Of...

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excav8ter said..

thedoor said..

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..

excav8ter said..

thedoor said..
One of the reasons I switched from the levi 150 to the Shredsled was the difficulty I had controlling the levi in swell. I need my front foot closer to the mast and more inboard to be able to use enough front foot force to push the board down the face of larger swell, but as a lightwind board you cannot beat the levi.

The biggest swell I've been in has been only about 6 feet max. With my size and weight I've been able to manage keeping the nose down fairly well. Definitely have to lean into it. Do you think it would be worth it to drop to a Levitator 150 and just see how I handle that? Maybe I'd end up using the 150 for everything.....

Yeah my guess is that you are ready to downsize and will probably use the levi for everything. Bigger dudes can hold down more foil with their front strap further from the mast, so you prob will be good in swell. And there is not reason why you cannot use the Levi 150 for a wingboard if you want to dabble. If you did get better at winging and wanted to pursue it more you could add a wingboard in the 120L range. So in some ways the levi 150 might be the best one board quiver for now as you are mostly sailfoilling.

I am kind of hoping that's the case. I may still add the Slingshot Shred Sled and sell the KT wing drifter 6'x30" 130L. We'll see how the Levi 150 treats me first. I think I'm going to pick up a 3.0 Sailworks Revolution for high wind windfoiling too. Then I'd have the gamut covered with 3.0 and 3.8 Sailworks Revolution, 4.8 Duotone Super session, 6.0, 7.0 and 8.2 Sailworks Flyers.

My hope was that wing foiling would be what I'd do above 20 mph, but so far I haven't had the time or conditions to put much time into it. And to be truthful, I like the feeling of windfoiling more than wingfoiling.

I keep forgetting you have that wing drifter. Let us know how the levi 150 works out

I just looked a bit more at the Wizard 130.... I didn't realize that it has footstrap inserts for BOTH windfoiling and wingfoiling. That's tempting too....

I think that the 130 doesn't have the straps for wing foiling. Do you really want to move the straps around each time you switch wing to wind?

You can wing the W130 but it means moving the foil ALL the way forward in the tracks and the wind foiling hole locations for the foot straps don't work they are too far back (I tried).

As ZeroVix mentioned moving straps around it a royal pain in the arse, its 100% better to have a dedicated wind foil board and a dedicated wing foil board.

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CoreAS said..
You can wing the W130 but it means moving the foil ALL the way forward in the tracks and the wind foiling hole locations for the foot straps don't work they are too far back (I tried).

As ZeroVix mentioned moving straps around it a royal pain in the arse, its 100% better to have a dedicated wind foil board and a dedicated wing foil board.

Having to move the foil mast forward is not a big deal to me, because I need to remove it completely to install it on my current wingfoil board. And I'd most likely ride strapless on the Wizard so moving straps isn't too big of a deal for me either

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excav8ter said..

Grantmac said..
I too tried winging and for now prefer windfoiling, I missed the efficient feeling and my balance isn't amazing. Plus wing gear doesn't seem to be durable at all.
That said I can see winging once those issues are sorted out.

I bought my wingfoil board and two Slingwing V2's (6.4 and 4.4) because I thought I'd use them in heavier wind, but so far my wingfoiling has been in wind ranging from 25 to 40. Not the easiest to learn in. My balance is pretty good, bit there's just something about having the mast and boom to hold and leverage against.

+20kt days is when winging has appeal to me. Likely when I get another it will be in the 4m range. My last ones were V1 Wasp 5/6m.
Also I'll want some sort of rigid boom and a tight canopy.

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Grantmac said..

excav8ter said..

Grantmac said..
I too tried winging and for now prefer windfoiling, I missed the efficient feeling and my balance isn't amazing. Plus wing gear doesn't seem to be durable at all.
That said I can see winging once those issues are sorted out.

I bought my wingfoil board and two Slingwing V2's (6.4 and 4.4) because I thought I'd use them in heavier wind, but so far my wingfoiling has been in wind ranging from 25 to 40. Not the easiest to learn in. My balance is pretty good, bit there's just something about having the mast and boom to hold and leverage against.

