Just mucking around with fins again ...brought 2 sets of shapers...one set with five fins ,other with 4 ,a bargain at $100 a set ...the five set .carbon flare ...had bigger side fins than my original Naish fins .8 instead of 7. 'S .the rear fin wais small compared to the 6.5 Naish rear fin .but put them in and headed out ,I thought I was going to be spinning out with such a small rear fin ...but the opposite ....so I now feel the stiffness of the board is very much decided on what side fins are put on .I did paddle in and push the rear fin up ,and got my looseness back again ...jus cruising ,the fins felt the same ,but when you started turning and throwing the board around ,after market fin really do make a huge difference ,more speed ,and just a nice feel with the slightly flex of the carbon over glass fins .

With the bigger sides I did manage to make it around a few sections ,over the smaller original side fins .and did liven up on the bigger waves .

The second set to try tomorrow will be the super light honey comb quads .core - lite.

any experience and ideas on combos are welcome .with your past experiences .I'm a bit of a newbie at the after market
fins ,but so far are liking the full set change ...before I would only change 2 .the very small rear really improves the nose snapping back around .

Here are the fins Im trying out .Enjoying the extra performance .Its almost like owing another board .It makes so much difference .

It's always fun to try different fins to change things up.

A few years ago, I was trying to loosen up a few boards, so I threw in some really long based, big sidebites and ran a few boards as twin fins.
They had surprising drive and bite in some steep head high waves... but still really made the boards loose and snappy.
I never noticed a need for a 3rd center fin. I abandoned that experiment when I got into more performance boards.

The fins were all Futures, so the boxes could handle the large area of the fins.
All of my boards now, run FCS boxes, so I haven't tried the big twins lately.

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
any experience and ideas on combos are welcome .with your past experiences .

C-Drives, of course!
Not everybody like them, but you should definitely try them. Use their sizing chart to find the ones for your weight.
I find a thruster C-Drive set gives you the drive of a quad and the control of a thruster, plus the insane boost in turns.

If you like big sides, the Harley Ingleby sets are interesting, with a thin profile to reduce drag at speed on these huge side fins (same size as MR twins). For instance I didn't like the Gerry Lopez fins, too slow, but the HI have no such drag

Also, I like sides with inside foils, I find they offer the less drag in turns, and helps keep speed in turns. My ideal combo would be C-Drives with inside foils...

I also have discovered the S-Wings www.s-wings.surf/en/ the opposite of C-Drives: C-Drives deliver instant power, I love them on short boards (7') where I push a lot on the legs. Normal fins are more balanced, I use them on longer boards (7'6"), and I use S-Wings on boards I carve on: minigun (8'+) shapes with thin tails and rails, for the smooth drive and "shock absorber" for the absolute "deep powder carves" and "I will help you tackle anything" feelings. I use the Harley Ingleby on my noserider long SUPs (9+), but I plan to experiment with S-Wings on them too.

Nice twin supthecreek....also a pin tail be fun in smaller waves ..

colas..yeah the big 8's I have they are super thin too and very flexy .but it's good with the small rear .
i do like the way you can ride the wave high .and it still feels pretty loose ...because I has the x32 Hokua .it is
wide and it does work well.with the big sides...
It seems funny how I'm using the same fins as my surfboard ( that doesn't get used anymore)....yet riding a bigger board....?
i guess it is a lot to do with your weight .

but wow ...the original fins will be wall hangers from now on .

thanks for the cool vids.

I recently bought a set of the C Drives for my 8'6" JP surf pro and love them so much I've ordered a set for my Sunova Acid too.


Not only great fins but great service and advice from Troy the guy that sells them here in Oz.

cdrivefins.com/

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Slack said..
Not only great fins but great service and advice from Troy the guy that sells them here in Oz.

cdrivefins.com/

Yes, do not hesitate to contact him, he can arrange easily custom orders, spare fins...
The free shipping worldwide is great!

x 2....I've bought a few sets of C-Drives from Troy & the service has always spot on (a big fat thumbs up) & the fins work a treat!

I love a bit of fin porn. I'm a big fan of a smaller rear fin in a thruster setup. I find it really loose but with just enough bite to stop you spinning out on hard cutbacks. I've also used a double zigfin for the rear fin which works well (and even double zigfins as the rears in a set of quads). I don't really bother when it gets big but generally if I do go out I replace the rear fin with a standard thruster fin for bigger waves or the board is just too loose.

