Narrowing down to these 2 as a wing option. Any thoughts?

I've had a naish for a while now ,and recently got a 5 wasp . The wasp feels more rigid and bigger and more powerful, but that is comparing a 4 to a five . The naish flexes a bit more then fully powered , which is good ,like a soft leach sail it lays off and has a better top end .the naish handles are also smaller which I like more . The 4 metre does me 90 percent of the time . Only light days I need a 5

Thanks Siny,
Was reading in other posts the wasp was a pain to deflate the centre strut ? and the Naish you can fix a paddle to if you want, guess you could fix a paddle with some Velcro on the Naish if needed.

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kobo said..
Thanks Siny,
Was reading in other posts the wasp was a pain to deflate the centre strut ? and the Naish you can fix a paddle to if you want, guess you could fix a paddle with some Velcro on the Naish if needed.

Agree with the Wasp issues plus the handles.
But we all workout how to minimise the small issues.
My dissapointment is that such a top rating company over looks theses things when testing.
But the answer for me - re deflation is when I have finished a session first thing deflate and place board on the strut. Next get off your gear and talk to your mates, put board in bag and roll up your deflated ego and Wasp.
Good news- no battens or other bits to remove.

Any downsides to the Naish wing ?

I started with a Naish, and then tried the Ozone and couldn't go back.. Ozone so much more powerful and rigid.. once you get the hang of the many handles and use the right ones :) It's much better!

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kobo said..
Any downsides to the Naish wing ?

Both are great wingdings IMO.

I don't know of any downsides of the Naish Wingsurfer .. but I do know of a few upsides..

The Naish can handle more pressure .. 11psi vs only 6psi..
The Naish has the ability to carry your paddle.
The Naish is more durable with lots of any-skuff protection.
The Naish has an isup type inflation point that locks the pump hose in rather than just the push in type.
The Naish has the ability to lock out the centre strut and just deflate the main strut allowing you to roll it up around the centre strut.
And the Naish comes with a pump.

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willow75 said..
I started with a Naish, and then tried the Ozone and couldn't go back.. Ozone so much more powerful and rigid.. once you get the hang of the many handles and use the right ones :) It's much better!

+1
Had the opportunity to try a friend's Naish wing the other day, while he was testing my F-one 4,2.
Sub-15 nds conditions.
Coudn't take-off with the Naish while my mate was flying around me.
We both were very surprised by the gap between those wings in terms of power.
So the Naish is probably more suitable for a 20-30 nds wind range.

Where I am I have the choice between the Wasp, Slingshot and the Cabrinha. At the moment the Wasp has a number of sizes while the other two come in only a 4.2 and 4.0, respectively.

Any comments about the pluses and minuses of these three wings would be much appreciated.

Thumbs-up for ozone 4M, happy with it so far on my longboard on/cross shore rides. Its not that hard to deflate and make sure you start at the middle trailing edge. Its solid and well made and I'm looking forward to wing foiling as well as getting bigger wing on those light wind days.

You can strap a paddle to a WASP in the same way as a Naish. Just need some velcro straps or something similar.

If you are near 90+ kg, a 4m is generally too small.

Heavier riders (90kg +),can use the 4m wings if they, use the monster foil wings or if in stronger winds. The thinner LE and strut wings typically will require a higher psi to ensure a rigid profile.

Very easy to fit a boom to an Ozone. SO much better. Tried handles again yesterday after using boom for a while. WIll definitely reconnect boom. Cant comment on NAish as have never tried one.
Coutresy Clamsmasha. I used an old carbon sup paddle.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Retrofitting-a-boom-to-an-Ozone-Wasp

I have tried the Slingwing, F One, Naish, Duotone and the Wasp.
I brought the Slingwing and then sold it as it was too heavy, hard to turn over and wingtips hit the water. The bag it went in was almost 3 times the size of the Naish and Wasp
The Naish has very little power and is like a thin plastic bag that flaps.
Duotone had good power and you could flatten or bag out depending on the strength of the wind. Did not like the battens and weight with the boom. Also they have had problems with the leading edge bladder getting holes.
F Ones 5m, was light and powerful and was easy to use, but only had 3 handles. Also had attachments for a harness line.
The Wasp is stable, powerful and well made. It takes only a few minutes to roll up the strut to push out the air.
I ended up buying the 4m Wasp and are very happy with it and I am going to buy a 6m for light winds.
My list of best to worst Wasp, F One, Duotone all good, don't buy Naish and Slingwing.
Look at which ones are being sold in the Buy and sell section.

