Hi all, I'm considering buying a top hat 25 mk3 that I have just inspected today. Literally the only thing about this boat that makes me feel uncomfortable is the mast step/girder. There is rust on it and looks like some parts have rusted away, and also there is bubbling up under the paint on the girder. If I go ahead and buy it I was already planning on having the standing rigging replaced as it's old.

I'm just not sure how I would go about having that mast step replaced if they took the mast down and declared it can't be fixed. That would take weeks? Would cost xxx??

The boat itself apart from this flaw, seems good, and is cheap - 5k.
I appreciate any help, I had a long time ago a hood 20 and received excellent help on these forums. Hopefully i can upgrade to a top hat..

If you are going to unstep the mast and replace rigging, that mast girder/step could be removed and repaired.

First step sandblasting then repair by cutting out the rusted sections, fitting plates or angles and welding. this followed by galvanising and powder coating or 2 pack epoxy coating.

You could even get the whole thing refabricated in aluminium bearing in mind that weight for weight aluminium is way stronger than steel.

Message nswsailor. He has a Top Hat.

Thankyou! I suppose thats not so bad if it can be repaired, or refabricated; I'm more wondering how much that would cost - I only know about woodworking and fibreglassing, nothing to do with metalworking. So it would be a case of paying someone else to do it, which I don't mind up to a certain point. If its going to cost thousands and take weeks and weeks I don't really want to get involved with that.

Sandblast, about $50.
Weld up bad bits etc $100-$300.
Hot dip gal $80-$150.
Remove and instal diy. Free.
You probably will have to take it to a different company for each stage.
Depending on where you take it should be less than a 3 week turnaround.

I've seen a lot worse, still plenty strong enough. You could just chip away the loose rust, put some rust converter on it and paint.
I cant remember exactly but the last time I heard a price to get one made in aluminium was between $600 and $1000.
Any competent metal fabrication shop would be able to make a new one, or repair existing.

Ok $1k is not too bad at all I was expecting about that. Thanks guys that doesn't seem too difficult then. I might just go ahead and buy this boat. As far as I can tell its the only flaw, overall its very neat.

Not quite sure what's going on at the top. Looks like someone has tried welding to the alloy mast.

It looks to be in pretty good condition and would be an easy and cheap repair. Remove the mast and the steel base, chip off the paint and flaky rust. Treat with Metal Gleam or any other phosphoric acid rust remover. Wash and dry then a couple of coats of Killrust or similar paint.

Or. Get a friendly pensioner to build a a copy out of scrap aluminium plate or stainless steel. Even buying SS new is not that expensive now but the labour really is. Where do you live?

Go to the Top Hat users forum.

I also have a Top Hat, and have a similar problem with the mast step. Having owned it now for 14 years, I've only had to re-do the rust conversion twice.

The step on this boat isn't standard. It looks like it's been fitted with a device to swing the mast down forward. This thread on Tophatyachts.com has a couple of versions in photos. tophatyachts.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2088&p=13227&hilit=mast+step#p13227

If you do buy the boat, and remove the step for repairs, make sure you also check the holes into the coach roof to see that they haven't leaked and allowed water to wick into the fibreglass.

There is also a Top Hat facebook group which is frequented by other long term owners that have a wealth of knowledge far greater than mine. www.facebook.com/groups/42917318330/about

The more costly issue to resolve may be the bubbling at the base of the mast. There are indications of dissimilar metal corrosion. There is potential for the mast base to be corroded through inside the mast step.

As others have said the "knowledge" is over on the facebook site and the 'tophatyachts' web page.

I have posted answers on the FB page!

Absolutely the bubbling/welds around the base of the mast is of a far greater concern, the aluminium mast should be isolated from the mast base, if that wasn't done, and the bubbling is the result, it looks like pretty serious corrosion.
Hopefully it's just a poor attempt of sealing between mast and base, but needs further investigation.

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BlueMoon said..
Absolutely the bubbling/welds around the base of the mast is of a far greater concern, the aluminium mast should be isolated from the mast base, if that wasn't done, and the bubbling is the result, it looks like pretty serious corrosion.
Hopefully it's just a poor attempt of sealing between mast and base, but needs further investigation.

