www.facebook.com/groups/wingsurf.australia/permalink/659696531880200/

Just saw this on FB, I could find too much more info on it though. Not good!

Unfortunately the attitude of some riding in crowds and nears surfers and swimmers will cause issues.

Please, not matter how good you think you are, foil away from others. There is so many awesome spots to explore where surfers and swimmers don'y go.

Let's hope they don't go through with the ban.

Ride safe,

JB

Yes definitely potential for a few bad actors to ruin the reputation of foilers amongst the broader community. Maybe its time we put some thought into getting an agreed code of conduct out into the foiling community. What would this code of conduct be?

Also can see there is a lot of misconceptions from non foilers about just how dangerous foiling really is. Talk of " massive swords" or " people getting cut in half" I am not too sure what can be done to dispell these myths.

Also if anyone has any further info or petitions etc. regarding the potential Randwick city council foiling ban please post it here. We should all be concerned with any bans on foiling anywhere.

Interesting that in a region with Flags on every beach the primary motivation for the ban is stated as protecting swimmers. Yes some people are dangerous on foils but so are some people on lots of equipment The surf community has largely sorted these issues out themselves with reasonable results in the past. Why intervene now.

I would not like to be hit by a large heavy SUP or a hipster's 9'2" nose rider without a legrope not to mention a large and heavy clubbie board being ridden in good surf.

Councils are failing at so many of the rate payers expectations yet this is a priority.

The council should be required to establish that foiling is a problem backed up by real evidence.Records of injuries, near misses , reckless riding etc. To ban something based on a perceived risk is not professional enough. Went through this same problem years ago with Hang gliders landing on beaches. Council wanted to ban it based on perceived risk only. Once we demonstrated the number of recorded flights vs the number of actual incidents and none to the public, combined with our risk management policy, they had to back down and accept that we had more information and demonstrated knowledge of the "actual " risk. It's a pain in the arse to go down that track , better off finding who is concerned about what and why and try to placate them early on to save the hassle of lots of paperwork and meetings.Good Luck !

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Youngbreezy said..
www.facebook.com/groups/wingsurf.australia/permalink/659696531880200/

Just saw this on FB, I could find too much more info on it though. Not good!

At the moment Foiling (any kind) is only permitted before the Life Guards go on duty (before 7am and after 5pm) on patrolled Randwick council beaches & any time on unpatrolled beaches (like Malabar & La Perouse etc), that is all I know so I wonder what else they can do?

I can see this becoming an issue everywhere as it gets more popular, unfortunately, perfect foiling waves are usually inhabited by learner surfers, as we all know adult learner surfers are exploding post covid, better start learning how to downwind

Yeh DW is my escape plan

Howsit from California,We're addressing this same issue! I don't think I can't post a link yet but please look up what I wrote about the Surfer's Code to help everyone get along. Hydro Theory is a nonprofit and we'd love to help!

Yeeeew!!!

Yikes! We see similar issues locally, in that the only decent foiling wave is where the beginners and kids flock. Plus the SUPs that aren't allowed to ride the main breaks and the B-team longboarders who figure they are hot s**t kings of the kook wave. Too many riders, too few spots, not enough waves, conflict is unavoidable. Our foil crew is mostly respectful, but things do get a bit silly when wave starved.

As a foiler, you may be confident you're in control and feel there's lots of room for safety, but the people around you don't understand the mechanics ... I've been surprised a few times to find out just how scared these bystanders may be. And their parents are even more worried, as from a distance, it looks like you carved within inches of them even if you were 10 feet away. It might not be reasonable or rational, but the fear is real.

The impact is similar to kiting, where it's easiest to just ban the scary thing. I think ongoing education and self-policing is the answer. Be an ambassador for the sport. Be friendly, explain how it works. Be courteous, give up a wave and hoot in a beginner. Be humble: in the beach use totem pole, we are pretty much at the bottom in priority, so put in the work to keep things chill! And when that local foiler keeps exercising poor judgement in riding too close or taking chances, confront the issue with a frank discussion about them wrecking it for everyone -- before authorities step in to do it.