+20kt days is when winging has appeal to me. Likely when I get another it will be in the 4m range. My last ones were V1 Wasp 5/6m.
Also I'll want some sort of rigid boom and a tight canopy.

I thought the same thing. But after several sessions in wind from 25-40mph, I find myself wanting to windfoil even more. I have the Slingshot 6.4 and 4.4 V2. find that it takes more wind for me to get on foil with the 6.4 than it does with a 6.0 sq. m. sail. The wing has much more range, but also becomes quite a handful gusty conditions.

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excav8ter said..

Grantmac said..

excav8ter said..

Grantmac said..
I too tried winging and for now prefer windfoiling, I missed the efficient feeling and my balance isn't amazing. Plus wing gear doesn't seem to be durable at all.
That said I can see winging once those issues are sorted out.

I bought my wingfoil board and two Slingwing V2's (6.4 and 4.4) because I thought I'd use them in heavier wind, but so far my wingfoiling has been in wind ranging from 25 to 40. Not the easiest to learn in. My balance is pretty good, bit there's just something about having the mast and boom to hold and leverage against.

+20kt days is when winging has appeal to me. Likely when I get another it will be in the 4m range. My last ones were V1 Wasp 5/6m.
Also I'll want some sort of rigid boom and a tight canopy.

I thought the same thing. But after several sessions in wind from 25-40mph, I find myself wanting to windfoil even more. I have the Slingshot 6.4 and 4.4 V2. find that it takes more wind for me to get on foil with the 6.4 than it does with a 6.0 sq. m. sail. The wing has much more range, but also becomes quite a handful gusty conditions.

Efficiency with the wing seems to be far more dependant on rider skill than it is with windfoiling, although maybe I've just been windfoiling long enough to do it without much thought?

My 5m wasp was very manageable in 25kts, my 5m sails not so much. Low end was similar. I just didn't like the inefficiency of the wing, lots of load for little VMG.

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Grantmac said..


Efficiency with the wing seems to be far more dependant on rider skill than it is with windfoiling, although maybe I've just been windfoiling long enough to do it without much thought?

My 5m wasp was very manageable in 25kts, my 5m sails not so much. Low end was similar. I just didn't like the inefficiency of the wing, lots of load for little VMG.

Is it the wing or the foil that causes worse VMG? Are people out there with long fused wingfoils heading high upwind/deep downwind?

Fuselage length isn't required for wing. In my case the foil I used for winging was actually more efficient than the one I use for windfoiling, it was the wing that wasn't efficient. I suppose newer ones are a bit better but still nothing on even a wave sail.

The good wingers around San Francisco seem to all be on hi aspect 800-1000 foils. Similar to windfoil course race foils.
Can't tell you VMG because I'm only observing from shore.

Most things that claim to do everything excel at nothing.

What do you think is the lightest wind that the Shred Sled can be used in for windfoiling, without tons of pumping? Assuming I use the i99 or i84 front wing.

A general comment about pitch control.

Yes, I believe it is easier to control pitch with a wing (and also for kitefoiling), because ONLY your body/feet control the pitch, and nothing else.

Pitch control with windfoiling depends on body/feet AND--even more so--on the sail mast base pressure, which is very sensitive to sheet and boom downforce. With the sail in the picture, it is much harder to control pitch until you figure it out and develop the muscle memory for it.

You never see wingers or kiters out there porpoising. You always see windfoilers out there porpoising. After 250 sessions over 4 years, I STILL porpoise if the wind is variable.