I like the idea of trying c-drives but they don't appear to do futures which is a shame.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Tardy said..
any experience and ideas on combos are welcome .with your past experiences .

C-Drives, of course!
Not everybody like them, but you should definitely try them. Use their sizing chart to find the ones for your weight.
I find a thruster C-Drive set gives you the drive of a quad and the control of a thruster, plus the insane boost in turns.

If you like big sides, the Harley Ingleby sets are interesting, with a thin profile to reduce drag at speed on these huge side fins (same size as MR twins). For instance I didn't like the Gerry Lopez fins, too slow, but the HI have no such drag

Also, I like sides with inside foils, I find they offer the less drag in turns, and helps keep speed in turns. My ideal combo would be C-Drives with inside foils...

I also have discovered the S-Wings www.s-wings.surf/en/ the opposite of C-Drives: C-Drives deliver instant power, I love them on short boards (7') where I push a lot on the legs. Normal fins are more balanced, I use them on longer boards (7'6"), and I use S-Wings on boards I carve on: minigun (8'+) shapes with thin tails and rails, for the smooth drive and "shock absorber" for the absolute "deep powder carves" and "I will help you tackle anything" feelings. I use the Harley Ingleby on my noserider long SUPs (9+), but I plan to experiment with S-Wings on them too.

Hi Colas
I agree with c-drive fins (I have some), but I have never heard of the s-wings till now - so you only use them on your smaller boards is that right, and what about drage - do you notice any?, and have you heard of Power Base Fins and have you tried them ?:-)
thanks :-)

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Johndesu said..
Hi Colas
I agree with c-drive fins (I have some), but I have never heard of the s-wings till now - so you only use them on your smaller boards is that right, and what about drage - do you notice any?, and have you heard of Power Base Fins and have you tried them ?:-)
thanks :-)

You mean C-Drive or S-Wings?

C-Drive: I feel a bit of drag. The added power when you push on them totally makes up for it, but I feel is not worth it on boards you carve on the rail, the 8+ for me. They can be of use on longer boards for their reliability at high speed (the small chord on the tip will not foil), note that a lot of tow riders (such as Maurice Cole) are hooked to C-Drive for this reason. The drag is not very important however, similar for me to any flat-inside-foil fin. But present compared to inside-foiled fins like the FCS nexus.

S-Wings: they are only commercially available since October, and are French made. When you push hard on them they flex, so for instance, on my first bottom turn on my 7'3" I felt like stopping dead in the water, but on my 8'4" i felt the board gathering speed progressively. I did not feel any drag, the foil seems well refined. I guess that to use them in short boards needs adapting one's technique, with a more progressive leg push. If Tom Curren can ride a skimboard with them, it can be done :-)
They were developped at first (right pic) for big wave guns, with very long (2') "arms" for reliability in hellish conditions (chop). But the current version (left pic) works in any size.

SPACEY....they really are different.the photo really shows the length ....of them...interesting,

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colas said..

Johndesu said..
Hi Colas
I agree with c-drive fins (I have some), but I have never heard of the s-wings till now - so you only use them on your smaller boards is that right, and what about drage - do you notice any?, and have you heard of Power Base Fins and have you tried them ?:-)
thanks :-)

You mean C-Drive or S-Wings?

C-Drive: I feel a bit of drag. The added power when you push on them totally makes up for it, but I feel is not worth it on boards you carve on the rail, the 8+ for me. They can be of use on longer boards for their reliability at high speed (the small chord on the tip will not foil), note that a lot of tow riders (such as Maurice Cole) are hooked to C-Drive for this reason. The drag is not very important however, similar for me to any flat-inside-foil fin. But present compared to inside-foiled fins like the FCS nexus.

S-Wings: they are only commercially available since October, and are French made. When you push hard on them they flex, so for instance, on my first bottom turn on my 7'3" I felt like stopping dead in the water, but on my 8'4" i felt the board gathering speed progressively. I did not feel any drag, the foil seems well refined. I guess that to use them in short boards needs adapting one's technique, with a more progressive leg push. If Tom Curren can ride a skimboard with them, it can be done :-)
They were developped at first (right pic) for big wave guns, with very long (2') "arms" for reliability in hellish conditions (chop). But the current version (left pic) works in any size.

