Local shops are cool and I always try and buy local when I can to support the local industry as I lost my tie downs yesterday and was able to walk to the local shop and buy some that were actually better than my old ones.
Also the rash vests I get are by xcel and are the bomb for sup riding so I like visiting the store to see new items that the owners who all SUP stock and this shop is in a country town. I also tried to buy my sup from them but being a fat bastard back then I needed an Avanti so off online to WA to order that from the distributor. ( I actually ordered it through Queensland and was very happy with the service).
I bought my first sup from Balmoral (for my old man) at manly and I got the rolls royce service there, cant recommend them enough. I also visit the WSS at collaroy and the other manly sup shop and am always treated with friendly advice, a chat, smile and time.
Secondly when it comes to purchases over 1000 dollars i usually do a lot more homework.
I have had a totally different experience in bike shops however.
People who work in surf shops have a different vibe to people who work in the bike industry because the surf industry protects its wholesalers big time. As the sup industry is closely associated with the surf industry (intertwined) big names brands have set up good retail practices.

Hoppo I understand your frustration but I'll try and express the view of the consumer. As I am a bike whore, more than my sup collection.

Lets look at boardies.
Ask Colas how cheaply he can get a pair of rip curl boardies and I bet he has the same problem. They are around 50 euros or so, thats almost 100 bucks here and no one in Oz pays 100 bucks for boardies. In fact most surfers pay 40-60 dollars around 30 euros and that is at full retail price. This is maintained by the big surf brands to protect their product. Even in Australia it took a buyout of an American company to change the retail landscape here and the big surf companies are trying to discourage discount bargain shops.
When hurley was bought out in 2010 or so by a clothing mega chain. Who also own converse and nike. They set up a mega store in Sydney, you've probably got one in docklands too. Now I really wanted some hurley boardies so I was watching the situation closely. They were only available at full retail for 120 bucks as they were American right. Shipping from America and such to justify the cost (reminds me of the bike industry). Well these boardies are now available at 30-40 dollars and 3 for 50 at the Discount store. Seems someone was misleading someone about the cost of wholesale product as this shop was owned by the parent company. I raced in and bough three pairs haven't worn them yet, they are too good. I actually wear Ripcurl mirage range bought at bondi beach rip curl shop on summer sale for 2-$60 bucks.
Now at the Discount Hurley store do the shop staff know about the product. Nope but i've been surfing for over 20 years I don't need to know about them. This is where the sup industry differs from the bike industry, most people who walk into a bike store are going to have been riding for a long time and know a fair bit about the bikes. Unlike SUP buyers (either NEWBIES or relative newbies) who are making a large outlay on a dangerous product and want advice before laying down a lot of money.

Looking at bikes.
From personal experience after riding for over 20 years I am still greeted with attitude at bike shops every second or so visit and will seek out younger staff who are more likely to be friendly in my experience. I will be treated with little respect and not shown over new technology or new items. Often I will see a bike fitting machine or bike adjustment set up and even after buying two or three bikes at the store not offered any recognition of being a good customer. I spent over 4000 dollars in one shop and also encouraged my brother to buy a 2000 dollar bike form their in a three week period. Now these bikes are from a big bike chain and this is a retail store for that chain. All its bikes are made in Taiwan, its components in taiwan and china, they are all shipped directly to Australia. The bikes are more expensive than in America and England (around 30 percent more expensive and the wait times are double). The shop reps still give you the Overseas shipping expense when this is not the case. It is the parent company (or distributor which is one of the big problems in Australian bike industry) that is ripping off Australian consumers and the local shops and the biking fraternity has had enough. Have I bought a bike from Wiggle. Yep cost me 400 Australian dollars to have it shipped and 130 Aussie dollars for the bike. A third of the cost of the bike here. In my defence it was a british company bike. Charge plug. Not easy to buy retail here. No distributor.

