www.realwatersports.com/blogs/news/naish-s25-vs-ozone-wasp-v1

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IWB said..
Hey Macca,
The 6m Ozone wasp is a solid choice if looking to get going earlier. I use the 6m from about 12-19kts. I have mainly been using the Starboard foils, 1700, 2000 and 2400 and switch up with the wings to maximize my wind range and the type of conditions. Since you have the naish foil 1650, I would recommend adding the 2000 and even the 2450 foils to your quiver so to maximize your wind range.

Thanks for the advice IWB. It is the 10-15 knot range that I want to get out more if possible. At 70kgs I am thinking I will get the 2000 Naish foil and see how that goes with the 6m wing. Surely that will be enough lift. If not it just means I am a total muppet and have no idea.

Then I guess if I really want to extend the range could get the 2450 and the Naish 7.2m wing that is coming soon. With that set up you could get out in almost any conditions I would have thought.

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emmafoils said..
www.realwatersports.com/blogs/news/naish-s25-vs-ozone-wasp-v1

Thanks emmafoils. That is an excellent comparison. For $350 less I might as well stick to the Ozone as they both seem very good but in slightly different ways. Really think on a big wing I would like the window though. Decisions, decisions.....

I'm ten sessions in, the biggest leap for me was pushing the foil all the way forward and bring it back from there if needed. You don't have that massive push of lift as you do in the surf. If I was to learn from scratch I'd find somewhere offshore @15 knots. The chop when learning is hideous. Your on a Sup so paddling back to shore is no biggy

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Where did you go? No wind today.

it was on the river last saturday in easterly wind around 12 to 17 knots. I was on a 4m wasp with 2000cm2 NP xl wing, I did get up on foil twice but both times ran into a sand bank/ rock immediately

I got out yesterday in winds around 10 knots and trudged along slowly. I did however make one really big progression in that i was able to hold ground and not drift off downwind. My big mistake first time out was trying to fly the wing like a kite, pushing the leading edge forward and upwind in an attempt to go upwind which actually had the opposite effect. My second time out I was moving the wing further back and to my side, sheeted in nice and tight, this caused my board to round up into the wind and I was able to sail upwind at very slow speeds. A local wing ding enthusiast had also recommended that I move thing mast all the way forward and i think this was helpful in my ability to go upwind.

I am very used to zipping around behind a kite so when i eyed off my projected path i had thought it would just take a minute or two to get out and back. After what seemed like ages I was only half way along my intended path and I had to turn around because i was getting sore on that side. When compared to kiting, trudging along at non foiling speeds does really suck but its the learning process that is very rewarding. i feel like I will get there just need more power!!

I am 100kg with a 4m wasp (on loan from a friend) and 2000cm2 wing. If I had the required skills would it be possible for me to get up foiling in winds around 12 to 15 knots? Or is this just dreaming.

Ideally i will look to get a 5m wing once this whole corona s##t storm sorts itself out

Hey Younybreezy,

I'd definitely recommend a 5m wing if you want to maximise your time on the water foiling. I recently picked up a set of Naish wings 5.3m and 3.6m. I'm now getting out in winds as low as 10-12knots. I've been doing this since August 2019 now. I weigh in at 88kg and using the axis 1000HA always. Enjoy the learning curve this sport is addictive once you get out into the ocean on waves and bumps.

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Youngbreezy said..

Where did you go? No wind today.

it was on the river last saturday in easterly wind around 12 to 17 knots. I was on a 4m wasp with 2000cm2 NP xl wing, I did get up on foil twice but both times ran into a sand bank/ rock immediately

I got out yesterday in winds around 10 knots and trudged along slowly. I did however make one really big progression in that i was able to hold ground and not drift off downwind. My big mistake first time out was trying to fly the wing like a kite, pushing the leading edge forward and upwind in an attempt to go upwind which actually had the opposite effect. My second time out I was moving the wing further back and to my side, sheeted in nice and tight, this caused my board to round up into the wind and I was able to sail upwind at very slow speeds. A local wing ding enthusiast had also recommended that I move thing mast all the way forward and i think this was helpful in my ability to go upwind.

I am very used to zipping around behind a kite so when i eyed off my projected path i had thought it would just take a minute or two to get out and back. After what seemed like ages I was only half way along my intended path and I had to turn around because i was getting sore on that side. When compared to kiting, trudging along at non foiling speeds does really suck but its the learning process that is very rewarding. i feel like I will get there just need more power!!

