So how is everyone getting on with these wings, has anyone else's delaminated or split like mine did?

Mine is still in dry dock awaiting another repair now it's finally dried out (taken 3-4 weeks),

I see foilsurf-uk posted a piece on his blog page about being wary of reef on this product compared to other brands like gofoil etc.

Super bummed out takuma aren't interested in the issue I had with an otherwise well performing wing, poor customer service.

Select to expand quote

sozz said..
So how is everyone getting on with these wings, has anyone else's delaminated or split like mine did?

Mine is still in dry dock awaiting another repair now it's finally dried out (taken 3-4 weeks),

I see foilsurf-uk posted a piece on his blog page about being wary of reef on this product compared to other brands like gofoil etc.

Super bummed out takuma aren't interested in the issue I had with an otherwise well performing wing, poor customer service.

I have sold quite a bit of gear already, I had one small issue and they replaced the wing straight away.

Who are you contacting? From my dealings they can be a little slow to reply to some things but never had any problems once they do.

If your wing has split like you say then I could only imagine this has a high chance of a warranty as this should be covered under manufacturing defects.

I can try and helps you if you like? Just send me some info to jacko@onestanduppaddle.com

Cheers Jacko

I emailed the seller who is also the national distribution agent, he said that decent foilers don't hit the reef so it was rider error and washed his hands of it,

takuma never replied to emails,

Cyril the main boss was involved on instagram and received a message with pics documenting the issue 7 weeks ago, nothing back, blasted them on insta last weekend, still nothing.

actually did a full repair on it tonight so It's rideable again finally,

appreciate your offer Jacko but you shouldn't need to be dealing with it, they're a pretty strange company to say the least.

If you brought a car and ran into a pole or wall would you then claim warranty. ,.. wouldn't it be user error not the manufacturer fault

Are you serious?
The friggin wing tip delaminated and peeled apart on second use after a mild reef brush,
or do you expect to buy a new foil or have to do major repairs every time you brush the reef or give it a knock in the car park?

The lamination of something like this shouldn't fail like that where you can literally pull it apart with your finger nails, that ain't fit for purpose.
can you peel a gofoil or Armstrong or axis apart with your finger nails after a brand new wing gets a gentle knock?

Select to expand quote

dtm said..
If you brought a car and ran into a pole or wall would you then claim warranty. ,.. wouldn't it be user error not the manufacturer fault

It has to be fit for purpose.

All of the foils I've ridden so far have been able to withstand serious impacts, let alone minor abrasions from paddling etc.

Foiling reef and reasonable wear from it is part of the deal with foiling.

If it's known that these things are dainty, then the manufacturer should sell them with a disclaimer. I.e only use behind boats, on sand etc. or void warranty. At that point the buyer can decide whether the boutique price is warranted and proceed unprotected...and honestly they are not a cheap foil..not for the end user at least.

I definitely can't pull my Takuma wings apart and i have scrapped them over the rocks a fair bit while in hood river.

IMO if it just spits or falls apart then yeah it should definitely have a warranty claim put in.

If it hits a reef hard enough then i think this could be a bit different as i just don't think many things made of carbon and epoxy can handle this kind of stuff.

Obviously we are all only hearing one side and we all know there are 3 sides to every story but if Takuma don't reply here as i doubt they will like many brands the forums get a little scary. I come on here as maybe i am just not that smart????

Warranty or not it's always hard with out all the info, out side if this we are just taking sides with half the information.

Disclaimer, i sell takuma but only do so as i ride it my self and think the wing shapes as a all-round foil is as better or better than most.

Jacko,
This was just an unloaded knock on the reef whilst grabbing my board and starting to paddle back out, clipped the front corner, took a small dent/scuff and chip in the paint,rear corner/tip split under the paint, saw water dripping out a few days later and peeled it open with my fingers,
no more no less, nothing to hide or fake stories to tell.
not really sure why I'm trying to justify myself, I've more than enough experience glassing boards/boats to know more than most what laminated things should and shouldn't do in normal situations.

Actually did a big roundhouse on it a while back and went straight into the reef on the rebound full speed and just got scratches in the bottom so the bulk of it is tough enough.
the rail to rail carve is really friggin good on em.

Select to expand quote

sozz said..
Jacko,
This was just an unloaded knock on the reef whilst grabbing my board and starting to paddle back out, clipped the front corner, took a small dent/scuff and chip in the paint,rear corner/tip split under the paint, saw water dripping out a few days later and peeled it open with my fingers,
no more no less, nothing to hide or fake stories to tell.
not really sure why I'm trying to justify myself, I've more than enough experience glassing boards/boats to know more than most what laminated things should and shouldn't do in normal situations.

Actually did a big roundhouse on it a while back and went straight into the reef on the rebound full speed and just got scratches in the bottom so the bulk of it is tough enough.
the rail to rail carve is really friggin good on em.

