I didn't notice any extra water being pulled on exit. I have a fairly up and down style stroke, and try to keep my top hand high.

There seems to be less angle on the blade, so I'd suggest it's going to be less forgiving to pulling past your feet. The double dihedral isn't overly pronounced and very nicely faired, so I doubt it would hold much water when withdrawing it from the water.

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djgaffa said..
I didn't notice any extra water being pulled on exit. I have a fairly up and down style stroke, and try to keep my top hand high.

There seems to be less angle on the blade, so I'd suggest it's going to be less forgiving to pulling past your feet. The double dihedral isn't overly pronounced and very nicely faired, so I doubt it would hold much water when withdrawing it from the water.

The emphasis here would be to NOT pull back past your feet.

It would be interesting to see results where you measure the distance moved per stroke to see if cadence becomes an issue.
If you typically have a high stroke count that reduces using this paddle then that could be offset by the quality of each stroke
which is quantified by distance moved through the water per stroke.

Additionally one wonders if it is more suited to long distance stuff versus the powerful, explosive paddling required for surfing applications.

Cheers Ozzie

You are very right Ozzie...

I will certainly have to be conscious about pulling past my feet, but I am not too bad in that respect anyway.

When I say my cadence is lower, it's not by much at all, and the paddle pulls through the water with much less cavitation than the SB HA ...Much much less and smoother.

I'll hopefully get some time trials in soon and get a good comparison.

I'd chalk it up to marketing hype and exorbitant pricing, however... I got a quick paddle with a 91si V Drive. It's silky smooth on entry and exit, has an easy pull and amazing power. DJ, you were spot on, stealthy is the word. The V is very subtle and nothing like the posted "predecessors" pics and the profile is definitely not high aspect. I can't wait to compare it to the new high aspect Travis Grant QB Trifecta.

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baddog said..
I'd chalk it up to marketing hype and exorbitant pricing, however... I got a quick paddle with a 91si V Drive. It's silky smooth on entry and exit, has an easy pull and amazing power. DJ, you were spot on, stealthy is the word. The V is very subtle and nothing like the posted "predecessors" pics and the profile is definitely not high aspect. I can't wait to compare it to the new high aspect Travis Grant QB Trifecta.

According to the QB website the V drive is more surfing oriented whilst the Trifecta is geared for the longer downwind conditions reflecting who designed the paddles.

I would say at this point that since both paddles have equivalent price points they are to my mind prohibitively expensive. Whether they meet the specific needs of the person using them is something that no doubt will come out in time via reviews and the like.

Hi guys,

I've been using the V-Drive 91 for a few weeks now on and off between my Fanatic Pro carbon 7.25" There are some similarities between the paddles but not too many. My previous paddle for a year or so was the QB Magic 100 (which I loved)

The V-Drive is much stiffer than the Fanatic and the flex is mostly in the top of the shaft in the tapered section above the oval shaft. The palm handle is comfortable at first but I found after some extended use it started to blister my palms (or at least I think that's what caused it ) but only after 15km of pace training.

Entry and exit from the water is easy and quiet. The entry and catch is very similar in feel to the Fanatic but during the power phase, the V-Drive smokes the Fanatic. For a smallish blade, it pulls hard and any real input of power on the stroke is directly translated into forward speed. The first time I used it, on the first 20 strokes or so from a cold start I had a couple of sharp pains in the elbows, but it went away almost straight away and hasn't really been back.

At the end of the stroke and at the exit, it's not the same as the Fanatic. The Fanatic paddle seems to hold onto the water as though it is breaking free from a suction with the surface, there is none of that with the Quickblade, it exits easier. Swing weight is similar to the Fanatic and feathering feels no different.

The difference is there is no lag in power input to acceleration, it's very direct compared to the more refined smoothness and flex of the Fanatic, but the power is undoubtable, it's there and if you paddle hard, you'll feel it instantly. The few people who have tried it have been mixed in their reaction, some have loved it and been blown away whilst one other said they didn't like the stiffness.

In summary I'd say if you have good strength and can paddle hard, this is a paddle you really do have to try, it's pretty amazing. If you suffer from joint pain etc, the Fanatic will still be a better paddle. In my trials in training for the FW20, I did a few distance runs to compare speed and times and each time, the QB gave me a faster average speed and definitely faster acceleration. I chose not to use it in the FW20 because I love the neoprene covered QB handle I have in my Fanatic and it served me well for comfort. I feel I could have been faster but may have had VERY sore hands after more than 2 hours at pace. I will be using the QB in the Black Blade Sprint titles because it has what I think I'll need for that racing.