I am 100kg with a 4m wasp (on loan from a friend) and 2000cm2 wing. If I had the required skills would it be possible for me to get up foiling in winds around 12 to 15 knots? Or is this just dreaming.

Ideally i will look to get a 5m wing once this whole corona s##t storm sorts itself out

4m wing, 2000cm2, 15 knots, 100kg.... possible but you will be working hard for it.

Thanks for the replies guys

One other question

Does holding the wing more vertically really provide more forward drive? Now this is obviously providing your not catching a wing tip, all my sailing knowledge would suggest that the wing being vertical would provide the maximum forward drive but when I have the wing in my hands it feels like a bit of angle to the wing helps it to catch more wind and gives it a bit more lift/power.

What are people's thoughts?

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Youngbreezy said..
Thanks for the replies guys

One other question

Does holding the wing more vertically really provide more forward drive? Now this is obviously providing your not catching a wing tip, all my sailing knowledge would suggest that the wing being vertical would provide the maximum forward drive but when I have the wing in my hands it feels like a bit of angle to the wing helps it to catch more wind and gives it a bit more lift/power.

What are people's thoughts?

IMO more vertical = more power.

You need to balance the upward lift versus forward drive, this is greatly dependent on board speed, wind speed and foil sizes used. I start off with the wing angled at 45-60 degrees overhead. This allows me to unweight the board and pump up onto foil. Once up and flying it's a lot easier to hold the wing more vertical. Here is a few more pics of my wing position when up on foil. Keep those wing tips clear of the water!

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baldy123 said..
You need to balance the upward lift versus forward drive, this is greatly dependent on board speed, wind speed and foil sizes used. I start off with the wing angled at 45-60 degrees overhead. This allows me to unweight the board and pump up onto foil. Once up and flying it's a lot easier to hold the wing more vertical. Here is a few more pics of my wing position when up on foil. Keep those wing tips clear of the water!

Great shots!

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Youngbreezy said..

Where did you go? No wind today.

it was on the river last saturday in easterly wind around 12 to 17 knots. I was on a 4m wasp with 2000cm2 NP xl wing, I did get up on foil twice but both times ran into a sand bank/ rock immediately

I got out yesterday in winds around 10 knots and trudged along slowly. I did however make one really big progression in that i was able to hold ground and not drift off downwind. My big mistake first time out was trying to fly the wing like a kite, pushing the leading edge forward and upwind in an attempt to go upwind which actually had the opposite effect. My second time out I was moving the wing further back and to my side, sheeted in nice and tight, this caused my board to round up into the wind and I was able to sail upwind at very slow speeds. A local wing ding enthusiast had also recommended that I move thing mast all the way forward and i think this was helpful in my ability to go upwind.

I am very used to zipping around behind a kite so when i eyed off my projected path i had thought it would just take a minute or two to get out and back. After what seemed like ages I was only half way along my intended path and I had to turn around because i was getting sore on that side. When compared to kiting, trudging along at non foiling speeds does really suck but its the learning process that is very rewarding. i feel like I will get there just need more power!!

I am 100kg with a 4m wasp (on loan from a friend) and 2000cm2 wing. If I had the required skills would it be possible for me to get up foiling in winds around 12 to 15 knots? Or is this just dreaming.

Ideally i will look to get a 5m wing once this whole corona s##t storm sorts itself out

Hey Breezy
I think that was you that I was chatting with the other day at the river.
I was on the 6'8 One board and had the 5mtr F-One Swing.
Yep the combination of mast right forward and wing back is the way to get upwind when you are not foiling.
I knew I shouldn't have bothered going out for that one more try the wind virtually stopped completely.

Yes that's right mate, thanks for the tips!

The advice you gave me and also seeing you were able to sail upwind in very low winds meant the next time I went out i was able to hold ground and not waste too much time and energy doing the walk of shame

Great info guys. Learning a lot from all your experiences. Great photos as well baldy123.

So went and bought the 2000 Naish front wing today to go with my 1,650.

Also wanted to buy the 6m Naish S25 Wing, but was told they will not be in stock until August! Found a 6m Ozone wing available now so will get that next Tuesday, as can not wait until August.

Will be out tomorrow (rain permitting). Looking like 12-14 knots. Not great but still going to practice.

Hopefully at 70kgs, 111L 7'4" Sunvoa SUP Foil board, 4m Ozone wing and 2000 Naish foil I can get closer to getting up on foil in those conditions. I so bad want the real fun to begin.