Excav8ter,
I can't say what the lightest wind possible would be because that is not my explicit goal. I have other toys for sub 10 knots like boats!. I can honestly say that at 220 lbs using the moses 1100 and a 4.5m^2 wave sail I can pump free in flat water and 12 knots true perhaps even 10 knots but it is hard to confirm. It is not tons of pumping either. It's two small quick sail pumps and then I start to combine that with leg pumps for less than 3 more reps. Once in the air I usually stop pumping and focus on smooth flow over the sail but if the apparent wind is low it is foil pumping for a couple reps that gets things moving. The act of just foil pumping automatically pumps the sail in a mellow way that keeps flow attached. Foil pumping in the air is pretty easy and not as exhausting as classic windsurf pumping. The tail kick mod I did made a noticeable difference on the low wind take off as well. I have a board similar to the Levitator and I need more sail (5.7) to make it happen in 12 knots. That said it is the foil and the pumping technique more than the board. The best way to learn to foil pump is behind a boat, don't let go of the rope just try and make it go slack without riding the wake.

I gotta say I would not have believed this was possible when I started out a few years ago. Back then I was on a 6.5, needed 15 knots and was overpowered for my taste as soon as it flew.
I am ASTOUNDED and THRILLED with the results.
With the 4.5, I can enjoy it from 12-20 knots, thats a massive range for windsurfing.

Now am I the fastest,? HELL NO but I am having a blast and have no interest in hiting the water at 30+ knots from 2 feet in the air! Good light air VMG coupled with great Surfing and bursts of speed to low twenties is enough for my old ass!

I am not saying the Sled is the end all be all. If it was I would not be modifying it and there will likely be more changes I try now that the seal has been broken. In fact I would not recomend the Sled for windsurf foiling with out the mod to the tail. I am just saying that most folks do not see the benefits that the type offers for Windsurf foiling. And that is a bummer for the sport as a whole cause here we go again makeing the boards so small that normal people can't use them.

Segler,
Thanks for emphasizing the sails effect on pitch! It is essential knowledge to become proficient at windsurf foiling. It is also only ONE of the reasons I keep yammering on about moving the sail closer to the foil.

I realize these comments are more about sailing style, the choice of front wing and technique than Excav8ter's question about the board but they are key to light air foiling without huge sails. There are details of the Sled that pair nicely with the big wing approach.

It is my hope with all this posting that someday I can get some gear that I don't have to order custom, make or edit myself. I also want to make others aware of a style that gets less attention than it should because it is really fun and user friendly. Thanks for listening.

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utcminusfour said..
Excav8ter,
I can't say what the lightest wind possible would be because that is not my explicit goal. I have other toys for sub 10 knots like boats!. I can honestly say that at 220 lbs using the moses 1100 and a 4.5m^2 wave sail I can pump free in flat water and 12 knots true perhaps even 10 knots but it is hard to confirm. It is not tons of pumping either. It's two small quick sail pumps and then I start to combine that with leg pumps for less than 3 more reps. Once in the air I usually stop pumping and focus on smooth flow over the sail but if the apparent wind is low it is foil pumping for a couple reps that gets things moving. The act of just foil pumping automatically pumps the sail in a mellow way that keeps flow attached. Foil pumping in the air is pretty easy and not as exhausting as classic windsurf pumping. The tail kick mod I did made a noticeable difference on the low wind take off as well. I have a board similar to the Levitator and I need more sail (5.7) to make it happen in 12 knots. That said it is the foil and the pumping technique more than the board. The best way to learn to foil pump is behind a boat, don't let go of the rope just try and make it go slack without riding the wake.

I gotta say I would not have believed this was possible when I started out a few years ago. Back then I was on a 6.5, needed 15 knots and was overpowered for my taste as soon as it flew.
I am ASTOUNDED and THRILLED with the results.
With the 4.5, I can enjoy it from 12-20 knots, thats a massive range for windsurfing.

Now am I the fastest,? HELL NO but I am having a blast and have no interest in hiting the water at 30+ knots from 2 feet in the air! Good light air VMG coupled with great Surfing and bursts of speed to low twenties is enough for my old ass!

I am not saying the Sled is the end all be all. If it was I would not be modifying it and there will likely be more changes I try now that the seal has been broken. In fact I would not recomend the Sled for windsurf foiling with out the mod to the tail. I am just saying that most folks do not see the benefits that the type offers for Windsurf foiling. And that is a bummer for the sport as a whole cause here we go again makeing the boards so small that normal people can't use them.

