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A problem for (wind)foiling in the US

Created by Paducah Paducah  7 months ago, 11 Jul 2025
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nerdycross
nerdycross

nerdycross

321 posts

1 Aug 2025 3:49pm
Select to expand quote
Paducah said..
Last night, I was trying to help a friend who's looking to upgrade his foil to something a bit more modern for freeride/freerace . His options available in the US are... limited. Basically current inventory predates all the trade mess and there's very little of it. I know that the focus for a lot of buyers has been on the wingfoil side but there's depressingly not much out there.

With several notable manufacturers (Starboard, Slingshot) that accounted for a lot of the market moving to new standards or withdrawing from the market, this has made things very challenging.


It looks like phantom foiling have allso ceased trading now (they were a leading force in PWA) their Web site has gone dark.
Paducah
Paducah

Paducah

2792 posts

1 Aug 2025 9:08pm
Select to expand quote
nerdycross said..

Paducah said..
Last night, I was trying to help a friend who's looking to upgrade his foil to something a bit more modern for freeride/freerace . His options available in the US are... limited. Basically current inventory predates all the trade mess and there's very little of it. I know that the focus for a lot of buyers has been on the wingfoil side but there's depressingly not much out there.

With several notable manufacturers (Starboard, Slingshot) that accounted for a lot of the market moving to new standards or withdrawing from the market, this has made things very challenging.



It looks like phantom foiling have allso ceased trading now (they were a leading force in PWA) their Web site has gone dark.


Still showing up but looks like inventory nil or at blow out prices on a lot of stuff. Do they transition to a by special order shop or something else at this point remains to be seen. They were still updating windfoil wings a few months ago with stuff I'd hoped to have ordered in the future.

www.phantom-foiling.com
nerdycross
nerdycross

nerdycross

321 posts

1 Aug 2025 10:01pm
Select to expand quote
Paducah said..

nerdycross said..


Paducah said..
Last night, I was trying to help a friend who's looking to upgrade his foil to something a bit more modern for freeride/freerace . His options available in the US are... limited. Basically current inventory predates all the trade mess and there's very little of it. I know that the focus for a lot of buyers has been on the wingfoil side but there's depressingly not much out there.

With several notable manufacturers (Starboard, Slingshot) that accounted for a lot of the market moving to new standards or withdrawing from the market, this has made things very challenging.




It looks like phantom foiling have allso ceased trading now (they were a leading force in PWA) their Web site has gone dark.



Still showing up but looks like inventory nil or at blow out prices on a lot of stuff. Do they transition to a by special order shop or something else at this point remains to be seen. They were still updating windfoil wings a few months ago with stuff I'd hoped to have ordered in the future.

www.phantom-foiling.com


Yeah I was about to order kit but as you said the web site there but can't order from it .
Paducah
Paducah

Paducah

2792 posts

1 Aug 2025 11:43pm
Select to expand quote
nerdycross said..

Paducah said..


nerdycross said..



Paducah said..
Last night, I was trying to help a friend who's looking to upgrade his foil to something a bit more modern for freeride/freerace . His options available in the US are... limited. Basically current inventory predates all the trade mess and there's very little of it. I know that the focus for a lot of buyers has been on the wingfoil side but there's depressingly not much out there.

With several notable manufacturers (Starboard, Slingshot) that accounted for a lot of the market moving to new standards or withdrawing from the market, this has made things very challenging.





It looks like phantom foiling have allso ceased trading now (they were a leading force in PWA) their Web site has gone dark.




Still showing up but looks like inventory nil or at blow out prices on a lot of stuff. Do they transition to a by special order shop or something else at this point remains to be seen. They were still updating windfoil wings a few months ago with stuff I'd hoped to have ordered in the future.

www.phantom-foiling.com



Yeah I was about to order kit but as you said the web site there but can't order from it .


Sorry about that. hadn't ventured that far into the process since anything I'd want is gone (and can't afford it at the moment anyway)
Gwarn
Gwarn

Gwarn

245 posts

2 Aug 2025 2:06am
www.facebook.com/Phantomfoiling/posts/pfbid038ERdXYEtdsDoDM71aQmHqov3H33dPwDpUJLdeC7BoJ589aCcMSq2cZaU8mWTiSwYl

I feel that you're going to see more brands also pull out of the PWA....
bel29
bel29

bel29

395 posts

2 Aug 2025 10:44pm
Select to expand quote
nerdycross said..

Paducah said..


nerdycross said..



