Howdy
A question for the smart cookies out there -
Just wondering how much volume (if any) is added to a foil board once it is in the water? and also would the board now be more stable or less stable (compared to say a regular quad or thruster fin set-up on the same board)?
thanks :-)

You are adding volume, but you are also adding weight, so the effect on buoyancy is going to be pretty neutral unless the foil is very heavy or very light. Effect on stability at rest due to buoyant or weight related forces will be pretty neutral unless the foil is heavy, in which case it will stabilise the board slightly; or light, in which case the buoyancy of the foil will destabilise the board slightly.

however the lateral area of the mast will resist roll quite a lot, so the board will feel more stable when you are standing on it compared to if you only had a short fins in it

Certainly the front wing size makes a huge difference to stability. I have a 1600 and 1200 size foil and find paddling around on the 1200 way more difficult and unstable. More difference than I would have thought.

Thanks Pacey & tomooh it makes sense I just need to try for myself now, also just wondering if a heavy foil (5-6kg) is better / or does it make a difference compared to a lighter foil (3-4kg) for all round surf foiling etc?:-)

There is all sorts of opinions about whose foils are better. I started with alloy masts fuselage etc and now have Armstrong carbon. Its nice to have a light rig that is well made and looks like it will last. But if you are starting out a cheap second hand set up works fine and can be resold whenever you want to upgrade. I think it is more about the area underwater than the weight that affects stability and its nice to have a board that is not a constant struggle to stand on and paddle.
b

Yes I see tomooh but I recently bought a second hand Ride Engine foli with a massive front wing 84 (5.5kg) and it looks great + I also bought a second hand board Sunova 7.8 sling shot (7.5kg) but together it is just all too much / too heavy for me to carry to the surf and back so I won't be able to take it out to try even.
thanks

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Johndesu said..
Yes I see tomooh but I recently bought a second hand Ride Engine foli with a massive front wing 84 (5.5kg) and it looks great + I also bought a second hand board Sunova 7.8 sling shot (7.5kg) but together it is just all too much / too heavy for me to carry to the surf and back so I won't be able to take it out to try even.
thanks

I agree the Ride Engine/Slingshot foils are heavy, but they are a good foil and a good place to get started. Maybe try carrying the board and foil down separately and putting them together on the beach would be easier.

Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

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tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

Swapping from an axis (Al mast) to a Armstrong (Carbon mast) on the same Sunova SUP 105litre board, I could definitely feel the extra flotation. I weigh 86kg, 6ft. Also, when I fall off or the board shoots back from a wipeout wave, it does take longer to sink / go down.

Overall, I don't think it is a huge difference, but certainly in my unique set of gear, I would say the foil change added about 5 or so litres of volume to the board.

Getting back on a normal SUP though, I am all over the place with latteral stability... that big keel makes a huge difference!

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Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

Hi Tinka
So your foil sup board with attached Foil together weigh under 6kg for both? is that right?:-)
thanks (also a Go Foil & a 6.5 Jimmy Lewis will be arriving soon to my place:-)

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tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomo sup and foil
oh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

8.9kg

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomo sup and foil
oh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

8.9kg

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomo sup and foil
oh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

8.9kg

with leash

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

tinka said..

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomooh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tomo sup and foil
oh said..
Or see if there is someone who is a little bit stronger than you that could manage to carry it down the beach and might buy it off you.

I do not think that is possible so I think that I would need to get / buy the smallest & lightest board that I am comfortable probably between 6-7ft between 100 - 120L (my sups are 6.10 & 7.2 about 90L each) and than afterwards buy the lightest carbon foil that I can ride :-)

HI Johnseu, the sup i surf is 7' 3" and 26 3/4, 92 litres and 5.6 kg feels tippy, but my 5'5" x 26 80 litre foil sup and foil both Armstrong weighing about the same as my sup is much more stable.I reckon even though the foil is neutral bouyant the whole rig is more stable due to the foil wing underneath.

8.9kg

with leash

I see that is pretty light I think, so your small foil sup is pretty small 5.5 & 80L and so what is the actual weight of it?, and also what is the weight of the foil set up that you use ?:-)

Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

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tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide?

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide? Last years naish ultra carbon hover sup foils are pretty good and this years model is way lighter than the previous years and more sizes this year.

Select to expand quote

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide?

