With respect , shapers that have workers build there boards loose the essence of what a true shaper is, having never built a board over 45 years in the water ,been lucky enough to afford to buy quality hand made boards , early days Mccoy /Macintosh / Lynch and recently Ronnie Goddards (best i have ever had)

Still have most of them still all very good condition and usable ,some 30 years or more old and the ones i dont my sons ride occasionally , Plenty of other great shapers and builders here in Aus,buy local if you cam

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Ron your boards are amazing but you need a snickers my friend!

I guess so...sorry about that

One thing I think you have done exceptionally well Ron is nailed the mid length particularly around the 8 foot mark and then your longboards are awesome too. I know a lot of people who are or arent great surfers find that midlength so versatile and you have a whole range of awesome midlengths. People can be frustrating but trust me it's goes across all industries!!

Pfff @ McHenry ,all of his boards look like they go from the short,mid and long have you seen his Knife Blade board and I've ridden his Silk Pin very nice board to ride. Vanders has never surfed better on anything else.

I get tire kickers in store often its part of doing business. I laughed at Ron's comments that he mentions to sales people he is one,I've used that its funny I'd rather the salesperson know so they can go make a sale elsewhere.

I agree with RG.
Although it doesn't matter what industry and this has nothing to do with the original post but
If you get paid for your time then tyre kickers are a pain in the arse.

Your time and skill are what you have built through experience and what you get paid for people take advantage of it and think your a free information service.

Obviously you can't get the sale without the talking and ordering bit but a lot of people that take advantage of the process and your time.

It's like getting a builder around for a quote when you are just thinking about it

While I'm going...
It's farking right up there on the pain in the arse stakes with when they ask you your opinion on something and then before you can start with an opinion gained through knowledge and experience they tell you that they have googled it..

And even worse SP when they ask your opinion but have their mind made up already and do not even listen - then behave irrationally and come back later asking for your advice to fix things.........

Great thread this one. Loving it.

Its really just that some people procrastinate more than others,I don't think anyone does it to intentionally **** someone around,although I do with unsolicited phone calls

Let me just say that building a relationship with a shaper pays dividends (the shaper not the salesman).

I'm far from being anywhere close to even half an expert and so rely on the shaper to design in/out certain wanted or unwanted characteristics in the board. Being honest about your ability and what you want to achieve, where you surf and the size of the waves you want to use the board in will get you to an honest starting point.

I say starting point because until you get on the board and give it some time in the water neither the buyer or the shaper really knows for sure how the two will gell. It's sometimes the second or third version that really nails it.

Building that relationship with the shaper through buying their boards also buys you quality chat time, in my case it's been beers, coffee & tim tams, sharing a fireplace in their home and hours of banter and advise from guys like Ron G and Steve del Rosso that are worth every dollar spent on a bit of kit that always puts a smile on my face, priceless I reckon!!

P.s. Ron doesn't need a snickers he needs the double dipped tim tams.

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Ricardo1709 said..
Its really just that some people procrastinate more than others,I don't think anyone does it to intentionally **** someone around,although I do with unsolicited phone calls

My board maker has screamed at me over the phone once


and to be honest I deserved it

Too funny I can't imagine why I noticed bob is not only greyer but going bald too I hope you're happy

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OlSteve said..
hi cats, long time lurker finally signed up. Im 45 from Newcastle, back surfing (on a longboard) the past 12 months after a .........30 year break.
anyway, ive got my mojo back and have a few boards but feel the need to spring for a real gem. I dont really want to spend the coin on a Mac T but i noticed Goddard boards feature on this site a bit. So are they any good?

