. And a few times I was too late