.I'm thinking of getting a 8'5 speed or the 8'4 flow..as a third board in my quiver as a change up from my Minion..are these available in NZ..I see them on TM is this the only dealer..and what's the difference between the two boards..and how would it compare to my 7'8 Minion
Thanks

HIi mate ive been surfing on a 8ft 8 speed for 4months now im 87kgs an the stability an paddling is great I did notice a bit of swing weight coming from using sub 8ft quads but the pulled in width an channels by the fins give it that extra magic Havent tried the flow but have read supcreeks comments on the 8ft 10 speed the flow and now he s raving about his 9ft 4 acid Dean out west Auckland the nz dealer if your interested

Thanks mate.most appreciated
Chur

I have the 8'10 speeed and the 8'7 flow. The speeed has been great (and very stable), but I will go for the flow if I want more fun on the wave. If you need speed (to get on the wave or to race the breaking wave across a reef) then the speeed is your best best. I also have the 8'10 minion - it is fun (as you know) but at the moment it is only good for me if the conditions are OK, but I love it when they are. Because of the thickness of the board and the round rails, I feel as if you roll through the turns on the minion rather than cutting through them as you do with the flow (if that makes any sense) and you pivot turn from the tail on the speeed (IMO). I am 90 kg (and rising ).

Thanks Can't SUP..I like the speed but my concern is it may be more like the 7'8 Minion I already have..in saying that..they look much more pulled in , in the tail.and thinner in the nose..which obviously going to make a big difference. The speed only has a thruster set up while the flow has the 5 fin...
My thought was going with the flow will get my back to that traditional shape . My Minion is 115L ..what would you suggest I could go to on either the flow or speed. I like the speed at 8'5 112L..but not sure about flow the 8'1 I think was about 101L..I like the 8'4 flow but it's 29" wide..which is wider then I'm used to. My Minion is only 27" wide.

you can read my opinions on Speeed vs Flow here, towars the bottom of the 1st page:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Me-Splashing-Around-On-My-Speed-video/

It is so hard making comparisons... Because my Speeed is 8'10 and my Minion is 7'10 I don't think they are alike at all, and it could be that I feel my speeed needs too much pressure on the tail because of its size. Plus you have to take surf conditions into account, and surf skill (I am a hack)...

The other question is; why are you looking for another board? Do you want it for the days that are perfect or crappy, big surf or small, hollow or fat?

When the conditions are right, the Minion is a ton of fun. My ideal conditions were: pretty smooth, waist high or bigger (I'm tall), and no competition so you could be in the right spot to catch the wave and it wasn't the end of the world if you missed it. In those conditions I was all smiles. The Minion turned on a dime and I always felt I could make sections, etc.

The 8'10 Speeed is only approx 5 litres more, but totally different to ride, so it is hard to use volume as a way to compare the boards/sizes. It is thinner all over, sharper rails, lighter, the same width, and a foot longer. It is FAR more stable (maybe I used it enough that I had it "dialed-in") so when the conditions were crappier I was still having fun, and I was still having a ton of fun if the conditions were good. And if there was competition for the waves it was more forgiving - you did not have to take off in the perfect location (as is true if the peak shifted around a lot). But again, my Speeed is 8'10 so a smaller board relative to my weight could be quite different.

Enter the 8'7 Flow. I have less experience on it, but it has approx 5 litres less volume than the Minion and I still think it is more stable. Yes, it is wider, but it has the classic surfboard shape so you can't compare widths between the Speeed/Minion and the Flow. But as per previous comments, while it always helps to put your foot on the tail, I feel as if the Flow is more maneuverable than the 8'10 Speeed, and it is similar to the Minion but in a different way...

Another way of answering the question is that I have another surf trip planned to the Maldives for next April and the 8'8 X32 Hokua and the Minion will be staying home... The two Sunovas will go because I think I will have all the surf conditions covered (for my level of ability).

Sorry for the essay...

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Supmaori said..
.I like the 8'4 flow but it's 29" wide..which is wider then I'm used to. My Minion is only 27" wide.

The rails on the Flow are probably quite thin compared to the Minion? My 8'11 Acid has very thin rails and it is 30.5" wide and you don't notice the width as you sit low in the water rather being corky with thicker/wider boards. Today I got to ride both my 7'4 x 27.5" Minion @104L and 8'11 x 30.5" Acid @120L and they are like chalk & cheese but stoked to have them in my quiver.