Ok thanks for the info & photos colas. Have you heard of or tried "Power Base Fins" ?:-)

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Johndesu said..

Ok thanks for the info & photos colas. Have you heard of or tried "Power Base Fins" ?:-)

Nope.

Went to their web site http://powerbasefins.com.au/ and it definitively seems like an interesting concept.

However, one of the best thing that happened in the removal fins ecosystem is the FCSII box. The base stiffness gained is unbelievable and is sensible on the water, compared to FCS1 and even futures (I always found the future fins I had were having some lateral looseness in their boxes). Alas, FCS forbids 3rd-party fins so you are limited to their fins.

This is to say that fins in the FCS1 system, like C-Drives, S-Wings, and powerbase must have advantages that will offset the huge drawback of not being available in FCSII, and often not having inside foil, which is harder to produce. I my opinion, it is the case of the S-Wings, it is still a bit the case of the C-Drive (I must confess I tend now also to use FCS Performers on my boards with FCSII boxes rather than C-Drives), but I doubt the advantages of the powerbase could be sufficient.

Actually, by thinking of it, my ideal fin would be a combination of the best features I found in different fins:
- the outline of the C-Drive
- the inside foil of FCS or Future fins
- maybe the gradual toe-in angle of the future fins, or some flex in the tip of the angle of attack (but no sideways flex) like the S-Wings
- the winglet tip of the "speed wings" (in a less crude version), that worked well but the rest of the fin was average
- a strong box connection, FCSII or probox.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Johndesu said..

Ok thanks for the info & photos colas. Have you heard of or tried "Power Base Fins" ?:-)

Nope.

Went to their web site http://powerbasefins.com.au/ and it definitively seems like an interesting concept.

However, one of the best thing that happened in the removal fins ecosystem is the FCSII box. The base stiffness gained is unbelievable and is sensible on the water, compared to FCS1 and even futures (I always found the future fins I had were having some lateral looseness in their boxes). Alas, FCS forbids 3rd-party fins so you are limited to their fins.

This is to say that fins in the FCS1 system, like C-Drives, S-Wings, and powerbase must have advantages that will offset the huge drawback of not being available in FCSII, and often not having inside foil, which is harder to produce. I my opinion, it is the case of the S-Wings, it is still a bit the case of the C-Drive (I must confess I tend now also to use FCS Performers on my boards with FCSII boxes rather than C-Drives), but I doubt the advantages of the powerbase could be sufficient.

Actually, by thinking of it, my ideal fin would be a combination of the best features I found in different fins:
- the outline of the C-Drive
- the inside foil of FCS or Future fins
- maybe the gradual toe-in angle of the future fins, or some flex in the tip of the angle of attack (but no sideways flex) like the S-Wings
- the winglet tip of the "speed wings" (in a less crude version), that worked well but the rest of the fin was average
- a strong box connection, FCSII or probox.

Yes I think the same, also I have found some futures boxes do have a firm fit & some others do not so FCS 1 system will have to do for now, and also what do you think of the Nexus Fin (H3) which is not available any more & also the old H2 fins - I find them the fastest / less drag then anything else (also excellent in a quad & 5 fin set-up on almost any board?:-)

Ah yes, the nexus H3 were my favorite in the "traditional" fin shape. Very refined foil, and great construction, gave a very fluid and smooth feeling in turns. I didn't like the H2 as they were too small for my weight.
But for me the new "Performer" FCS line is as good as the H3.

I must say I didn't try the Carver or Accelerator line, as they do not exist in XL sizes, so i cannot speak of the differences in these new FCS fin lines.

Nor did I tried a lot of "normal" fins, as I was so satisfied when I discovered the first FCS fins with inside foil, I did not bother trying any fin in traditional shape with flat sides. The exception is the Harley Ingleby set, flat sides but huge size with thin profile, an interesting combo for a thruster setup on a noserider SUP where the slight drag is not an issue.

Yes Jhon, Colas;

H3, H2 and Beachley FCS fins models works good on shortSUP also C-Drive do it too. As well the TC red line ... all those fins templates are wide base and shallow tips or fin templates have narrow tip like C-Drive or TC ones. All those fins template have a common denominator which is to be compact and reactive .