The V-Drive is expensive there's no doubt about it. We only bought one to see if it was a gimmick or not. After feedback from other paddlers and my own experience, we have placed an order for several more. They will sell, even at the top dollar because they have something other paddles don't. They have speed, light swing weight and big power. If you normally use a big blade, don't go with the bigger V-Drive unless you have tried it. I reckon the 91 pullas every bit as hard as the 100 Magic if not more efficiently.

Put this one on your "must try" list if you can aford it. If it's out of your budget, don't try it, it may cause dissatisfaction with your current paddle afterwards. Once my girly hands HTFU, I think you'll see it in my mits on more and more race days.

At the end of the day, the cost is high but it does deliver. The Fanatic beats the QB in terms of value for money at 2/3 of the price and I think I'll keep my Fanatic for DWing.

DM

To touch on a few comments ASWA / DM made, there's one thing I failed to mention previously. The 91 sq. in. V Drive I paddled and the one I have ordered, both have the Elite Flyweight shaft option. This narrow gauge prepreg shaft is only available for the 91 sq. in. V Drive. I paddle the 83 Sq. In. Elite Flyweight (great paddle) and I know the shaft well. This is a stiff responsive shaft, but most likely softer then either the round tapered or the oval tapered shafts. I found that the V Drive I tried had as easy of a catch as my Elite Flyweight but with bigger easy power and a smoother flex.

This narrow gauge shaft was previously limited to a maximum length of 78" (uncut 79"), but I was told that this limit has been lifted with the V Drives, so it should be available in longer lengths. I'll find out soon as I've ordered mine uncut. The other good news is that this shaft only comes with the soft and wonderful, P40 EVA grip.

One last interesting rumor; these new paddles are so good (V Drive and Trifecta), the Kanaha may be exiting the lineup.

Hi guys,

Thanks to the guys coming back with reviews. It is most helpful.

I have to say reading through them that I just dont get the impression that they are terrible overwhelming in performance.
Am I wrong here? I just dont get the feeling that there is much a huge wow factor here which is what one would expect
from a paddle that comes with a big reputation as it does. For that sort of money I would expect it to blow away the
competition and none of the reviews are suggestive of that in my opinion. It is encouraging that there are companies out
there which are hoping to push the boundaries in design and construction for we all benefit from that so it is perhaps pertinent
to give it more time.

Lets wait and see some more.

Ozzie

I think it's important not to expect too much of these new developments. There has not been the invention of some completely new manufacturing technology, nor a scientific breakthrough that would herald a completely different way of thinking about paddling, or even a totally new and highly effective way of paddling discovered trial-and -error by some young paddling prodigy. The new paddles coming to market are going to be refinements rather than revolutions.

Instead we might expect that paddles will become more specialised, in exactly the same way that boards have. They will offer particular advantages in certain paddling conditions and be tailored to specific uses and paddler characteristics. This is already happening of course. I have not tried the V Drive but it sounds like it may offer a distinct advantage for some paddlers in some conditions, and not so much for others. This is not a shortcoming. It's just that way things are going IMO.

There are already plenty of rather good paddles out there. If you take e.g. four paddles from different top manufacturers and trial them in perfectly flat water back to back and see what differences in speed are found, you will find that the differences in performance are tiny across different paddlers. It's more about finding one that suits you and suits what you like to do. At the moment most of the brands are trying to avoid being too prescriptive about the intended use or customer for their products - although this is happening with eg. Kialoa designating certain paddles surf paddles, or Quickblade giving recommended paddler weights for certain models. Obviously they don't want to be too ridiculously prescriptive because it will put people off and confuse them. But that is nevertheless the way that it is generally going. It will be about educating the customer-base as much as anything.

The intended customer for a high-end product like the V-Drive will probably already have a pretty clear idea of what they want from a paddle, and they probably won't be expecting miracles. But they will have tried enough paddles to know if his particular one offers enough of an advantage to warrant the cost. For most paddlers the answer will probably be "no". But for some, this might be exactly what they are looking for.

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ghost4man said..

I have to say reading through them that I just dont get the impression that they are terrible overwhelming in performance.
Am I wrong here?

Ozzie

Maybe you skipped over my first post? I was a total skeptic then ran out and ordered one. Awesome is the word.

