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slsurf said..
You just made your repair guy very happy. Impressed you are still charging but at his weight I'm sure the 8'2 he is trying to ride is harder, I found once I dropped below 1.3-1.2 there is a big loss in secondary stability i.e. once the board is tilting it's very hard to recover. It's surprising but once you are close to your stability limit for a given ability small changes in outline or volume can have a big effect.

Yup. I handed it to Paul The Fixer, as I like to call him.

So, no real waves today and a 1 foot swell resulting in a slight and constant bump. Gentle onshore wind. I jumped back onto the Pro for the 4th time, if my counting is correct. I changed it from a quad to a thruster and I followed the pool dude's advice to keep my paddle out on the toe side as I am popping up. This helps to immediately brace and / or paddle forward. I can get away with doing whatever I feel like with the paddle as I am popping up on my other boards, since there is time to react and move the paddle to the toe side, if I need to brace for stability. Basically initial reactions need to be quicker on the pro and having the paddle on the correct side helps.

If I remember to keep the paddle on the toe side I am getting a pretty good success rate of staying on and I can now paddle around in a straight...ish line if I keep the paddle on the toe side. Paddling is still hopeless on the heel side. But I am managing to stay on for longer periods just bracing and not paddling as well.

Slowly but surely I am making some progress here. More flat days this week, so I'll keep kooking around until I get it.

5th session this morning and definitely getting there. This morning I realised that I needed to be more flexible with the knees to absorb the incoming swell lines. This has made a huge difference even when the nose sinks under water and I am starting to feel comfortable and in control in those situations, instead of falling off the front, or overcompensating by moving backwards and thus falling off the back.

I am able to stay on for extended periods and I even started to paddle earnestly into the little ankle biters coming past. I love how tiny and light this thing is compared to all my other boards.

Offshore, 2 foot sets this morning at my local. Long period swell, so loads of waiting for sets and I managed to catch 3 waves in an hour session. The board feels loose and great on a wave, as expected, and I can now also confirm that the Pro does not work well in these conditions (no surprises there). I could have had some fun on the Hypernut, but the Pro and I are currently at that early love / lust stage, even though she can be wild and unpredictable.

After about 10 sessions I am making good progress. Basically I had to polish and sharpen my technique in all aspects from paddling, balancing, feet placement and movement to reaction time. The board needs more of everything. More stamina, more concentration etc, but it's doable on the cleaner days.

good to hear mate. Def harder on the body when you go small. For me it's elbows.from digging in so much with the paddle to aid stability. And of course all the extra paddling.
when i go back to my normal size board it's super stable and I stay dry for longer. Everything is more dialled in, as you say.

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Saya suka SUP said..
good to hear mate. Def harder on the body when you go small. For me it's elbows.from digging in so much with the paddle to aid stability. And of course all the extra paddling.
when i go back to my normal size board it's super stable and I stay dry for longer. Everything is more dialled in, as you say.

Yup, very true. There was a bit of swell again with cross shore wind last weekend, so I jumped back on my Spice. I am very stable on the Spice normally, but all of the training on the Pro resulted in feeling far more comfortable and I was able to pop over bigger waves.

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theSeb said..

Saya suka SUP said..
good to hear mate. Def harder on the body when you go small. For me it's elbows.from digging in so much with the paddle to aid stability. And of course all the extra paddling.
when i go back to my normal size board it's super stable and I stay dry for longer. Everything is more dialled in, as you say.

Yup, very true. There was a bit of swell again with cross shore wind last weekend, so I jumped back on my Spice. I am very stable on the Spice normally, but all of the training on the Pro resulted in feeling far more comfortable and I was able to pop over bigger waves.

What dims are your Spice? How would you compare the 2 (if able to assume similar size/volume)?

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Saya suka SUP said..
What dims are your Spice? How would you compare the 2 (if able to assume similar size/volume)?

I cannot draw a direct comparison. I have an 8.8 Spice which, at 140 litres, is significantly easier to stand on and quite a bit larger. The length is only 6 more inches, but you can really see the extra size when you put the two boards together, especially in the nose and the mid area. I really enjoy the board, but I want to surf more like I used to on a prone surfboard, hence I am chasing the smaller boards. I still love my 8.8 Spice because of its ease of use. It's especially good for my local reef break which is often fat and requires the extra length and volume. Also, if you don't want to scramble over slippery rocks, then you can do the longer paddle around from the bay quite easily. I have weight and strength on my side, so I can throw the 8.8 Spice around, but it's no surprise that the 8.2 Pro feels looser and easier to throw around. If you get your lineup positioning and timing right, then the Pro will glide into waves ok, even with a big rider like me, but the 8.8 Spice will catch more waves in varying conditions without perfect timing, or placement. The drawn in nose and lack of volume upfront makes the Pro feel more like prone surfing a 6'6" (I proned back in the days before this let's go super short craze). I also feel more confident to bash oncoming sections on a smaller board, but that could be a mind thing. The Pro's rocker lets the board handle late and steeper drops easily. Once on a wave the Pro feels stable and great, but it clearly requires waves with some oomph.

