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noepoxy said..
ha ha, too funny!

I guess I'm looking at making my dw journey as easy as possible and I've owned all code foils from 720S to 1300S, they are great dinging but for my weight dw the glide is not there. My favourite was the 850 and 980 on the ding, but always needed to be fully powered.

As much as I like riding smaller foils as they're more agile and slippery through the water and just feel better, being a bigger guy, for dw they are not an option, anyway, hopefully the Axis foils will unlock it for me, time will tell

Yep there is no doubt the 1401 is an awesome big guy/lightwind foil.
At 92kg I could DW in 10 knots but that's in Perth and I've been at it for a while.
Good luck it's not easy but the rewards are worth it.
My gf blames her lack of weight for being slow

The issue doesn't seem to be paddling up, if I understand correctly? The move up the foil size scale is solely driven by a search for glide?

If so, gear wise I think you want to be going up in span as you are, but ideally also in aspect ratio rather than area. The Code 1075R is the closest in that direction I know of, but I have no idea if it is enough span to deliver what you are after.

A huge number of people getting into downwinding, myself included, seem to underestimate the magnitude of extremely specific skill that goes into reading and extracting speed from bumps alone, especially in marginal conditions, and glide is inextricably linked to speed. The carryover from other foiling discpilines seems to be very very low for this specific skill set. I would suggest that the solution you are looking for is not entirely to found in new gear.

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tightlines said..

Yep there is no doubt the 1401 is an awesome big guy/lightwind foil.
At 92kg I could DW in 10 knots but that's in Perth and I've been at it for a while.
Good luck it's not easy but the rewards are worth it.
My gf blames her lack of weight for being slow

Is it actually fun for a big guy downwinding in such light wind? Is it that your enjoying surfing the bumps or is it more that your enjoying the challenge, the workout and the fact you can actually do it? I am asking sincerely as this is a question I am asking myself as I look to get into paddling downwinding.

I am yet to do proper paddle up downwinders as you are but I have certainly done a lot of hours downwinding on the wing. I really like to surf and carve the bumps and can go long distances flagging out. I absolutely love it when I am out in solid winds 25+ but when it's light ( 15 and under) I find riding and linking the bumps isn't that much fun. I feel like it would be possible for me to keep pumping and linking bumps long distances but it would be more of a challenge/ cardio thing than a surfing thing. What do you reckon?

what I'm talking about is not about paddling up, but being able to use the energy from the bumps to glide and have enough lift to link to the next bump at my weight of 98kgs. Nothing to do with code or axis but about finding the right setup for average east coast conditions for my weight to achieve this, starting out with flagging out on the ding, as if you can't do it consistently on the ding then there's no chance you can do it with just the paddle.

We've seen the videos of 75-80kgs riders doing this but not riders over 95kgs

I'm sure the 1075 is good if you are 80kgs, but not 98kgs

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Youngbreezy said..

tightlines said..

Yep there is no doubt the 1401 is an awesome big guy/lightwind foil.
At 92kg I could DW in 10 knots but that's in Perth and I've been at it for a while.
Good luck it's not easy but the rewards are worth it.
My gf blames her lack of weight for being slow

Is it actually fun for a big guy downwinding in such light wind? Is it that your enjoying surfing the bumps or is it more that your enjoying the challenge, the workout and the fact you can actually do it? I am asking sincerely as this is a question I am asking myself as I look to get into paddling downwinding.

I am yet to do proper paddle up downwinders as you are but I have certainly done a lot of hours downwinding on the wing. I really like to surf and carve the bumps and can go long distances flagging out. I absolutely love it when I am out in solid winds 25+ but when it's light ( 15 and under) I find riding and linking the bumps isn't that much fun. I feel like it would be possible for me to keep pumping and linking bumps long distances but it would be more of a challenge/ cardio thing than a surfing thing. What do you reckon?

Yep there is not a lot of surfing at those winds strengths, so I suppose the challenge is part of it but down winding just becomes addictive and I am always hoping it will pick up a little bit more.
You always learn something and It is actually kinda fun though, moreso for me than flatwater winging anyway.

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Youngbreezy said..
Is it actually fun for a big guy downwinding in such light wind? Is it that your enjoying surfing the bumps or is it more that your enjoying the challenge, the workout and the fact you can actually do it? I am asking sincerely as this is a question I am asking myself as I look to get into paddling downwinding.

I was watching this video this morning and thought it sort of showed (particularly around the middle of the vid 4:30 on) what I enjoy about down winding in lighter conditions.

It's not all about pumping like crazy.
Mast height, picking the right lines and allowing the foil to glide is essential, even moreso for heavier guys.

Yes he is a fairly lightweight guy, so its not going to be as easy for you guys closer to 100kg and I am somewhere in between, but regardless of weight you learn more each run.



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tightlines said..

Yes he is a fairly lightweight guy, so its not going to be as easy for you guys closer to 100kg and I am somewhere in between, but regardless of weight you learn more each run.