steve

This was was original question and the first 2 or 3 replys answered the question. So before Ron got back to me i guessed his boards prices would reflect their reputation, and rightly so. The response i got from Ron was great and explained that as i only gave him a 9'6" longboard to quote i guessed i was not going to get a solid number. I was happy with his numbers and his explination as to what type of thing add to the cost.
i did email McT with a similar question and got a great respose also. Only difference is they did not get on a forum and rant about inocent hardworking potential customers "tire kicking" in fact i have had a couple follow up emails from Tav sudgesting other options and glassing schedules.
What ****s me in any industry is when people selling a rather expensive product are not prepared to at least appear humble and interested in a new potential customer. Its like buying something you have an interest in but dont have 40 years experience making it. Think about buying a new car, or jet ski or big flat screen tv, sure 99% of the public appear to be uninformed clowns to the salesman but sometimes you need to put the time in to get the sale and only then should you expect repeat sales, esspecially when someone lives 7 hours drive away.
Bag McTav all you like but at some stage Bob put his money where his mouth is and employed staff, salesmen, managers, office staff, advertising people, PR staff and sunk big money into expanding workshops Ect..and it payed off.
i guess after all this i would be better of getting something local from Pete Sheely or Jye Byrnes.
i understand Ron is a top bloke and knows his stuff but instead of whining about driving a bus for a living instead of making boards maybe he should be happy to invest a few minutes in an email that could have ended up in a long happy relationship With a new customer.

Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

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Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

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chrispy said..

Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

Yeah kind of,wait Chrispy it is about to go to a whole new level watch this space

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leashless said..
While I agree with you in some aspect Ron - I must say nothing frustrates me more than shapers having great websites speeling on about their product and then no mention of prices at all....

This forces the "tyre kicker" to email the shaper asking about prices in a round about way. Similar to the example you provided. I had a quick look at your site and there doesn't seem to be any mention of prices at all.

Now I understand the sales aspect of having the prices somewhat secret so the customer is forced to contact you, this gives you the chance to build repor and hopefully a sale.

But in my view a very large majority of the tyre kickers just want to know the price of the board. Simple solution would be to put your price list up on your website. Heck even have basic prices and add on's set out.

I don't understand the whole big secret to pricing of boards.

Bro you can only put a price on a board that's already made so if a shaper holds stock then yes you will generally see prices and you can buy that board straight away...if its a full custom job then the price will vary depending on what you ask for...hence a straight up 9'6 might cost $1500 but once you start adding extras it could go well over the 2k mark...

One thing that shaping my own has taught me is there is a lot of hard work and knowledge going into each and every board someone makes and even at $1500-2000 your getting a bargain every time

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Macaha said...

chrispy said..

Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

Yeah kind of,wait Chrispy it is about to go to a whole new level watch this space

Tufflites or nsp again mac

Plus i might already know long ago what you're hinting at...

And its not kind of...What i posted is 100% fact

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Tux said..
One thing that shaping my own has taught me is there is a lot of hard work and knowledge going into each and every board someone makes and even at $1500-2000 your getting a bargain every time

Yeah I agree after fixing a couple of snapped (Chinese ) boards and lamininating a few deck patches the hourly rate for a hand shaped custom is probably less than what the cleaner gets at your work.

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chrispy said..

Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

WOW, To be honest I do not know the story, just like to assume the little Aussie battler built the dream all by himself. Everyone has a story I guess.

No bagging him just the Chinese. But even thats not fair 100% of the time. The guys from ECS moved their operation to China. I can see why these guys would piss off they local shapers as they are selling new longboards for around $600. But Nat and Ryan are the nicest people and I am guility of buying one of their boards when I got back in the water. They even replaced one board for free after i creased it in big conditions.

Lucky we are not all the same otherwise the world would be a boring old place.

Yahoo surfboards have a price list on a blackboard in their store starting with a basic white surfbord. The prices vary according to length. Then each option is priced - colour, gloss, fins etc - and it is very easy to get a pretty accurate idea of what the new dream machine will cost. It's like optioning up a car. I don't think that is too onerous. Their website also has prices listed as "Starting from...With a custom anything is possible". I don't think there is anything too onerous there for any shaper. The customs also get Marks hands touching the board after the machines rough shape without any increase in price. He also reviews any CAD files a few times after the sit down and chat with the customer and makes any subtle changes he thinks will get the board performing the way the customer wanted. I have had pure handshapes, CNC then hand finished by Mark, and a stock board finished by someone else (his two finishers are also respected local shapers - Zac Ogram and Al Bean). All have worked well, and all the pricing has reflected the blackboard, despite some of the pricing being set by The Factory and not Yahoo.

It shouldn't be hard to price a board for a potential customer. I don't buy a car or a tv without shopping around either.