Yeah please don't take it as though i am having a go, i would actually like to see it all pushed through as it sounds like something could have been wrong but not really my call and i am guessing they see it a different way. No need to justify any thing to us either and more than likely everyone just would rather help.

Forums are always really funny and touchie when it comes to this kind off stuff and i guess why Laurie ends up locking or deleting this kind of thing when it gets out of hand.

Hope the patch job holds and bummed this happened to you.

Jacko

Mate the patch job is solid, double layer carbon both sides of the wing tip,

spoke with takuma again just now and they want absolutely nothing to do with it,
they say it is strong but because of the thinner profile it will be damaged if you hit the reef and that's the end of it, so they clearly don't stand behind their product for the individual customer.

Good on you for getting stuff sorted for your customers mate, solid customer service is seemingly rare in this business.

Select to expand quote

sozz said..
Cyril the main boss was involved on instagram and received a message with pics documenting the issue 7 weeks ago, nothing back,

Which is understandable. A boss undercutting his employees and retailers and partners publicly on issues where he does not have all the details would be a serious mismanagement and not good for a sane business in the long run.

If you are so experienced in composites, you should know that shocks that seem similar from the outside can have dramatically different effects, notably because composites are not an homogeneous material. That it did not happen again is telling.

Colas, the laminate of the upper and lower skin failed and peeled apart with very little 'persuasion' there is no high tech scientific investigation needed on this detail , it's a simple manufacturing flaw, no more no less, don't try and be a smart arse.

also I may add that the boss contacted me first after an employee saw my problem online so again don't try and be clever about details you are unaware of, this was also after other avenues of customer service had been exhausted.

Select to expand quote

colas said..

sozz said..
Cyril the main boss was involved on instagram and received a message with pics documenting the issue 7 weeks ago, nothing back,

Which is understandable. A boss undercutting his employees and retailers and partners publicly on issues where he does not have all the details would be a serious mismanagement and not good for a sane business in the long run.

No matey. The retailer really should have taken the defective item back and sent it back to the supplier. It is entirely possible that at least one of those wings left Thailand with an inherent flaw and it ended up in the custody of Soz....why not? It even happens to Boeing and Airbus from time to time.

Honestly, I think the retailer cockblocked Soz, and left him without any recourse but to contact Takuma directly....and unfortunately they did nothing to help. Now here we are discussing the merits of spending money on something that head office doesn't want to fully back.

Really Colas, if you want to talk about sanity of business practices, the sanest thing would be to make the customer happy by addressing their reasonable concerns.

Replace or refund are the two cheapest options for the company in any situation like this, unless the manufacturer thinks they will be doing too much of it...because....reasons....

Select to expand quote

sozz said..
don't try and be clever about details you are unaware of, this was also after other avenues of customer service had been exhausted.

Well, if you post here a rant without all these details, expect some septicism.

But I maintain that carbon is VERY sensitive to impacts on hard surfaces, and it can induce catastrophic failures, such as massive delaminations. It happens quite often with carbon paddles for instance.

Takuma in USA is nonexistent. Products look great, but USA distribution does not appear to be a thing. Takuma USA site is pitiful, has no current product. I'd love to try their foils and boards but they are not available here in USA. Bummer. Sorry about your wing, sozz, that's a real shame they won't replace it. Not a good way to develop customer loyalty. Takuma obviously doesn't understand that if they replace this one wing, they may sell 10 others to those that hear about your story and how they stand behind their product. Oh well, the hydrofoil industry is hot and very dynamic, there will be many players in and out before the market stabilizes.

15+ sessions in and I am gobsmacked at how good these are. Been out in everything from 2' rollers, head high clean with no wind and sphincter tightening off shores, reef, point, river mouth and beach breaks, and conditions that were perfect through to what must have looked like a solo re-make of the Cruel Sea. No wing switching, tail angling washers or mast moving (after initial school boy error of placing the mast where the previous one was, forgetting the longer mast to wing distance...). Feels intuitive and amplifies the effect of good technique, its like having an inbuilt coach. More speed and control, more precision in turns which my confidence and skills are having to play catch up with. I'm rubbish at pumping, but can now kick out of a wave and make it a good distance back out. 2 for 1 now seems possible which it didn't before.
Any concerns I had about the winglets / it being alu are gone. As you might have noticed I'm proper frothing. What a great bit of kit.

Crappy, sorry to hear of your experiences. Sounds to me like an issue with the lams not bonded properly, so a small amount of water = delam.
IMHO a "customer is always right" policy is the best long-term policy for a company that wishes to survive, even when the customer is not right, the cost of the bad PR far outweighs the lost product from possibly unnecessary warranty returns. I have worked retail and restaurants and other service businesses, and know how frustrating that can be at times, but it's the way it is.