Segler,
Thanks for emphasizing the sails effect on pitch! It is essential knowledge to become proficient at windsurf foiling. It is also only ONE of the reasons I keep yammering on about moving the sail closer to the foil.

I realize these comments are more about sailing style, the choice of front wing and technique than Excav8ter's question about the board but they are key to light air foiling without huge sails. There are details of the Sled that pair nicely with the big wing approach.

It is my hope with all this posting that someday I can get some gear that I don't have to order custom, make or edit myself. I also want to make others aware of a style that gets less attention than it should because it is really fun and user friendly. Thanks for listening.

I don't intend to make the Shred Sled my lightwind board, if I even buy it. I was just curious of what to possibly expect out of it. The Levitator 150 I have coming will be my Lightwind board, and possibly ALL wind board. I am definitely not into speed. Just cruising, carving and trying to ride some waves. I use bigger sails though. It seems I don't drop to my 4.8 until it's 18mph or higher.

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utcminusfour said..
Excav8ter,
I can't say what the lightest wind possible would be because that is not my explicit goal. I have other toys for sub 10 knots like boats!. I can honestly say that at 220 lbs using the moses 1100 and a 4.5m^2 wave sail I can pump free in flat water and 12 knots true perhaps even 10 knots but it is hard to confirm. It is not tons of pumping either. It's two small quick sail pumps and then I start to combine that with leg pumps for less than 3 more reps. Once in the air I usually stop pumping and focus on smooth flow over the sail but if the apparent wind is low it is foil pumping for a couple reps that gets things moving. The act of just foil pumping automatically pumps the sail in a mellow way that keeps flow attached. Foil pumping in the air is pretty easy and not as exhausting as classic windsurf pumping. The tail kick mod I did made a noticeable difference on the low wind take off as well. I have a board similar to the Levitator and I need more sail (5.7) to make it happen in 12 knots. That said it is the foil and the pumping technique more than the board. The best way to learn to foil pump is behind a boat, don't let go of the rope just try and make it go slack without riding the wake.

I gotta say I would not have believed this was possible when I started out a few years ago. Back then I was on a 6.5, needed 15 knots and was overpowered for my taste as soon as it flew.
I am ASTOUNDED and THRILLED with the results.
With the 4.5, I can enjoy it from 12-20 knots, thats a massive range for windsurfing.

Now am I the fastest,? HELL NO but I am having a blast and have no interest in hiting the water at 30+ knots from 2 feet in the air! Good light air VMG coupled with great Surfing and bursts of speed to low twenties is enough for my old ass!

I am not saying the Sled is the end all be all. If it was I would not be modifying it and there will likely be more changes I try now that the seal has been broken. In fact I would not recomend the Sled for windsurf foiling with out the mod to the tail. I am just saying that most folks do not see the benefits that the type offers for Windsurf foiling. And that is a bummer for the sport as a whole cause here we go again makeing the boards so small that normal people can't use them.

Segler,
Thanks for emphasizing the sails effect on pitch! It is essential knowledge to become proficient at windsurf foiling. It is also only ONE of the reasons I keep yammering on about moving the sail closer to the foil.

I realize these comments are more about sailing style, the choice of front wing and technique than Excav8ter's question about the board but they are key to light air foiling without huge sails. There are details of the Sled that pair nicely with the big wing approach.

It is my hope with all this posting that someday I can get some gear that I don't have to order custom, make or edit myself. I also want to make others aware of a style that gets less attention than it should because it is really fun and user friendly. Thanks for listening.

+1 on getting the mast foot as close to the foil mast as possible having a very positive effect on pitch stability when combined with surfy foils. Racefoils use fuselage length to get this stability but that greatly reduces agility.

