I heard there might be a new Armstrong tail in the pipeline. Saw this swallow tail on Insta this morning. It's from Armstrong, in a vid from there America's cup post. Any other info out there?

Coming tomorrow!

Prototypes.

Woah, awesome will probably also eliminate the leg rope catching behind the stab with that raked angle. I find that very annoying when it happens just before trying to take off on a wave on a prone board.

Try a 5' comp leash it's not long enough to get down and caught around the tail.

www.armstrongfoils.com/flying-v-tail-wing/

www.armstrongfoils.com/media/2267/flying-v-info.pdf

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kobo said..
Try a 5' comp leash it's not long enough to get down and caught around the tail.

Thanks, will do!

Trying to understand which performance objective they're trying to achieve with a swept tail wing.. not entire sure and hoping someone could chime in.

From my understanding is the advantage of swept wings in aircraft is that they delay the formation of shock waves on the wing when aircraft near the speed of sound, reducing drag at those transonic speeds.. but this comes at the expense of low speed performance as more sweep requires more AoA to get same lift, which increases drag (for airplanes it means you use more thrust at takeoff and landing).

Now since we are talking about a tail wing here, my "intuition" is that at low speeds this tail won't do much, and give the foil a very loose feel overall. Even more so given that surface area is only 200cm2. But you could achieve the same loose feel with an even smaller (less surface area) non-swept wing, which would have less drag.

The fact that Armstrong's website even uses this phrase to market their tail wing: "Armie has honed this design into a futuristic shape reminiscent of a heavy metal guitar!" doesn't give me much confidence that a lot of wing design theory has gone into the development of it. Could be wrong, but kdmaui's tails are the complete opposite than this flying V armie tail.

Could it also be that we're getting to a point where people are getting so good at foiling and almost don't need a tail wing anymore? And therefore it almost doesn't matter what you stick back there, as long as it's small?

Curious on people's thoughts..

They're based on Skyrama on instagram's tails I believe. He's a big proponent for fish tails as he calls them. He hit 31mph prone surfing on this setup according to his stories.

Some (possible,probably wrong) reasons:
-Longer arm: more sweep moves center of pressure back,so even if the swept foil has less efficiency it creates more tail down moment.
-Weight saving: because of above you can use a shorter fuse.Fuse is heavier that tail, weight saving is minimal but being so far away from the axis of pitch rotation it might just be noticeable in pumping.
-Flex: sweep increases torsion forces so with the same construction it will flex more.Maybe this allows the stab to flex at speed releasing pressure,or increases pump effect.
-Style points: it looks cool and organic, huh?, the stab design can be f@#? with quite freely before things become unmanageable.Guys are chopping and customizing stabs everywhere and reporting great results...guys who chop the front wing are not doing so well :)

mcrt
Haven't heard of any bad results from chopping front wings yet, but I only heard of guys chopping 1250 and 1550 ?

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kobo said..
mcrt
Haven't heard of any bad results from chopping front wings yet, but I only heard of guys chopping 1250 and 1550 ?

I saw a couple cases,it was Instagram and i cant remember the accounts.They basically said foil was ruined.

But i did not know people were chopping those Armie foils...how much and what are the results?.Not that i am gonna dare try it but i am curious.

A few guys on Armstrong foil riders post , cut 1-2 cm off 1250 and rave about how good it is.Stopped the ventilation problem when the tips come out , as well as faster/ looser and better pump apparently.Same on 1550.Said tips solid carbon 2 cm back and no downside to chopping and rounding off.
only downside I see is resale value?

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kobo said..
A few guys on Armstrong foil riders post , cut 1-2 cm off 1250 and rave about how good it is.Stopped the ventilation problem when the tips come out , as well as faster/ looser and better pump apparently.Same on 1550.Said tips solid carbon 2 cm back and no downside to chopping and rounding off.
only downside I see is resale value?

Wow,that is a great result!
Thx a lot for the info.

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kobo said..
A few guys on Armstrong foil riders post , cut 1-2 cm off 1250 and rave about how good it is.Stopped the ventilation problem when the tips come out , as well as faster/ looser and better pump apparently.Same on 1550.Said tips solid carbon 2 cm back and no downside to chopping and rounding off.
only downside I see is resale value?