Area 10, I agree that the V Drive is just an evolution, but it is not about specialization, the Trifecta will be a "specialized" paddle. Lots of good paddles for sure and I always wished I could have Kialoa oval shafts in my Quickblades. I wasn't shopping for a paddle or looking for particular characteristics. Someone put the paddle in my hand, said don't look at it, just paddle. A miracle, no, a wow moment, absolutely.

I've had three Quickblade paddles with oval shafts for about a year now. That's nothing new. The tapered oval shaft was first offered as an option for the Elite Race range. I have one of those plus two Slim Jim's (in different blade sizes) all with oval shafts. One of them has the neoprene covered handle as well.

The V Drive maybe something new but that newness is not in the shaft it's just the blade.

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Area10 said..

I think it's important not to expect too much of these new developments. There has not been the invention of some completely new manufacturing technology, nor a scientific breakthrough that would herald a completely different way of thinking about paddling, or even a totally new and highly effective way of paddling discovered trial-and -error by some young paddling prodigy. The new paddles coming to market are going to be refinements rather than revolutions.

Instead we might expect that paddles will become more specialised, in exactly the same way that boards have. They will offer particular advantages in certain paddling conditions and be tailored to specific uses and paddler characteristics. This is already happening of course. I have not tried the V Drive but it sounds like it may offer a distinct advantage for some paddlers in some conditions, and not so much for others. This is not a shortcoming. It's just that way things are going IMO.

There are already plenty of rather good paddles out there. If you take e.g. four paddles from different top manufacturers and trial them in perfectly flat water back to back and see what differences in speed are found, you will find that the differences in performance are tiny across different paddlers. It's more about finding one that suits you and suits what you like to do. At the moment most of the brands are trying to avoid being too prescriptive about the intended use or customer for their products - although this is happening with eg. Kialoa designating certain paddles surf paddles, or Quickblade giving recommended paddler weights for certain models. Obviously they don't want to be too ridiculously prescriptive because it will put people off and confuse them. But that is nevertheless the way that it is generally going. It will be about educating the customer-base as much as anything.

The intended customer for a high-end product like the V-Drive will probably already have a pretty clear idea of what they want from a paddle, and they probably won't be expecting miracles. But they will have tried enough paddles to know if his particular one offers enough of an advantage to warrant the cost. For most paddlers the answer will probably be "no". But for some, this might be exactly what they are looking for.

Area10 you make some interesting points in your above post.

Let me just say from the outset that I would suggest that there is something at least of a tacit understanding between the seller and the buyer that an expectation exists for both parties. To somehow posit that one should *not* expect too much from a product in terms of development is bordering on the naive because it precludes evolutionary pressures which offer the opportunity for geometric growth that seems to be always coupled with a hefty price tag. It is the nature of the proverbial beast that a customer already has the mindset that when they pay above the normal price point, the product will deliver in spades simply because they equate pricing with expectation. In simpler terms one does not pay peanuts and as a reasonable person with insight and awareness, expect a top end product. It just does not work like that in the real world.

There is no doubt that the V Drive falls into the bracket of a product which promises a lot in performance. That is reflected in the price tag which to be fair is subjectively quite high. Is it generationally transformational when compared to similarly priced paddles (if in fact there are paddles which are priced to the same level)? That is a question that I will leave to those who are well placed to make such an informed perspective.

Prescriptions aside, just as paddles are going through a period of growth and evolution, the well informed paddler is becoming more intelligent and savvy in terms of what they want and essentially speaking what they expect from the product that they purchase. This will no doubt result in manufacturers pushing the envelope in terms of delivery of a product that attempts to break out of the traditional paradigm and become something that sets it apart from the rest of the crow.

Baddog your first post I believe was the following:

I'd chalk it up to marketing hype and exorbitant pricing, however... I got a quick paddle with a 91si V Drive. It's silky smooth on entry and exit, has an easy pull and amazing power. DJ, you were spot on, stealthy is the word. The V is very subtle and nothing like the posted "predecessors" pics and the profile is definitely not high aspect. I can't wait to compare it to the new high aspect Travis Grant QB Trifecta.

There was nothing in that post, at least as I understand it, that led one to come to the conclusion that we are talking about a product with the wow factor especially when balanced with the caveat that prefaced your post where you basically admitted you were influenced by pricing.