To my opinion the reason why they work better on wide tail board and therefore SUPboard is the fact that the distance between your back foot and side fin has to be the shorter as possible.

So as compact but still functional as possible the side fin have to provide efficiency to dig the rail and board planning aera with the less back foot pressure as possible.

Also advantage of those fin systems of shallow fin is to have less drag so getting faster.

Last input is about fin toe of all these fins H2, NEXUS, C-Drive, TC: As SUP tail board are wide, no need to have toe get the board loose and maneuverable. I already demo on my own board that zero toe give more drive and stay very loose.

Select to expand quote

colas said..
Ah yes, the nexus H3 were my favorite in the "traditional" fin shape. Very refined foil, and great construction, gave a very fluid and smooth feeling in turns. I didn't like the H2 as they were too small for my weight.
But for me the new "Performer" FCS line is as good as the H3.

I must say I didn't try the Carver or Accelerator line, as they do not exist in XL sizes, so i cannot speak of the differences in these new FCS fin lines.

Nor did I tried a lot of "normal" fins, as I was so satisfied when I discovered the first FCS fins with inside foil, I did not bother trying any fin in traditional shape with flat sides. The exception is the Harley Ingleby set, flat sides but huge size with thin profile, an interesting combo for a thruster setup on a noserider SUP where the slight drag is not an issue.

Oh so you think the new performer is as good as the H3 - I will have to look into that, I recently lost one of my side H3 fins the other day, I also will have a look at the Harley Ingleby set because I have not heard of them :-)

Select to expand quote

Kami said..
Yes Jhon;

H3, H2 and Beachley FCS fins models works good on shortSUP also C-Drive do it too. As well the TC red line ... all those fins templates are wide base and shallow tips or fin templates have narrow tip like C-Drive or TC ones. All those fins template have a common denominator which is to be compact and reactive .

To my opinion the reason why they work better on wide tail board and therefore SUPboard is the fact that the distance between your back foot and side fin has to be the shorter as possible.

So as compact but still functional as possible the side fin have to provide efficiency to dig the rail and board planning aera with the less back foot pressure as possible.

Also advantage of those fin systems of shallow fin is to have less drag so getting faster.

Last input is about fin toe of all these fins H2, NEXUS, C-Drive, TC: As SUP tail board are wide, no need to have toe get the board loose and maneuverable. I already demo on my own board that zero toe give more drive and stay very loose.

Yes Kami I have all those fins and I use different fins on different boards in different conditions - but I have not yet found the perfect set-up, also I do not know of the Beachley FCS fins which I will look into also :-)

Im still searching ,the 8 sides are way to big for my short board .I had trouble getting down the wave ..back to the short fins ,,,I need to mix them
up a bit to find a good combo.
I should be able to find something out of 10 fins .
the rear quad ones are smoothed on both edges can they be used as front sides .I guess they won't hold as good a line on the face .??
any ideas.

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

Kami said..
Yes Jhon;

H3, H2 and Beachley FCS fins models works good on shortSUP also C-Drive do it too. As well the TC red line ... all those fins templates are wide base and shallow tips or fin templates have narrow tip like C-Drive or TC ones. All those fins template have a common denominator which is to be compact and reactive .

To my opinion the reason why they work better on wide tail board and therefore SUPboard is the fact that the distance between your back foot and side fin has to be the shorter as possible.

So as compact but still functional as possible the side fin have to provide efficiency to dig the rail and board planning aera with the less back foot pressure as possible.

Also advantage of those fin systems of shallow fin is to have less drag so getting faster.

Last input is about fin toe of all these fins H2, NEXUS, C-Drive, TC: As SUP tail board are wide, no need to have toe get the board loose and maneuverable. I already demo on my own board that zero toe give more drive and stay very loose.

Yes Kami I have all those fins and I use different fins on different boards in different conditions - but I have not yet found the perfect set-up, also I do not know of the Beachley FCS fins which I will look into also :-)

Beachley fins have the H2 template or very similar without the extra toe but still same extra cant. Hard to find even in second hand market.

I reckon this before mucking around fins; have to think twice about fins positions too ( rear fin distance, toe and cant..) don't mind to drill extra FCS X2 plugs and find out the perfect fin and its perfect position.

