Yep I've never washed a kite in my life, they are pretty tough really.

However after my little go on a demo Duotone wing I can seen the danger will be putting a foil (or fin if you are on a regular board, why would you do that though) through it, not that it happened to me but I can see how it could easily though especially when learning.

Also I am not too sure how you will go placing the wing on a beach when it is blowing fairly strong, with most kites the leading edge is fairly flat so they sit there fairly stable with no (or just a handful) of sand on top of them.
With the shape of most wings I can see some of them blowing around a bit even is secured by the leash.

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Scotty Mac said..
Ha ha did you mean Jason P? Ben Severne i meant.......

I know whom you meant, i'm not a kook
And no, i don't meant Polakow, but Diffin, he designs the salis another ex-world champ puts his name on, go figure

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hilly said..

Piros said..
Never washed a kite in my life . Cabrhina have a new super tough rip resistant material for their kites and Foil wings 2020 .

Agree. Fresh water = mould

Best advice ever! I used to dilegently wash my windsurfing sails 30 years ago when I was a kid. Then I realized with salt water you roll them up wet and they come out sparkly. Never wash with fresh water. Bad Ju-Ju

Long vid in german language.
They gave a Duotone and a Slingwing to absolute beginners to test and compare.
Verdicts:
- Duotone easier for beginners, softer, easy to pump, easy to vary grip position
- Slingwing more stable in flight
- Duotone light (2,9 kg) and a little "fragile" materials ("like a kid rig")
- Slingwing heavy (3,8 k) but build with solid materials
- No substitute for light wind windsurf/kite foiling, needs at least 15 knots for easy flying
- shi...y to watch but fun to do

gleiten.tv/index.php/video/action/story/v/3275/s/63/page/436/

From the various feedbacks I have been able to read, I think I can make out a trend: Good Windsurfers seem nonplussed by the Wings, but Kiters (and people with no sailing experience) seem to love them. Interesting. Maybe a random fluke on my limited data, however.

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colas said..
From the various feedbacks I have been able to read, I think I can make out a trend: Good Windsurfers seem nonplussed by the Wings, but Kiters (and people with no sailing experience) seem to love them. Interesting. Maybe a random fluke on my limited data, however.

Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings. And to some extent, I think that's understandable, from both wind communities: as they both already use refined wind tools that are highly effective. These wings will be less efficient and awkward to use than either. These wings could be a fun wind toy if they worked in light wind, but reports are they need 15+ to be good ... and at 15+, I could be foiling on an 8m kite, ripping around at Mach 5 (well, it feels like Mach 5, maybe Mach 0.5 realistically ;-)

My interest in the wings is more related to sup foiling. I have hopes for wind assisted take-offs, riding long unbroken waves for long distances, without any wing input, then winging back upwind ... "look ma, no paddle". And then also downwinders in wind swells, as that looks fun but way too much work with the paddle. The other fit is for situations where kites don't work: no launch, sketchy winds.

But with sup foilers a tiny group, I suspect the main interest in these wings will be SUPpers that don't yet windsurf or kite ... a way to play in wind without a huge investment in gear or lessons.

I was going to wait and see, demo them once around, but got caught up in the hype ... Gong 5m on order. If it doesn't work well, and doesn't find a spot in the quiver, then I'll pass it on quick while the hype's still hot.

If you want to keep the duo tone window clear then wash it with fresh water. And yes hang up and dry if it's going to be stored. True I never washed kites either but sails I did otherwise the clear view is gone. Interesting Diffin hey. Never heard of him. Designs or did for NP?

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hilly said..

Piros said..
Never washed a kite in my life . Cabrhina have a new super tough rip resistant material for their kites and Foil wings 2020 .

Agree. Fresh water = mould

Hum, never thought of that, is mold really a problem? Any suggestions for us who use a wing in freshwater and don't have time to dry it?

Have it stored in a garage thats got some airflow then no problem. Leave it wet rolled up and leave other stuff on top of it for days on end then it might get mouldy. The bags have vent material so just hang it up in the garage in its bag and it will dry.