I feel your pain as bike shops are now becoming quasi store fronts for wiggle and CR online stores. WIGGLE has been very cheeky by opening an Australian buisness model. Something the government should have stopped in my opinion as it is anti competitive with Aussie bike shops. But how do these online buisness survive. By the major brands selling their product to these shops. And using a different model to the surf industry and this can be seen by looking directly at one brand. That is Rapha. Can you buy there stuff at WIGGLE. Nope, what about CR. No. The US mega shops. No not their either. So do they have a shop in Australia. Yep one in Sydney. One in Melbourne too. By keeping their product exclusive they have maintained their product worth and the roadies cant buy enough off the stuff. Especially all the expat English on their overpriced roadies. Other British brands such as Orange, Halo and Hope also keep their exclusivity by not offerring stock to the discount chains or still charging the same prices as those available in local UK shops.
So I think the problem in the bike industry is the big companies repsonsibility 70 percent and the UK governments responsibility around 30 percent. And this is the kicker. i actually lived in the UK. Its not so cheap to buy bike stuff over there however. If you asked an Englishmen out here they would say living in OZ is like getting paid $80 hour as those pounds are hard to come by back in the UK.
Buying bikes is an expensive proposition and the UK government actually helps out Australian consumers much more than their own folk. To keep English jobs.
I still feel for you Hoppo as it must be a frustrating place to work, maybe move into suspension as I know a few mechanics in suspension and they are a reasonable happy bunch.
I say keep the local shop ticking over. My local SUP shops are all rad.

Its not the extra cost that bothers me I like the back up of having purchased in Australia. Its the arrogance in the surf industry that is still prevalent in surf shops. I recently visited a sup shop in Torquay, ready to buy. I walked out fuming how I was talked down to and made to feel a kook. No wonder surf retail is suffering. I will buy online from now on.

Hoppo3228 said..
fair points Pumpjockey.

FYI Hope has always been all over CRC.

Australian law prohibits wholesalers not supplying to stores as long as they have a shop front. Even if u choose not to as a supplier, many find a way to grey market import, especially the bigger online chains.

I'm a consumer too mate and see rip offs all the time...

my biggest gripe is distributors sign an agreement to import x number of bikes/ sups etc. with it increasing year on year (as this is what the manufacturer demands). most of the time the product only changes colour not spec etc. So at the end of the season the distributor dumps out end of season stock, to allow next year's product to arrive. subsequently retailers need to dump out stock to make way for their new commitments (to remain a dealer) - so all that happens is perfectly good product gets completely dumped out to market - great for the consumer for sure, but then they become educated to only buy on sale... which is fine - but the retailer ends up making no money... like you say you've spent $4k on a bike where the store maybe only broke even on it...the starting margin on a reasonable bike is 30% or under, so after a basic 10% discount, they are only making 20% on it. before building, fitting and servicing it for free for a year or more. I don't know many other industries that could survive on margins like that. Automotive is the exception.

At the end of the day it's not a consumer's problem, but the first way a manufacturer could help fix the main problem is getting rid of year designation on product. however it's quite unlikely as they will in turn sell less product overall...

most of my career has been in footwear and apparell. completely different business model. margin is triple or more what hard goods are, and it's seasonal. The majority of stores are self retail mostly because they are the only ones who can afford shopping centre rents.

again I could go on about this forever but I guess nothing is going to change and the big guy will just get bigger and the small guy will disappear and when the day comes that no small guy exists- it will be a very sad day for all of us.

Hoppo I applaud you for posting this and taking the time to educate me and others on the forum about this and I respect you for sharing your views that help me make a more educated decision. I agree with your analysis and feel for the average bike shop worker and raise an even more dire point. The performance on new bikes. Before my recent purchase I bought two mid range giants and they never needed servicing. This is just scary. One trance and a defy 2 and the hydraulic brakes are as good 4 years down the track as they were bought. Now I admit I bought them form one of the premier bike shops in Sydney with excellent mechanics. But no repairs or service in four years and the defy has prototype disc brakes that still work with daily wheel changes ti fit in the back seat.
So thats more work the shops are missing out on.

I agree about hope too ditching their end of year stuff on the big clear out chains.

zoolanderZ said..

Piros said..
Zoolander that will never happen as there is just no margins for local shapers to sell through stores , want to support your local shaper go to him a buy a board he also fits into the above. If the local stores don't stock big brand boards how are you ever going to try or buy one , import it yourself ?

