I have been for a long time surfing a 6',8" in waves up to and around 6'-8" waves and have struggled badly. So a friend suggested go to a 7' for ease of getting in.
Sounds fair. Not getting any older at 52 but love surfing in waves that size, not keen on going any bigger wave size.
Any suggestions on boards, I'm 5',10" and 84kgs.

Looking at a couple Chilli & CI, maybe a custom.

Also fin systems, plus quad v thruster.

Fire away

Don't bother with a seven. Six inch increments are good so there isn't too much overlap with boards. Even eight.

The secret is not to pin out the outline too much. Keep the same tail width, go a bit wider and a bit thicker. Getting in early makes it easier, you get more waves, and powerful rail carves become better.

Get a custom. I like thrusters over quads in solid waves, but it personal preference really. The gun I am presently getting shaped has five fins actually. I do have several mates who swear by their quads though. And get some vee in the tail. If you love single concaves give up on them. My next bottom is nose concave, into flat in the middle into vee through the tail with a double concave running through the tail. My last two guns were flat into tail vee, and, for the rhino chaser, nose vee to flat to tail vee (the nose vee was quite subtle). One set of my guns has a low entry entry rocker, but continuous rocker without a flat section (not a three stage rocker) for early entry and paddle speed. They work really well. The next two coming have far more pronounce nose rocker.

Historically for me, 7'2" was my gun for that size for many many years (1997-2014) and I have recently stepped it up again as age and fitness have required more foam and length.

I don't believe semi-guns and guns should be bought off the rack.

If the board is to be at the outer limit of your wave range, it is ALWAYS better to be over gunned than under gunned.

Ps: my two boards for 6-8 are 8 footers. Very different designs but they give me confidence and have completely reinvigorated my surfing in these waves. For 8-10' I ride either of two 9'6" boards. I don't delude myself that I need the HP equipment 23 year old hotties ride. And I generally get way more waves than them anyway.

My humble addvise would be to gun up. Go a bit bigger thicker and at least 20 inches wide. plenty of rocker in the nose. Talk in person to the shaper if you can.

Select to expand quote

beastsurf said...
My humble addvise would be to gun up. Go a bit bigger thicker and at least 20 inches wide. plenty of rocker in the nose. Talk in person to the shaper if you can.

I don't completely disagree with the rocker thing - I have boards that do that. But a couple of months ago I surfed with a mate and we swapped boards. I got lots more waves with my long low entry rocker gun. He commented my board paddled heaps better than his, but he wouldn't want to take a late drop because of the low nose rocker. My argument was he needed to take a late drop because of the high nose rocker. I don't blow take offs because of the lack of rocker. I am up early and have a rail set while he is still paddling.

But like I said, it is a horses for courses thing. Lots of different solutions to the same problem and they all work. I like surfing lots of different style of boards. Just don't be scared of low rocker I guess is what I am saying. There are lots of really positive things to be gained from the extra speed of not pushing excess nose rocker. It does seems on the types of waves you are surfing.

Like I said, I have two different styles of guns for different feelings and waves.

Great topic and feedback!

Drip , how do you go with taking the late drop on sucky faces with all that length? Also have you ever noticed getting clipped by the foamball with extra board behind ur back foot? Just a thought mate

Personally I like to foam up , but keep my length shorter than discussed in this thread . I prefer to have all the foam and "meat" in my board under my chest for paddling , then pull the tail in a little with nice sharp rails .

IMHO - as you dont plan to surf waves bigger than eight feet , dont go the extra length just put extra foam into another 6'8?

Select to expand quote

thedrip said..

I don't completely disagree with the rocker thing - I have boards that do that. But a couple of months ago I surfed with a mate and we swapped boards. I got lots more waves with my long low entry rocker gun. He commented my board paddled heaps better than his, but he wouldn't want to take a late drop because of the low nose rocker. My argument was he needed to take a late drop because of the high nose rocker. I don't blow take offs because of the lack of rocker. I am up early and have a rail set while he is still paddling.