Paducah said..
Last night, I was trying to help a friend who's looking to upgrade his foil to something a bit more modern for freeride/freerace . His options available in the US are... limited. Basically current inventory predates all the trade mess and there's very little of it. I know that the focus for a lot of buyers has been on the wingfoil side but there's depressingly not much out there.

With several notable manufacturers (Starboard, Slingshot) that accounted for a lot of the market moving to new standards or withdrawing from the market, this has made things very challenging.





It looks like phantom foiling have allso ceased trading now (they were a leading force in PWA) their Web site has gone dark.




Still showing up but looks like inventory nil or at blow out prices on a lot of stuff. Do they transition to a by special order shop or something else at this point remains to be seen. They were still updating windfoil wings a few months ago with stuff I'd hoped to have ordered in the future.

www.phantom-foiling.com



Yeah I was about to order kit but as you said the web site there but can't order from it .


What are you trying to get? All their Infinite/Spark gear has been produced in very limited quantities and if you hadn't ordered early it will be too late now.
Either way, I would recommend you get in touch with them before processing an order for shipping to the US (or any other place outside the EU). They have not "gone dark".
jdfoils
jdfoils

jdfoils

435 posts

3 Aug 2025 12:12am
Select to expand quote
Gwarn said..
www.facebook.com/Phantomfoiling/posts/pfbid038ERdXYEtdsDoDM71aQmHqov3H33dPwDpUJLdeC7BoJ589aCcMSq2cZaU8mWTiSwYl

I feel that you're going to see more brands also pull out of the PWA....


What a crock of BS...Withdrawing must be an easy decision after you have been suspended for non-payment of fees for 3 years.
miamiwindsurfe
miamiwindsurfe

miamiwindsurfe

190 posts

5 Aug 2025 10:22pm
Select to expand quote
bel29 said..



miamiwindsurfe said..



I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.



also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)


?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...
utcminusfour
utcminusfour

utcminusfour

778 posts

6 Aug 2025 3:38am
Select to expand quote
miamiwindsurfe said..

bel29 said..





miamiwindsurfe said..




I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.




also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)



?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...


Pretty impressive Sergio! I'd love to more about your board and foils!
miamiwindsurfe
miamiwindsurfe

miamiwindsurfe

190 posts

6 Aug 2025 4:47am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..

miamiwindsurfe said..


bel29 said..







miamiwindsurfe said..





I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.





also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)




?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...



Pretty impressive Sergio! I'd love to more about your board and foils!

On YouTube someone asked the same and I provided all the answers. I think there a way to shave off another 1 kn of the wind speed with better foil, KT Nomad in particular with high chamber looks interesting, I wish I could borrow one in 800-900 cm2
utcminusfour
utcminusfour

utcminusfour

778 posts

6 Aug 2025 7:55am
Select to expand quote
miamiwindsurfe said..

utcminusfour said..


miamiwindsurfe said..



bel29 said..









miamiwindsurfe said..






I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.






also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)





?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...




Pretty impressive Sergio! I'd love to more about your board and foils!


On YouTube someone asked the same and I provided all the answers. I think there a way to shave off another 1 kn of the wind speed with better foil, KT Nomad in particular with high chamber looks interesting, I wish I could borrow one in 800-900 cm2


That's me mate, Thanks!
azymuth
azymuth

azymuth

WA

2166 posts

6 Aug 2025 8:34am
Select to expand quote
miamiwindsurfe said..


bel29 said..







miamiwindsurfe said..





I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.





also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)




?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...



Nice vid - cruisey gliding

I wonder how rider weight correlates to sail area required to fly in light wind
I'm guessing to get going in 10 knots on a big board similar to your board in the video

60 kgs 4.4m
70 kgs 4.7m
80 kgs 5.5m
???

I would need 5.5
miamiwindsurfe
miamiwindsurfe

miamiwindsurfe

190 posts

6 Aug 2025 10:39am
Select to expand quote
azymuth said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



bel29 said..









miamiwindsurfe said..






I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.






also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)





?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...




Nice vid - cruisey gliding

I wonder how rider weight correlates to sail area required to fly in light wind
I'm guessing to get going in 10 knots on a big board similar to your board in the video

60 kgs 4.4m
70 kgs 4.7m
80 kgs 5.5m
???