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Grantmac said..

utcminusfour said..
Excav8ter,
I can't say what the lightest wind possible would be because that is not my explicit goal. I have other toys for sub 10 knots like boats!. I can honestly say that at 220 lbs using the moses 1100 and a 4.5m^2 wave sail I can pump free in flat water and 12 knots true perhaps even 10 knots but it is hard to confirm. It is not tons of pumping either. It's two small quick sail pumps and then I start to combine that with leg pumps for less than 3 more reps. Once in the air I usually stop pumping and focus on smooth flow over the sail but if the apparent wind is low it is foil pumping for a couple reps that gets things moving. The act of just foil pumping automatically pumps the sail in a mellow way that keeps flow attached. Foil pumping in the air is pretty easy and not as exhausting as classic windsurf pumping. The tail kick mod I did made a noticeable difference on the low wind take off as well. I have a board similar to the Levitator and I need more sail (5.7) to make it happen in 12 knots. That said it is the foil and the pumping technique more than the board. The best way to learn to foil pump is behind a boat, don't let go of the rope just try and make it go slack without riding the wake.

I gotta say I would not have believed this was possible when I started out a few years ago. Back then I was on a 6.5, needed 15 knots and was overpowered for my taste as soon as it flew.
I am ASTOUNDED and THRILLED with the results.
With the 4.5, I can enjoy it from 12-20 knots, thats a massive range for windsurfing.

Now am I the fastest,? HELL NO but I am having a blast and have no interest in hiting the water at 30+ knots from 2 feet in the air! Good light air VMG coupled with great Surfing and bursts of speed to low twenties is enough for my old ass!

I am not saying the Sled is the end all be all. If it was I would not be modifying it and there will likely be more changes I try now that the seal has been broken. In fact I would not recomend the Sled for windsurf foiling with out the mod to the tail. I am just saying that most folks do not see the benefits that the type offers for Windsurf foiling. And that is a bummer for the sport as a whole cause here we go again makeing the boards so small that normal people can't use them.

Segler,
Thanks for emphasizing the sails effect on pitch! It is essential knowledge to become proficient at windsurf foiling. It is also only ONE of the reasons I keep yammering on about moving the sail closer to the foil.

I realize these comments are more about sailing style, the choice of front wing and technique than Excav8ter's question about the board but they are key to light air foiling without huge sails. There are details of the Sled that pair nicely with the big wing approach.

It is my hope with all this posting that someday I can get some gear that I don't have to order custom, make or edit myself. I also want to make others aware of a style that gets less attention than it should because it is really fun and user friendly. Thanks for listening.

+1 on getting the mast foot as close to the foil mast as possible having a very positive effect on pitch stability when combined with surfy foils. Racefoils use fuselage length to get this stability but that greatly reduces agility.

Wyatt Miller says 29" from the front of the foil mast to the universal joint is how you want to have it set up. I sail my Levitator in the neighborhood of 42" am I way wrong with that? The 29" measurement makes me a bit nervous for some reason.

excav8ter I think the length from front of foil mast to UJ depends on a number of things.
Differing fuse lengths may cause that distance to change. The windfoiling (specific - 80cm+) fuses I have move the front foil forwards a fair bit in relation to the front of the foil mast. Maybe 50mm compared to the 'surf' fuses (~65cm). So the fuse could change that 29" sweet spot distance.
If you're carrying a really small sail, the CoE on it will be (relatively speaking) further forwards in the sail, so you might want to have the sail further back in the track. If you have a long boomed big sail, the CoE will be further back and this may change the whole balance of the foil and sail, so you may want to have the sail further forwards in the mast track?

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martyj4 said..
excav8ter I think the length from front of foil mast to UJ depends on a number of things.
Differing fuse lengths may cause that distance to change. The windfoiling (specific - 80cm+) fuses I have move the front foil forwards a fair bit in relation to the front of the foil mast. Maybe 50mm compared to the 'surf' fuses (~65cm). So the fuse could change that 29" sweet spot distance.
If you're carrying a really small sail, the CoE on it will be (relatively speaking) further forwards in the sail, so you might want to have the sail further back in the track. If you have a long boomed big sail, the CoE will be further back and this may change the whole balance of the foil and sail, so you may want to have the sail further forwards in the mast track?

I guess it really comes down to getting a general idea of setup, and then getting out there and tweaking things.