Do you compensate with more tail rocker? Curious.

I'm a bit heavier than you and use a 7'0 x 21 x 3 CI Black Beauty for the 6-8 foot range...nice amount of nose rocker and tail lift without being a banana...paddles like a dream and goes like a rocket...pretty much anything from CI you can order as custom just go see your local dealer....

...But like the Drip I like lotsa paddle power so I'm working on a new 9'2 probably not for anything under the 8ft days though..I'm not a sit under the lip take two strokes and go guy...I prefer to get in as early as possible and make the channel...where the foam is placed is probably just as important as how much there is in the 6-8ft range

A longer lower entry rocker will give you more paddle power and you can end up with the same ratio of nose lift to overall rocker as if you increase teh rocker closer to teh front...if you get my drift

Select to expand quote

Tux said...
A longer lower entry rocker will give you more paddle power and you can end up with the same ratio of nose lift to overall rocker as if you increase teh rocker closer to teh front...if you get my drift

What he said. As far as late drops go,the spiny is a I have set a rail way earlier and avoid pearling with the extra length because of it. My second wave on my eight footer was a barrel where I had to adjust my line in the barrel to avoid spearing into someone paddling out. That's sold me absolutely on the extra lengths positives with very few negatives. Shorter boards necessitate taking off under the lip which is what I want avoid. The eight footer went exceptionally well in the barrel up at Gnaraloo and I reckon that is a good testing ground for any board and barrel riding.

My rockers are continuous, and like Tux said, ultimately there tends to be a lot more rocker than expected when just looking at the last foot or so of nose and tail rocker. The philosophy of it is based on Al Byrne's ideas - where Oggie did his shaping apprenticeship - and, let's face it, Al Byrne could certainly shape an exceptional gun.

I'm not saying it is everything for everyone, some people like the late under lip take off, but older, heavier surfers tend not to be as good at that as 25 year old hotties. It does require an adjustment in the line up though. Sit further out, decide early and get that extra paddling speed working for you.

Since I changed my board 18 months ago I have been surfing comfortably and confidently in the biggest waves I have been comfortable and confident in in the last ten years. Things I had thought had passed me by I am now hungry and hunting for.

At the very least, ignoring all my other design comments, I highly recommended at least a six inch step up. We all know a 5'10" in the right hands can handle 20' waves, but that's not me. My favourite all time board for surfing big waves is my 6' tow board, but I will be buggered if I am attempting to paddle that into solid waves.

Foam is your friend when you are stepping up to your outer wave limit. Don't be driven by fashion and fads, but by tried and tested designs. That is one of the reasons I go to shapers with grey hair. They have done thousands and made their mistakes and experiments. No offence meant Al Bean, Mark Ogram or Tom Hoye.

Oh, and like I said before, simply lengthening an outline pins out the tail without necessarily pulling in the width much. I also move my wife point a little further forward of center. Once again, more paddle power.

If you live in the SW I am happy to lend you a board or two to try.

The desert storm in this range is the type of board I am talking about.

www.webstersurfboards.com.au/guns/

Select to expand quote

thedrip said..
Oh, and like I said before, simply lengthening an outline pins out the tail without necessarily pulling in the width much. I also move my wife point a little further forward of center. Once again, more paddle power.

Select to expand quote

DARTH said...

thedrip said..
Oh, and like I said before, simply lengthening an outline pins out the tail without necessarily pulling in the width much. I also move my wife point a little further forward of center. Once again, more paddle power.

Sometimes she doesn't quite get in the right spot and needs some directions.

Select to expand quote

thedrip said..

DARTH said...

thedrip said..
Oh, and like I said before, simply lengthening an outline pins out the tail without necessarily pulling in the width much. I also move my wife point a little further forward of center. Once again, more paddle power.

Sometimes she doesn't quite get in the right spot and needs some directions.