Lots of kiters I know don't seem to worry about wet kites, but my policy is to never put a wet kite into its bag. Let it air dry before you put it away. These wings aren't exactly massive, you could probably just drape it over a door. Compare that to a 17m kite in the Pacific NW monsoon season ... thing is just about bigger than my house, some logistical challenges arise. ;-)

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juandesooka said..
Lots of kiters I know don't seem to worry about wet kites, but my policy is to never put a wet kite into its bag. Let it air dry before you put it away. These wings aren't exactly massive, you could probably just drape it over a door. Compare that to a 17m kite in the Pacific NW monsoon season ... thing is just about bigger than my house, some logistical challenges arise. ;-)

+1

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colas said..
From the various feedbacks I have been able to read, I think I can make out a trend: Good Windsurfers seem nonplussed by the Wings, but Kiters (and people with no sailing experience) seem to love them. Interesting. Maybe a random fluke on my limited data, however.

Only hangout with kiters so cannot speak for pole dancers. Everyone I talk to is a bit skeptical about them, mainly where do they fit in. My son tried one and got going straight away on a sup in strong wind and came in after 20 mins underwhelmed. Watched Jas from WAsurf/WestOz get up on a foil but needed more wind than the kite foilers who where out. It was a 4m. Jury is still out for me, will need to ride one in a few different scenarios to be convinced. I can see it being attractive for someone intimidated by kites and windsurfing due to all the gear needed for those sports. I like the simplicity of the concept.

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hilly said..

Only hangout with kiters so cannot speak for pole dancers. Everyone I talk to is a bit skeptical about them, mainly where do they fit in. My son tried one and got going straight away on a sup in strong wind and came in after 20 mins underwhelmed. Watched Jas from WAsurf/WestOz get up on a foil but needed more wind than the kite foilers who where out. It was a 4m. Jury is still out for me, will need to ride one in a few different scenarios to be convinced. I can see it being attractive for someone intimidated by kites and windsurfing due to all the gear needed for those sports. I like the simplicity of the concept.

Yep, jury's out for sure. I have a vision: a day out at a perfect sup foiling point, as the wave breaks momentarily then is just a long wall after that. Was blowing about 5kt when I paddled out, 15kt when I left. Super long rides, but a b**tch to paddle in the wind. Not really kiteable, as it's a bit of a wind shadow, so kinda sketchy. But will it be work and will it be fun? Dunno.

2nd vision is 25km downwinder in the swells on the sup foil, able to land in spots that are not kite friendly. But doing this means giving up a quality kite session plus a lot of logistics, so will I actually do it? Again, dunno ... now that I have committed to buying one, I already have the 2nd doubts and buyers' remorse. We'll see!

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juandesooka said..
this means giving up a quality kite session

That is my issue

Coming from a Kiting and and windsurfing background I can see the pros and cons for the sport. The windwing It is not a high performance sport but looks to be just a fun new thing to do on the water. I like the simplicity of the sport and they easy setup. I cant wait to get mine and go for a spin on it with a foil.

itching on the wing ding but I'm gonna wait until I sort out my kook foiling thing as I'm worried crashing into the wing with the lot but I could just use it on non foiling activities (board's only).

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juandesooka said..
Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings.

Well, I ignore the opinion of people that did not actually tried it.

another wing minus the air.
The carbon boom are nice on which Duotone should take note for thier 2021 boom release or upgrade addional accessories.
kitewing.com/product-category/wings/

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colas said..

juandesooka said..
Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings.

Well, I ignore the opinion of people that did not actually tried it.

Haha ok i was just leaving these wind wing thing topics alone as i have not tried one but because you asked for my opinion i thought i may as well give my 2 cents.

I think alot of people are buying these and are going to get a rude shock as to how boring something can be, if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!

From what i can see are the pro's for the wing are going back and forth and maybe going upwind a little you can maybe ride bumps cutting across the wind but never really do a full downwinder as in most cases we downwind on a foil faster than the wind so you will just end up with a big annoying wing flapping around your head. If you think it will be fun to ride just on a normal SUP then hahaha yes it might be for the first 10 mins but i bet you will do it once maybe twice and then the wing will never be seen again and just go to the pile with the Ab roller.

