G'day all.

My first post here as a wannabe sailor. I thought I may pick some brains as getting down to the local yacht club isn't the easiest thing to do right now (Highlands of PNG is as far from an ocean as I can imagine right now).

I guess a bit of background firstly... 40 odd and looking for a new challenge in life. Have had exposure to motor craft being around the military for 20+ years but only brief exposure to sailing vessels (hobicat and smaller whilst on holidays). I would like to transition to a livaboard vessel that is of size enough to take the missus and 3 kids away on trips - blue water eventually. Between these adventures I would more than likely be needing to do a lot of solo sailing.

Lets call it a 5 year plan.

I have spent many months looking at boats online, watching YouTube Videos, checking out blogs. Have started the RYA Shorebased Skippers Course via correspondence. Maxed out the town library's book borrowing once and am about to do it again. Picked up on ebay a bulk sale on cruising helmsman and the like and got in contact with the local sailing instructor to start lessons next month on their 20 ft yacht.

Ive come to the conclusion that Im after a 38 - 44 ft Steel or GRP centre cockpit to livaboard whilst learning to sail. Obviously I have a whole heap of "would likes" but in the end they wont mean a pinch of proverbial unless I can handle it (eventually) solo.

During my research I have seen a few must haves for solo sailing but would like to pick your collective brains if ok.

Most of what I've read point out many aspects that suit a single hander... ie tiller over a wheel, single backstay over double, strong solid mast over a mast furling main, wind vane steering system, self tailing winches, furling headsails, Electric anchor winch, lazy jacks...and so on.

I've just found a book by Andrew Evans online - Thoughts, Tips, Techniques and Tactics on Single Handed Sailing... Its very informative but as far as I can tell (just found it as I'm typing) its aimed at dedicated solo sailing so more talking about 25-30 footers.

Can you guys as a sailing collective pinpoint bottom line requirements that I should look for in a vessel closer to 40 foot? In particular what are the war stoppers that a few extra dollars cant over come ie addons vs overhauls. For example someone mentioned that its fair enough to bring the rigging back to the cockpit but if you have to leave the helm to run to the front of the cockpit then its a pain in the arse to a single hander... if winches aren't accessible at the helm is it a big issue??? Would you need to bring them to the rear of the cockpit? I imagine that's a big job. How many sheets/winches need to be accessible from the helm - leave the mainsail halyard on the mast - just run the genoa and jib back?

Sorry if this is at all sounding a bit novice but I'm hoping there's wisdom in knowing what I don't know. Id love to start to narrow down what I'm looking for in a boat.

Thanks... I hope...



Shamus

Shamus, Welcome to the forums and welcome to the wonderful world of singlehanding. I'm the guy who wrote the book you mentioned above.

I'll agree with Cisco above that 38'-42' is getting to be a lot of boat when it comes to singlehanding. This is the reason why I concentrated on boats under 40' in my book. At that level you are dealing with a lot of forces that go beyond normal sailing. It becomes more like "managing" an aircraft carrier than "sailing" a boat. Especially as a newcomer to the sport, you will want something that is a little bit more nimble with regard to sailing handling. If you start to think of the size of a genoa or spinnaker on a 40' boat, you'll get the idea. Just think of the effort required to raise a mainsail on such a boat. Is this something you'll want to do when you leave the dock every day? And what will you do when you drop the spinnaker or the genoa over the side? Believe me that it WILL happen. In the published version of my book I did lengthy interviews with skippers of a Mini 6.50, Figaro II, Class 40 and IMOCA 60. After these discussions I have decided that the Figaro II, at 33' long, is pretty well the ideal size of boat for singlehanding. Small enough to be nimble and fun, but big enough for the type of ocean sailing that you are thinking of. (And by the way, while you dream of taking your little ones for long ocean voyages, in a few years they will reach puberty and want to have absolutely nothing to do with Dear Old Dad. )

In answer to your specific questions: Yes, you absolutely do want to have the sheet winches accessible from the helm position, even if that means stretching forward while you hold the tiller between you knees. As you know from my book, I have the jib sheet and the spinnaker sheet led across the cockpit to the windward side of the boat where I can give them the second-to-second adjustments necessary to make sailing efficient. But this also makes it more fun. Working the sheets is not so much fun if you need to get up off your bum for every tiny adjustment. You just won't do it. This is one of the key recommendations that I can make after 1,000 days of singlehanding. Moving winches is not as much work as you might think.