Best typo I've seen in ages lol, I don't get out much

Wow thanks guys, some great info. Keep it coming. Have over half of the funds in the fun account
On length, I have too keep at 7'

Select to expand quote

thedrip said..
If you live in the SW I am happy to lend you a board or two to try.

Really appreciate the offer but up in Perf do travel south often tho.

Select to expand quote

roodney said...

thedrip said..
If you live in the SW I am happy to lend you a board or two to try.

Really appreciate the offer but up in Perf do travel south often tho.

In that case, don't be shy.

7'x20"x3" and consider a small swallow instead of a pin. I am in a pin phase at the moment, but I have had some great 7' semi-guns with two inch swallow blocks. Most of my 7'2" have had tail widths around 13 3/4. I have been down to 13 and 12 3/4 and that is completely unnecessary and guns them out too much. A board that size for waves that size should still be able to be hooked up in the pocket for a big power hack if you feel good. It shouldn't just be a survival run for the channel.

My noses for most of my boards around that size were about 11. You could certainly go wider to add more paddle power.

I am also a big fan of fairly boxy rails as they are more forgiving on late drops. You do lose some sensitivity at times and some people hate that, but, for most people, sensitivity is about feel, without providing any surfing benefits. Me? I would rather not catch rail and lose a little sensitivity in high line speed runs. They still work really well in barrels (don't tell me Peterson, Thomson, bartholomew couldn't ride barrels wih the best of them). I'm not talking about really old school box, but just a bit more than the rails of a high performance shortboard.

I love guns and semi-guns. More people should ride them. Them again, if they did, I would get less waves.

Changed my mind. Give it up. A good 6'2" will do anything. Just but whatever Fanning is surfing.

Tux's recommendation of 21 is a good one too. My last 7' board was 21 1/2, the one previous to that 20', prior to that 19 1/4, prior to that 19 3/4.

Do not be shy of foam and go to a reputable gun shaper, not someone who does lots of flick flick HP shorties for small reefs and beaches aimed at 25 year old light weights.

Great thread. Gotta put my two cents worth in. I am also re visiting larger waves (not massive) and I got a bit confused when I saw people riding smaller and smaller boards in bigger and bigger waves.
Basically old school common knowledge that I knew was, smaller stumpier sticks in smaller waves and longer sleeker shooters in big stuff. Volume? that's the left knob on ya car stereo.
Then some lunatic paddles into a 20 foot pit on a 5'11".
Looking at the Webster site was a clearer picture, with fishes, shorties, stepups, and guns. There is a shorter stepup model which is designed for larger surf but they still dont rate it for over 8 foot. The 20 footer on a 5'11'' thing is still pushing it a tad, and the surfer performing said act doesn't have an office tan.
I have had success riding a 6'0" in 6-8 foot which I thought was never going to happen, but I think if I want to man up and go the 8-10 foot range again then I have to go back to a real shooter and I have drawn some good info from this thread.
Cheers

Select to expand quote

roodney said...

thedrip said..
If you live in the SW I am happy to lend you a board or two to try.

Really appreciate the offer but up in Perf do travel south often tho.

Well give us a yell. I have four or five boards around the seven foot mark and they are all capable of eight foot surf. I just like getting in earlier these days. I also tend to surf open ocean breaks rather than the sucky bay waves like north point. Raw ocean grunt does require different approaches in paddle power and rocker.

All my mates who have surfed my long low rocker boards are amazed how well they take late drops, because they all look at them and think they won't work. Basically I have returned to modern versions of designs that worked in the 70s and 80s. They just aren't the cool things anymore. Having said that, what is the Hypto krypto other than a 70s single fin with some modern tweaks?

Ps: I pretty much have loathed all the epoxy boards I have surfed. They just don't feel right.

Oh and go glass. Double six ounce is mandatory in my books. With wide rail laps. I hate snapping boards and swimming in heavy water.