Thanks Stevo ..been talking to Matt about them at length.. may still go with the speed..in no rush..and mite look at going over and getting one.Dont fancy waiting for 3-4 months . Do you think you could go lower in volume then your Minion or your acid was pretty spot on
Cheers

I have found the 7'4 Minion @104L is the lowest volume I can manage @85kg and it needs to be pretty clean conditions. The 8'11 Acid @120L is my choppy water board and is spot on as easy to balance in choppy water and when there is a lot of current &/or white water to deal with. I don't think you want two boards too close in volume or width as you'd always be deciding what one to take out - but you'd always take the new board out - rather than having a bigger difference for different conditions - if you know what I mean.

If I was only having one board it would be in the 110-115L range to cover most conditions but the two boards at 104L and 120L is ideal.

Thats actually a great point Stevo. Thanks..something to factor in to the equation. At present , the only option is to go through NZ dealer , wait for one to come up on TM..or look at bringing one back. Plenty of time ..no rush..with just smash out the Minion
Chur

I have a 8'5" Speeed and the 8'3" Soul. These boards are both around the same volume however the Speeed is narrower at 27something wide vs 29 wide. Of the 2 the Speeed is the easiest to balance on. I think this is due to the parallel rails. Consequently I think that is unfair to make direct comparisons. Both are excellent boards and I am very happy with them. Currently I am using the Speeed more. It took a little time to get used to it as I had owned the 7'11 Speeed before this and while it could be challenging it really performed at a higher level. if I had to do the purchase again I would go for the next size down. I am 6' 80kgs and 58yo FYI.

Thanks CantSup
Your reviews are always great to read and extremely helpful. Your description of all the boards are always accurate and easy to follow. You made a good point..why do I need a new board..I probably actually don't come to think if it...I'm still in love with my Minion ..but reading all the great reviews and seeing the video I thought if I had the money and the opportunity I'd love a Speed ..hence there's no rush..it's on the wish list and hopefully in the near future a reality.
Cheers again

I am in the same situation as you ATM to change boards or not.

I have a 7'8 minion that I have been on for about a year and borrowed the demo 8'4 Flow from Surf Fx on sat for a try.

Surfed Burleigh rock break on Saturday in 2/3 ft clean waves and was really impressed with this board.

Pros.... Very stable , doesn't feel like a 8'4 surfs shorter , super easy to turn on the rail when turning up or down the face of the wave, great pop up handle for lifting over the waves, super light , tough construction and very smooth to surf.

Cons.... nothing really, probably not as fast as the minion on the take off but not that noticeable , non for sale secondhand yet

Definitely worth having in the quiver if I could only afford one.