In terms of a more fair comparison, it would be the 8.2 Spice vs 8.2 Pro. I've paddled around on an 8.2 Spice in onshore choppy conditions, but there were no waves. I found the 8.2 Spice to be stable and relatively easy to stand on and paddle. On the same day I tried out the 2022 Starboard longboard which was 10x29 and about the same litres as the 8.2 Spice. It was harder to balance on, but still ok. The reality is that at this moment in time something like an 8.8 Pro or the 8.2 Spice would likely by my "quiver killer" for the local conditions, but it was those two demos that convinced me to try to fast forward my progression and skip that intermediate step and be ambitious - hence why I got the 8.2 Pro.

My biggest eureka moment on this Pro journey was that my J strokes were not that great. My other boards like the Hypernut and the Spice let me get away with it. I also watched a Supboarder video about the C stroke and with a combination of better J strokes and the occasional C stroke I started paddling in the direction I wanted, without switching the paddle, and was able to start catching waves. Once you catch waves and it feels great, you want to build this relationship and catch more waves. So you start to focus more on balancing and paddling to be able to repeat the experience you just had. At least that's how it works for me and it's how a board like the 8' Hypernut became my most stable board even though I could not stand on it initially about 1.5 years ago when I had only sup surfed a 10'2" Wedge. Now I use it on the messiest days with near gale force winds and multiple swell directions.

I don't think I'll ever get to quite that extreme point with the Pro, unless I lose a significant amount of weight, but I can still have a lot of fun with it on the cleaner days. Quiver killers are cool and all, but I prefer to use the right tool for the job.

Thanks for all your reports. Your point about late drops, etc is why I'm happy to wobble on my Blurr and miss a few waves, there's a trade off between performance getting in early vs late, I'll miss a few to feel more confident on steeper drops

First tiny bit of swell since getting th8'2. Definitely a challenge but worth it. Steepest learning curve for me was how much more I had to keep my knees bent, all the time, to absorb chop and how much more I used my rear foot/leg for stability when paddling. My wife took these picks, not the sort of ideal wave but good enough to keep me motivated. Now 83kg, hope to get rid of a bit more!

Nice going NN. Yep, definitely agreed on the knees bent bit.

Interested to hear thoughts on J strokes and how to maintain stability on different board shapes.
For me:
-narrow board w good glide & paddling ie good front to back stability, bad side to side stability = do more J strokes and fewer switching paddle sides as causes board to rock side to side
-wide/short board, not as much glide but good side to stability = switch paddle sides more often to keep up fwd momentum for front to back stability, side to side tippyness less an issue due to width

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Saya suka SUP said..
Interested to hear thoughts on J strokes and how to maintain stability on different board shapes.
For me:
-narrow board w good glide & paddling ie good front to back stability, bad side to side stability = do more J strokes and fewer switching paddle sides as causes board to rock side to side
-wide/short board, not as much glide but good side to stability = switch paddle sides more often to keep up fwd momentum for front to back stability, side to side tippyness less an issue due to width

Sounds about right to me. I am more likely to switch the paddle on a more stable board. This was the one thing that I noticed was a big issue when I jumped on the Pro and started to analyse where I was going wrong. It was natural for me to be lazy about doing proper J strokes so I was switching the paddle on my other boards. This was not working well on the Pro.

Working on my J and C stroke technique started to help, but I've also been jumping back onto the Hypernut and the Spice on the bigger or more challenging choppy days. By forcing myself to keep paddling on my toe side when paddling back out on these boards and using J and C strokes I am now even more stable and able to pop over bigger foamies.

On the other hand, I went out for a quick session this morning on the Pro expecting it to be flat and to practice my paddling, but instead it was quite fun and cleanish 2 foot shore break. I caught a few waves in an hour - dawn patrol app registered 5. I was starting to switch the paddle and be far more comfortable bracing myself on either side (even though the first 5 minutes were a complete clown show). Initially I could only brace on the toe side and bad things would happen if I switched the paddle. Side to side stability is ok for me on the Pro now. It's the fore-aft stability that I have to actively concentrate on to make sure I don't sink the nose or the tail too much.

Oh yeah... I also switched it to a quad. I can't see much difference in tracking and ability to paddle straight, but hopefully that's a sign that I am becoming more in-tune with the board.

Interesting stuff. I rarely switch paddle on any of my boards when paddling (switch on wave). Seem to be able to turn right and left just paddling on toe side using J, C, draw and sculls. Find stroke strength and stability on heel side much weaker, has interestingly contributed (with other sports) to an overdeveloped back on the right side

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Napnap said..
Interesting stuff. I rarely switch paddle on any of my boards when paddling (switch on wave). Seem to be able to turn right and left just paddling on toe side using J, C, draw and sculls. Find stroke strength and stability on heel side much weaker, has interestingly contributed (with other sports) to an overdeveloped back on the right side

Not super obvious, but it's there. You're not deformed or anything :)
I try to mix up toe/heel, prone and knee paddling to use different muscle groups. But only toeside when on a wave.
left elbow specifically gets smashed for some reason. Not enough to stop me going out, but I think it's similar to tennis elbow (never played tennis so wouldn't know).