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SugarSurfer said..
Howsit from California,We're addressing this same issue! I don't think I can't post a link yet but please look up what I wrote about the Surfer's Code to help everyone get along. Hydro Theory is a nonprofit and we'd love to help!

Yeeeew!!!

Here's what I found googling those terms. Pretty sure this is what SugarSurfer was referring to.

hydrotheory.org/articles/2021/9/13/ou4qvttnr5q0i9y8zpszcnre2fznmr

We have the same problem in France but fortunatly the French Surfing Federation and some people are trying to solve those issues.

It's the small number of f-wits that wreck it for everyone. I called out the Noosa kite surfers DWing through kids in the shore break years ago. I think Sunshine Beach introduced a ban a year later. Pt Road Knight in Vic has prone foilers riding without leg ropes. Arrogant cockheads. Regardless of control levels we all have to to act better than anyone else in the lineup. Show respect. Give away waves and most importantly smile and say hi to everyone you pass. Suggest the Botany Bay wing crew quickly form a club to show organisation and an ability to implement riding rules. Maybe instigate a self managed entry and exit gates on the beach like water skiers and jetskiers have in certain areas.

Buddy sent this video, which is an interesting example along the lines of this thread: .be

Mesmerizing riding, smooth fluid style, the foiling dream. But then again, through the lineup, winding around surfers, turning onto waves with surfers already riding. Etiquette violation? Potentially dangerous?

From the surfer perspective, scrambling to get a wave or two after work before dark, then this guy whizzing around getting 10 minute rides? Or someone teaching their kid, who's already nervous out there, dealing with these fly bys? Easy to see how people would get pissed off.

Seems like something that was new and stoking a year ago, but in the new era, someone that need a talking to? Even if they are fully in control, it's bad modelling for the less talented foilers who figure it's open season and then hurt someone.

That Surfer Code was interesting and useful. One thing that needs to be spelled out more clearly is the etiquette on pumping multiples, as the pumper generally figures they have priority as they are already up, but the paddlers all looking to get in figure the opposite. I think the paddler has priority, as the pumper already just got a wave, it's piggy to take the next one too. The pumper also has choices, to keep pumping to the next one or at least to turn wide and not disrupt the paddler's take off -- very poor form to turn towards the surfer and squeeze them out (and potentially very dangerous).

Interesting times indeed!

Winging should if it hasn't already, partner with Sailing Australia. Won't be long before winging joins the olympics anyway. Proning is another story - can't speak for anything other the northern beaches and even then, haven't see much more than guys at at long reef. But with every man and his dog wanting to have a crack at surfing, often with limited at best swimming abilities, yeah I can see the fear when someone is screaming around you.
Fear mongering will be the useful tool here to ban the sport from beaches. Insert random beginner, battler and older group of people and their plight will see it leave beaches for good.

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juandesooka said..
Buddy sent this video, which is an interesting example along the lines of this thread:

.be

Mesmerizing riding, smooth fluid style, the foiling dream. But then again, through the lineup, winding around surfers, turning onto waves with surfers already riding. Etiquette violation? Potentially dangerous?

From the surfer perspective, scrambling to get a wave or two after work before dark, then this guy whizzing around getting 10 minute rides? Or someone teaching their kid, who's already nervous out there, dealing with these fly bys? Easy to see how people would get pissed off.

Seems like something that was new and stoking a year ago, but in the new era, someone that need a talking to? Even if they are fully in control, it's bad modelling for the less talented foilers who figure it's open season and then hurt someone.

That Surfer Code was interesting and useful. One thing that needs to be spelled out more clearly is the etiquette on pumping multiples, as the pumper generally figures they have priority as they are already up, but the paddlers all looking to get in figure the opposite. I think the paddler has priority, as the pumper already just got a wave, it's piggy to take the next one too. The pumper also has choices, to keep pumping to the next one or at least to turn wide and not disrupt the paddler's take off -- very poor form to turn towards the surfer and squeeze them out (and potentially very dangerous).