So let's say this guy is around 70Kg and 165cm. I guess the beard adds a couple of kilo. He's riding the largest high performance foil from Axis. There are no equivalent options for my 90Kg and 191cm.

Easy enough math, I would need an Axis ART pro 1821.3 just to be on a level playing field. This sport would seem to be geared exclusively towards the petit

Even a SAB Leviathan 1750 wouldn't put me on the same playing field...

Dave isn't a lightweight. Maybe see what he's riding for reference.

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SupMaui said..
Dave isn't a lightweight. Maybe see what he's riding for reference.

Dave is in Maui with nuking conditions and cannot be used as a reference, unless in Maui

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Thatspec said..

tightlines said..

Yes he is a fairly lightweight guy, so its not going to be as easy for you guys closer to 100kg and I am somewhere in between, but regardless of weight you learn more each run.

So let's say this guy is around 70Kg and 165cm. I guess the beard adds a couple of kilo. He's riding the largest high performance foil from Axis. There are no equivalent options for my 90Kg and 191cm.

Easy enough math, I would need an Axis ART pro 1821.3 just to be on a level playing field. This sport would seem to be geared exclusively towards the petit

Even a SAB Leviathan 1750 wouldn't put me on the same playing field...

I think he is 75kg + beard

art 1401
youtuber = 1611 cm2 / 75kg = 21.48
me = 1611 cm2 / 98 kg = 16.43

for me to compare to him in the same conditions I'd need the same foil with 2105 cm2

2105 / 98 kg = 21.48

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noepoxy said..

Thatspec said..

tightlines said..

Yes he is a fairly lightweight guy, so its not going to be as easy for you guys closer to 100kg and I am somewhere in between, but regardless of weight you learn more each run.

So let's say this guy is around 70Kg and 165cm. I guess the beard adds a couple of kilo. He's riding the largest high performance foil from Axis. There are no equivalent options for my 90Kg and 191cm.

Easy enough math, I would need an Axis ART pro 1821.3 just to be on a level playing field. This sport would seem to be geared exclusively towards the petit

Even a SAB Leviathan 1750 wouldn't put me on the same playing field...

I think he is 75kg + beard

art 1401
youtuber = 1611 cm2 / 75kg = 21.48
me = 1611 cm2 / 98 kg = 16.43

for me to compare to him in the same conditions I'd need the same foil with 2105 cm2

2105 / 98 kg = 21.48

The 1310 Axis (2080sqcm) or AK 2050 is pretty close to what you need and work very well in slow, weak downwinds. I've used both in bay run conditions and getting up and staying up is a breeze - I was 90+kg at the time + add 3mm full wetsuit etc. As my technique and weight has dropped, the biggest I use now, is 1600AK Plasma.

Look closer. Dave is 90kg plus. Yes we have plenty of nuking days here but there are many that aren't. Also, he travels to other destinations that aren't nuking. Just trying to help....

A lot of numbers up there . It is near impossible to compare foil sizes from the numbers of different brands. yes within a brand you could attempt to work it out, but ideally you need to the lift coefficient and the velocities to assume how much lifting the foil will do and at what speed. Foils just don't lift, they generate left as a byproduct of velocity. But in the is also drag which is a real biatch, a bigger foil is not necessarily going to produce a proportional amount of lift as they drag coefficient may differ. A bigger guy is not just going to be heavier themself, but so is their board, potential wetsuit, etc......... which was also pointed out above. Weight is an exponential tax, and in general creates faster speed roll off, harder paddle ups, requires more lift proportionally and stresses spars (mast and fuse) more resulting in flex which inherently equals loss of power.

Aas always said, and said above, demo if you can or try find someone a similar size to you (ideally in ability too) to really see how a foil feels, 5kg makes a huge difference, 10 is another sport.

JB

Not foil size related, but interesting based on rider size and ability. This shows the volumes of certain team riders vs their weights. Quite interesting!

Range seems from about 123% to 145% of body weight in KG. Annie being the lightest rides about 140% of her weight whilst Kai 127%. Casey is a beast at 123% and Slater styling in the big boys at 145% (my kind of numbers ).

Slater is 124% of Kai's weight, and rides a board 142% bigger.

All crazy numbers somewhat irrelevant, but interesting all the same.

I'm 93kg at the moment and looking forwards to my 140L

JB

I'm on a 128L x 8'1 x 20.75 at 98kg or 131%, I wanted one board for sup foil surf, down wind and wing, It works well, I would've preferred same length/width in 135L but I can't be picky as limited options with production boards in Australia.

I chose this size for many reasons, and having had to owning a few boards to determine this for me, as the bigger the board gets the heavier it is. It's the least amount of volume/length that at my level I'm comfortable with and still balance on for a few hours sup foiling in the surf and turning to catch waves etc plus can paddle up easy down wind.

Chose your shape and volume wisely as it's expensive not being able to demo boards first.