Have fun out there. My book has pretty well all of the recommendations that I can make with regard to design and setting up of a boat for singlehanding. Take a close look and let me know if you have any specific questions.

Gents,

Thanks so much for your reply so far and I ack all of what you say... however...
One thing that I am/must be very aware of is that especially in the initial stages of this plan I have a feeling I will be static rather than getting out on the water often. This idea although brewing for many a year (since the old man was building a Mauritius 43 in the 80s) has gained impetuous as a need for an abode for myself due to some of those 'life changes' that we go through.

I am in particularly aware that by putting the handling of a vessel above the features/space, may remove a massive amount of what I need, especially in the initial stages of the plan- think of going from 1/4 acre with shed space to livaboard. One reason for gravitating to a centre cockpit is I envisage the need for a workshop on-board to satisfy my need to tinker and I see that walkthrough area towards the rear cabin.

Please don't be thinking "oh no here's another landlubber not willing to listen to advice and think he can do it all". I guess my thoughts are that I'm not going out there to single hand, more so - I will "need" to single handed and when doing so I need to make sure that the vessel/I am capable.

I'm about to get on a bird to head back to Oz and have copied your book over to my phone Andrew and am looking forward to getting into it during the flight. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post.

I'm I too fool to think that the aircraft carrier can be learnt upon? Below are links to a couple of examples of what I was "dreaming?" about... the second noting the wheel setup... it that peculiar??

Cheers gents...

Shamus

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/dudley-dix-38-pilot-house-running-free/182551
www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-12357107/1996-STEEL-CENTRE-COCKPIT?cr=1&psq=%28%28%28%28%28BoatType%3DSail%26%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDemo%20and%20near%20new%20boats%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20new%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20used%20boats%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20used%20boats%5D%29%29%26Price%3Drange%5B40000..90000%5D%29%26LengthInFeet%3Drange%5B40..44%5D%29%26BoatAll%3Dkeyword%5Bsteel%5D%29%26Service%3DBoatsales%29&pso=0&pss=Premium

Friend of mine....from landlubber to sailor in one week...
he crew on delivery sailboat from Aus to NZ

If I was 20 years younger, here's what I would queue up for www.morganscloud.com/2014/08/31/twenty-adventure-40-core-principles/
regards,
allan

My thoughts exactly Rumbles... that's how the old man got onto the Roberts... after catching the bug from the boaties up in Gove he went crewing out of Freo. Still stories of night sailing down to Cape Nat and the like pop up occasionally.
I'm just hoping there may be some opportunities out of Lonny in the future.
Addit.
****e! Your out of Lonny... you are still???? Same here. Maybe I can pick ya brain over a beer at the TYC!?!!

Hi Semus, welcome to the forum.
As a newbie to sailing myself, I have to tell you boats can be TOO BIG. I have a 28 footer and when
a decent blow gets in the sails, by crikey, even my boat can be a handful. Mind you I'm a lot older
than 40.
However, you have probably been looking around the forum for a while and know the wealth of
knowledge here. These blokes really know what they are talking about, but, If you have faith in
yourself and you've really got to do what you want to do, then go for it. Just listen to good advice
though.
Personally, with family in thought and a safe boat paramount.....I'd go for a S&S 34.

Be careful not to sacrifice comfort for small single handed sailing ability. 40ft boats can single hand well and may even do it better than a smaller 30-35footer. Moving around the deck and in the cockpit with ease without stubbing your toes, bending, squeezing and tripping through the rigging helps massively with the single handed sailing ability and comfort especially as you get older and less supple. A larger deck gives a better platform for lashing down a dingy, life raft or extra fuel cans and still allow access around them to the bow. Much can be said for a 12m boat compared to a smaller 10m.

I can recall South Ace and what he eventually chose He had cruising in his end choise
And seems to be working out well for him

Was looking at a VDS for sail on Syd H. It mentioned having a "CWS". Central winching system. Made it sound great for solo... or were they just wank words to sucker me in?

HG02 said...
I can recall South Ace and what he eventually chose He had cruising in his end choise
And seems to be working out well for him

What was the go there HG? Was he bucking the trend?