I would need 5.5


I think in ultra light winds foil size/ shape plays bigger part, sail not as much, extra 100-200 cm2 should compensate for the weight difference . I have being testing new foils that one size too small in light winds, and that's my latest conclusions after couple of months of testing diff combos.
Eugenius 2.0
Eugenius 2.0

Eugenius 2.0

42 posts

6 Aug 2025 2:59pm
Select to expand quote
miamiwindsurfe said..

azymuth said..


miamiwindsurfe said..




bel29 said..











miamiwindsurfe said..







I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.







also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)






?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...





Nice vid - cruisey gliding

I wonder how rider weight correlates to sail area required to fly in light wind
I'm guessing to get going in 10 knots on a big board similar to your board in the video

60 kgs 4.4m
70 kgs 4.7m
80 kgs 5.5m
???

I would need 5.5



I think in ultra light winds foil size/ shape plays bigger part, sail not as much, extra 100-200 cm2 should compensate for the weight difference . I have being testing new foils that one size too small in light winds, and that's my latest conclusions after couple of months of testing diff combos.


I totally agree with you.
utcminusfour
utcminusfour

utcminusfour

778 posts

11 Aug 2025 3:12am
Select to expand quote
miamiwindsurfe said..

utcminusfour said..


miamiwindsurfe said..



bel29 said..









miamiwindsurfe said..






I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.






also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)





?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...




Pretty impressive Sergio! I'd love to more about your board and foils!


On YouTube someone asked the same and I provided all the answers. I think there a way to shave off another 1 kn of the wind speed with better foil, KT Nomad in particular with high chamber looks interesting, I wish I could borrow one in 800-900 cm2


I have interest in the cambered foils too, sounds like they have great low-end potential. Thanks for sharing your board info on Youtube! Could maybe post a pic of your boards bottom? I would also be super curious how far forward from the tail your foil is and how far forward the sail track is from the foil. Thanks for any info you can share, you are on the leading edge!
utcminusfour
utcminusfour

utcminusfour

778 posts

11 Aug 2025 3:36am
Select to expand quote
azymuth said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



bel29 said..









miamiwindsurfe said..






I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.






also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)





?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...




Nice vid - cruisey gliding

I wonder how rider weight correlates to sail area required to fly in light wind
I'm guessing to get going in 10 knots on a big board similar to your board in the video

60 kgs 4.4m
70 kgs 4.7m
80 kgs 5.5m
???

I would need 5.5


JJ, I'm 100+kg and I bet I can fly at 10kts true with a 5.2. I can float and ride (float and fly???) in that for sure maybe even less. It's pumping the big front wing that's creating the magic more than the sail. That said, the sails cut matters a lot. Most wave sails are too flat and twisty for light air foiling, hence the shift towards freestyle sails for many. I am dreaming of sails that are tough enough for the surf but shaped tall, tight and perky.
utcminusfour
utcminusfour

utcminusfour

778 posts

11 Aug 2025 3:36am
Select to expand quote
azymuth said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



bel29 said..









miamiwindsurfe said..






I think it's a misunderstanding, my current set, 710cm2, 910 cm2 front wings, 70-75cm fuselages, 2 sails 3.1 and 4.4 m2 covers 7-30 kn. With long fuselages and 8.0 m2 you might take off in 5.5 kn, and front wing could be smaller. But I decided to not to chase 5-6 kn of wind anymore, on small gear too physical and unstable.






also keen to see 4.4 in 7kn :)





?si=e7cVZMOSXXs3dEMI
Here we go, I was using 2 year old foil there, new one has better glide/ low end btw. Pls ignore 'king' label, Alex gets a bit overboard with things...




Nice vid - cruisey gliding

I wonder how rider weight correlates to sail area required to fly in light wind
I'm guessing to get going in 10 knots on a big board similar to your board in the video

60 kgs 4.4m
70 kgs 4.7m
80 kgs 5.5m
???

I would need 5.5


JJ, I'm 100+kg and I bet I can fly at 10kts true with a 5.2. I can float and ride (float and fly???) in that for sure maybe even less. It's pumping the big front wing that's creating the magic more than the sail. That said, the sails cut matters a lot. Most wave sails are too flat and twisty for light air foiling, hence the shift towards freestyle sails for many. I am dreaming of sails that are tough enough for the surf but shaped tall, tight and perky.
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