Al Bean is quite happy to send quotes too. I got a quote last year for a board (six channel single fin) then decided to not pursue it. He still talks to me when he sees me.

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thedrip said..
Yahoo surfboards have a price list on a blackboard in their store starting with a basic white surfbord. The prices vary according to length. Then each option is priced - colour, gloss, fins etc - and it is very easy to get a pretty accurate idea of what the new dream machine will cost. It's like optioning up a car. I don't think that is too onerous. Their website also has prices listed as "Starting from...With a custom anything is possible". I don't think there is anything too onerous there for any shaper. The customs also get Marks hands touching the board after the machines rough shape without any increase in price. He also reviews any CAD files a few times after the sit down and chat with the customer and makes any subtle changes he thinks will get the board performing the way the customer wanted. I have had pure handshapes, CNC then hand finished by Mark, and a stock board finished by someone else (his two finishers are also respected local shapers - Zac Ogram and Al Bean). All have worked well, and all the pricing has reflected the blackboard, despite some of the pricing being set by The Factory and not Yahoo.

It shouldn't be hard to price a board for a potential customer. I don't buy a car or a tv without shopping around either.

Al Bean is quite happy to send quotes too. I got a quote last year for a board (six channel single fin) then decided to not pursue it. He still talks to me when he sees me.

He just puts an extra $50 on your next order

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OlSteve said..

Tux said..
One thing that shaping my own has taught me is there is a lot of hard work and knowledge going into each and every board someone makes and even at $1500-2000 your getting a bargain every time

Yeah I agree after fixing a couple of snapped (Chinese ) boards and lamininating a few deck patches the hourly rate for a hand shaped custom is probably less than what the cleaner gets at your work.

chrispy said..

Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

WOW, To be honest I do not know the story, just like to assume the little Aussie battler built the dream all by himself. Everyone has a story I guess.

No bagging him just the Chinese. But even thats not fair 100% of the time. The guys from ECS moved their operation to China. I can see why these guys would piss off they local shapers as they are selling new longboards for around $600. But Nat and Ryan are the nicest people and I am guility of buying one of their boards when I got back in the water. They even replaced one board for free after i creased it in big conditions.

Lucky we are not all the same otherwise the world would be a boring old place.

Don't worry Bob's doing fine but made a huge mistake years ago selling his name to pay off a debt to Warren Cornish for raw materials.

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Macaha said..

OlSteve said..

Tux said..
One thing that shaping my own has taught me is there is a lot of hard work and knowledge going into each and every board someone makes and even at $1500-2000 your getting a bargain every time

Yeah I agree after fixing a couple of snapped (Chinese ) boards and lamininating a few deck patches the hourly rate for a hand shaped custom is probably less than what the cleaner gets at your work.

chrispy said..

Macaha said...
Steve on Mctavish get your hands on a copy of Bobs first book "Stoked " it will explain. I didn't read any bagging of him.

I like how he thinks bob has made mctavish into what it is now lol.

The man is a brilliant board shaper,designer,innovator and story teller...but he has to be just as brilliantly **** as a businessman ....like many great artists

Yeh steve ,bob built the company right into the ground until a couple of smart business guys came and used the name well and turned it into the raging sales machine it is today.

WOW, To be honest I do not know the story, just like to assume the little Aussie battler built the dream all by himself. Everyone has a story I guess.

No bagging him just the Chinese. But even thats not fair 100% of the time. The guys from ECS moved their operation to China. I can see why these guys would piss off they local shapers as they are selling new longboards for around $600. But Nat and Ryan are the nicest people and I am guility of buying one of their boards when I got back in the water. They even replaced one board for free after i creased it in big conditions.

Lucky we are not all the same otherwise the world would be a boring old place.

Don't worry Bob's doing fine but made a huge mistake years ago selling his name to pay off a debt to Warren Cornish for raw materials.

piss off mac...you can sugar coat it all you want but bob is the first person to say what I just have.

The bens saved his arse and he should thank god for the hipsters making him more coin. I love the bloke and his stories. But mate get your head outta bobs arse

Sugar coat not sure what you mean

When people call me up for a quote and mention "I'm getting a few quotes" the line usually drops out.