SemusMcgilicoty said..

HG02 said...
I can recall South Ace and what he eventually chose He had cruising in his end choise
And seems to be working out well for him

What was the go there HG? Was he bucking the trend?

No No he just sat on his perch till the right boat came a long

Jolene said..
Be careful not to sacrifice comfort for small single handed sailing ability. 40ft boats can single hand well and may even do it better than a smaller 30-35footer. Moving around the deck and in the cockpit with ease without stubbing your toes, bending, squeezing and tripping through the rigging helps massively with the single handed sailing ability and comfort especially as you get older and less supple. A larger deck gives a better platform for lashing down a dingy, life raft or extra fuel cans and still allow access around them to the bow. Much can be said for a 12m boat compared to a smaller 10m.

That's what I am worried about Jo. If I'm going to have the kids visiting/living with me when I'm moored down at the marina I'm going to need to give them their own space. At the mo they are between 5 and 10 yo. The last thing I need is for one of them to be sleeping in a common area. Fair enough the two girls sharing a vberth at this stage. Then there's the issue of me killing time during long drawn out Tassie winter weather... doing without a workshop ... I may as well go live in a caravan (which is what my mother is advocating...lol).

I have heard what your saying before... even the "I sail my 50ft SH with no issues". Don't get me wrong...I'm not advocating a novice can do it but it is obviously done.

I used to sail a 10m yacht which was not a great problem single handed....but with my son from the years 6 to about 12. I would not sail without someone else on board – even if they were not experienced sailors

I could handle the risk of being single handed and me having a mishap, going overboard etc.(read die) But I could not handle my young son being left alone on board. While even if he could start the engine,as he had been shown. Then get the sails down – imagine what state he would be in? Searching a for lost cause...and trying to get the boat back...in a remote location. This was in northen PNG.


By the way there is a Yacht Club in the PNG Highlands...The Goroka Yacht Club, it much be 100's Km from the water...and the only boat is a dinghy set in concrete out the back!



the back.

Cheers for the input guys. I'm getting the feeling that my best chance is a series of compromises based upon most likely vs most dangerous...
Having the need for a livaboard is 100% required, for me this means having space to keep the mind and body busy. Living in Tassie means a heater of some type would also be nice. Needing the kids to be comfortable (which varies in requirements from having an xbox set up or a couple of fold up bikes stashed away). All these needs/wants push me towards the idea of the "floating caravan" (thanks ace).
From there I guess the compromise would consist of boat setup and secondly steering away from getting out on the water (especially as a novice) alone.
So I guess my aim would not be to have a vessel dedicated to single handing in the main but one that can be SH in a pinch.
So the list of requirements I guess wouldn't vary much from what people have said ie sheets to the cockpit, bow thruster a nicety. A fractional rigged sloop to minimise sail area? Would a in boom furling main be a prerequisite also?
I'm still getting through "tips and tricks" so there's a possibility much I'd covered in there but getting a variety of thoughts I still think is worthy.
Cheers olgeta.

southace said...
42 foot is really on boarder line for solo sailing. More like a floating caravan now for me.

firstly most 75k 40 foot plus boats will need a extra 25k at least to get it up to real standards ,

secondly with out the help of electric winches or a good rig set up for ease of reefing and main sail hoisting you may get lazy and just stick with iron horse and headsail.

thirdly parking/docking without a bow thruster can be a challange.

finaly the bigger the boat the more crap you seem to acumulate and the easer it is to loose stuff if not well organised.

i do miss my 37 footer it sailed much better and far better to solo than my new 42 but enjoy having the perks of a washing machine/aircon/coffee machine and a tonne of fresh water.

i wish you all the best with your dream.

regards southace

Ace, you mention that she doesn't sail as well as the old girl. From what I can tell the varience in sail ability of a boat comes down to hull characteristics, rig setup etc not necessarily length.
What's the go when looking at buying a boat in reference to finding out how she sails? You all for a day on the blue as a test sail? A couple of hours? Seems that it would be hard to put get through her paces to get a good idea of sail ability in a short time.
I remember using the inlaws tiny up in Darwin... she looked a beaut... got on the water and she was impossible. ..balance all wrong...bordering on dangerous. Can only imagine making a big investment only to find yourself fighting to maintain a heading at all times.