I think the days of distributors bringing boards in and then shipping around the country to retailers is slowly fading out because no one makes any real money and the poor punter ends paying for it. IMHO The only way shops can keep prices down is if they can order direct from the factory and this will help beat off online sales , plus be multi brand .This is a massive commitment by the shop selecting and paying for all the stock months in advance

So if you want to see the 2018 models in late 2017 you have to back the guys bringing it in. They can't do this without turn over and I'm not just talking boards , it's leggies , wetties ect ect. In the end we are the winners with fully stocked shops of all the best toys , walk in and walk out with a board. Not having to order on line and pray it doesn't get damaged in transit.

Piros said..
Zoolander that will never happen as there is just no margins for local shapers to sell through stores , want to support your local shaper go to him a buy a board he also fits into the above. If the local stores don't stock big brand boards how are you ever going to try or buy one , import it yourself ?

ZL: No you miss understand, I am not against shops, or them stocking big brands, I am saying they need to give Australian companies a go, and I'm not talking customs here, I'm talking production boards made overseas

Piros: I think the days of distributors bringing boards in and then shipping around the country to retailers is slowly fading out because no one makes any real money and the poor punter ends paying for it. IMHO The only way shops can keep prices down is if they can order direct from the factory and this will help beat off online sales , plus be multi brand

ZL: This is my point again, shops are now going direct (which I know they have to) so what happens to the smaller brands, there is not enough margin for everyone, so some brands have to sell direct. I don't think its fair to lump everyone into 1 basket - but I do agree that we need to support Australian stores and brands

Piros: So if you want to see the 2018 models in late 2017 you have to back the guys bringing it in. They can't do this without turn over and I'm not just talking boards , it's leggies , wetties ect ect.

ZL: Does this also include fins Piros?

Zoolander is bang on!! I know for a fact that Aussie shapers can produce in a factory overseas, just like the big boys, and sell through local stores and turn a profit.... If they're given a chance!!

Gboots said..

Green Tea said..
Its not the extra cost that bothers me I like the back up of having purchased in Australia. Its the arrogance in the surf industry that is still prevalent in surf shops. I recently visited a sup shop in Torquay, ready to buy. I walked out fuming how I was talked down to and made to feel a kook. No wonder surf retail is suffering. I will buy online from now on.

Go to a specialist SUP place rather than a surf shop

I recently visited a sup shop in Torquay

AndyR said..
What Sups shops or brands are purely sold online in Aus??

Every retailer I know of has a retail shop or factory shop ( for customs) and a online shop to maximise sales from all corners.

i would think to survive in a niche industry you need to have a great online webshop as well as a retail front.

I think the greatest thing for a retailer or a customer is the now ability to pay for things over time with out using credit cards or paying interest. I have a family member that started a cross fit clothing and equipment brand. She sells via online, and has a market stall at every major CrossFit event across Sth east Queensland most weekends. Her biggest way of sales is through customers using

AFTERPAY. Where you simply pay for the goods over 4 fortnightly payments with no interest. The customer pays full price and the seller makes a sale and gets the money in enough time to keep cash flow going. With out this option she wouldn't be making anywhere near the sales she does. Which makes the costs involved is having afterpay as an option so worth it.

Her products aren't that expensive though to the average mum and dad spending a couple hundred dollars on a product that is a "want" item not a "need" item is off putting, though outlaying $20 a fortnight for 4 fortnight's almost makes that $80 item feel like its cost nothing and does not stretch the average mum and dad weekly budget that way.
Its a win win situation for the customer and seller.

Yes afterpay has its benefits...however do you know how much she is paying afterpay to provide the service? 10% - 15%? sometimes more?

True, but on a $2,500 board thats between $250 and $375 margin wiped.

Zeus said :- Zoolander is bang on!! I know for a fact that Aussie shapers can produce in a factory overseas, just like the big boys, and sell through local stores and turn a profit.... If they're given a chance!!

Yes that's true but I was talking about local guys producing direct from their own factories.