I have the Slingwing and it is the only one I have tried. I like it and find it very stable. I am 80 kg. and get up on the large foil around 14 or 15 knots but once up can carry on in much less wind. I have used it up close to 30 knots but it is less fun above 25 knots. I have no problems with the wing tips hitting the the water or flipping it over. The bag is large. I plan to keep it and get something larger for lighter wind. It does seem to be well built. I have read it is heavy but it seems light to me. It may be heavy in comparison to the others.

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Campbell said..
I have tried the Slingwing, F One, Naish, Duotone and the Wasp.
I brought the Slingwing and then sold it as it was too heavy, hard to turn over and wingtips hit the water. The bag it went in was almost 3 times the size of the Naish and Wasp
The Naish has very little power and is like a thin plastic bag that flaps.
Duotone had good power and you could flatten or bag out depending on the strength of the wind. Did not like the battens and weight with the boom. Also they have had problems with the leading edge bladder getting holes.
F Ones 5m, was light and powerful and was easy to use, but only had 3 handles. Also had attachments for a harness line.
The Wasp is stable, powerful and well made. It takes only a few minutes to roll up the strut to push out the air.
I ended up buying the 4m Wasp and are very happy with it and I am going to buy a 6m for light winds.
My list of best to worst Wasp, F One, Duotone all good, don't buy Naish and Slingwing.
Look at which ones are being sold in the Buy and sell section.

Super helpful input there Campbell. I've recently purchased the 5m duotone as first wing (foil surf/kitesurf competent). The boom seemed to be the best (forum research only) for getting the hang of it/just winging around etc. The goal ultimately is to wing out, foil waves in. The clips look epic of guys (and girls) doing that. Based on what you've said, I think I would change, once having it down, to a wasp or F1 as I can picture the boomless/lighter wing being better/less flappy for riding waves. So thanks for contributing to 'the plan'

The Wasp works really well

What size would you go for to start with 4 m or 5. Winds here are usually 15-20 kn range

For 15-20kts I would choose the 5m wasp. Had my first go on the 5m wasp in this wind range combined with the Starboard 2000 foil last week. It is possible the 4m wasp could have worked in the upper wind range, however really appreciated the 5m low end power in the lulls where the 4m would have struggled. My ideal wind range for the 4m Wing and the same foil size is 20-30kts. It is very possible that if I was using a much more powerful lifting foil, that my low and high end ideal wind ranges would drop with both the 5m and 4m.

Thanks IWB, I'm 82kgs and I'm using a 1550 Armstrong wing in the 12-20kn range mostly so I recon on the 5 wasp would be the go by the sound of it.

I (JB) tend to challenge the claims of lack of power in the Naish Wing-Surfer. I am 88-90kg at the moment, and 6'2". There is not many crew that get going earlier than me. I use a 1240 HA foil on my Hover 110 CU.

Foiling is such an interesting game. I find the same issues come up with Windsurf Foiling also. I find if you can be efficient, smaller is better. This does take time, but the benefits later on are worth the extra work. I use the same size wing and foil from 8kn - 40kn. Same board, all rigged the same. This is pretty extraordinary!!

Here is a quick video from Saturday when the NE'er didn't properly come in. BOM gave the obs at 7-13kn. I was on my Hover 110 CU with hte 1240 HA Jet and the 4m Wing-Surfer.



You can most definitely go a bigger wing and a larger foil, and it might pop you up a little earlier with less effort. But once you're up, the excess wing and drag of a big foil will restrict manouvderability and speed.

I am excited to get on a bigger wing soon, but I am more excited to get on a smaller one. Lighter, faster and more manoeuvrable.