I only use the Switch fuse for my foiling at this point. I guess, looking back I did have a fair bit of messing around with getting the Levitator set up in a way that felt comfortable for me. The Shred Sled will be no different I'm sure.

Well I tried the Shred Sled again today. Wind was 16-21mph. Air was warm and the water about 64 degrees.
Used my 6.0 Flyer and the i84 front wing set about 2cm forward from the back of the foil tracks. Mast universal joint was basically in the center of the mast track. Went out about and back two times for a total of about a mile. Only got on foil twice for a combined distance of around 75 yards (max). If it came up off the water, it was a quick rise and then drop right back down. I parked the Shred and grabbed my Levitator... same foil, same sail. Immediately popped up on foil and spent the next 3 hours having a ball, flying around cruising on some swell and working on my foil jibes. I know they are different boards altogether, but I didn't think I'd struggle that much. Maybe I'll try again, but my foil time is precious so I hate wasting it.

Move foil forward on sled.
Last 2 times out, 4.5 and 1220 foil in 10-18 winds, very comfy. Gusts of 21 pretty hairy. 73 kg.

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excav8ter said..
Well I tried the Shred Sled again today. Wind was 16-21mph. Air was warm and the water about 64 degrees.
Used my 6.0 Flyer and the i84 front wing set about 2cm forward from the back of the foil tracks. Mast universal joint was basically in the center of the mast track. Went out about and back two times for a total of about a mile. Only got on foil twice for a combined distance of around 75 yards (max). If it came up off the water, it was a quick rise and then drop right back down. I parked the Shred and grabbed my Levitator... same foil, same sail. Immediately popped up on foil and spent the next 3 hours having a ball, flying around cruising on some swell and working on my foil jibes. I know they are different boards altogether, but I didn't think I'd struggle that much. Maybe I'll try again, but my foil time is precious so I hate wasting it.

You will def need a bit more power to get going on the Sled. On the levi I would pump sail and pump foil vertically to get going, bouncing the board onto foil. On the sled it was more weighting the back foot and slowly angling the board onto the foil. If I had to guess I reckon you came up too steeply on the shred and either stalled or breached the foil.

What is your universal to foil mast distance on the levi and where is your front strap on the levi? Did you use the same setting on the sled (my guess is not)?

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excav8ter said..
Well I tried the Shred Sled again today. Wind was 16-21mph. Air was warm and the water about 64 degrees.
Used my 6.0 Flyer and the i84 front wing set about 2cm forward from the back of the foil tracks. Mast universal joint was basically in the center of the mast track. Went out about and back two times for a total of about a mile. Only got on foil twice for a combined distance of around 75 yards (max). If it came up off the water, it was a quick rise and then drop right back down. I parked the Shred and grabbed my Levitator... same foil, same sail. Immediately popped up on foil and spent the next 3 hours having a ball, flying around cruising on some swell and working on my foil jibes. I know they are different boards altogether, but I didn't think I'd struggle that much. Maybe I'll try again, but my foil time is precious so I hate wasting it.

This resonates with what I have been going through with my Tabou Magic Carpet 110 vs. the Patrik F-Race 130. I'm going to focus on learning wingfoiling on the Magic Carpet for a bit. I can use the F-Race for light wind windfoiling, although I'm currently one board over my storage allocation at the beach, so I would prefer to take that board out of my quiver. I'll probably revisit windfoiling on the Magic Carpet again, but like you say, time on water is precious and slogging in conditions where I was flying before is frustrating.

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thedoor said..

excav8ter said..
Well I tried the Shred Sled again today. Wind was 16-21mph. Air was warm and the water about 64 degrees.
Used my 6.0 Flyer and the i84 front wing set about 2cm forward from the back of the foil tracks. Mast universal joint was basically in the center of the mast track. Went out about and back two times for a total of about a mile. Only got on foil twice for a combined distance of around 75 yards (max). If it came up off the water, it was a quick rise and then drop right back down. I parked the Shred and grabbed my Levitator... same foil, same sail. Immediately popped up on foil and spent the next 3 hours having a ball, flying around cruising on some swell and working on my foil jibes. I know they are different boards altogether, but I didn't think I'd struggle that much. Maybe I'll try again, but my foil time is precious so I hate wasting it.