Cheers

Ghost4man - products don't show a linear relationship between cost and performance. The higher up the scale you get the more you have to pay for ever smaller improvements. So a 100k Porsche is going to be a whole lot faster than a 10k Ford and the difference in price is 90k. But a 500k Ferrari is not going to be that much faster than the Porsche despite the price difference being 400k. And so it is with boards and paddles.

The V Drive is extremely expensive but it's not that much more expensive than some of the other top offerings out there (some already by QB). It's pretty easy though: if you think it's too expensive to be worth it, then don't buy it. Most people would never dream of spending that kind of money on a "spoon", as my prone surfer friends are now calling SUP paddles.

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Area10 said..

Ghost4man - products don't show a linear relationship between cost and performance. The higher up the scale you get the more you have to pay for ever smaller improvements. So a 100k Porsche is going to be a whole lot faster than a 10k Ford and the difference in price is 90k. But a 500k Ferrari is not going to be that much faster than the Porsche despite the price difference being 400k. And so it is with boards and paddles.

The V Drive is extremely expensive but it's not that much more expensive than some of the other top offerings out there (some already by QB). It's pretty easy though: if you think it's too expensive to be worth it, then don't buy it. Most people would never dream of spending that kind of money on a "spoon", as my prone surfer friends are now calling SUP paddles.

Area10 - It would be nice to think that an arithmetic progression at least, or perhaps the odd geometric advancement would manifest in tangible outcomes but that is simply not the case. However, and this is the point that I have made, the expectation in *mindset* is what drives the show and is precisely what the manufacturers hope for.

Let me ask you the following: How many times have you seen a board where the previous model has been utilised in the current iteration with little to no physical adjustments being made and yet the manufacturers go to the trouble of changing the colour scheme with the explicit intention of creating the perception that the board has somehow changed, with the tacit understanding that changing time has translated into a newer board with new features and more advanced performance? It happens all the time my friend. They do this for a reason. I wont go into the dynamics of nudge psychology which I am sure a person of your intellect would have some cursory understanding, sufficed to say they know that specific marketing techniques work to great effect.

As you rightly point out, the V drive is very very expensive and with that comes an inherent expectation that it will deliver. It would be inappropriate of me to comment in the absence of any personal trial but that does not obviate me from making commentary here.

I do appreciate your sensible perspective.

Cheers

Hey guys,

Price is irrelevant when considering something so personal as a paddle. You need to try paddles properly in your real conditions. In racing at the upper echelons of performance, races are won after up to 20km distance, by seconds.
If two paddlers are equally fast and run the same boards and a paddle like the V-Drive gives you even a 1% increase in speed, is it worth it? Damn straight it is! Is it worth a learner buying one straight off the bat? Hell no, they won't get enough from it.

The V-Drive paddle is targeted at paddlers looking for performance gains. Any improvement is going to help.

I think they are worth it, but certainly not for everyone.

As always, demo, demo, demo!

DM

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ActionSportsWA said..

Hey guys,

Price is irrelevant when considering something so personal as a paddle. You need to try paddles properly in your real conditions. In racing at the upper echelons of performance, races are won after up to 20km distance, by seconds.
If two paddlers are equally fast and run the same boards and a paddle like the V-Drive gives you even a 1% increase in speed, is it worth it? Damn straight it is! Is it worth a learner buying one straight off the bat? Hell no, they won't get enough from it.

The V-Drive paddle is targeted at paddlers looking for performance gains. Any improvement is going to help.

I think they are worth it, but certainly not for everyone.

As always, demo, demo, demo!

DM

Only someone who is in sales would opine that "price is irrelevant". Your summary reads like a well thought advertising proposal appealing to a prospective buyer who remains unsure and yet is lured by the interest of that "magical" one per cent increase in performance. So even if the paddle fails to perform to complete expectation the advertiser always knows that the buyer will somehow convince themselves that they were justified in paying the exorbitant expense in order to appease the sub conscious mind. Its nudge psychology at its best teasing the buyer into entrapment but deluding them in thinking that they have had freedom of choice.

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ghost4man said..

ActionSportsWA said..

Hey guys,

Price is irrelevant when considering something so personal as a paddle. You need to try paddles properly in your real conditions. In racing at the upper echelons of performance, races are won after up to 20km distance, by seconds.
If two paddlers are equally fast and run the same boards and a paddle like the V-Drive gives you even a 1% increase in speed, is it worth it? Damn straight it is! Is it worth a learner buying one straight off the bat? Hell no, they won't get enough from it.