Enjoy the journey, it's soo much fun.

Ride safe,

JB

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Windgenuity said..
I use the same size wing and foil from 8kn - 40kn. Same board, all rigged the same. This is pretty extraordinary!!

To be honest, at the start of windsurfing, we used the same gear from 0kn to 40kn... (and without harnesses)
When there is only one type of gear available, you just deal with it and adapt :-)

In my opinion and as a beginner, you need more than 4M wing like 5M or 6M and a bigger board that you can easily stand up on comfortably.

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Windgenuity said..
I (JB) tend to challenge the claims of lack of power in the Naish Wing-Surfer. I am 88-90kg at the moment, and 6'2". There is not many crew that get going earlier than me. I use a 1240 HA foil on my Hover 110 CU.

Foiling is such an interesting game. I find the same issues come up with Windsurf Foiling also. I find if you can be efficient, smaller is better. This does take time, but the benefits later on are worth the extra work. I use the same size wing and foil from 8kn - 40kn. Same board, all rigged the same. This is pretty extraordinary!!

Here is a quick video from Saturday when the NE'er didn't properly come in. BOM gave the obs at 7-13kn. I was on my Hover 110 CU with hte 1240 HA Jet and the 4m Wing-Surfer.

You can most definitely go a bigger wing and a larger foil, and it might pop you up a little earlier with less effort. But once you're up, the excess wing and drag of a big foil will restrict manouvderability and speed.

I am excited to get on a bigger wing soon, but I am more excited to get on a smaller one. Lighter, faster and more manoeuvrable.

Enjoy the journey, it's soo much fun.

Ride safe,

JB

You have higher order skill on the foil and wingding. I was super impressed with how easily you were winging.

The average individual is not going to be able to get up on a 4m and 1240cm2 foil wing in those conditions. If you were beginner, you would wonder if the effort was worth it.

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bigtone667 said..

Windgenuity said..
I (JB) tend to challenge the claims of lack of power in the Naish Wing-Surfer. I am 88-90kg at the moment, and 6'2". There is not many crew that get going earlier than me. I use a 1240 HA foil on my Hover 110 CU.

Foiling is such an interesting game. I find the same issues come up with Windsurf Foiling also. I find if you can be efficient, smaller is better. This does take time, but the benefits later on are worth the extra work. I use the same size wing and foil from 8kn - 40kn. Same board, all rigged the same. This is pretty extraordinary!!

Here is a quick video from Saturday when the NE'er didn't properly come in. BOM gave the obs at 7-13kn. I was on my Hover 110 CU with hte 1240 HA Jet and the 4m Wing-Surfer.

You can most definitely go a bigger wing and a larger foil, and it might pop you up a little earlier with less effort. But once you're up, the excess wing and drag of a big foil will restrict manouvderability and speed.

I am excited to get on a bigger wing soon, but I am more excited to get on a smaller one. Lighter, faster and more manoeuvrable.

Enjoy the journey, it's soo much fun.

Ride safe,

JB

You have higher order skill on the foil and wingding. I was super impressed with how easily you were winging.

The average individual is not going to be able to get up on a 4m and 1240cm2 foil wing in those conditions. If you were beginner, you would wonder if the effort was worth it.

Agreed Bigtone, but at some time we are all beginners. The trick is persistence for the greater end result. We live in such an instant gratification era that we often end up getting to stage 2 sooner by trying to over gear and remove skill based technique but limit our progression by not learning skills required to go to stage 4 .

Could be talking shnyte, but I believe those that learn the hard way and perfect technique and learn skills become better riders.

All this said, I am excited about larger wings. Not to get going in 10kn easier, but to explore getting going in even less wind (<8kn).

Big fella's, yes you have the exponential tax of weight. Rocker line, length and efficiency is your friend. But yes also a bigger wing will help you to a degree. But I am more calling the need for 20-30kn claim on a 4m. A 4m is a great size, and can definitely be used in far less even by large humans.

Just my 2 cents. (just noticed I am responding on the Naish profile - Should have used JB )

Ride safe.