It does not look like corrosion. Looks more like something was added to seal the gap between the mast and the steel to keep the moisture out, just not a very neat job and then painted over it. Better off having decent drain holes in the steel base.

Mage,
Please get a screwdriver and break open the blisters at the base of the mast and let us know the result

"Nearer my god to thee' plays in the background...

On the matter of rigging...a Nth Sydney insurer wanted my rigging redone owing to age (tophat25) Rigger said would pass but....!!..Insurer said rigging would be around $2000.00; began at $4500.00. Between him and Drummoyne slipping organisation the boat was off the mooring 5 months. A month should have 'killed' it. The boat waas picked up by the rigger at same time the mooring was being serviced...good fortune struck...why?...becasue the mooring (I later found found had not been serviced in at least 10 years) broke away when trying to haul it out, Ok si mark the spot and organise to find the concrete?...no. Drop a new one. Ok as you say. how much (ouch) but go ahead using the second-hand block.

Slipping organisation at Drummoyne over charged me by about 50% and refused to answer questions on the work done such as 'was the engine overheating?...was the cooling system functioning, previous owner said it wasn'...did you fix the toilet cock?...is the solar panel charging ...I bought a best quality new battery as the one on board had died." I had been quoted $1500 for the slipping and ani-foul including paint. They didn't discount for the paint. The other chareges were well over the top, I paid both on invoice as I do all things no delay...still no answers. Great!! Rigger promised to help sort it out with at organisation. Didn't.

When sailboat returned to mooring it was gone...I'd just had a new one at some $1500.00 using s/h concrete.. I think the psycho from whom I bought the vessel is a reasonable suspect as having cut the rope...and removed the buoy I felt a possibility for the vanished mooring was not 'accidental' My buoy was not handed-in anywhere , so I'd say 'souvenired ' by the 'disturbed' person from whom I bought the boat.

The rigger towed the sailboat back and put it on someone else's mooring 100 metres away...instead of towing it back to his worshop.

Maritime called me to get my sailboat off the mooring and then a few days later told me the (very decent) owner of the mooring had his boat off it for a month so I had a month to get mine sorted..

The bloke who had done the replacement mooring refused to try to hook up the new chain. Just wanted to drop another mooring (so said). It's not deep water and with chain and rope not far into DJ's locker would be a simple find....I thought so anyway.

Kind 'other owner' boat was back in 3 weeks...a day before the re-mooring which 'octopus' agreed to try to hook up the old chain with a grapple mine was towed to Woodford Bay on Maritime orders, presumably by the rigger.
A few days later it was returned and to the correct mooring this time. Octopus had acted smartly...I have learned to have faith in Deniz. By now the mooring had cost me over $2000.00.

I received 57 abusive messages from him the owner in one afternoon, at that time accusing me of many unpleasant personal traits including stealing his fishing tackle left on board...which I could not get-to and which the rigger had said he would remove and keep for the previous owner ("$10 worth" of tackle but we kept it for him") I finally successfully organised the handover at the rigger's yard., five months down the track ...after being screwed around by that owner who didn't turn up on two occasions or take it first day as he'd promised. Curiously that was around the time the mooring vanished.

Rigger told me the previous owner 'came here looking for a fight". Previous owner's gratuitous and vilely abusive messages to me indicated violence his self-control and anger management problems. He;d also not told me the mooring registration and other had not been paid , I did that immediately during purchase negotiations. He failed to send interior photos...ok I was a mug for buying without survey or personal inspection, His barly concealed violence may also have intruded on my relationship with the rigger as well as causing the 'thereafter'' issues.. The rigger has refused to answer any questions as refuses contact . No explanation?..or 'no explanation necessary'...that really hurt me.

It was not I who created the problems...I just wanted him to finish his last piece of agreed work and to sail with me as promised (a veteran S-H sailor). Instead of that I am being punished it seems for events I could not reasonably foresee.

Post the major works all marine service people bar one have not kept their word' The rigger...though not quite finished and with whom I seemed to have a good relationship, ...had seemingly been good ..cleared out the bats from the sail cover and washed my apparently filthy sails several times and hung out in sunshine...good bloke...as well as doing the rigging. We seemed to be getting along fine.