Interesting times indeed!

Yeh don't know about you guys but if I'm pumping for a multiple and I see a surfer paddling in I always give way. Probably for the reason you said above or just because I'm not a greedy prick. Most the time I will just keep pumping to the next. or turn well before and stay out of their way.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/13/hydrofoil-surfing-could-be-banned-at-some-of-sydneys-most-popular-beaches

foiling just went mainstream media haha

I've already been dealing with buffoonery on the eFoil front, but I could always foresee that the more popular the different genres of foiling get the more problematic it will be

not only that, but the drone flying in that video above would get you hunted by CASA for sure!

This is and was a long time coming. Nobody wanted to address it in the beginning and now here we are.

I don't care if its the best wave.. Surfing and foiling do not match.. go down the beach.

All these guys on instagram going for 8 waves, dodging and weaving back out through beginners and longboards. Not cool, never was..

How is a beginner trying to get the drop on a longboard supposed to know which way James Casey, Or Kai Lenny is going to go as they are pumping back out to get their 8th wave??

Its a whole new dimension.. pumping back out.. As a new surfer you are already worried about your line and other surfers (At least with the same goal, and paddling in the same direction), now you have Sky Rama trying to get the air shot(not landing) for Instagrunt.

Not sure why anyone is surprised here.

I am actually surprised that we have not seen more of this already.

Here it comes.

Its very simple.

Do not foil around any surfers. Go down the beach.

I really only foil now and I never have issues because I foil alone away from anyone.

-red

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/13/hydrofoil-surfing-could-be-banned-at-some-of-sydneys-most-popular-beaches

My personal etiquette goals for foiling at non foil spots are:
-Only pump out as far as the farthest surfer inside (don't pass anyone on the way back out).
- If anyone is mentions they're uncomfortable I leave
-Don't take off if anyone's kid is inside or any surfer too close.
-Be predictable. surfers expect people in the pocket. if you aren't there stay far away from anyone paddling out. if you fly close to a surfer, fly low with your board skimming the water, surfers are used to people riding on the water vs above.
-wear a leash

this can change based on how familiar and friendly the crowd is.

Basically if its a surf spot act like you're a surfer, just riding a foil. be extra respectful, give people waves, and if someone doesn't want you there you leave regardless of the reason.

Most of the time this defeats the purpose of foiling but it generally avoids problems. Usually more fun to just ride a foil spot!

I also think foiler's need to realize what kite's have long ago. We're at the bottom of the pecking order. Like it or not, that's how it is. A kite can catch every single wave of a set. They give way to surfer's. A foil can pump out and catch most waves of a set. We need to give way to surfer's. Not take off in the white water and go around them.

Most of all though. Just wear a leash. There are a bunch of styles out there. Pick one you're fine with. There's no reason to not wear a leash.

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Hdip said..
I also think foiler's need to realize what kite's have long ago. We're at the bottom of the pecking order. Like it or not, that's how it is. A kite can catch every single wave of a set. They give way to surfer's. A foil can pump out and catch most waves of a set. We need to give way to surfer's. Not take off in the white water and go around them.

Most of all though. Just wear a leash. There are a bunch of styles out there. Pick one you're fine with. There's no reason to not wear a leash.

Personally I don't know anyone that foils that doesn't wear a leash, is this common in other parts of Oz or happens more in other countries?

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juandesooka said..
Buddy sent this video, which is an interesting example along the lines of this thread:

.be

I didn't have an issue with it until he pumped through the lineup to grab a wave. I'd be nervous. I've seen what a windsurf fin can do to a board and body. Foil smart. The drone would piss me off more, JetSkis of the air

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redtx said..
This is and was a long time coming. Nobody wanted to address it in the beginning and now here we are.