AndyR said..

Hoppo3228 said..
True, but on a $2,500 board thats between $250 and $375 margin wiped.

Though if using afterpay the customer is paying full price no questions asked.

If you walk into a sup shop and have a relationship of any type with the shop as many many of us on this forum do have with the local shop or affiliated to a club that the shop supports you are going to get 5% to 10-15% off I would think.
Or you are waiting for the shop to have a 10-15% or more off sale
Or often the shop is giving a deal on discounted paddles and gear etc so I would think it evens out pretty close for profit for the retailer either way they are getting the sale.

What we should be doing is walking in paying full retail everytime. That's going to see the shops last the time

Can you come and buy boards from my shop please i like the way you think!!

paul.j said..


Can you come and buy boards from my shop please i like the way you think!!

Haha You don't want me in your shop, I'm officially Briskites worst customer, all I do is drink his coffee and stop him from actually getting any work done.

Seajuice said..
This is my experience. NSW was crap compared to Queensland regarding cheap price for good boards to get into paddle boarding.
Thanks to Surfboard Warehouse for my very first VexProfusion. Wished they were here in the Illawarra region. Still had to pay for delivery when I would have been glad to pay for a quality SUP local for an extra $200. But the prices local were far too high.

Hi Seajuice,,
Depends what board you are after and what prices you want to pay. Surefire Boards is located in the Illawarra and we have boards from entry level, entry level surf, high performance surf and custom SUP's all available, all very reasonably priced. Admittedly the website has been in redesign for over a year now so many of our products are still not on the website as it was not meant to take so long and I didn't see the point in updating a soon to be redundant website, and this includes SEO, so we may not have even popped up in google searches
We may not have had what you were after but we certainly would have some close options. Hopefully we can get the website sorted and our product line up to date soon with our new prices which have come down too, in the mean time if you guys are into supporting Aussie brands, Check out our instagram & facebook page to see some customs and give us a follow to show your support
www.instagram.com/surefire_boards/
www.facebook.com/surefireboards/

Cheers Guys

I've loved hanging around surf shops ever since I was a kid growing up on the northern beaches in Sydney.
Whats my local surf shop worth? Local surf shops are GOLD in my opinion. I don't really have a local, just lots of great experiences and connections with heaps of different folks e.g.
Salty Culture
Surf FX
Ocean Addicts
The Zoo
SHQ
Zaks Surf shop
Bris Kites
All these guys have been fantastic to deal with and more power to them!
long live the local surf shop!!!

Very cool Supthecreek

These are the guys to go see in Auckland - Brian is a font of knowledge, if he doesn't know, then he will find out for you

nzboardstore.co.nz/

I have watched this thread and commented at the beginning and I owned a retail/manufacturing business for 10 years and regardless of all the economics and babble about markets there is one factor that I will look for when I want to buy something worth a bit of coin, PEOPLE! I like and prefer to talk to a person face to face look at what I am buying touch discuss and think about my options and listen to advise!
I did this today at 2 outlets looking for a new paddle, I have been looking for a month, online reviews manufacturers web sites blah blah bla. I spoke to one guy today and he was nice but did not really know enough to satisfy my need to understand, not his fault he's just not the right fit for me.
So I kept going until I stopped at KR Sup in St Kilda and had a chat to Warick who happened to stock the paddle I was really interested in. We discussed a lot of options and he gave me enough info to consider and I said I would come back another day, thinking will I won't I spend $450.
Driving along I eventually found myself at home transferring money into another account and getting my existing paddle so Warick could measure the handle. Next thing I knew I was back at KR Sup and I walked out with a new paddle for Chrissy.
You will never get that from a Website, online store and that is worth paying extra $$$$, it's called the personal touch and humans need personal contact. The way I look at it the sky is falling in on retail and everyone is saying so just like Kindle was going to kill books,but it did not happen because we are human in the end.
Hopefully the businesses that are run well enough and have money in the bank can hold on for long enough for the wind to change or we will need to get the Hipsters to revive retail in 50 years!!!!!! No one wants that do they, so go to the shop in person and support PEOPLE??????