Hey Tinka
I am soon to start foiling (this Tuesday & Wednesday) but I am a great sup surfer (about 4 years) and great short board surfer (about 50 years +) as well as been a light weight - 65kg so I am keen to foil sup surf, also I noticed that you have had similar boards in the past -same as me (6.10 Hypernut, CES etc.) so you must be good and a light weight also. I have been reading/looking at the Armstrong foil boards etc., are they/is yours really much better then the rest (the construction and rails, bottom etc.?:-)

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide?

Hey Tinka
I am soon to start foiling (this Tuesday & Wednesday) but I am a great sup surfer (about 4 years) and great short board surfer (about 50 years +) as well as been a light weight - 65kg so I am keen to foil sup surf, also I noticed that you have had similar boards in the past -same as me (6.10 Hypernut, CES etc.) so you must be good and a light weight also. I have been reading/looking at the Armstrong foil boards etc., are they/is yours really much better then the rest (the construction and rails, bottom etc.?:-)

give us a call ive sent my number to your email

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide?

Hey Tinka
I am soon to start foiling (this Tuesday & Wednesday) but I am a great sup surfer (about 4 years) and great short board surfer (about 50 years +) as well as been a light weight - 65kg so I am keen to foil sup surf, also I noticed that you have had similar boards in the past -same as me (6.10 Hypernut, CES etc.) so you must be good and a light weight also. I have been reading/looking at the Armstrong foil boards etc., are they/is yours really much better then the rest (the construction and rails, bottom etc.?:-)

give us a call ive sent my number to your email

Select to expand quote

Johndesu said..

tinka said..

Johndesu said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Ok great that sounds good, probably I will head down the same path as you after some time, I need to start to learn how to ride/fly a foil first (which will be pretty soon:-)

Thought you were pretty handy on the foil? My HS 1250 is arriving this week i will report whats its like,apparently its the highest aspect ratio wing armstrong has made so far.Good for the glide?

Hey Tinka
I am soon to start foiling (this Tuesday & Wednesday) but I am a great sup surfer (about 4 years) and great short board surfer (about 50 years +) as well as been a light weight - 65kg so I am keen to foil sup surf, also I noticed that you have had similar boards in the past -same as me (6.10 Hypernut, CES etc.) so you must be good and a light weight also. I have been reading/looking at the Armstrong foil boards etc., are they/is yours really much better then the rest (the construction and rails, bottom etc.?:-)

Every board i have had has been an improvement of the last . The armstrong board is amazing ,super light and the construction is really good , what i think is important is the length of the board to reduce swing weight and the posistion of the foil boxes .Armstrong have moved the foil boxes slightly more forward on there boards which i reckon really helps . the previous board to the armstrong was pretty good and the construction was bullit proof but it was about 1.5 kilo more heavier , the newer models are somewhat lighter but not as light as the same size Armstrong . which when learning i reckon can be a slight advantage especially us lighter riders . I,m 65 kg and found 95 litres was a good volume ,as now i,m down to 80 litres which is probably as low as i would go on the sup foil . the Armstrong 1550 set up ive got is also the best ,build quality and performance ,The ride on the Armstrong is unreal really stable and linear lift , especialllly the early lift of the 1550 wing . I,ve sent you a email with my contact details ,give us a ring anytime.

How do you find paddling on such a short 5'5 board, and what kind of distance could you comfortably paddle to get to a wave?

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jatem said..
How do you find paddling on such a short 5'5 board, and what kind of distance could you comfortably paddle to get to a wave?

paddle from n bech to break probably 1 klm ,overall sesssion say 3 hours 20 waves 15 klm total distance foiling and paddling,did a seeion not so long back when it was pumping 4 and a half hours 31 waves 41 klm foiling and paddling . keeps your fit

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tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Hi

what is the version 2 5''5 foil wing sup, nothing on the Armstrong site?

cheers

Select to expand quote

kitemantim said..

tinka said..
Just wieghed it, and the board weight is 5.3 kilos and the Armstrong HS 1550 wing 60 Fuse 72 Mast and 232 tail weight is 3.3 kilos giving the whole rigs tottal weight of 8.6 kilos ,my board is version 2 5' 5'' Armstrong 80 litre foil wing sup. I found just dropping the weight of the board gives you so muuch more speed and the swing weight is reduced dramatically . I know that from riding a known brands board the same size but heavier and the ride is totally different.

Hi

what is the version 2 5''5 foil wing sup, nothing on the Armstrong site?

cheers

go to armstrong site select boards wing foil sup 55