I don't care if its the best wave.. Surfing and foiling do not match.. go down the beach.

All these guys on instagram going for 8 waves, dodging and weaving back out through beginners and longboards. Not cool, never was..

How is a beginner trying to get the drop on a longboard supposed to know which way James Casey, Or Kai Lenny is going to go as they are pumping back out to get their 8th wave??

Its a whole new dimension.. pumping back out.. As a new surfer you are already worried about your line and other surfers (At least with the same goal, and paddling in the same direction), now you have Sky Rama trying to get the air shot(not landing) for Instagrunt.

Not sure why anyone is surprised here.

I am actually surprised that we have not seen more of this already.

Here it comes.

Its very simple.

Do not foil around any surfers. Go down the beach.

I really only foil now and I never have issues because I foil alone away from anyone.

-red

Really good points here but you are implying some form of commonsense in frothing foilers starting out. Unfortunately these bans will increase because we do not have an association to go into bat for us with the council. The WA kite crew really stepped it up with the council when kiting bans were looking imminent in Perth, achieving a great compromise agreement that works.

Interesting in the article it mentions there have been no injuries from foils on other people in their area but it has happened other places. Strange concept to ban something on. All the focus seems to be on efoils, not sure we want to be grouped with them.

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FoilAddict said..
My personal etiquette goals for foiling at non foil spots are:
-Only pump out as far as the farthest surfer inside (don't pass anyone on the way back out).
- If anyone is mentions they're uncomfortable I leave
-Don't take off if anyone's kid is inside or any surfer too close.
-Be predictable. surfers expect people in the pocket. if you aren't there stay far away from anyone paddling out. if you fly close to a surfer, fly low with your board skimming the water, surfers are used to people riding on the water vs above.
-wear a leash

this can change based on how familiar and friendly the crowd is.

Basically if its a surf spot act like you're a surfer, just riding a foil. be extra respectful, give people waves, and if someone doesn't want you there you leave regardless of the reason.

Most of the time this defeats the purpose of foiling but it generally avoids problems. Usually more fun to just ride a foil spot!

Good words and etiquette

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hilly said..

redtx said..
This is and was a long time coming. Nobody wanted to address it in the beginning and now here we are.

I don't care if its the best wave.. Surfing and foiling do not match.. go down the beach.

All these guys on instagram going for 8 waves, dodging and weaving back out through beginners and longboards. Not cool, never was..

How is a beginner trying to get the drop on a longboard supposed to know which way James Casey, Or Kai Lenny is going to go as they are pumping back out to get their 8th wave??

Its a whole new dimension.. pumping back out.. As a new surfer you are already worried about your line and other surfers (At least with the same goal, and paddling in the same direction), now you have Sky Rama trying to get the air shot(not landing) for Instagrunt.

Not sure why anyone is surprised here.

I am actually surprised that we have not seen more of this already.

Here it comes.

Its very simple.

Do not foil around any surfers. Go down the beach.

I really only foil now and I never have issues because I foil alone away from anyone.

-red

Really good points here but you are implying some form of commonsense in frothing foilers starting out. Unfortunately these bans will increase because we do not have an association to go into bat for us with the council. The WA kite crew really stepped it up with the council when kiting bans were looking imminent in Perth, achieving a great compromise agreement that works.

Interesting in the article it mentions there have been no injuries from foils on other people in their area but it has happened other places. Strange concept to ban something on. All the focus seems to be on efoils, not sure we want to be grouped with them.

You are spot on hilly, you need to have some formal body to act as one voice.Had many battles in the past over hang gliding launch sites in National Parks, Council reserves etc.If we hadn't had the HGFA (hang gliding federation of Australia) we would have lost sites everywhere. As much as I dislike the idea of organised bodies for freedom sports like foiling, it may end up being the only way to stop these bans.
Interestingly legally, a lot of these bans don't stand up as it takes forever to get something into law and as such there are no fines that can be applied or administered...... not that I suggest you ignore them ??