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shaper said...
FROM A SHAPER OF 20YRS+ to dj...a tail shape makes SOO MUCH DIFFERENCE TO A BOARDS TURNING CIRCLE..... ON ANY TYPE OF BOARD ITS CRAZY!....if it didnt we would all just be riding 1 design tail on EVERYTHING!!!

Plus 1 but you need to be able(have ability) to turn the thing on a good wave to feel it. Going straight you will not.

Are you suggesting that people should learn to do a simple bottom turn / top turn combo before they post reviews of the lastest wave board from their favorite SUP brand ??

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rustbucket2 said..
Are you suggesting that people should learn to do a simple bottom turn / top turn combo before they post reviews of the lastest wave board from their favorite SUP brand ??

Yes

Form a prone surfers prospective tail shapes make a HUGE difference in turning ability be it short or longboard.
One thing that has not been mentioned is the tail shape MUST work with the back third of the outline shape.

To the author I suggest you spend a few hours with a good shaper,educate yourself of board design,outline,rocker
tail shape,all the above will have you purchasing your next sup for the waves YOU ride in your local area.Point break,beach break
and shape and size of the waves.I only order/purchase from local shapers for this reason,they KNOW the shape and size of waves
on offer locally.You will see the guys on the WSL tour riding locally made boards where the event is being held from time to time for this very reason. Overtime you will be able to walk into any store and pick out the gem boards without some shop assistant pushing dead wood at the uneducated purchaser.

Thanks Macaha - sage advice & that's exactly what I've done i.e. I recently spent a fair amount of time with a former prone surfer who knows our local conditions like the back of his hand & he's been my point of contact for his shaper both of whom have recommended a couple of boards to hopefully steer me (get it - haha) in the right direction.

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DavidJohn said..

shaper said..
FROM A SHAPER OF 20YRS+ to dj...a tail shape makes SOO MUCH DIFFERENCE TO A BOARDS TURNING CIRCLE..... ON ANY TYPE OF BOARD ITS CRAZY!....if it didnt we would all just be riding 1 design tail on EVERYTHING!!!

Read my post again please.. and I will will try and explain my point one more time..

Imagine two identical boards both with a 4" square tail.. Now cut a v into the first one of the two boards in that square tail that goes 1/4" into the center of the board.. Glass it up and you now don't have a square tail anymore.. You now have a swallow tail board.. It might only be a very slight swallow but it's still a swallow tail..

Now.. Take that piece that you cut from the first board (it's a triangle.. 4" long and a 1/4" hight) and glue it onto the tail of the second board and guess what.. Now you don't have a square tail anymore.. What is it? .. It's now a diamond tail board..

Now surf both boards and IMO there is no way you could tell the difference.. You would have a swallow tail board surfing exactly the same as a diamond tail board.. How could the turning circle be any different?

This is my point..

Sorry DJ but your wrong have you actually tried this experiment yourself? As I have and have had 3 boards machined cut all the same with 3 different tails , a swallow , a square tail and a round tail and each surfs slightly different through the turns than the other ... But yeah some people who are learning would never notice , but for myself who has been surfing my whole life the difference is actually massive !
And it would be almost impossible to try this unless your were a shaper or had a shaper would you could trust would do 3 boards exactly the same well also you can never have any board exactly the same but you can try as best you can

Thanks Dan.. I'm cool with that.. It's very cool that you did that..

Thanks for your thoughts about this.. I'm not saying I'm right.. I'm not saying you're wrong.. It's just my opinion..

I still can't help thinking you're looking at a much bigger picture here rather than exactly what I'm trying to say..

Please try and make it to Merimbula again this year and we can chat about this some more..

Hi DTM, your tail experimentation on the same 3 board is very interesting. What was those board's dimensions please , It's seem to me important to know because i'm dealing with minimum SUP stability doable width while designing my own board so tail specifications come in second but still get my eye on it.
I agreed with DJ because he is SUPing big board and I agree with you too because I think you are experimenting on smaller boards.
I think that on really small board like conventionnal shortboard as 6'>18" or 6'<20", changing tail is changing the all shape of the board. So experimenting 3 different tails starting from a a standard 6'>18" or 6'<20" plug is a non sens because lines are changing from nose to tail.
I reckon you can swop 3 different tails on a big board moving lines on the last half foot, making some change in turns while riding a SUP from the rear part of the tail but you won't have the same riding engaged attitude you may find between a squash, fish or swallow tail shortboards with dimensions around 6'>18" or 6'<20"

I have to agree with DTM DJ, Tail shape has a huge impact on a boards performance. I don't have Dan's shaping skills,however, the guy who does my boards did a similar thing for me. The boards were machine cut and have the same outline and rocker profile, however one is square, one swallow and the third rounded pin. There is a huge difference in how each performs and I can feel it even if I don't follow Hilly's advice and complete a bottom and top turn. I was lucky enough to spend a few hours with Burt Berger (previously Fire Wire Surfboards) on Sunday night and he discussed this very topic for hours. Every facet of board design from material, plan shape, rocker, fin size and placement, flex etc etc all has a huge impact on how aboard performs. Yellow perhaps less of a factor.

allgood DJ I do this those old merimbula days so fun ... Though I have been back just not in the comp period had the bar super fun too

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Kami said..
I reckon you can swop 3 different tails on a big board moving lines on the last half foot, making some change in turns while riding a SUP from the rear part of the tail but you won't have the same riding engaged attitude you may find between a squash, fish or swallow tail shortboards with dimensions around 6'>18" or 6'<20"

Totally disagree as I surf longer boards and that last part of the board is vital.

Have a look at an underwater shot and see how much of the back third is in the wave of a surfboard.




That influence is exaggerated with a big sup. A smaller percent of the board is under the water so the tail curve and shape has a greater effect on the feel of the board. IMO

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hilly said..

Kami said..
I reckon you can swop 3 different tails on a big board moving lines on the last half foot, making some change in turns while riding a SUP from the rear part of the tail but you won't have the same riding engaged attitude you may find between a squash, fish or swallow tail shortboards with dimensions around 6'>18" or 6'<20"

Totally disagree as I surf longer boards and that last part of the board is vital.

Have a look at an underwater shot and see how much of the back third is in the wave of a surfboard.




That influence is exaggerated with a big sup. A smaller percent of the board is under the water so the tail curve and shape has a greater effect on the feel of the board. IMO

Thanks to your reply
You right Hilly, just still thinking there is slight difference between tail SUP influence rather than the large difference of short board up to different tails. Convergent lines coming from tail shape to the wide point and thickness of short board. This is why I like SUP smaller as possible to make work board more from front part as modern thruster does.
I ask you as surfer not as a SUPer cause you do with longer SUP : do you think it's doable to surf this 7'27" SUP as a short board while surfing from last third to half part of the board like this concave plan shape tail
Note: yellow is concave and red convex, blue is fairly flat.

Hard to look at a computer design and tell. I am with dtm you need to surf the boards to make a real call and then tweak the design.

27 wide I dream of at 107kg more a 29 wide man
Plus I prefer pointy noses