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utcminusfour said..

Paducah said..
For those of us running the mast base in a more traditional position, what's the difference in feel and stance?

JJ, Are you using your usual sail to mast distance? Can you even get to those dims on that lill nugget?

It's approx 85 cm from the front of the foil-mast to the mid mast-base position.
Footstrap spacing is 60cm

no-noses are definitely harder to get going because they drag like crazy in displacement mode - but I think I can feel the lightness upfront on foil

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Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

utcminusfour said..
Good topic JJ and that's a cool looking set up! Obviously, I have been influenced by wing and DW boards. The Fanatic Sky wing has always looked right to me. Looking at the pic today it's pretty short on nose volume even for someone with no nose skillz.

Eugenius 2.0 that board looks sic! Thanks for posting, that brand was not on my radar.

Mr Keen your board has been one of favorite design of this new revolution! That pic really shows all the shape in the nose. Any chance I could get a model or drawing? No worries if it's proprietary.

Hey mate please don't use one of those SkyWings

they fall to bits on land and are not sufficient for a couple of seasons of normal winging.
i would hate to see you lose your foil

Asking for a friend (63 kg) ... how about the Sky SUPs, same issue?

If it's the same purple with see thru vector net carbon - very much so
welll - the track install is marginally better but the whole board is very lightweight on the outer lam
if you added a fair bit you might be ok

Will a few layers of glass over the track area help? Not a big winger but no sense in breaking things unnecessarily.

Problem is the foil mast to front foot to mast base stress. Solved by lots of carbon on top for buckling resistance and glass over tracks to midpoint on bottom.

By then its a lot of work....

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azymuth said..

no-noses are definitely harder to get going because they drag like crazy in displacement mode - but I think I can feel the lightness upfront on foil

True Dat . My "No nose" 90L wizard can be tricky to launch in boat chop and marginal wind. I sometimes use the back side of a boat wave to get me a "downhill run" to get speed. Sure is great when I'm up though. So light and maneuverable.

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Mark _australia said..

Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

utcminusfour said..
Good topic JJ and that's a cool looking set up! Obviously, I have been influenced by wing and DW boards. The Fanatic Sky wing has always looked right to me. Looking at the pic today it's pretty short on nose volume even for someone with no nose skillz.

Eugenius 2.0 that board looks sic! Thanks for posting, that brand was not on my radar.

Mr Keen your board has been one of favorite design of this new revolution! That pic really shows all the shape in the nose. Any chance I could get a model or drawing? No worries if it's proprietary.

Hey mate please don't use one of those SkyWings

they fall to bits on land and are not sufficient for a couple of seasons of normal winging.
i would hate to see you lose your foil

Asking for a friend (63 kg) ... how about the Sky SUPs, same issue?

If it's the same purple with see thru vector net carbon - very much so
welll - the track install is marginally better but the whole board is very lightweight on the outer lam
if you added a fair bit you might be ok

Will a few layers of glass over the track area help? Not a big winger but no sense in breaking things unnecessarily.

Problem is the foil mast to front foot to mast base stress. Solved by lots of carbon on top for buckling resistance and glass over tracks to midpoint on bottom.

By then its a lot of work....

Oh, sorry, thanks for the detailed answer but just to use as a wing board. You'd mentioned seeing them fail in that mode. I would agree that I'd be leery of the added stresses of a sail mast base, etc.

Select to expand quote

Mark _australia said..

Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

Paducah said..

Mark _australia said..

utcminusfour said..
Good topic JJ and that's a cool looking set up! Obviously, I have been influenced by wing and DW boards. The Fanatic Sky wing has always looked right to me. Looking at the pic today it's pretty short on nose volume even for someone with no nose skillz.

Eugenius 2.0 that board looks sic! Thanks for posting, that brand was not on my radar.

Mr Keen your board has been one of favorite design of this new revolution! That pic really shows all the shape in the nose. Any chance I could get a model or drawing? No worries if it's proprietary.

Hey mate please don't use one of those SkyWings

they fall to bits on land and are not sufficient for a couple of seasons of normal winging.
i would hate to see you lose your foil

Asking for a friend (63 kg) ... how about the Sky SUPs, same issue?

If it's the same purple with see thru vector net carbon - very much so
welll - the track install is marginally better but the whole board is very lightweight on the outer lam
if you added a fair bit you might be ok

Will a few layers of glass over the track area help? Not a big winger but no sense in breaking things unnecessarily.

Problem is the foil mast to front foot to mast base stress. Solved by lots of carbon on top for buckling resistance and glass over tracks to midpoint on bottom.

By then its a lot of work....

ohhh my... I have been playing around with the 95L skywing and thought it was the bees' knees. So I bought a very cheap 130L sky wing, thinking that I might convert it over to a windfoil. That is a bit of a bummer.
My spot usually has a horrible shore break, so I was trying to buy the shortest board possible so that I could manhandle it through the surf.
Mark, what do you think about a 2022 AK PHAZER V2 6'2" ?30.25"?140L ? Would that be a better choice for a conversion?

