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PTWoody said..

husq2100 said..
ok ill bite, how does gravity power the foil. Actually I want to know what causes foward drive.

Gravity doesn't power the foil, water pressure does. It's exactly the same theory as flight except it is water pressure instead of air pressure. The foil causes the change in water pressure because it pulls some of the water upwards, which reduces pressure, and forces the rest beneath it, creating higher pressure. The result is lift.

Being on the face of the wave, you're constantly 'falling' to the bottom of trough of the wave, just like rolling down a hill.

Once at the bottom of the trough, it's inertia and/or a few paddle strokes to get you over the crest of the next wave and the whole process starts again.

Really efficient foils could work on a glide ratio of 100:3 that is 100m forward for a 3m drop in altitude. Pretty easily done in Hawaii

much more flat water & open ocean.

more focus on flat water & open ocean.

But a wave is not static... Not like rolling down a hill on a skateboard the wave itself is energy with forward momentum

www.facebook.com/hobiesup/videos/10154228082542855/

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Smash1 said..
www.facebook.com/hobiesup/videos/10154228082542855/

Blame this one on Hawaiiheke!!!

That's cool!

nice pink bits

Who will take the chocolates by delevoping the first inflatable babuska foiling sup?

Think a hard board -with a foil- in a or attached to bigger soft (inflatable) board.

Get the advantage of:
A hard board to stand on. A hard board for foil attachment.
A inflatable for size. A softer surface for crashes. Ability to pack down for easer storage.

Possibility of two board types in the one package.

Almost there with this.......

Or by doing a foil version of this.....

pendleboard.com/en/board-specs/

Will this be a bigger game changer than foils for us big boys- 105kgs? I think it will.

<div>http://www.sicmaui.com/blog/sic-introduces-fast-foot-actuated-steering-technology/?imt=1

A small, niche activity.

Look where Windsurfing went.
SUP will be exactly the same, except it is starting from a much, much smaller market.

Boards and paddles are far too expensive, the quality of production boards is pretty terrible really and the market is too small.

It is that simple.

Foils won't go anywhere, like they never went anywhere in Windsurfing.
On a Windsurfer they make far more sense than on a SUP and still they never went anywhere.

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SomeGuy said...
A small, niche activity.

On a Windsurfer they make far more sense than on a SUP and still they never went anywhere.

They need to arrive before they can go.. As far as windsurfing foils go they have never really been easily available and I know heaps of windsurfing crew that would love to try it.. including myself..

Kitesurfing foils has taken off big-time in some areas of the US with about 90% of them now on foils.. and it's increasing here as well.. I've never even seen a windsurfing foil here..

Naish and Starboard aren't forcing this onto anyone or saying its a must have thing but just making it more easily available to those that are interested or keen..

It will be interesting to see where it goes from here..

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SomeGuy said..
On a Windsurfer they make far more sense than on a SUP and still they never went anywhere.

Actually, foils for Windsurfers do not make sense:
- You need a lot of lift to raise the heavy board & rig out of the water: meaning lots of drag, and thus a limited speed increase. There was a RSX vid recently with boards with and without foils, and the foils were not going much faster than non-foils. So where is the advantage?
- Lateral forces / torque are huge on the foil, (rider as the feet on the rail for leverage), the box will have failures.

Kitefoils are now huge in France, because of these reasons: less weight to lift, and small lateral forces, and huge speed gain.

On a SUP, I do not know. Could stay a novelty as I do not see a lot of advantages relative to the technical challenge and the risks (hitting the bottom, people, yourself). Plus the box weight means you need to "sacrifice" a board for foil use. It seems from the vid that lighter boards are a huge plus for foiling, and imagine having a 5kg SUP board: would you add 1kg to put a foil box, or just enjoy a 5kg SUP? On the other hand, a SUP-specific foil (short mast length, geared to slow speeds) could be quite fun on places with no consistent waves...

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colas said...

SomeGuy said..
On a Windsurfer they make far more sense than on a SUP and still they never went anywhere.

Actually, foils for Windsurfers do not make sense:
- You need a lot of lift to raise the heavy board & rig out of the water: meaning lots of drag, and thus a limited speed increase. There was a RSX vid recently with boards with and without foils, and the foils were not going much faster than non-foils. So where is the advantage?

For me it's not about the speed.. It's about the quietness.. The smoothness.. and the feeling of flying.. along with the challenge of learning something new..

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DavidJohn said..

colas said...

SomeGuy said..
On a Windsurfer they make far more sense than on a SUP and still they never went anywhere.

Actually, foils for Windsurfers do not make sense:
- You need a lot of lift to raise the heavy board & rig out of the water: meaning lots of drag, and thus a limited speed increase. There was a RSX vid recently with boards with and without foils, and the foils were not going much faster than non-foils. So where is the advantage?

For me it's not about the speed.. It's about the quietness.. The smoothness.. and the feeling of flying.. along with the challenge of learning something new..

you make me want to have one after that post

I've been playing with Sup foils for a couple of months now. The wheel does not need to re invented the kiters have done all the work. Firstly we do not need a custom foil for a Sup there are tons of kite foils that support a Sup. Everyone thinks you need a larger foil for a Sup this is wrong. We are not using paddle energy to get the foil up but wave energy. Everyone keeps comparing a Sup foil to a windsurfer because they are the same size , these guys are riding same sized foils as a kite foil.

It's not about speed but the ability to glide and until you have tried it , you won't know what I mean. Jump on Facebook and see many people worldwide are having a crack at this. You don't have to ruin your board to attach a foil have a look at this pic below of a mate of mine Vasco converted his Sup board with a 4 bolt connection for the foil.

I was meaning foils never went anywhere in Windsurfing back in the day.

They tried it very early on in the Windsurfer One Design days.
The foils were a different design to the ones being pushed now.
They looked like the foils on the old Manly Hydrofoils.

Then when Windsurfing was huge in the early 90's or whenever, foils similar in design to the ones being pushed today.

Also tried to push them in water skiing with similar results.

The reality is that they are difficult to learn.
Unless you have very good technique, it takes a lot of speed and power to get the thing out of the water and then maintain control.

On a Windsurfer, you have the power of the sail and in a wipe-out you have the weight of the rig to hopefully keep the board in the water and foil side down.

You can have spectacular wipeouts that can easily involve real danger.

It's going to be interesting when people start surfing these in crowded breaks.

Production ones will have the shaft snap, boards snap, fin-boxes rip-out etc.
Quality control of production SUPs is just not good enough for this.

A custom board, or a well made production board can handle it.
Maybe this will push the quality of production boards and will turn into a good thing?

If you are somewhere, like say Maui, where the wind and wave conditions can be very consistent and very predictable before you go out, then yes they can really work.
Places like Australia where the wind and water conditions are a crap shoot it is much more difficult.

I've never ridden a kite.
I guess in kiting it is so dangerous already, that the rider already know what they are in for.
So in kiting it does make sense and can work really well.
Also you have the power of the kite to get the foil up.

I don't mean to be negative.
I'd love to be wrong, but I predict a lot of foil boards in the back of garages gathering dust after half a dozen outings.

Got anymore negative questions , just watch this .

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Piros said...
Got anymore negative questions , just watch this .

www.facebook.com/kai.lenny/videos/10154375563294312/

Wow

As for price, check this out for a full carbon foil:

www.jshapes.com/products/hydrofoil-95mast

www.jshapes.com/products/carbon-finish-foil-fuselage

www.jshapes.com/products/deep-total-box

... and scroll down here to see windsurf, SUP and towing into small swells.