I have never seen the brands fight over market share like i have on these either and its pretty piss funny, Naish is oh ours packs up smaller and Duotone is ours is stiffer it has a Boom haha. I heard someone say they are going to sail upwind and then once they get there they will pack it up and downwind home haha good luck!! you do know that you tack side on to the wind and can not just go straight up wind hey so yes you might be able to do it but it will take you all day to get far enough up wind to then get a 15min down wind ride and good luck on the Duotone one as that thing packs up to the size of a small car!!

Dont get me wrong i am sure some people will love it but right now i am seeing shops and brands making stupid claims about what they can do just so they can sell a bunch of left over kite material.


One thing i could see is wing course racing on foils which would be kinda slow compared to wind surfing but maybe fun with how close everyone could get and i can see a few areas where this might really take off but for the rest of it well yeah i am not really sold. Will i have a go if i get the chance? yes why not we all need to get the 10 mins of fun we deserve.

A little harsh i know but Colas asked for it!!

By the way these will get discounted like crazy as they can be shipped so easy i give it until after the first shipment before certain shops who have over ordered drop the price at least 20% or more and then bet Gong will try and drop the price even further just to screw it some more and make sure no one makes any money!! Haha negative Nancy hey!!

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..

colas said..

juandesooka said..
Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings.

Well, I ignore the opinion of people that did not actually tried it.

Haha ok i was just leaving these wind wing thing topics alone as i have not tried one but because you asked for my opinion i thought i may as well give my 2 cents.

I think alot of people are buying these and are going to get a rude shock as to how boring something can be, if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!

From what i can see are the pro's for the wing are going back and forth and maybe going upwind a little you can maybe ride bumps cutting across the wind but never really do a full downwinder as in most cases we downwind on a foil faster than the wind so you will just end up with a big annoying wing flapping around your head. If you think it will be fun to ride just on a normal SUP then hahaha yes it might be for the first 10 mins but i bet you will do it once maybe twice and then the wing will never be seen again and just go to the pile with the Ab roller.

I have never seen the brands fight over market share like i have on these either and its pretty piss funny, Naish is oh ours packs up smaller and Duotone is ours is stiffer it has a Boom haha. I heard someone say they are going to sail upwind and then once they get there they will pack it up and downwind home haha good luck!! you do know that you tack side on to the wind and can not just go straight up wind hey so yes you might be able to do it but it will take you all day to get far enough up wind to then get a 15min down wind ride and good luck on the Duotone one as that thing packs up to the size of a small car!!

Dont get me wrong i am sure some people will love it but right now i am seeing shops and brands making stupid claims about what they can do just so they can sell a bunch of left over kite material.


One thing i could see is wing course racing on foils which would be kinda slow compared to wind surfing but maybe fun with how close everyone could get and i can see a few areas where this might really take off but for the rest of it well yeah i am not really sold. Will i have a go if i get the chance? yes why not we all need to get the 10 mins of fun we deserve.

A little harsh i know but Colas asked for it!!

By the way these will get discounted like crazy as they can be shipped so easy i give it until after the first shipment before certain shops who have over ordered drop the price at least 20% or more and then bet Gong will try and drop the price even further just to screw it some more and make sure no one makes any money!! Haha negative Nancy hey!!

Some valid points there. I will try it soon and report back.

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..

colas said..

juandesooka said..
Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings.

Well, I ignore the opinion of people that did not actually tried it.

Haha ok i was just leaving these wind wing thing topics alone as i have not tried one but because you asked for my opinion i thought i may as well give my 2 cents.

I think alot of people are buying these and are going to get a rude shock as to how boring something can be, if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!

From what i can see are the pro's for the wing are going back and forth and maybe going upwind a little you can maybe ride bumps cutting across the wind but never really do a full downwinder as in most cases we downwind on a foil faster than the wind so you will just end up with a big annoying wing flapping around your head. If you think it will be fun to ride just on a normal SUP then hahaha yes it might be for the first 10 mins but i bet you will do it once maybe twice and then the wing will never be seen again and just go to the pile with the Ab roller.