Select to expand quote

Tardy said...

With the bigger sides I did manage to make it around a few sections ,over the smaller original side fins .and did liven up on the bigger waves .

Smaller fins in bigger waves are better. Bigger fins in small waves give more drive and feel faster. In big waves the bigger fins give too much lift making it hard to bury a rail at speed. I always try to use the smallest fins I can to try make the big feckn pieces of foam we ride turn. Nothing better than sliding the tail in snaps.

Select to expand quote

hilly said..

Tardy said...

With the bigger sides I did manage to make it around a few sections ,over the smaller original side fins .and did liven up on the bigger waves .

Smaller fins in bigger waves are better. Bigger fins in small waves give more drive and feel faster. In big waves the bigger fins give too much lift making it hard to bury a rail at speed. I always try to use the smallest fins I can to try make the big feckn pieces of foam we ride turn. Nothing better than sliding the tail in snaps.

Yep, minimize the size of fins on those big board make it more fun to ride. Less of total areas of tail and fins in water contact faster is the riding.

For fun try the FCS II MR Twinnies. Worked well in my biggest board - my King's 9'4" 130 liter "Monsterpiece".

Select to expand quote

Kami said..

hilly said..

Tardy said...

With the bigger sides I did manage to make it around a few sections ,over the smaller original side fins .and did liven up on the bigger waves .

Smaller fins in bigger waves are better. Bigger fins in small waves give more drive and feel faster. In big waves the bigger fins give too much lift making it hard to bury a rail at speed. I always try to use the smallest fins I can to try make the big feckn pieces of foam we ride turn. Nothing better than sliding the tail in snaps.

Yep, minimize the size of fins on those big board make it more fun to ride. Less of total areas of tail and fins in water contact faster is the riding.

Thanks guys ..small it is ...what about the question of using rear fins on the front .without the flat sides .( supplied with the five fin pack)

Im guessing it s a No No ...why.....will the board slide more . Or not have enough grab on the face of the wave .

Select to expand quote

Kami said..

Johndesu said..

Kami said..
Yes Jhon;

H3, H2 and Beachley FCS fins models works good on shortSUP also C-Drive do it too. As well the TC red line ... all those fins templates are wide base and shallow tips or fin templates have narrow tip like C-Drive or TC ones. All those fins template have a common denominator which is to be compact and reactive .

To my opinion the reason why they work better on wide tail board and therefore SUPboard is the fact that the distance between your back foot and side fin has to be the shorter as possible.

So as compact but still functional as possible the side fin have to provide efficiency to dig the rail and board planning aera with the less back foot pressure as possible.

Also advantage of those fin systems of shallow fin is to have less drag so getting faster.

Last input is about fin toe of all these fins H2, NEXUS, C-Drive, TC: As SUP tail board are wide, no need to have toe get the board loose and maneuverable. I already demo on my own board that zero toe give more drive and stay very loose.

Yes Kami I have all those fins and I use different fins on different boards in different conditions - but I have not yet found the perfect set-up, also I do not know of the Beachley FCS fins which I will look into also :-)

Beachley fins have the H2 template or very similar without the extra toe but still same extra cant. Hard to find even in second hand market.

I reckon this before mucking around fins; have to think twice about fins positions too ( rear fin distance, toe and cant..) don't mind to drill extra FCS X2 plugs and find out the perfect fin and its perfect position.

Ok thanks for the info, I also tend to modify / sand my fins as required some times :-)

Select to expand quote

colas said..
Ah yes, the nexus H3 were my favorite in the "traditional" fin shape. Very refined foil, and great construction, gave a very fluid and smooth feeling in turns. I didn't like the H2 as they were too small for my weight.
But for me the new "Performer" FCS line is as good as the H3.

I must say I didn't try the Carver or Accelerator line, as they do not exist in XL sizes, so i cannot speak of the differences in these new FCS fin lines.

Nor did I tried a lot of "normal" fins, as I was so satisfied when I discovered the first FCS fins with inside foil, I did not bother trying any fin in traditional shape with flat sides. The exception is the Harley Ingleby set, flat sides but huge size with thin profile, an interesting combo for a thruster setup on a noserider SUP where the slight drag is not an issue.