Not rubbing salt in the wound, but just as an example: Slingshot has now warrantied my 84 wing twice, once for a problem with the mast connector loosening up, once due to delam as a result of unrepaired cracks from reef strikes -- and both times where I told the sales rep it was my fault and I don't expect a warranty, I would have been happy with buying a replacement at cost. That's what above and beyond customer service looks like. And that's what companies do when they are looking to expand market share and be around a decade from now.

Ah nice one Mwstard! I think I know where that pic is taken... properly off the beaten track! Not many other foilers at that spot I'll bet... or people full stop

Had 2 Slingshot wings replaced no cost and no problem ( H4 and infinity) both split exactly the way yours has done.
All I had to do was upload some pics and a short video to their Warranty section on the website.They have changed the manufacture process now to stop this problem ......was very happy with the Slingshot response.

Anyone out there using the full carbon 1600 LOL setup? I'm considering getting one and am interested to hear if the carbon is worth the extra money? The carbon seems like ok value in the UK. It's not too much more than the alloy and comes with a 75cm mast which is appealing. Look forward to hearing any advice?

Select to expand quote

sweats said..
Anyone out there using the full carbon 1600 LOL setup? I'm considering getting one and am interested to hear if the carbon is worth the extra money? The carbon seems like ok value in the UK. It's not too much more than the alloy and comes with a 75cm mast which is appealing. Look forward to hearing any advice?

just spunk a little bit more and get a gofoil gl setup and know you have gear that's bomber strong for your money.

Hi Sozz. Have a GoFoil IWA/M200/GL210 but was tempted by the LOL as well

Select to expand quote

sweats said..
Anyone out there using the full carbon 1600 LOL setup? I'm considering getting one and am interested to hear if the carbon is worth the extra money? The carbon seems like ok value in the UK. It's not too much more than the alloy and comes with a 75cm mast which is appealing. Look forward to hearing any advice?

Hey Sweats

I have the 1600 and carbon mast. It is a very nice setup, there is still some flex in the mast compared the gofoils but the profiles are completely different. I find the ride on the Takuma carbon mast so much smoother through the water then the gofoils.

Cheers

Travis

Cheers Travis. May have to pull the plug in the New Year. How do you find the LOL 1600 wing compared to an IWA?

Select to expand quote

sweats said..
Cheers Travis. May have to pull the plug in the New Year. How do you find the LOL 1600 wing compared to an IWA?

I have not rode the IWA too much but I can tell you the 1600 is way faster!

Select to expand quote

sweats said..
Hi Sozz. Have a GoFoil IWA/M200/GL210 but was tempted by the LOL as well

If you have a GL210 I can't imagine you'd get anything extra from the lol wing, certainly less pump.

there is an American guy starting up will be selling the very same lol wing under his own brand 'avante innovations' direct for cheaper than takuma in the new year.

www.instagram.com/avante_innovations/?igshid=eqkasxaf5ghw

Select to expand quote

sozz said..

sweats said..
Hi Sozz. Have a GoFoil IWA/M200/GL210 but was tempted by the LOL as well

If you have a GL210 I can't imagine you'd get anything extra from the lol wing, certainly less pump.

there is an American guy starting up will be selling the very same lol wing under his own brand 'avante innovations' direct for cheaper than takuma in the new year.

www.instagram.com/avante_innovations/?igshid=eqkasxaf5ghw

Seems like a weird set up to do a deal with someone just so they can undercut you but each to there own I guess.

Trav if you do an apples for apples review, go by when they were designed you should complete the IWA to the takuma V400 and the LOL to the GL. Cant compare old to new!

Select to expand quote

sozz said..

sweats said..
Hi Sozz. Have a GoFoil IWA/M200/GL210 but was tempted by the LOL as well

If you have a GL210 I can't imagine you'd get anything extra from the lol wing, certainly less pump.

there is an American guy starting up will be selling the very same lol wing under his own brand 'avante innovations' direct for cheaper than takuma in the new year.

www.instagram.com/avante_innovations/?igshid=eqkasxaf5ghw

Looks like the cost is still the same plus add the postage cost and the dollar conversion is way too expensive and at the moment the LOL in OZ are onsale.

Select to expand quote

paul.j said..

sozz said..

sweats said..
Hi Sozz. Have a GoFoil IWA/M200/GL210 but was tempted by the LOL as well

If you have a GL210 I can't imagine you'd get anything extra from the lol wing, certainly less pump.

there is an American guy starting up will be selling the very same lol wing under his own brand 'avante innovations' direct for cheaper than takuma in the new year.

www.instagram.com/avante_innovations/?igshid=eqkasxaf5ghw

Seems like a weird set up to do a deal with someone just so they can undercut you but each to there own I guess.

Yeh kind of a weird setup, he's doing the the e-foils also, all the same gear from the same production line,
guess it means that we can all have the same stuff if we buy the numbers from Taiwan.