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rghdc said..wouldn't Kirk's S4 be a more advance and/or refined approach over the deep single concave on the Gong board?

This I would not say, part because I never rode S4s, and part because I do not think there is such thing as a "better" shape, outside of competition. We do not have a startup & a finish line with a chronometer, or a panel of judges with specific judging criterion (well, in free surf anyways :-).

I have had (and have now) wide planshape boards with double concave and five fin boxes. They are my favorite boards, the ones getting the most water time, and the favorite of users in the Gong line (for those interested: Faking, Mutant 2011, One ...). These are the kind of boards (in any brand: I would advise the L4 simsups too) I advise people to get if they want only one board for surfing, as you get the glide of longboards with the handling of modern boards.

But what I like also is the kind of "vintage" SUP boards that explores atypical and/or historical surf shapes with maybe a modern twist, but still keeping the original feeling. Perhaps because I was frustrated in my prone years not having enough water time to dare buy theses shapes (I remember drooling for weeks in front of a balsa Phil Edwards replica). The big concave and the twin fins on the tail definitely give a different ride. Is it better? who knows? - Is it fun? definitively yes!
But I also ride and enjoy mainstream "competition" shapes, "Anti-Simmons" (deep concave in the nose, belly pin tail in single fin, a bit like the "Comet" or the Takayama "Scorpion"), speed demons with 50/50 rails all the way, noseriders, ...

rghdc, I got my Simmons in august, but did not really saw something special. I enjoyed it in slow mushy waves, but it was on my "to sell list" to make room for new toys. Then, by accident in February, I used in waves that I thought were too powerful for its big tail, and my preconceptions were shattered... Why exactly, I don't know but this Simmons shape seemed to be at least as manageable in these conditions than the standard double-concave quads I had. I guess, but I may be wrong, because the Simmons shape have some kind of "latency" entering in the turn that help control the ride at speed? Anyways, I have removed it from my "to sell" list :-)

So take my post as an encouragement to try "weird" shapes. There is not a predetermined evolution path that board shapes should follow. I, for instance, would really like to try a McCoy "nugget" SUP version.

Ahhh - McCoy Nugget....I have one of those....lots of design theory packed into that board.....surfs great in punchier stuff.

They seem to be designed along the same lines as the L4 simsup, but more rocker, They probably would work well with a bit of tweaking.

Man, this is hard. I've been looking at a MiniSimmons style shape for a while now, since I find my current shape stiff in small surf. I have a Flikka boards custom 8'10x31.75" and it's really good as long as there's punch in the wave but most of the time what I surf in is just too weak. We're talking wind-driven, short period waves in quite a bit of wind - 10-30kts... Wave height from ankle slappers to waist or shoulder at best. When waves are bigger, I'll be windsurfing. I've been really frustrated about the stiffness of the board until I realized that I just wasn't standing far back enough. Since I moved my rear foot all the way back and adopted a wide Laird-like stance, it's super loose. Trouble is, the pintail means that as soon as I step back I also lose speed. So I'm looking for a good wide tailed board for weak waves. I used to own a NahSkwell getup 7'8" fish which was fun but a little too rockered for the smallest stuff. So now I'm thinking about these

AHD Sealion Classic or Pro http://www.ahd-boards.com/models/sealion-pro
Gong AS 8'0 gongsupshop.com/GONG-SUP-80-AS-CARIBOU
Corran Retro corransup.com/retro/
Gong One 6'8" 125 gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box1707/Products/GON2SUPONSP125
Gong Final 8'2" 125 www.gongsup.com/Final-8-2.html?lang=en

I'm thinking the One is probably too short for windy conditions and the Final 8'2 is maybe similar to what I'm using today. The 8'0 AS is maybe what I'm looking for but it doesn't sound like the loosest board out there. Or is it? What I want is a wide tailed board that can be thrown around and slashed in very small and weak waves but I'm not the best with the paddle just yet. I'm keeping the 8'10 for better waves... Any input is welcome, I'm at my wit's end and demos are not an option...

The boards listed above are readily available around here, other simps don't seem to be...

I would advise the Gong Final 8'2". Its 100% carbon construction (no fiberglass anywhere) makes it insanely precise, responsive and dynamic (and light) without feeling bouncy like a PVC sandwich board, and its shape is designed for the kind of slow waves you describe. I guarantee you it will be another world compared to what you have currently, and it will be easy enough (stable, not too much row) to be fun immediately. It is a very versatile shape, you can noseride, slash, carve... I have its heavier sister, the Gong Empire 8'3", who is my "insane chop & wind" board. With a thruster setup it allows tights turns in the pocket, with a quad setup, you can have the most speed to connect sections.

Warning: Gong "Pro" boards are made once a year (around end of summer), so quantities are limited and they sell extremely fast. The "Semi pro" construction is the same (no glass, 100% carbon), but cheaper as it has a white paint on the hull rather than a glossy finish (The paint makes it heavier by ~ 0.5kg, but it requires less expensive manpower to obtain a glossy finish, and allows the board to be left in the sun on the beach). Also full carbon boards are quite resistant to "normal" hits (paddle hits), but hard impacts (on rocks, or on your bones or the paddle in heavy wipeouts) will create big dents. Carbon is hard to fail, but when it fails it fails big. Very easy to repair, however.