Also,
anyone tried converting one of those narrow downwind foil boards into a wind foil?
I think years and years ago, there was a board that Jim Drake had a hand in called the Serenity and it was long and narrow and just glided through the water, and it looks like with these wind foiling boards, like the slingshot stuff, all the straps are inboard, so you don't need a huge amount of hiking out so would it be possible to go for a long skinny wind foil or do you loose all that dynamic turning? Anyway, I would love some edumecation on the subject.

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Henners said..
Also,
anyone tried converting one of those narrow downwind foil boards into a wind foil?
I think years and years ago, there was a board that Jim Drake had a hand in called the Serenity and it was long and narrow and just glided through the water, and it looks like with these wind foiling boards, like the slingshot stuff, all the straps are inboard, so you don't need a huge amount of hiking out so would it be possible to go for a long skinny wind foil or do you loose all that dynamic turning? Anyway, I would love some edumecation on the subject.

I designed and built a board inspired by that trend and it did not work for windfoil. Long and skinny can be a good thing but bevels and rocker are not, they prevent planning. It turned out to be a great beginner wing board.
Kalama type for windfoil | Windsurfing Forums, page 1 - Seabreeze

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..

Henners said..
Also,
anyone tried converting one of those narrow downwind foil boards into a wind foil?
I think years and years ago, there was a board that Jim Drake had a hand in called the Serenity and it was long and narrow and just glided through the water, and it looks like with these wind foiling boards, like the slingshot stuff, all the straps are inboard, so you don't need a huge amount of hiking out so would it be possible to go for a long skinny wind foil or do you loose all that dynamic turning? Anyway, I would love some edumecation on the subject.

I designed and built a board inspired by that trend and it did not work for windfoil. Long and skinny can be a good thing but bevels and rocker are not, they prevent planning. It turned out to be a great beginner wing board.
Kalama type for windfoil | Windsurfing Forums, page 1 - Seabreeze

I could not find the original post, but I went to your pictures and had a look. Was it the "funky dory" board ?

I have been looking at the New Phazer and the starboard takeoff, and they both seem to have a very rounded outline.
Is a rounded outline more important for low wind take off? Currently looking at v2 Phazer 140L 6'2" 30.25" (a little bit more square), a starboard Take off 6'4" 31" 4" 130L in Litetech or the same take off 7'1" 32" 4.2".
The take off is marketed as a SUP board, but the Phazer is only marketed as a wing board .... The Difference in price is about $400, as the starboards is still in the box.
Any advice on pros and cons of a more square shape vs round? I am really into it for light wind playing. Here, as soon as the wind comes u,p the waves follow.

Select to expand quote

Henners said..

utcminusfour said..

Henners said..
Also,
anyone tried converting one of those narrow downwind foil boards into a wind foil?
I think years and years ago, there was a board that Jim Drake had a hand in called the Serenity and it was long and narrow and just glided through the water, and it looks like with these wind foiling boards, like the slingshot stuff, all the straps are inboard, so you don't need a huge amount of hiking out so would it be possible to go for a long skinny wind foil or do you loose all that dynamic turning? Anyway, I would love some edumecation on the subject.

I designed and built a board inspired by that trend and it did not work for windfoil. Long and skinny can be a good thing but bevels and rocker are not, they prevent planning. It turned out to be a great beginner wing board.
Kalama type for windfoil | Windsurfing Forums, page 1 - Seabreeze

I could not find the original post, but I went to your pictures and had a look. Was it the "funky dory" board ?

I have been looking at the New Phazer and the starboard takeoff, and they both seem to have a very rounded outline.
Is a rounded outline more important for low wind take off? Currently looking at v2 Phazer 140L 6'2" 30.25" (a little bit more square), a starboard Take off 6'4" 31" 4" 130L in Litetech or the same take off 7'1" 32" 4.2".
The take off is marketed as a SUP board, but the Phazer is only marketed as a wing board .... The Difference in price is about $400, as the starboards is still in the box.
Any advice on pros and cons of a more square shape vs round? I am really into it for light wind playing. Here, as soon as the wind comes u,p the waves follow.

Hi Henners!

Yes, the board I am referring to I named the Funky Dory, sorry I thought I added that post as a hyperlink.

I am no expert. I work designing boats and I am a hobbyist who has designed and built 5 unique windfoil boards and tried a few others. I am learning as I go and drinking from the fire hose because there is a lot to learn so take my input with a grain of salt.

Intuitively the less you force the water to turn the better, so at the moment for windfoil in light air I favor a long narrow outline with straight lines, flat tail rocker and clean crisp edges in the tail. Narrow outline is a tradeoff, you lose uphaul stability and sail carrying leverage in exchange for low drag.

When you are considering cross-over boards especially any that market non foiling SUP or non-foiling wave sailing be very wary of designs with rocker in the tail. This helps the board turn when on the water/waves but really holds back windfoiling take off in marginal conditions. Probably not an issue with the two you mentioned but good to keep in mind.