Can you find a link or pics? cannot find it.
Edit - What is ventilation problem? I can get the 1250 to poke a wing and keep going. The 1550 never. My breaches in turns now are the 232 coming out due to upturned wings, hope the KDmaui tail on the way will help as it turned down.

www.facebook.com/groups/194277485335294/permalink/338903750872666/

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kobo said..
www.facebook.com/groups/194277485335294/permalink/338903750872666/

Thanks.
I read rave reviews about cutting tails down so I tried that. Back to the bigger size now.

It appears that cutting the ends off and making the wing flatter with rounded tips improves it......a bit like the new V2 1550 shape I guess.

I've made my own version of this. It works and works well. Main benefit is have a reduced wingspan whilst keeping the chord length decent. Allows a much smaller tail to work. My version is a lot smaller and keeps the thickness out to the tips.

Man I wouldn't want my normal 232 any smaller. She's twitchy as it is !! Interesting idea will have to try one of those swallow tails for sure.

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greg87foil said..
Trying to understand which performance objective they're trying to achieve with a swept tail wing.. not entire sure and hoping someone could chime in.

From my understanding is the advantage of swept wings in aircraft is that they delay the formation of shock waves on the wing when aircraft near the speed of sound, reducing drag at those transonic speeds.. but this comes at the expense of low speed performance as more sweep requires more AoA to get same lift, which increases drag (for airplanes it means you use more thrust at takeoff and landing).

Now since we are talking about a tail wing here, my "intuition" is that at low speeds this tail won't do much, and give the foil a very loose feel overall. Even more so given that surface area is only 200cm2. But you could achieve the same loose feel with an even smaller (less surface area) non-swept wing, which would have less drag.

The fact that Armstrong's website even uses this phrase to market their tail wing: "Armie has honed this design into a futuristic shape reminiscent of a heavy metal guitar!" doesn't give me much confidence that a lot of wing design theory has gone into the development of it. Could be wrong, but kdmaui's tails are the complete opposite than this flying V armie tail.

Could it also be that we're getting to a point where people are getting so good at foiling and almost don't need a tail wing anymore? And therefore it almost doesn't matter what you stick back there, as long as it's small?

Curious on people's thoughts..

Because Mako's, Swordfish and Swallows do it?
;)

Should be good for stability at speed, moving COE aft.
My Naish 310 is swept a bit.

So Armstrong offer shorter fuses but now introduce a swept back tail to effectively lengthen them again. Guess it's good for sales.

Options?

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Stingersup said..
So Armstrong offer shorter fuses but now introduce a swept back tail to effectively lengthen them again. Guess it's good for sales.

Have to agree with this statement until I get to try one...
Seems to be completly contrary design to what I think is by far the best tail wings out there by Kane.
Those tail wings completly transformed front foils and made them so much better than before in just about every way.

Can possibly see the swept back wing having less drag and more speed but again it makes the fuse act longer than it is.
I thought the Kujira hump back design was marketing till I tried it, so you never know.

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foilgold said..Can possibly see the swept back wing having less drag and more speed but again it makes the fuse act longer than it is.

I think the advantage would be in the turning. A narrower swept back design should be easier to initiate a turn. I like the Kane tails but would love to try this tail.

This is just one of the 4 new tails , reports from team riders they are frothing . I've got the new 232 & V tail
on order .

Looks so sick. V vs KD13

Well I chopped my 1250. Much better turning without breaching. Significantly better. Can push it much harder with confidence.
but from my experience on the same 232 tail the pumping ability - especially at stall speed, was reduced. I stopped linking up waves as well by some margin.

put on the V tail and the pump and link was back so bought one. Speed also noticeably increased on the wave.
so bought one.

talk from the those in the know down margs though are saying the KD Maui tail is even better for the above.

but that is proning only, I'm thinking winging it may be a different story given the increased yaw I'm feeling. We will see.

ps the tail design namely chord profile laterally and long' is suitably strange and detailed (that you can't see in the pics). Had a good look last night. It's no accident, some serious design has gone into it. Reminds me of a raptor plane wing to be honest.

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foilthegreats said..
Looks so sick. V vs KD13

If you can trash a G10 KD the V tail will not last long. Very fragile build. Everyone who has one here has broken the tips off.