You will def need a bit more power to get going on the Sled. On the levi I would pump sail and pump foil vertically to get going, bouncing the board onto foil. On the sled it was more weighting the back foot and slowly angling the board onto the foil. If I had to guess I reckon you came up too steeply on the shred and either stalled or breached the foil.

What is your universal to foil mast distance on the levi and where is your front strap on the levi? Did you use the same setting on the sled (my guess is not)?

My guess was that I breached a bit too, but it didn't feel that way. I had no straps on the Shred Sled and my distance from foil mast to the UJ was around 33". My UJ to foil mast on the Levitator is around 42". I moved my feet around a bit to see if that was an issue but it made things worse. It seemed like I needed so much more board speed to get it to climb. Maybe I should have had the i99 front wing on?

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excav8ter said..

thedoor said..

excav8ter said..
Well I tried the Shred Sled again today. Wind was 16-21mph. Air was warm and the water about 64 degrees.
Used my 6.0 Flyer and the i84 front wing set about 2cm forward from the back of the foil tracks. Mast universal joint was basically in the center of the mast track. Went out about and back two times for a total of about a mile. Only got on foil twice for a combined distance of around 75 yards (max). If it came up off the water, it was a quick rise and then drop right back down. I parked the Shred and grabbed my Levitator... same foil, same sail. Immediately popped up on foil and spent the next 3 hours having a ball, flying around cruising on some swell and working on my foil jibes. I know they are different boards altogether, but I didn't think I'd struggle that much. Maybe I'll try again, but my foil time is precious so I hate wasting it.

You will def need a bit more power to get going on the Sled. On the levi I would pump sail and pump foil vertically to get going, bouncing the board onto foil. On the sled it was more weighting the back foot and slowly angling the board onto the foil. If I had to guess I reckon you came up too steeply on the shred and either stalled or breached the foil.

What is your universal to foil mast distance on the levi and where is your front strap on the levi? Did you use the same setting on the sled (my guess is not)?

My guess was that I breached a bit too, but it didn't feel that way. I had no straps on the Shred Sled and my distance from foil mast to the UJ was around 33". My UJ to foil mast on the Levitator is around 42". I moved my feet around a bit to see if that was an issue but it made things worse. It seemed like I needed so much more board speed to get it to climb. Maybe I should have had the i99 front wing on?

A low speed breach might just feel like a soft plop back down to the surface. Your front foot on the levi is probably about 20 inches from universal, so for things to be balanced on the sled you will need your front foot much closer to the mast probably about 10 inches.

I would steer clear of the 99 for now and if you ever ollyed a skateboard it will be similar short duration back foot pressure followed by quick front foot pressure. On the levi the Mast foot pressure is helping stabilize the foil's lift but on the sled you will have to use more body weight.

I think you will like the sled if you persevere a bit

PS: the olly is a lot more complicated than what we do but the idea of using the front foot to level the skate board rapidly resonates with me

check 2 min here

The drag of the tail kick WITH OUT A STEP is holding you back. This why I do not recommend this board to most Windsurfers looking to foil it. It is really hard to get enough speed for a small foil to fly before the drag of the board goes up exponentially. Because of the lack of release (no step) the board will not plane efficiently so you need a wing that can fly below planning speeds if you want to ride this hull. I tested this extensively before I opened my mouth. I think a tail kick with a step or in general volume aft of the foil has merit but the way the stock sled is designed it is not for small front wings. I doubt you are breeching; you are likely stalling because you are forcing the foil to fly before it has enough speed. I respectfully disagree with thedoor, try it with the i99. This is not a board that responds to leaning back on a powerfull sail and no pumping, it likes a big wing and foil pumping. Big sails just weight the nose down and there is little volume up front to deal with the extra weight.