Question for Sydneysiders. I go to Kyeemagh, but have only gone there in a NE. Sunday looks like SSW and 20 knots. Do guys go out in SSW at Kyeemagh? i think it will be ok. Thanks

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baldy123 said..
You need to balance the upward lift versus forward drive, this is greatly dependent on board speed, wind speed and foil sizes used. I start off with the wing angled at 45-60 degrees overhead. This allows me to unweight the board and pump up onto foil. Once up and flying it's a lot easier to hold the wing more vertical. Here is a few more pics of my wing position when up on foil. Keep those wing tips clear of the water!

Great tips for wing handling.

Looking at the pictures, I assume you are right foot dominant and your front strap is offset? Does that mean you never ride left foot forward? Do you water start "toeside"?

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Macca1410 said..
Great info guys. Learning a lot from all your experiences. Great photos as well baldy123.

So went and bought the 2000 Naish front wing today to go with my 1,650.

Also wanted to buy the 6m Naish S25 Wing, but was told they will not be in stock until August! Found a 6m Ozone wing available now so will get that next Tuesday, as can not wait until August.

Will be out tomorrow (rain permitting). Looking like 12-14 knots. Not great but still going to practice.

Hopefully at 70kgs, 111L 7'4" Sunvoa SUP Foil board, 4m Ozone wing and 2000 Naish foil I can get closer to getting up on foil in those conditions. I so bad want the real fun to begin.

Question for Sydneysiders. I go to Kyeemagh, but have only gone there in a NE. Sunday looks like SSW and 20 knots. Do guys go out in SSW at Kyeemagh? i think it will be ok. Thanks

Hey mate - sadly the beaches are all closed along that side of botany bay all the way to Dolls Point...

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emmafoils said..

baldy123 said..
You need to balance the upward lift versus forward drive, this is greatly dependent on board speed, wind speed and foil sizes used. I start off with the wing angled at 45-60 degrees overhead. This allows me to unweight the board and pump up onto foil. Once up and flying it's a lot easier to hold the wing more vertical. Here is a few more pics of my wing position when up on foil. Keep those wing tips clear of the water!

Great tips for wing handling.

Looking at the pictures, I assume you are right foot dominant and your front strap is offset? Does that mean you never ride left foot forward? Do you water start "toeside"?

Hey Emmafoils.

Yep I'm a goofy footer. I do switch body a lot and just leave feet out of the straps when riding left foot forward on the wingding. This works fine for me. When starting I always have my body toward the wing. It's easier to pump this way. You can start switch if it's windy, its is just more awkward and you have to point the board further downwind. Here's a pic of a 6'4 and 6'8 Sunova side by side. Strapped and no straps.

Interesting foot strap positioning. Seems the choice some pros. I will try it.

Hey baldy,

Are those custom sunova boards, i don't see them on the sunova website

Production Model

New model 'Aviator'. Collaboration between Sunova foil (Marcus Tardrew) and Casey.aus (James Casey).

download the Full Catalog from the Sunova website for all boards:drive.google.com/file/d/1mlxfFPrSzzKoL9IODudRf9nyeLIXB9IX/view

Been looking at getting into Sub Foiling and been looking at boards . I still don't see many boards with holes for foot straps straight in line so you can switch feet as you do on kite surfboards with straps Even if you have to water start both ways, JB the only one I seen with that set up. Any reason why . On a sup I surf right foot for-would or left foot for-would depending on direction I wish to go.

I'm hoping to learn to wing this summer as well with my two teenage boys. We have limited time and a short season here in New England. From what I have been reading it seems the bigger wing the easier it will be to learn? So the Armstrong 2400 would be easier to learn on than the Axis 1020 assuming the same board (120L). I am about 83kg my boys are about 68kg. Is that correct?

Already have a Naish 6.0. Thinking I should get a 3.6 or 4.6 if I can find one.

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Alysum said..

Macca1410 said..
Great info guys. Learning a lot from all your experiences. Great photos as well baldy123.

So went and bought the 2000 Naish front wing today to go with my 1,650.

Also wanted to buy the 6m Naish S25 Wing, but was told they will not be in stock until August! Found a 6m Ozone wing available now so will get that next Tuesday, as can not wait until August.

Will be out tomorrow (rain permitting). Looking like 12-14 knots. Not great but still going to practice.

Hopefully at 70kgs, 111L 7'4" Sunvoa SUP Foil board, 4m Ozone wing and 2000 Naish foil I can get closer to getting up on foil in those conditions. I so bad want the real fun to begin.