I have never seen the brands fight over market share like i have on these either and its pretty piss funny, Naish is oh ours packs up smaller and Duotone is ours is stiffer it has a Boom haha. I heard someone say they are going to sail upwind and then once they get there they will pack it up and downwind home haha good luck!! you do know that you tack side on to the wind and can not just go straight up wind hey so yes you might be able to do it but it will take you all day to get far enough up wind to then get a 15min down wind ride and good luck on the Duotone one as that thing packs up to the size of a small car!!

Dont get me wrong i am sure some people will love it but right now i am seeing shops and brands making stupid claims about what they can do just so they can sell a bunch of left over kite material.


One thing i could see is wing course racing on foils which would be kinda slow compared to wind surfing but maybe fun with how close everyone could get and i can see a few areas where this might really take off but for the rest of it well yeah i am not really sold. Will i have a go if i get the chance? yes why not we all need to get the 10 mins of fun we deserve.

A little harsh i know but Colas asked for it!!

By the way these will get discounted like crazy as they can be shipped so easy i give it until after the first shipment before certain shops who have over ordered drop the price at least 20% or more and then bet Gong will try and drop the price even further just to screw it some more and make sure no one makes any money!! Haha negative Nancy hey!!

Thanks for putting the time into your response Jacko, i'd say you gave more than 2cents worth .

First up, it is important to understand where the wings will fit in. They are not going to replace Kiteboarding or Windsurfing. They are not as "Hard Core" as either of these sports, not are they (at this point) as "extreme". But for ease of use, speed or rigging and the amazing ability to learn a wind sport in seconds, they are really very good. As for mowing the grass, this will come down to the rider. The more I am riding the Wing, the more I am finding some great potential for where these wings will definitely fit in on the more "Core" side of things.

Going up wind in 12kn+ is super easy on a foil. You'll smoke just about everything (except formula Windfoiling). But yes, direct DW'ing is not that great on the wings, as Jacko mentions, squaring off the wind does provide problems, and I would likely just use big Foil and paddle/foil DW in these cases. But if the wind was annoyingly side/cross, and as little as 10-12kn, then you're in for a treat. It is a shyte load of fun weaving on swells and literally surfing endless waves like you're snowboarding a massive mountain. I think it was a mistake for certain brands to advertise the wings as "Down Wind Tools", as this is not necessarily their strong point. Pack down vs boom, what ever, good to have some differences (but the Naish is better ). A wing in your quiver will get (at least on the NSW east coast) more use than your kites due to the gusty crap we usually get). The SUP thing is interesting, and I can appreciate from your perspective Jacko that it may be boring. But to someone who doesn't kite or windsurf, but owns a SUP, it is a hell of a lot more fun than paddling in 5-10kn of wind any day of the week.

Coarse racing will happen and is already in Europe.

Cheap and dodgy gear is likely inevitable. They will never be the premium some bands are/have, but some wont care. This is no different to anything these days.

Anyway, as a wrap up. I find Wing Surfing a hell of a lot of fun. I wasn't sure at first just how fun it was going to be, but I has surprised me. It compliments foiling perfectly.

Watch this space.

Also I am hoping for some good condition tomorrow morning, so if all aligns, will be getting some wave riding with the Wing, and we can see how "boring" it is then.

Ride safe,

JB

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..

.... if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!
....

You realise that 90% of kite and windsurfers do nothing more than mow the grass. It's worse with windsurfers. They crash at the end of each lap. Lots of people love it, have been doing it for years, and spend hours and thousands of dollars doing it.

Surfing has to be the ultimate lawn mowing sport. Paddle out. Sit. Sit. Sit. Catch the occasional wave. Wiggle about. Repeat.

Select to expand quote

Windgenuity said..

paul.j said..

colas said..

juandesooka said..
Ha, you must be on different forums than me ... kiters seem 95% united in mockery and disdain for these wings.

Well, I ignore the opinion of people that did not actually tried it.

Haha ok i was just leaving these wind wing thing topics alone as i have not tried one but because you asked for my opinion i thought i may as well give my 2 cents.

I think alot of people are buying these and are going to get a rude shock as to how boring something can be, if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!