"Pro" shape are also more demanding technically: they have less rocker, so are faster, but you need to move on the board to make them work. For instance, moving your rear foot well on the kickpad is mandatory to make the Final perform. The Caribou ("Empire") and Bamby ("Cloud") lines are less demanding (more rocker and softer rails)

Other boards are good choices too, but in different ways:

The Gong One 6'8" would be the ultimate board for your conditions, but it will require learning a new technique, and be perserverant enough to not be discouraged at first while learning you to master the row of these ShortSUPs. And they are very tiring. Also, if you are already a prone shortboard surfer, once you master the row, you will feel rigth at home to apply your shortboard technique. If not, I would advise going through a ~8' board first, the 6'8" will be too hard to master coming from a 8'10".

The AS 8'0" is a real Simmons (heaving rear concave, twin keel fins far back on the rear). It works very well in slow waves, but it cannot be described as a "slashing" board. You will not turn by releasing the fins and sliding the tail, you will carve turns, but you will be able to turn tight on very slow waves but putting your rear foot on the leash plug, since the tail wont sink under your weight while flat, but will still carve easily as the rails are quite thin (much thinner than a Sealion for instance). So an excellent board, but not for slashing, but for carving.

The AHD Sealion (I recommend the Pro or 8'3", the classic is a bit obsolete) will be great if you plan to sail it also. As a SUP, it will be a bit stiffer than a real SUP board, but by pushing strongly on your back foot, you can "hack 'n slash" great in slow conditions, but not with the same "rail to rail" flow as a real SUP design.

I don't know the Corran.

I have a Gong ONE, Gong Empire (similar to Final), and Gong AS currently in my van, and would use any of the 3 in wind waves sessions. The ONE if I plan a 1-hour intense session and I feel agressive, the AS if I am in a gliding/carving mood, and the Empire if I plan a longer session and keep all my options open.

Thanx Colas. A lot of food for thought there. So basically, a true mini Simmons is great for getting going in really small stuff, for connecting sections of the wave where I lose it today but maybe not very loose, am I right?
The 8.2 does seem very allround from your description and the homepgae and yet great in the conditions I'm mostly paddling in. At the same time, maybe I should reconsider the One. After all, the NahSkwell 7'8 had ridiculous row and I managed that OK as a total beginner. Now - a few years down the line - it shouldn't be a huge problem. What I'm really looking for in a board is a really loose feeling. It sounds like the One is what would give me that more than any other board. But do you reckon it's unforgiving and needs precise surfing? Considering the chop and rough waves, maybe I would need a similar shape but with softer rails up front to be a bit more forgiving if my technique is lacking?
I have been thinking about another custom...

The One is definitly the highest performing board for small waves I know, and people that bought it report the same.
It is not really "unforgiving" (they are quite stable laterally with their width). What happens is that, if you do not have your foot right on the kicktail, it will be hard to tighten top turns. Easier boards like the Gong Shake 7'4", with more tail rocker, will bank into the turn more easily, even if your foot is not on the leash plug... but they will be less fast, and not have the same acceleration. But the board will not make you fall, it will not "catch rails", it is absolutely not like the 25"-wide boards seen in contests now. At 53 and overweight, with moderate surfing abilities, I am able to manage a One, but not a 25"-wide board. Just that, if you are not going to have your foot on the leash plug, you will not be much more loose than a 8'2"

The front rails are quite slim, with volume for stability, but not boxy as to not block in the water while paddling.

If you surf, I could describe the Shake 7'4" as having a more "traditional 1985 thruster shortboard" feeling (when the boards had glide), and the One a modern "fishier" quad board. The Faking 6'11" is also a great option, similar actually to the current non-concave-tail-"Simmons" trend with a lot of glide for its size (like a "wombat"), but it has less volume and width than the others, so can be an issue depending on your weight/height.

It is difficult to advise more, not knowing you. I know prone surfers loved the One (so do I), but people coming from windsurfing with no surfing background often bought ultra short boards too early in their progression, mistakingly assuming that it was like in windsurfing where you need to go shorter as you progress, and were disappointed and resold them (they had not time to learn how to get the energy from the wave instead of the sail or paddle). And some people also found out that going too short was not worth the loss of paddling speed anyways (harder to move around on the spot). But, since I didn't manage to begin on a Sealion, I guess you may have the abilities for sub-7' boards.

PS: yes, a (Mini) Simmons requires to plan your turns more in advance than a traditional shape.

My board acquisitions are suspended do to funding issues. But the next board I get is gonna be a simsup.
The idea just sounds like to much fun.

Not sure of the details but Kirk has done some international distribution of his line, in pop outs.
Seems they'll be available my way this summer.