Question for Sydneysiders. I go to Kyeemagh, but have only gone there in a NE. Sunday looks like SSW and 20 knots. Do guys go out in SSW at Kyeemagh? i think it will be ok. Thanks

Hey mate - sadly the beaches are all closed along that side of botany bay all the way to Dolls Point...

Wasn't aware of that. Was there last weekend and it was fine. Things change quickly though. Oh well that's that then. Best to stay inside and do the right thing anyway.

snest,

if you have an Armstrong 2400 I'd use that, otherwise the 102 axis provides good slow speed lift for learning.

small wings teach good technique in my opinion and are way more nimble in transitions. If you can find a 4.6m Naish then that would be a good combo to pair with the big 6.0m IMO. As your boys are light <70kg they'd probably easily be able to use the 3.6m Naish in 15knots on a large foil wing. 120litre board is a good place to start as long as it's less than 6'8" long.

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baldy123 said..
snest,

if you have an Armstrong 2400 I'd use that, otherwise the 102 axis provides good slow speed lift for learning.

small wings teach good technique in my opinion and are way more nimble in transitions. If you can find a 4.6m Naish then that would be a good combo to pair with the big 6.0m IMO. As your boys are light

Thanks for the response baldy123. I don't have any foils yet. All the choices are a bit overwhelming. Its a big investment and I am hoping to get it right the first time. If the 2400 is really easier to learn on I don't mind the extra investment.

snest

The most popular foils in West Oz right now are Axis, Armstrong, GoFoil.
These three companies are dedicated foil manufacturers and have the R&D to develop great modular wings.
Full carbon is great, less maintenance and lighter. The axis aluminium mast is super stiff and cheaper.
Ultimately you probably need two sizes of front wings if using in wide wind range and with different body weights.
I always prefer to support my local shops that warrant the products I buy.

AXIS
1000 great for advanced winging and downwind
102 great to learn on, but slow and soon feels too big.
101 awesome all rounder (but in very limited supply currently)
920 smaller version of the 102 and good all round wing
900 the surf and high wind wing, advanced use.

ARMstrong
these foils are a work of art!
A two wing combo of HS1550 and 2400v2 would be awesome with the 60cm fuse.

GOfoil
M200 is great all rounder learner wing, but now they are mainly selling their GL wings here in Oz.
GL180 great for Winging and small surf (prone and sup)
GL140 for bigger waves (prone and sup).

Masts
anywhere in the range of 28.5-30" is good (75-80cm)

hope some of this info helps you in your decision process.

AXIS
1000 great for advanced winging and downwind
102 great to learn on, but slow and soon feels too big.
101 awesome all rounder (but in very limited supply currently)
920 smaller version of the 102 and good all round wing
900 the surf and high wind wing, advanced use.

ARMstrong
these foils are a work of art!
A two wing combo of HS1550 and 2400v2 would be awesome with the 60cm fuse.

GOfoil
M200 is great all rounder learner wing, but now they are mainly selling their GL wings here in Oz.
GL180 great for Winging and small surf (prone and sup)
GL140 for bigger waves (prone and sup).

Hi Baldy
Thanks for this analysis.
Can you compare the Signature / Unifoil to the ones above.
I have the 175 Stealth and the 210 Albatross. They are great foils and I was wondering where they would fit in size and ease wise with the foils you have compared above.
I have just had 2 sessions with a wind wing using the Albatross and would love some comparison.
Cheers
Tannaman

Curious what everyone's recommendation is for an experienced windsurfer that wants to learn how to wing-foil??

Get a board with a mast track and foil with my existing windsurf rigs or get a wing immediately?

I have foiled on friends windsurf foils 3 x's and I have also foiled behind boats & jet skis.

TIA

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jrc22ski said..
Curious what everyone's recommendation is for an experienced windsurfer that wants to learn how to wing-foil??

Get a board with a mast track and foil with my existing windsurf rigs or get a wing immediately?

I have foiled on friends windsurf foils 3 x's and I have also foiled behind boats & jet skis.

TIA

See if you can find a friend with a wing setup and try before you buy.

You might be able to use your windfoil rig, but most of the foils I have seen used are too small (1000-1200cm2). I switch between a 1400cm2 HA foil in high wind and 2000cm2 foil in light wind). I think JB is on a 1250cm2 foil but he has some serious advanced skills.

New boards are about 2k, new foils are 1.5 to 2k, new wings are 1k to 1.5k (and you will end up with two if you take to it). Pretty easy to put down 6k to 7k.

Starting to see to some 2nd hand gear come online as well, so you might be able to get started for as little as 3k.

Also starting to see stores run out of gear due CV-19.....