Think the elbow thing is called golfers elbow, not sure if my brother was winding me up when he mentioned it! Have also started to use resistant bands (the one swimmers use) practising swimming strokes and paddle strokes, to strengthen and stabilise the left side. Don't want to look any odder than I do! Ha ha!

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Saya suka SUP said..
good to hear mate. Def harder on the body when you go small. For me it's elbows.from digging in so much with the paddle to aid stability. And of course all the extra paddling.
when i go back to my normal size board it's super stable and I stay dry for longer. Everything is more dialled in, as you say.

interesting: my elbows get worked too

I have discovered something kind of interesting, but I guess not very surprising. Water is currently around 8 C, which is the coldest it gets before it starts warming up again in April. Air temps have been going up, so I've climbed out of the 5mm booties I've been using since December and into some 3mm ones. The ones I tried are a year old, so they were well used and the soles were looking quite shiny, but I wanted to see if they have any life left. Long story short: they did not. Every time I tried to paddle the Pro, I simply slipped off.

I did not have spare booties with me, so I took them off and braved the water. I could pretend to be some hardcore hard man, but I won't lie - it was not nice and my feet went a bit numb after 10 minutes. I stayed in for an hour. It was incredible how much more stable I felt on the board without booties, despite the numbness. Also, I was far quicker to react to the bumps of the short period swell in the water and was almost 100% comfortable out there. The quicker reaction made fore-aft stability almost a non-issue.

It's hard to quantify, but everything feels FAR more stable barefoot than using 5mm booties (that are still grippy).

Bring on the warmer waters.

Edit: forgot to mention that I started waxing the traction pad. It's a small game changer, in my opinion.

I think it's called proprioception, much harder in booties. I don't wear booties anymore after injuring my foot, but I used to for surfing. When I tried wearing booties for sup to go out at a spot with sharp reef it was noticeably much harder as you found.

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theSeb said..
I have discovered something kind of interesting, but I guess not very surprising. Water is currently around 8 C, which is the coldest it gets before it starts warming up again in April. Air temps have been going up, so I've climbed out of the 5mm booties I've been using since December and into some 3mm ones. The ones I tried are a year old, so they were well used and the soles were looking quite shiny, but I wanted to see if they have any life left. Long story short: they did not. Every time I tried to paddle the Pro, I simply slipped off.

I did not have spare booties with me, so I took them off and braved the water. I could pretend to be some hardcore hard man, but I won't lie - it was not nice and my feet went a bit numb after 10 minutes. I stayed in for an hour. It was incredible how much more stable I felt on the board without booties, despite the numbness. Also, I was far quicker to react to the bumps of the short period swell in the water and was almost 100% comfortable out there. The quicker reaction made fore-aft stability almost a non-issue.

It's hard to quantify, but everything feels FAR more stable barefoot than using 5mm booties (that are still grippy).

Bring on the warmer waters.

Edit: forgot to mention that I started waxing the traction pad. It's a small game changer, in my opinion.

I noticed that as well. The pro is such a sensitive board that sliding my foot an inch or so really really changes my balance, and for that reason I've stopped using booties, as I cannot slide my foot with them. Of course, temperatures here are noticeably warmer than there. I admire you for suffering for your art.

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slsurf said..
I think it's called proprioception, much harder in booties. I don't wear booties anymore after injuring my foot, but I used to for surfing. When I tried wearing booties for sup to go out at a spot with sharp reef it was noticeably much harder as you found.

Proprioception, eh? I learned a new word today and I like it.

"Proprioception, or kinesthesia, is the sense that lets us perceive the location, movement, and action of parts of the body. It encompasses a complex of sensations, including perception of joint position and movement, muscle force, and effort."

I would say it definitely explains what I was feeling. Without booties the board and I were acting more in unison, as if it was an extension of my feet. That direct feel is a huge difference. I don't feel the same difference between booties and no booties on my bigger boards. I guess that is because it's not needed since they are easier to balance on.

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SoCalYokel said..

I noticed that as well. The pro is such a sensitive board that sliding my foot an inch or so really really changes my balance, and for that reason I've stopped using booties, as I cannot slide my foot with them. Of course, temperatures here are noticeably warmer than there. I admire you for suffering for your art.

The way the board feels on a wave is so good and addictive that I was willing to live with the combination of pain and numbness for a bit, but as soon as I got home I ordered a new pair of 3 mm booties.

I have to agree about the sensitivity. Without the booties I felt like I was able to tell what the board was doing and react faster and more precisely. One of my issues that I've had to overcome on this board is that I've often over corrected and the board's sensitivity made it unforgiving to such clumsiness... like tail starts sinking, so I would move too much weight to the front and sink the nose. Even though I have been getting better at this over the last few weeks with booties, I could immediately tell how much to react without the booties. Booties make the counter reaction feel like a bit of guessing game.