Yes thinking of you, the poor sucker I saw get dragged out and spat out the back last Friday because you couldn't get in against the inshore river. I laughed at you, but only in sympathy. Honest.

What the Drip has said

Wide point forward
Rounded Pins or Pins
Get a grey hair onto it
Low continuous rockers
Boxyish rails


...I also don't like anything to funky on the bottom just a standard vee to double to vee or vee to single...withoiut having too much of anything....I like my guns to be faily nuetral...I don't want something that does anything else but exactly what I tell it to do....

You will know me in big surf by my rictus grin and poo man stance

Aaah...the poo man. We obviously went to the same surf school.

I also tend to have my front hand pointing in desperation for where I want to go. More a signal for everyone else not to expect me to turn.

Dont forget about fin placement...super important on a bigger wave stick its all related to the width of the tail


...I can tell how big its been by how far my toes have curled into the wax

Select to expand quote

thedrip said..
Oh and go glass. Double six ounce is mandatory in my books. With wide rail laps. I hate snapping boards and swimming in heavy water.

Yes thinking of you, the poor sucker I saw get dragged out and spat out the back last Friday because you couldn't get in against the inshore river. I laughed at you, but only in sympathy. Honest.

Really thinking now, a Dale Wilson channel, custom, glass on fins. But I really want to travel with it as well.
The chillii fader looks nice has heaps of volume nice curve, local shop has one at the moment. Might have to get two, a traveler and a home board
Keep coming at me with ideas and experience please

Select to expand quote

roodney said...

thedrip said..
Oh and go glass. Double six ounce is mandatory in my books. With wide rail laps. I hate snapping boards and swimming in heavy water.

Yes thinking of you, the poor sucker I saw get dragged out and spat out the back last Friday because you couldn't get in against the inshore river. I laughed at you, but only in sympathy. Honest.

Really thinking now, a Dale Wilson channel, custom, glass on fins. But I really want to travel with it as well.
The chillii fader looks nice has heaps of volume nice curve, local shop has one at the moment. Might have to get two, a traveler and a home board
Keep coming at me with ideas and experience please

I have three channel boards. I love channels. I'm not convinced channels are for big waves at all. Think inji point, not north point.

If this is your gun, think long and hard about channels. Channels give you speed. Lots and lots of speed. Gun surfboard design tends to be about getting you in, making the drop, then controlling the available speed. It is very rare that a gun surfboard is trying to make speed. They may wash off more or less of what available, but they don't aim to make it.


Occy at biggish Bells needed speed on the fatter sections, hence channels. Channels for most waves over six feet? I reckon you would find them very difficult to modulate. Slowing down when you want. It would just be full rip continuously.

Inji carpark & point, two faves.

Select to expand quote

roodney said...
Inji carpark & point, two faves.

I love my channel boards at inji point. Not so much for carparks.

In the length yku are looking at, they will also make turning a much wider arc. if you want a manoeuvrable semi-gun, avoid the channels.

Having now heard some of the waves you like surfing I have a couple of models worth looking at.

Al Bean does one called the Long Neck. It has heaps of paddle power with a pulled in tail for control. I have surfed it in several lengths and they are sensational boards. 8 foot is completely within its size range yet it can go down the scale too. It is a very versatile shape. My mates who have them live them.

Also the Yahoo Premier and dhufish. The dhufish is once again very capable in sizey waves. Many ripple surf them at big Yals. I prefer the Wahoo myself as I like the round tail pulling in the tail further. The premiere may just be the step up you are looking for though. Ring Al and check out the yahoo website.

I have a Nathan Rose 9'6 x 21 3/4 x 3 7/8 at about 85L
Some pretty big numbers there but wanted a wave catching machine.
Don't be too scared going big. Not necessarily length but you'll be surprised at how well a 22 x 4 board can surf especially with the right shape.
Plus when paddling out in 10-15 foot waves are you honestly going to be doing anything but going straight hahaha.
Had an epic sesh last week and paddled into some nice bombs.