Many thanx Colas! Lots of advise there. I have to analyse my surfing a bit before I pull the trigger I think :-). I do come from windsurfing but I do wavesurf a bit too and can pump a shortboard on a small wave.
I think that high winds and chop are the hardest to cooe with a lot of the time. Knee starts can be the ticket in 30 knot winds sometimes. I envy all of you groundswell spoiled people. Must go travelling soon :-)

surfinJ, yes! Everybody should try the cocktail "wide planshape + fast rocker + shorter" from your favorite shaper/brand.

SUPerSwede, if you can pump a shortboard on a small wave, then you should have no problem mastering a very Short SUP.

I was looking to grab a custom/semi-custom board as part of my trip to the states over this past new year. I found out about Kirk and the Simsup while looking for shapers in Santa Cruz. Nervously I began our email conversation about what I wanted out of a board. It all came together over a couple of months, and a new S3 was waiting for me one morning in January when I drove into Santa Cruz. It was everything I had hoped for. The build was spot on. I ordered a travel bag at the same time, a purchase that no doubt helped minimise the extent of the damage from the over-zealous baggage handler who (witnessed while waiting to disembark in Perth) threw the board into the frame of the trailer.
Regarding the board, it's shorter than anything else I had ridden. With the shape and volume I have not found this too much of a challenge. It's a great and responsive board! Iv'e used it on shorebreaks, reef anything else in Perth that can hold a swell (bloody Rottnest!) and have a great time every time.
I've had a Shortboard friend of mine use this as his intro to Standup. Kirk is an absolute champ and made the whole process easy as. I'm back to the states next October, maybe another Simsup will be in order?

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BillyT said...


I was looking to grab a custom/semi-custom board as part of my trip to the states over this past new year. I found out about Kirk and the Simsup while looking for shapers in Santa Cruz. Nervously I began our email conversation about what I wanted out of a board. It all came together over a couple of months, and a new S3 was waiting for me one morning in January when I drove into Santa Cruz. It was everything I had hoped for. The build was spot on. I ordered a travel bag at the same time, a purchase that no doubt helped minimise the extent of the damage from the over-zealous baggage handler who (witnessed while waiting to disembark in Perth) threw the board into the frame of the trailer.
Regarding the board, it's shorter than anything else I had ridden. With the shape and volume I have not found this too much of a challenge. It's a great and responsive board! Iv'e used it on shorebreaks, reef anything else in Perth that can hold a swell (bloody Rottnest!) and have a great time every time.
I've had a Shortboard friend of mine use this as his intro to Standup. Kirk is an absolute champ and made the whole process easy as. I'm back to the states next October, maybe another Simsup will be in order?

Billy that board rocks! !! :) Kirk said they could ship to oz for around 4 to 5 hundred dollars. I'm really interested in the standard custom 8'10"x31" I think I'll wait for the hip replacement before I commit to buying one, but I'm almost certain I will buy frm them now. They are super nice and that board looks insane in shape and finish. I wish you lived in vicco so I could try it. Please give an in depth review on how it surfs please

Leroy it is a responsive and fun board.
Initially when I was looking at the shape I was a bit unsure. I did a bit of research and took the plunge.
The S3 has less rocker than I was used to so it took a bit of playing around until I got the hang of it, burying the nose a few times. Also this board responds well when you are using the rails, the concave and the deep k rails work well to make it a great ride. Despite the length and thinner volume on the nose I can still walk it a bit if I'm trying to get on. Planting your foot on the tail will make this board shine. I'd had a tail kick pad put on but hadn't really used it until my Shortboarder mate showed me how it's done.
If your not interested in doing too much on the wave it can easily be a very fast down the line board. You might find you'll have to stall yourself a bit if you want to stay near the action and not down the end. Using the rails and the vee bottom mean you'll stick into the steeper faces nicely.
With the build quality I haven't found fault. The EPS core has withstood my weight well enough, me being on the upper range of the recommended rider weight. No real drastic indents that I can see, the extra glassing likely stopping most of that.
The handle is a bit shallow, but from what I have seen Kirk has fixed this.
Kirk has his own fins made through Rainbow fins in Santa Cruz, the quad fins were really the only option for this board.
I had a carbon rail wrap added, which likely limited the damage from the baggage handlers who absolutely went to town on it. Unlucky for them I witnessed them do it while waiting to disembark.
Often my ambition in wave riding is more than my skill, however with the S3 I've been able to really progress my surfing. At 8ft though it can be some work in the chop. I wanted that size purely for some variety, and it was the right call for me for sure. No doubt you've seen the website (www.original-simsup.com), but if not it is worth a look.

Hi Billy, I actually saw you on their facebook or testimonial page. That is one stunning board. Can I ask how much you weigh. I'm around 100 kg and was wondering if I should go for the 8'8" at my size.. I hope the baggage handlers burn in hell. If you ever get any of you in the water/on a wave could you please post them? Cheers and thanks for that already!

The wife is in santa cruz ATM and saw a few of these boards out in the surf so she droped into the shop,told me to check them out.anyone know where i can see one in OZ