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NewScotty said..
When people call me up for a quote and mention "I'm getting a few quotes" the line usually drops out.

OK I'll quote you hahaha

We tender commercial building jobs all the time with 5 builders tendering

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Tux said..

leashless said..
While I agree with you in some aspect Ron - I must say nothing frustrates me more than shapers having great websites speeling on about their product and then no mention of prices at all....

This forces the "tyre kicker" to email the shaper asking about prices in a round about way. Similar to the example you provided. I had a quick look at your site and there doesn't seem to be any mention of prices at all.

Now I understand the sales aspect of having the prices somewhat secret so the customer is forced to contact you, this gives you the chance to build repor and hopefully a sale.

But in my view a very large majority of the tyre kickers just want to know the price of the board. Simple solution would be to put your price list up on your website. Heck even have basic prices and add on's set out.

I don't understand the whole big secret to pricing of boards.

Bro you can only put a price on a board that's already made so if a shaper holds stock then yes you will generally see prices and you can buy that board straight away...if its a full custom job then the price will vary depending on what you ask for...hence a straight up 9'6 might cost $1500 but once you start adding extras it could go well over the 2k mark...

One thing that shaping my own has taught me is there is a lot of hard work and knowledge going into each and every board someone makes and even at $1500-2000 your getting a bargain every time

I dont agree with the notion of only pricing a finished board - And beyond that first sentence you pretty much agreed with what I said. 906 will cost $1500 but once you start adding extra's the price goes up..

The pricing of custom made boards is not the issue - we all agree there is a bucket load of work that goes into boards and the experience needed to create something beautiful and functional. It is just that Ron was complaining about Tyre Kickers and one way to help alleviate this was to include a pricelist on his website...

Lots of shapers have this! Off the top of my head some shapers that provide this include McTavish, Thomas, Corey Graham, Chris Garret, DJB, Bryan Bates etc... It is not a difficult or time consuming thing to do...

I think Chris Garrett sums it up best on his site:

"The base price for this board...ie...sprayed white, 3 layers glass and system side plugs/boxes is $750....with set fins...$790. You can custom order from this site if you like and I'll personally help you with the finer details....just fill out the basic details in the relevant fields and email it off and I'll be in touch in the next few days. Typical build time for a custom order is two weeks"

Pretty simple and shows that there are additional costs involved for what you want...

Anyway - overall I am not too fussed. It is Ron's boards, business and issue. If he wants to take on the feedback from potential customers like OlSteve then thats entirely up to him... From all accounts his boards are great functional artworks and I hope that he is not too jaded with his craft and continues his work.

I think this is a great thread and im enjoying and learning what people from both sides of the fence think, act, expect, respond and how **** can get better..

I hope the thread grows..... maybe under a different topic?

Mctavish

9.6 $1535 for a (spray art)



go over 9.6 (it will cost more)
add a different stringer set up it (it will cost more)
add tint (it will cost more)
add more than 2 colours of tint (it will cost more)


a 1500 standard board can go up 2200 or 2300

want Bob to hand shape it add 400

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Macaha said..
Mctavish

9.6 $1535 for a (spray art)



go over 9.6 (it will cost more)
add a different stringer set up it (it will cost more)
add tint (it will cost more)
add more than 2 colours of tint (it will cost more)


a 1500 standard board can go up 2200 or 23000

want Bob to hand shape it add 400

$23,000 - Does it come with a boat to drive you out to the break? Hahaha. Bloody McTavish, soon we will be getting Roy and his million buck boards as standard!

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leashless said...

Macaha said..
Mctavish

9.6 $1535 for a (spray art)



go over 9.6 (it will cost more)
add a different stringer set up it (it will cost more)
add tint (it will cost more)
add more than 2 colours of tint (it will cost more)


a 1500 standard board can go up 2200 or 23000

want Bob to hand shape it add 400

$23,000 - Does it come with a boat to drive you out to the break? Hahaha. Bloody McTavish, soon we will be getting Roy and his million buck boards as standard!

And bob only sands them outta the machine for the extra 400 he is not mowing foam like he does at his dues parties on the stage?