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utcminusfour said..
The drag of the tail kick WITH OUT A STEP is holding you back. This why I do not recommend this board to most Windsurfers looking to foil it. It is really hard to get enough speed for a small foil to fly before the drag of the board goes up exponentially. Because of the lack of release (no step) the board will not plane efficiently so you need a wing that can fly below planning speeds if you want to ride this hull. I tested this extensively before I opened my mouth. I think a tail kick with a step or in general volume aft of the foil has merit but the way the stock sled is designed it is not for small front wings. I doubt you are breeching; you are likely stalling because you are forcing the foil to fly before it has enough speed. I respectfully disagree with thedoor, try it with the i99. This is not a board that responds to leaning back on a powerfull sail and no pumping, it likes a big wing and foil pumping. Big sails just weight the nose down and there is little volume up front to deal with the extra weight.

UTC has lots of miles on the SS, so trust his words. I do like the "forcing the foil to fly before it has enough speed" theory better than my stall theory. I rode the sled with 99 mostly (all the way forwards) so it would not hurt to try if you have one handy.

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LeeD said..
Move foil forward on sled.
Last 2 times out, 4.5 and 1220 foil in 10-18 winds, very comfy. Gusts of 21 pretty hairy. 73 kg.

I will try that. Our wind conditions are mostly gusty. For instance, Sunday was 16 to 28 mph. We often see a range where the gusts will be double the low end of the forecast like 10-20mph, 18-38mph which we had a few weeks ago. I imagine a range of wind like that poses an issue when using the Shred Sled....?

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utcminusfour said..
The drag of the tail kick WITH OUT A STEP is holding you back. This why I do not recommend this board to most Windsurfers looking to foil it. It is really hard to get enough speed for a small foil to fly before the drag of the board goes up exponentially. Because of the lack of release (no step) the board will not plane efficiently so you need a wing that can fly below planning speeds if you want to ride this hull. I tested this extensively before I opened my mouth. I think a tail kick with a step or in general volume aft of the foil has merit but the way the stock sled is designed it is not for small front wings. I doubt you are breeching; you are likely stalling because you are forcing the foil to fly before it has enough speed. I respectfully disagree with thedoor, try it with the i99. This is not a board that responds to leaning back on a powerfull sail and no pumping, it likes a big wing and foil pumping. Big sails just weight the nose down and there is little volume up front to deal with the extra weight.

I basically use the i84 for most of my windfoiling, I also have the i99 and i76 (but I'venever used the i76). My most used sail is my 6.0 Flyer, but I need about 12mph minimum with some higher gusts. My pumping ability is not great at this point. I really want to like the Shred Sled, but I feel that I don't have the time and conditions to dedicate to learning how to use it to its fullest extent. I am very comfortable on my huge Levi 160 and have used it in wind from as low as 8mph to as high as 30mph. For a bigger guy like myself I think that's pretty good range. Lake Michigan and Grand Traverse Bay don't often offer us clean conditions. It's often storm fronts that bring us wind, or on the inland lakes it may be a thermal related wind event. Even Grand Traverse Bay (which is really an extension of lake Michigan in my eyes) has some really good thermal winds from the south when Lake Michigan is flat and not blowing at all.

The comment about 29" from sail mast base to leading edge of foil strut is interesting. If you manage to get your gear set up this way, I will guess that you have to stand far forward of your footstraps in order to get any semblance of balance. If you stay back in the footstraps (even if they are forward-most on current boards), you will have to really weight your front foot in order to prevent breaches.

Since I like to have balanced weight on both feet, my sail mast base is 42" for a 6.5 sail. Yes, this makes the pitch more sensitive to sail mast base pressure, and therefore more prone to porpoising. However, you mitigate this with lots of practice, time of foil (TOF), and muscle memory.

Yup, when you introduce a sail attached to the board, it changes the entire physics, compared to wing and kite, which are attached only to the rider, not the board.

If there is a consensus about moving the sail base aft toward the foil mast (to reduce pitch sensitivity--I like this idea) I would expect the board designers to move the footstraps forward to compensate. Are any of them doing this?