I always want a board that is easy to uphaul with the front foot in front of the sail and looking at both those boards if you added a sail track forward of the foot strap inserts there will not be much float in front of the mast. Uphauling may not be a priority for you though and with 140 liters of float overall it will be possible to uphaul, but you may have to keep both feet behind the mast. Also, when you see a big range of sizes know that the pictures are of the sexy little one, not the 140l version. It is best to see the beast in person.

While Slingshot has left us behind Tony Logoz hasn't. His new company is building windsurf foiling boards, both for high wind and light. His new Para wing boards are cross overs; they have a track for a windsurfing sail. The Hyborg 125 may work for your goals. It is bright spot that something like this is in the lineup, and I am stoked that Tony always finds a way to sneak a design in for light air use.

Glad to hear you are interested in the light side. You have got waves so float and ride is an option. I love when there are mellow waves and just enough wind to catch them, Low risk surfing fun! Cheers Mate!

Hyborg 125 - OXZA WIND SPORTS

www.oxzawindsports.com/shop/p/product-2-5c6mb-j8mng-zyt72-ajzcc

Here is my old post about Kalama type
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Kalama-type-for-windfoil?page=1

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..

Henners said..

utcminusfour said..

Henners said..
Also,
anyone tried converting one of those narrow downwind foil boards into a wind foil?
I think years and years ago, there was a board that Jim Drake had a hand in called the Serenity and it was long and narrow and just glided through the water, and it looks like with these wind foiling boards, like the slingshot stuff, all the straps are inboard, so you don't need a huge amount of hiking out so would it be possible to go for a long skinny wind foil or do you loose all that dynamic turning? Anyway, I would love some edumecation on the subject.

I designed and built a board inspired by that trend and it did not work for windfoil. Long and skinny can be a good thing but bevels and rocker are not, they prevent planning. It turned out to be a great beginner wing board.
Kalama type for windfoil | Windsurfing Forums, page 1 - Seabreeze

I could not find the original post, but I went to your pictures and had a look. Was it the "funky dory" board ?

I have been looking at the New Phazer and the starboard takeoff, and they both seem to have a very rounded outline.
Is a rounded outline more important for low wind take off? Currently looking at v2 Phazer 140L 6'2" 30.25" (a little bit more square), a starboard Take off 6'4" 31" 4" 130L in Litetech or the same take off 7'1" 32" 4.2".
The take off is marketed as a SUP board, but the Phazer is only marketed as a wing board .... The Difference in price is about $400, as the starboards is still in the box.
Any advice on pros and cons of a more square shape vs round? I am really into it for light wind playing. Here, as soon as the wind comes u,p the waves follow.

Hi Henners!

Yes, the board I am referring to I named the Funky Dory, sorry I thought I added that post as a hyperlink.

I am no expert. I work designing boats and I am a hobbyist who has designed and built 5 unique windfoil boards and tried a few others. I am learning as I go and drinking from the fire hose because there is a lot to learn so take my input with a grain of salt.

Intuitively the less you force the water to turn the better, so at the moment for windfoil in light air I favor a long narrow outline with straight lines, flat tail rocker and clean crisp edges in the tail. Narrow outline is a tradeoff, you lose uphaul stability and sail carrying leverage in exchange for low drag.

When you are considering cross-over boards especially any that market non foiling SUP or non-foiling wave sailing be very wary of designs with rocker in the tail. This helps the board turn when on the water/waves but really holds back windfoiling take off in marginal conditions. Probably not an issue with the two you mentioned but good to keep in mind.

I always want a board that is easy to uphaul with the front foot in front of the sail and looking at both those boards if you added a sail track forward of the foot strap inserts there will not be much float in front of the mast. Uphauling may not be a priority for you though and with 140 liters of float overall it will be possible to uphaul, but you may have to keep both feet behind the mast. Also, when you see a big range of sizes know that the pictures are of the sexy little one, not the 140l version. It is best to see the beast in person.

While Slingshot has left us behind Tony Logoz hasn't. His new company is building windsurf foiling boards, both for high wind and light. His new Para wing boards are cross overs; they have a track for a windsurfing sail. The Hyborg 125 may work for your goals. It is bright spot that something like this is in the lineup, and I am stoked that Tony always finds a way to sneak a design in for light air use.

Glad to hear you are interested in the light side. You have got waves so float and ride is an option. I love when there are mellow waves and just enough wind to catch them, Low risk surfing fun! Cheers Mate!

Hyborg 125 - OXZA WIND SPORTS

www.oxzawindsports.com/shop/p/product-2-5c6mb-j8mng-zyt72-ajzcc

Here is my old post about Kalama type
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Kalama-type-for-windfoil?page=1

Thank you very much, a tonne of information there.
Looks like there were a lot of changes in board design from previous years, just to highlight Starboard's Takeoff
2023 version was 6'4 31" 130L
2024 7'0 x 26" 115l (largest size) or 6'6" 25" 105L (similar length to 2023 version)
Looks like the trend is going for long and skinny.
I was surprised that your Funky Dory did not work (I'm still going through the thread as the concepts have to sink in more)
Reading your and other board builders' threads gives me great insight into concepts that on the surface seem very simple but boggle my mind very quickly. I find it a little bit like being in a physics class. But I'll work my way through it.