On maintenance as this forum is about ...in a way I have addressed some 'joys'. The interior has mould now. Four people have agreed to do the job, not one has even had a look. They have stuffed me about week after week...none less than a month. Why not say at the outset..."I can't do it mate..."

I worked as a contractor on a Marina decades ago (Francis' at Newport) and am not just a lame duck. I have however been physically lame for 5 years in excruciating pain...to answer why don't you do it yourself?? I am presntly in so far 4 weeks of remission.

Can anyone advise me of a competent and reliable person or put themselves forward (with PPE) to do the mould work. on this vessel? If it is simpler and better to pull out all the carpeting has anyone experience with the costs of that on a '25' .I have photos of what is affected. My regards...'the fun of owning a boat' Ahhhhhh now I get it!!..
My regards

Hi Re the mast issue...I was thinking "if that is 'welding' the perpetrator deserves keel-hauling"

If it IS 'welding' that makes the whole area suspect. If it is welding it is beyond just 'amateurish' Rightly you are in trepidation of 'new mast'. It could be bad rust.

Rather than replace it, the mast could be hauled out cut and extended if continuing through the cabin. Has to be very professionally prepared and welded, maybe X-Rayed ...If however finishing at this plate with little to no taper it could be removed, have tested, cut and shortened to good metal., rigging then refitted or replaced. The plate could also be replaced if the taper too great...I wouldn't sleeve it...build a new one

The owner has paid no competent attention to what has been going on with the mast area perhaps went' ga-ga 'when hearing what a new mast would be charged-at.

Bodgied-up fixes will leave the mast vulnerable to snapping under strong winds... btw 'kill rust' is not permanent cure nor adds strength. Even a mm of rust penetration or corrosion weakens the material. That said over time masts suffer environmental and metallurgical deterioration..thus my 'testing' comment. It could be that the mast is better replaced but is it cheaper to replace the boat? My regards

Extending the mast to the keel will split the main bulkhead in two.

I would not recommend that solution.

Remember when reproducing the Mast Bridge its not square and all the angles must be reproduced.
If you look on the web site a drawing for Mark 2 or 3 Mast Bridge has just been posted, Search in Gallery.

Looks like someone has made a mast base that is hinged to allow the mast to lean forward. ????
It fits into the original girder.
if it's made out of steel as it looks to be I think you will find severe corrosion in the end of the mast from electrolysis.
not to hard a fix if your wanting to buy the yacht

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wongaga said..
Go to the Top Hat users forum.

Yes 450 odd members on Facebook Tophat site so somebody there must have had the same problem

If it was me I would remake the step in plywood,epoxy and uni glass. The great thing is that it can secured to the deck by gluing and tabbing so there will be no leaks. I am a huge believer in making composite parts rather than paying people to make metal stuff. Today I will be buying a radar and I will make a composite mast mount for some labour and about $100 in materials. Get into the new world and ditch the metal

First of all I am withdrawing my comments above "Re Top Hat mast Bridge"

Mage, your yacht is a 20' Hood and has no relationship to a Top Hat.
So the info on both Top Hat Facebook and the Web Site will be of no use to you!

I suggest you will have to look elsewhere for the information you want.

So if this was my job, I would get some 12mm plywood - 5 litres of epoxy (always gotta have some epoxy) some double bias cloth and some microfibres, plus a little 10 oz cloth.

First I would make a mould of the mast in light glass - just one layer. Cover in plastic then wrap. Then cut at mast track end - and expand sloghtly so that it moves well. This can then be added to with more glass to make a nice socket - I do this all the time - easy if you only do one layer and then expand it.

Then copy the pieces of steel in 12 mm ply. Glue together with epoxy and microfibres. Then go over with about 4 layers of 400gm double bias inside the channel and only one of the outside. Glass the socket in afterwards.

I reckon this would be heaps and then you can glass and tab it onto the deck.

Or build one in a good timber like kauri, which can be bought from building recyclers in Sydney in the form of old floorboards of about 12-18mm thickness. It's more upkeep but it can look lovely; I replaced the laminated ply beam in my 28'er with a kauri one which also formed a nice place to put halyard tails. There's glass tape to tab it to the deck.