+1 Flow

Thanks Photos and Wazza

Supmaori, if you are still curious about comparisons, I went out today and tested my 8'10 Speeed (130 L)which I have had for almost a year against my new 8'7" Flow (121 L)which I have had for about 10 days. Its the first day that I have surfed them side by side in the same conditions. Surf was waist to occasional overhead, with cross onshore wind at about 8-10mph and three directions of nasty cross rollers from shifting high winds on the outside. Me; 65 years old, 75 kilos, surfed for 40 years and SUPed for one year.
Though I like both boards a lot, there are some very noticeable differences in these conditions, more so than in perfect glass.
1. The Flow has more initial twitchiness in terms of balance, but I can stay dry on the Flow when the Speeed is tossing me in the drink. When the Flow tips, even way over on the rail, it is fairly easy to brace and right it. In conditions like today, the Flow has me twitching and bracing all the time, but almost never dumps me. The Speeed is slightly less twitchy, but when a cross roller sucks a rail down, I often cannot save it. It is like the rail evolving into a domed deck acts as a perfect wing, and once the cross roller flows over it, that wing is going to keep diving to the bottom no matter how hard I try to brace against it. To me, it literally feels like an unstoppable force. The rails on the Flow go up to a flat deck, and when the cross roller hits that transition onto the flat deck, the board wants to right itself with just a little help. The difference for me is huge anytime there are cross rollers in the lineup. In glassy conditions, I might say that the Speeed is the same or slightly more stable than the Flow; but if there is any chop or cross rollers, the Speeed is hopeless for me, while I can stay upright on the Flow; its all about how the rails evolve up into the deck profile.
2. The Speeed is a delight to paddle in smooth water, with the wide concave nose providing lots of lift to get the board up and going. However, if you are trying to paddle against the wind, even just to hold your place in the lineup, that big wide nose becomes a problem. Just like a boat with a flat broad bow, the nose slams into every piece of wind chop so that you can feel the whole board shudder. While the Flow does not paddle as fast as the Speeed in glassy water, the pointed nose pierces wind chop like its not even there, making for a very smooth paddle into the wind. Once again, the difference in glassy conditions is minimal, while the difference in choppy conditions is huge.
3. I like the way both boards surf very much, but they are totally different for me. Compared to other reviews, mine may be somewhat different because of the length of the boards I ride. My 8'10" Speeed reminds me of all the great qualities of a long board. Nice pivot or carved turns off the tail (and like any longboard you do see and feel some swing weight from the wide nose), fast effortless trimming down the line from the straighter outline and flatter rocker combined with the refined rails, begs you to walk up and down the board (the board gets bored if you just stand in one place), easy to trim and balance from the wide nose; all good stuff. The Flow is designed off of a shortboard template, and even at 8'7", it looks and surfs like one. Along with the much curvier outline, it also has a lot more bottom rocker end to end. With all those curves, the Flow wants you to constantly be working the rails, either rail to rail cutbacks, or pumping down the line. It is not particularly interested in you just standing there and trimming down the line, and it will feel slow if you do. Keep working those rails and pumping those thruster fins, and the board will generate more speed than the Speeed, but you have to work for it (and be on a wave that allows you to do that). Yes, at 8'7" you can walk forward on it a little, but the narrow nose will quickly bog down if you get too far forward on it. This is not the board for someone who likes to cross step a lot or spend any time on the nose. It is the perfect board for someone who wants a SUP with a short board feel, and reasonably good stability.
Of course the look and construction of the Sunovas are awesome, so both boards are winners on that count.
Hope this helps.

Obijohn that's a big help man.. thanks for your thoughts and review. Really good hearing others opinions of both boards. Of course conditions play a big part and what you say makes alot of sense.
Cheers Mate

Great review Obijohn....

I've been thinking about a Flow myself and your description of the performance on less than ideal conditions sounds really positive,

Cheers

Wazza was the 8'4 Flow at 107L less or more stabke than your 7'8 Minion..my Minion is 115L
Cheers

Great review obijohn
I have had a Speeed but was not happy with it so then I moved to and tried the Acid but that was not suitable for me either so maybe a nice small Flow would do the trick, I have also found the same problem with the domed deck on other boards :-)

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Supmaori said..
Wazza was the 8'4 Flow at 107L less or more stabke than your 7'8 Minion..my Minion is 115L
Cheers

The Minion is super stable at 7'8 x 28.

I jumped straight on the 8'4 flow and found it more stable even with the pointy nose and paddled straight through the break. It is a real easy board to ride and push around and felt like i was surfing a shorter board.

The rails are a lot more refined and thinner especially in the tail area then the minion. Remember they are 2 totally different styles of boards. Thinking of trying it as a quad tomorrow at the Alley.

Iam 85kgs and have been supping for 9 years.

Verdict - definitely a good surfing sup.

Hey wazza..given that you thought the flow was more stable than your 7'8 Minion..do you think you could have dropped to the 8'1 flow at 101L..or would they have been a step too far
Chur

Good question as i would need to try the 8'1 to give an accurate opinion.

I surfed the 8'4 flow in 3/4 ft semi cross shore at the Alley and the board performed better than expected.
Very stable and once you lean onto the rail on the bigger sets it just accelerates through the bottom turn and shoots up the face nicely.

Pumping down the line into Lacey's was super fun and the board was quick and easy to surf.

It is interesting (but not surprising) how different people have different experiences with the same boards. I agree with everything obijohn said, however I have not experienced the stability issue - but I am 15 kg heavier; maybe I have a greater ability to fight the "wing effect". I also imagine that at 15 kg lighter the need to be on the tail of the Speeed would be more important for obijohn than it is for me (and it is important for me), but perhaps less important for an even heavier rider. That is, the heavier you are negatively affects buoyancy and stability however it makes it easier to "man-handle" the board. (And I think on the Speeed you need enough weight to get the rails slightly under the water to increase stability.)

And when I read Wazza say his 7'8" Minion is super stable, and he is 85 kg, I know that I either have a lot of work to improve my balance or Wazza should sign up for cirque du soleil But I think supmaori has similar dimensions so it must just be me...