Also I have just seen the "Quantum fin" on line (not yet available I think) which you might be interested in looking at colas :-)

Select to expand quote

Tardy said..
Thanks guys ..small it is ...what about the question of using rear fins on the front .without the flat sides .( supplied with the five fin pack)

If the internal foil is convex (i.e. a 80/20 or 50/50 foil), do not use them as front sides in a quad or thruster setup, you will lose traction in the start of the turns. Not pleasant.

They are great however in 2+1 setups as "sidebites" to a bigger (7"-9") center fin where the grip is provided by the center fin and the sides act more as stabilizers and let the center in dominate. And of course as rear fins in quads, where you want the front sides to dominate.

Kami could tell us however if they would be good as front fins in a "Twinzer" setup, where I guess you want the rear fins to dominate the ride.

PS: On smaller fins for by waves, I agree. Also because longer boards for big waves have thinner rails (volume being distributed on a longer length), and the rails become the dominant grip force, the fins acting more as stabilizers and should let the rails do their work.

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..
Also I have just seen the "Quantum fin" on line (not yet available I think) which you might be interested in looking at colas :-)

Interesting, especially the video where he explains the evolution of the design. Note how he is progressively tending to a C-Drive outline :-)

Anyways, I think his "scientific" explanations are bull****. What he discovered is that moving the center fin of a thruster close to the sides loosens the ride.
Or you can get your "quantum" setup by just moving the sides aft and center front on a thruster setup. I loved this setup on a thin 9'11": insane pivot and looseness, and the lack of drive wasnt really an issue on a board with long and thin rails to rely on in the size:



And note that you can add another FCS box to get 3 positions for the center fin: (one one the ideas I am proud to have given to Gong):

Select to expand quote

colas said..

Tardy said..
Thanks guys ..small it is ...what about the question of using rear fins on the front .without the flat sides .( supplied with the five fin pack)

If the internal foil is convex (i.e. a 80/20 or 50/50 foil), do not use them as front sides in a quad or thruster setup, you will lose traction in the start of the turns. Not pleasant.

They are great however in 2+1 setups as "sidebites" to a bigger (7"-9") center fin where the grip is provided by the center fin and the sides act more as stabilizers and let the center in dominate. And of course as rear fins in quads, where you want the front sides to dominate.

Kami could tell us however if they would be good as front fins in a "Twinzer" setup, where I guess you want the rear fins to dominate the ride.

PS: On smaller fins for by waves, I agree. Also because longer boards for big waves have thinner rails (volume being distributed on a longer length), and the rails become the dominant grip force, the fins acting more as stabilizers and should let the rails do their work.

Thanks...good info ...wondered how it works ....
some great little fat short boards there colas....
i enjoy the raptor I have ...I reckon they would of done better with a pointier nose like yours pictured.....mine ploughs a bit in lumpy days.due to the sawn off nose ...that's the only complaint I have about it ...
i like the one on the left ...nice wide tail ...does it have great speed ?
what sizes are they ?

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Tardy said..

i like the one on the left ...nice wide tail ...does it have great speed ?
what sizes are they ?

The left is a Simmons, it has a lot of power in weak waves so you can carve turns in ankle snappers. It is the alternative to a longSUP for small slow waves. It is not as fast as it could be as the big concave gives control at the expense of speed.

More info on it in its dedicated topic: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/New-610-Simmons-SUP/ with videos

The one in the middle is faster (a modern fish).
Sizes are, from left to right: (extracted from page 3 of the above thread)
Gong AS 6'10"x 30 1/4" x 126l Simmons for weak slow waves
Gong One 6'8"x29.5"x125l for small waves
Gong Fatal 6'10"x30"x120l for powerful small waves or medium ones

In my current quiver (see it at www.gong-galaxy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115752 )
- the Gong AS has been replaced by a version without the concave and with 50/50 rails for speed and retro glide
- The One is the new version with a pulled-in squared nose, that is narrow enough not to plough in chop or dig rails in turns
- The Fatal is a new version, a bit longer and thinner (7'3") for a tad more powerful conditions. Its replacement is coming in today, which should be a total killer: the stability of a wide nose, with a pulled in tail with a "Tomo" central channel... gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box1707/Products/GON7SUPFATPRO75 6,5kg naked for a bombproof construction.