The V-Drive paddle is targeted at paddlers looking for performance gains. Any improvement is going to help.

I think they are worth it, but certainly not for everyone.

As always, demo, demo, demo!

DM

Only someone who is in sales would opine that "price is irrelevant". Your summary reads like a well thought advertising proposal appealing to a prospective buyer who remains unsure and yet is lured by the interest of that "magical" one per cent increase in performance. So even if the paddle fails to perform to complete expectation the advertiser always knows that the buyer will somehow convince themselves that they were justified in paying the exorbitant expense in order to appease the sub conscious mind. Its nudge psychology at its best teasing the buyer into entrapment but deluding them in thinking that they have had freedom of choice.

action sportswa review is very good. i've have used the v drive training and yes a strong paddle but prefer the the fanatic pro carbon 7.25. i find it a pretty strong paddle i can rate up and i feel i could use this paddle longer with less fatigue than the v drive. its very good and it comes down to personal preference imo


the qb trifecta is a step up again in power, but you need to be very good

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ghost4man said..

ActionSportsWA said..

Hey guys,

Price is irrelevant when considering something so personal as a paddle. You need to try paddles properly in your real conditions. In racing at the upper echelons of performance, races are won after up to 20km distance, by seconds.
If two paddlers are equally fast and run the same boards and a paddle like the V-Drive gives you even a 1% increase in speed, is it worth it? Damn straight it is! Is it worth a learner buying one straight off the bat? Hell no, they won't get enough from it.

The V-Drive paddle is targeted at paddlers looking for performance gains. Any improvement is going to help.

I think they are worth it, but certainly not for everyone.

As always, demo, demo, demo!

DM

Only someone who is in sales would opine that "price is irrelevant". Your summary reads like a well thought advertising proposal appealing to a prospective buyer who remains unsure and yet is lured by the interest of that "magical" one per cent increase in performance. So even if the paddle fails to perform to complete expectation the advertiser always knows that the buyer will somehow convince themselves that they were justified in paying the exorbitant expense in order to appease the sub conscious mind. Its nudge psychology at its best teasing the buyer into entrapment but deluding them in thinking that they have had freedom of choice.

Seriously? Please re-read my post. I don't suggest for a minute this paddle will suit everyone, and I'm not saying anyone should rush out and buy one. I am hoping to get across my personal experience with the paddle, as someone who has, and does use one and can see the benefits to me as a paddler. Hopefully others who are interested in high end paddles may also find the same benefits. My post is to intrigue people enough to demo one for themselves. If they then like it, they may then consider whether the blade is worth the money, or not.

In my first review of the paddle I recommend the Fanatic paddle as a much better value paddle and much more suitable for the majority of paddlers.

I am a retailer, but I am first and foremost a very passionate paddler whom rather excitedly shares my findings with others in hope that they may also gain that some stoke I find in what I write about.

If you can't afford a QB V-Drive or don't like my post, fine! No need to cast aspersions about my intentions or posts.

DM

I finally got my 91si V-Drive and it's a big step up in power from my 83si Flyweights. Apologies to djgaffa, this paddle is definitely high aspect, I just didn't notice it in my one minute demo. If you decide to get one, make sure to cut it longer then your standard length paddle. A great paddle for racing and touring, but because of the high aspect and overall longer length, I don't think it's suited for strictly surfing and that's ditto for the Trifecta as well. Although I did get mine with the Elite Flyweight shaft, it seems they've already pulled this option and it will only be available (Elite Flyweight Shaft) as a custom order from Quickblade (that's what my dealer told me). Mine weighs 15oz cut to 77" and that's with tape on the blade. So if you're looking for a smooth, easy, put the power down paddle, this one fits the bill.

ActionsportsWA,

It is inconceivable that there will ever be a time when one paddle will suit all disciplines given the personal nature of paddling. However, it is difficult in your position to not appear as if you are being strictly motivated by self interest by framing your words in such a manner as to evoke intrigue in the potential buyer. In saying this I am not suggesting, although it may seem that way, that you are being disingenuous in your advice. It works both ways, for whilst there are many sellers out there who do in fact furnish reviews suggesting that the product gives more than what it does, ultimately this becomes self defeating when the consumer has right to final judgement. Am hoping to have a chance to demo one shortly so will post back my own thoughts.

Cheers Ozzie