.....and to follow on from CSE, I reckon the Speeed is great to paddle (for a surf SUP). I'm 6.3 and 85kgs riding the 8.10 and I do a lot of paddling on it. Going into the wind or cross chop doesn't seem to be amy worse than you'd expect for a surf sup and I don't experience any slapping on the nose. Maybe it's my extra weight relative to obijohn sinks the nose enough to avoid those issues.

I,m still very much a learner when it comes to surf sup, but I'm definitely enjoying my Speeed (....although the flow sounds pretty awesome too.)
Good luck with your choice!
HB

I tend to agree with cSe comments about the Speeed. For what it's worth, I was never super stable on my former 7'9 VBOX nor 7'10 Minion when it was really choppy & I did initially struggle on my 8'5 Speeed however, I was clocking the scales closer to 90kgs then. I've managed to shed a few kilos + I 've ridden my 8'5 Speeed extensively this past summer & I would like to think that I can now use the board in almost all conditions....within reason.

I personally felt that both the 8'8 & 8'10 Speeeds were fractionally too big for me & that I surf the 8'5 better (I recently used both the 8'5 & 8'8 Speeeds back-to-back in the same conditions & I'm more comfortable on the 8'5) + my wave count is just as high. A key thing is not having to move my weight (nor back foot) around that much & when I lean into turns, the 8'5 seems to respond better....probably because of my weight.

Pretty much all of my boards are sub-29" wide so when I jumped on the 8'7 Flow (another awesome board) although it felt super stable (it's a different kind of stability given the flat deck & extra width vs the Speeed) it unfortunately felt too big for me. I think STC mentioned that you should aim to ride a Flow 1 size smaller vs the respective size Speeed e.g. if you're on the 8'10 Speeed, then probably the 8'7 Flow is a good option & for me, I would choose the 8'4 Flow unless I really wanted to challenge myself on the 8'1....but I would need pretty glassy conditions for that

Thanks Supbru
I was riding my 7'8 Minion all last year at around 96kgs and really enjoyed it -pretty muched stayed dry most of the time unless it was really choppy, however I have know dropped 10kgs and wanting to add to my quiver ..how would you have gone on the 8'2 speed? I'm looking at either the 8'5, 8'2 or maybe even the 8'4 flow..and I know they are very different boards but which one would you go fot if the flow vs speed as a point of diffence with your Minion?

Yet to try an 8'2 Speeed but my crude analysis for an 80-85kg range (obviously there are other variables like height / type of break etc.) would be 8'5 for an intermediate (weekend warrior) & 8'2 for someone more advanced or someone who's paddling on a regular basis. Obviously there are exceptions like Johnny who paddles a custom 7'11 @ >90kg.

Although I've yet to ride the 8'4 Flow, I think that in a perfect world, owning both a Flow (or Acid or any conventional fish shaped board) & Speeed is the way to go because they really offer something quite different but if I was forced to choose just 1 board, it would be the 8'5 Speeed all day long

PS - given that you want to add to your Minion quiver, probably the Flow sounds like it will offer a more diverse quiver on paper but as cSe mentions, the Speeed is a also a completely different ride vs the Minion so maybe the only answer is a 3 board quiver - haha

Thanks mate.. everything is pointing to a Speed..?? and without be able to demo the flow...it's hard to pull the trigger on one..
Been very helpful cheers

Hi Supmaori

I didnt try a Flow but I recently bought a 8'8 Speed and love it.
I now have a Naish 10'6, the Speed 8'8 and a Fanatic Allwave 7'11, which I all use in the surf depending on the conditions.
I replaced a JP Surf Pro 8'10 just for something a little more stable in the chop and was debating the Speed 8'5 or 8'8 and went the 8'8 for the stability.
It was a good choice for me. I find the Speed more stable than the JP because of the nose and the manoeuvrability is a bit better because of the less width and tail shape. (My JP was 2013 so not the current shape, which I believe is more manoeuvrable than the model I had)
I reckon if i bought the Speed 8'5 my Allwave wouldn't get that much use but this way i still take it out on those glassy days and enjoy that too.
The speed 8'8 is my all rounder and fits the gap perfectly. I can also take it out with my wife she wants to go for a flat water paddle on the Naish 10'6 so its a good fit for my requirements.
If you go the Speed I reckon the 8'5 would be perfect and the 8'2 could be hard work with any chop.

If it helps any I am 80Kg average rider.