From what i can see are the pro's for the wing are going back and forth and maybe going upwind a little you can maybe ride bumps cutting across the wind but never really do a full downwinder as in most cases we downwind on a foil faster than the wind so you will just end up with a big annoying wing flapping around your head. If you think it will be fun to ride just on a normal SUP then hahaha yes it might be for the first 10 mins but i bet you will do it once maybe twice and then the wing will never be seen again and just go to the pile with the Ab roller.

I have never seen the brands fight over market share like i have on these either and its pretty piss funny, Naish is oh ours packs up smaller and Duotone is ours is stiffer it has a Boom haha. I heard someone say they are going to sail upwind and then once they get there they will pack it up and downwind home haha good luck!! you do know that you tack side on to the wind and can not just go straight up wind hey so yes you might be able to do it but it will take you all day to get far enough up wind to then get a 15min down wind ride and good luck on the Duotone one as that thing packs up to the size of a small car!!

Dont get me wrong i am sure some people will love it but right now i am seeing shops and brands making stupid claims about what they can do just so they can sell a bunch of left over kite material.


One thing i could see is wing course racing on foils which would be kinda slow compared to wind surfing but maybe fun with how close everyone could get and i can see a few areas where this might really take off but for the rest of it well yeah i am not really sold. Will i have a go if i get the chance? yes why not we all need to get the 10 mins of fun we deserve.

A little harsh i know but Colas asked for it!!

By the way these will get discounted like crazy as they can be shipped so easy i give it until after the first shipment before certain shops who have over ordered drop the price at least 20% or more and then bet Gong will try and drop the price even further just to screw it some more and make sure no one makes any money!! Haha negative Nancy hey!!

Thanks for putting the time into your response Jacko, i'd say you gave more than 2cents worth .

First up, it is important to understand where the wings will fit in. They are not going to replace Kiteboarding or Windsurfing. They are not as "Hard Core" as either of these sports, not are they (at this point) as "extreme". But for ease of use, speed or rigging and the amazing ability to learn a wind sport in seconds, they are really very good. As for mowing the grass, this will come down to the rider. The more I am riding the Wing, the more I am finding some great potential for where these wings will definitely fit in on the more "Core" side of things.

Going up wind in 12kn+ is super easy on a foil. You'll smoke just about everything (except formula Windfoiling). But yes, direct DW'ing is not that great on the wings, as Jacko mentions, squaring off the wind does provide problems, and I would likely just use big Foil and paddle/foil DW in these cases. But if the wind was annoyingly side/cross, and as little as 10-12kn, then you're in for a treat. It is a shyte load of fun weaving on swells and literally surfing endless waves like you're snowboarding a massive mountain. I think it was a mistake for certain brands to advertise the wings as "Down Wind Tools", as this is not necessarily their strong point. Pack down vs boom, what ever, good to have some differences (but the Naish is better ). A wing in your quiver will get (at least on the NSW east coast) more use than your kites due to the gusty crap we usually get). The SUP thing is interesting, and I can appreciate from your perspective Jacko that it may be boring. But to someone who doesn't kite or windsurf, but owns a SUP, it is a hell of a lot more fun than paddling in 5-10kn of wind any day of the week.

Coarse racing will happen and is already in Europe.

Cheap and dodgy gear is likely inevitable. They will never be the premium some bands are/have, but some wont care. This is no different to anything these days.

Anyway, as a wrap up. I find Wing Surfing a hell of a lot of fun. I wasn't sure at first just how fun it was going to be, but I has surprised me. It compliments foiling perfectly.

Watch this space.

Also I am hoping for some good condition tomorrow morning, so if all aligns, will be getting some wave riding with the Wing, and we can see how "boring" it is then.

Ride safe,

JB

Haha well I did think that the world of wing surfing just could not go forward until I had put in my 2 or maybe a little more cents!!

Select to expand quote

Gorgo said..

paul.j said..

.... if you took the most boring part of Kitesurfing and windsurfing then this is what you have here. Its called mowing the grass where you just go back and forward for a few hours and then go home!
....

You realise that 90% of kite and windsurfers do nothing more than mow the grass. It's worse with windsurfers. They crash at the end of each lap. Lots of people love it, have been doing it for years, and spend hours and thousands of dollars doing it.