JB

I'm new to foiling of any kind, recently purchased 6'11" 142ltr Fanatic SUP and 2500 surf foil along with Wasp 6m.
Im 115 kegs on a good day, have background in Surfing/SUP/kite surfing/windsurfing
I did struggle for a good 5 or 6 sessions and thought the board just too small. But then finally cracked it and got up and going in 15-18knts.
I love the wasp it's easy to handle well made and light. Yes the inflation or more deflation is a pain but not worth worrying about. still need many more sessions to really get confident and I'm still struggling to standup and paddle with the board when just using as a SUP but more practice and hopefully I'll get there.
this sport has given me a new vibe and enthusiasm and I'm just loving it even on the frustrating days when it takes ages to work but once everything clicks it takes hours to get the smile off my face

I had the opportunity to run the Naish 6m Wing in 10 to 15 knots yesterday for about an hour (10km worth). Here are my thoughts/opinions:

Great Naish build quality as always.

Picking up the wing I felt the Naish wing is slightly heavier than the WASP.

Recommended PSI rating is 6-8 PSI. If you carry a food baby like me make it 8 PSI or the wing will flex making it hard to get up on the foil in very light conditions. Sort of shame they reduced the PSI rating from the MK1.

I did not drag the Naish wing tips in the water when pumping as much as I do the WASP. So I suspect the width is smaller and/or the flex stopped me touching the water as much. If I get a chance I will overlay them.

Once up, it's a really nice wing to fly. Sits and holds the wind really really well.

The handholds crap all over the WASP ones. Nice, stiff and plenty of them. (will be interesting to see how external webbing material on the handles survives over time).

I was able to have a little race with Warwick (who was flying my 6m WASP) and I absolutely caned him in straight line speed. The 6m Naish is faster than the 6m WASP in light winds (which makes sense given the flatness of the WASP wing).

Gybing in light winds was okay. The Naish wing is a little heavier than the WASP, so it not as easy to swing round.

Tacking in light winds was fine as the wing had plenty of lift heading upwind.

If the wind was super light, I was able to pump the wing and the foil to stay up on the plane, but for my weight, the WASP did a better job.

After a few discussions, the conclusion that was reached was: Naish 6m is better for a lighter rider (90kg and below) and the WASP was better for a heavier rider (91kg and above) (IN MY OPINION).

I personally still prefer the WASP.

Bigtone667:

Did you find the windows in the Naish to be of benefit (Wasp has no windows)?

As far as speed between the two is concerned -- did you switch wings and race again? If not, then the differences may be attributable to differences in technique (and perhaps leverage)? Were you on the same size foil wings? In other words, was there a relatively level playing field when comparing the two wings for speed?

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dejavu said..
Bigtone667:

Did you find the windows in the Naish to be of benefit (Wasp has no windows)?

As far as speed between the two is concerned -- did you switch wings and race again? If not, then the differences may be attributable to differences in technique (and perhaps leverage)? Were you on the same size foil wings? In other words, was there a relatively level playing field when comparing the two wings for speed?

The windows are awesome........ massive and clear.

I thought the playing field was reasonably even. Both of us on 2000cm2 wings and in a straight line at the same angle.

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dejavu said..
Bigtone667:

Did you find the windows in the Naish to be of benefit (Wasp has no windows)?

As far as speed between the two is concerned -- did you switch wings and race again? If not, then the differences may be attributable to differences in technique (and perhaps leverage)? Were you on the same size foil wings? In other words, was there a relatively level playing field when comparing the two wings for speed?

Truth now.
BT came up fast behind me causing me to have an adrelin pump .
I caught up and we were neck and neck until excitement over took me and a breach caused a crash and BT maintained his ego.
For me both wings are equal but in different ways .
BT is about 50 and I am 73 so who would you believe?
I am a hopeless pumper but getting better.
I am chasing his skill and experience .

Did you notice any difference in gust handling between the WASP and Naish?

I notice some wings smooth out the wind, while some feel punchy in gusts. Some wings twitch and fight the operator. Some wings act more calm.

How do these compare?