Surfing has to be the ultimate lawn mowing sport. Paddle out. Sit. Sit. Sit. Catch the occasional wave. Wiggle about. Repeat.

Yes I do know this but I guess it is more like a push mower as opposed to wind surf and kiting which might be more like a sit on lawnmower.

Hey Jacko and all, my opinion, yes going in and out can be a bit boring both windsurfing and kiting. Windsurfing is absolutely not boring in good surf but chasing this does get tiring. Downwind foiling is the most fun thing to do i think. But where i see the wing fitting in is if your alone or cant do the car shuffle because of time etc. Also the wing is a **** load cheaper than buying a full set of windsurfing foil gear. So yer might get boring but who knows. They do drive hard upwind quite easy so taking a couple of hours and making it 15 km upwind and then doing a foil downwinder does sound appealing. Id be packing the wing up for that.....

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Scotty Mac said..
Hey Jacko and all, my opinion, yes going in and out can be a bit boring both windsurfing and kiting. Windsurfing is absolutely not boring in good surf but chasing this does get tiring. Downwind foiling is the most fun thing to do i think. But where i see the wing fitting in is if your alone or cant do the car shuffle because of time etc. Also the wing is a **** load cheaper than buying a full set of windsurfing foil gear. So yer might get boring but who knows. They do drive hard upwind quite easy so taking a couple of hours and making it 15 km upwind and then doing a foil downwinder does sound appealing. Id be packing the wing up for that.....

You have a duotune right? what are you going to do with the boom when you downwind home? or should I not ask such a private question???

I thought you had mates to down wind with or did that Trav guy ditch you!!haha

Ha ha yer got sick of that trav guy trying to check me wombats out when i was getting my wetty on so i ditched him.....

Na the duo tone was a demo wing. I liked it felt good but going to try the naish. I think it would be not hard to work out a way to replace the bar with a paddle on the duo tone. A carbon paddle a heaps lighter too. Not sure how the handles are going to feel on the naish. Easy to wack your board with the duo tone bar so thats something to remember when you try one.

Like i said the down wind foiling is the sh_t so i dont think I wing instead of that........

For people who cant get the downwind foiling going the wing might be good. Its pretty easy..

Seabreeze continues to be the best forum around for a good mix of commentary, with a combination of stoked optimism and critique, but always with a touch of good humour. The other forums can be so negative, it gets to be a bit much. I'll invoke my "lifelong surfer" privilege and say that kite forums tend to be full of kooks. Here, even if you're not a surfer, there is a higher chance of at least getting it. Not too many people here wearing shorts over wetsuits.

Anyways, I digress ... the commentary on this thread over last couple days is really excellent, in envisioning how these wings may be used and where they fit in the quiver. I remain hopeful that it'll be a fun addition, for certain specific situations. Though I foresee a problem: it'll take some dedicated effort to get pro enough with the wing that it is effective in those situations (in particular for foil surfing waves, which is hard enough with a paddle in hand, much less dealing with a wing). This will mean sacrificing some quality time for both wave kiting and sup foiling, in order to get it dialed ... and if not willing to sacrifice those sessions, I will never get good enough to use it properly. It might be different if you live on Maui, or maybe east coast oz ... around here, our windows of opportunity are super narrow, so a learning session usually means giving up something else. We'll see!

This mornings weather looks "crap" for anything. Wind direction is bad and super gusty, jumping from 9-13kn so the surfs bumpy, offshore so its difficult to paddle into to even catch waves.

i could be totally wrong, but gonna go for a Wing Surf!

JB

Select to expand quote

Scotty Mac said..
Ha ha yer got sick of that trav guy trying to check me wombats out when i was getting my wetty on so i ditched him.....

Na the duo tone was a demo wing. I liked it felt good but going to try the naish. I think it would be not hard to work out a way to replace the bar with a paddle on the duo tone. A carbon paddle a heaps lighter too. Not sure how the handles are going to feel on the naish. Easy to wack your board with the duo tone bar so thats something to remember when you try one.

Like i said the down wind foiling is the sh_t so i dont think I wing instead of that........

For people who cant get the downwind foiling going the wing might be good. Its pretty easy..

You spend more time looking at my wombats for a long distance away when we downwind scotty