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simmrr said..
You know Dexport, after watching your doco I really feel engaged to do something for these Island crew. Like running a yacht up there full of medical supplies, water filters and school gear. Ive thought about it before after reading other yachting people travelling to far flung islands that dont have regular visitors. Of the happiness of the islanders but also the need for some basics.

Really Im jealous of their lifestyle. The daily grind of living is really getting to me. At every corner it seems someone wants more than a dollar for their time and its just keeps getting more every day. We are now the richest nation on earth per person on average surpassing Switzerland this year but I dont think our peacefulness, gratefulness or care for each other is keeping pace.

Im still recovering from my spinal fractures but I am going to do this soon. Sadly I put my beachcat up for sale today but I think that feeling will be short lived.

Simmrr,
I feel for you with spinal fractures. I fractured 2 vertebrae a year ago, but refused to let it stop me getting back on my boat. I'm very blessed to have recovered really well, and am planning a 6 month sialing trip this year.
Hope you can keep on sailing.

Thanks McNaughtical, I have a warrior spirit and I wont let it get the better of me.

It's good to hear your doing well and back on board your boat. I remember reading your initial post about your back injury and did feel for you at the time. You went very quiet for a while ,understandably, and its good to see you a regular poster again.

Good luck with your voyage too! Im very interested to hear where you are off too, if thats not prying too much?

For those interested, the following modelling tool on coastal sea levels is a wake up call:
coastalrisk.com.au/
If the term climate change is uncomfortable to some, try global warming, then look at the melting of ice caps and it's impact on... sea level.
I worked in Solomon Islands for some time. A move to Malaita for the people of Ontong Java will not go well. Malaita is a crowded, competitive place. With overcrowding and competition for resources such as gardening space, tempers rise and the geographical and climatic impacts of global warming become social and human impacts.
My grand daughter will be born in a couple of months. There's a reasonable expectation she will live till 2100. That's when the decades of global warming will really be biting. This isn't a possibility 200 years into the future, it's now, and the Menindee Lakes fish kills provide other examples.
If anyone has the opportunity to head to Ontong Java I'd be happy to contribute resources.

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Concepcion said..
See I've got 7 kids, and I just keep thinking what we leave them is what they get to work with - you know that's the richness of life that I got to experience.
I'm not sure it cuts it to argue that despite having the facts, data, modeling and evidence to know better, we still chose to do nothing. Again, what if your wrong - what do you tell your kids, grandkids then?

Seven children and a yacht!! You must be ultra rich!!

When I was young we lived next door to a family with seven children and for me as an only child of a widow it was a very rich experience to visit next door.

Re grandchildren, would that I live long enough to be a grandfather.

I think many people are concerned about what kind of world we are going to leave for Keith Richards.

A thing that has been happening for a while now is that governments, multinationals and other interested parties fund scientists to find "evidence" to support theories that when "proven" they then use to alter public perception for their own benefit.

Is humanity so egotistical that it believes it will be the apex species forever?? Earth is a self repairing organism and if it decides it needs to sneeze to get humanity out of it's nostrils, it will.

Cisco, I can't make up my mind whether you have your head in a very deep hole or you just say these things to get people (like me) to rise to your bait...?
"the earth is a self repairing organism etc etc" Seriously??

Up to 200 years ago the earth might have had a chance but since then another 6 or 7 billion people came along with the age of machinery, engines and nuclear power. And all these people want to eat, have somewhere to live and the other stuff like cars, boats, planes, tvs phones etc etc etc. And then some will want to kill some others with all the power of modern arms and even when they're not killing each other they're training for it.

And all the resources for living and killing comes from the earth plus they also hide all the dangerous crap they don't want back inside the earth or oceans.

And even just being alive creates energy which is heat which when multiplied by several billion gives an increase in temperature even before they do anything. Put several people in a cold room and watch the temperature rise even if they stand still. Put several billion people on the earth and have them move about and it doesn't take a clever guy to work out the result...
Your statement is not only entirely wrong, it is also very dangerous as it gives the distinct idea that we can do whatever we like to the earth and it will fix itself.

Having had a long engineering career necessitating a solid understanding of relevant physics, chemistry, mathematics, scientific method, experimental rigour, data analysis and verification, etc, etc, I find the level of knowledge of these fields amongst those who decry climate change in the face of overwhelming evidence, simply appalling.
The comments of some of these people has caused me to view them in a whole new light.
regards,
Allan

We humans are just grain of sand in the earths history . And it may sneeze and shoot us off like a piece of snot . I agree with that part of cisco;s way of thinking .

But shouldn't we look after this planet as much as we are capable of , while we are still alive ? And not just leave a mess .

The log to go into the earths history books " humans in 200000 years , left a pile of plastic , melted the arctic ice - cap " The next inhabitants will just be shaking their two heads.

The evidence brought to us from nearly all our boffins , does point to us being partly or completely responsible for the warming . So why do some people have trouble accepting , what is to all others now , mostly regarded as fact .

Suggest that these three have merit if you listen to what they say.

Come on nswsailor.

Jordan Peterson is a psychologist with no expertise in climate change - but he does love publicity. If you read Freeman Dysons actual work, he has technical issues with some of the modelling, but doesn't deny anthropogenic climate change. The Heartland institute are a bunch of neo-con, free market nutjobs who dispute the problems with tobacco and oppose public healthcare amongst other positions. A panel laughing and smirking about a 1922 report has nothing to do with the current research.

Against the solid block of high quality scientific research conducted by quality scientists, these clowns are nowhere.

However, here's the rub;

If we act and climate change doesn't exist we get :

Finite fossil fuel stocks preserved for future generations - do we have the right to ALL the world's resources?
Cleaner (in the general pollution sense) energy - less pollution caused illness,
Cheaper energy,
Local jobs & industry

If climate change does exist and we don't act, we are facing disaster.

Clear choice for me

Cheers
Bristol

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Bristolfashion said..
Come on nswsailor.

Jordan Peterson is a psychologist with no expertise in climate change - but he does love publicity. If you read Freeman Dysons actual work, he has technical issues with some of the modelling, but doesn't deny anthropogenic climate change. The Heartland institute are a bunch of neo-con, free market nutjobs who dispute the problems with tobacco and oppose public healthcare amongst other positions. A panel laughing and smirking about a 1922 report has nothing to do with the current research.

Against the solid block of high quality scientific research conducted by quality scientists, these clowns are nowhere.

However, here's the rub;

If we act and climate change doesn't exist we get :

Finite fossil fuel stocks preserved for future generations - do we have the right to ALL the world's resources?
Cleaner (in the general pollution sense) energy - less pollution caused illness,
Cheaper energy,
Local jobs & industry

If climate change does exist and we don't act, we are facing disaster.

Clear choice for me

Cheers
Bristol

Thanks for the refreshing dose of informed comment Bristol
regards,
Allan

While I do believe in climate change and we should severely curtail our CO2 emissions. We do need to remember all that all reports may not be true.

In 2008 some NZ researchers visited The Mortlock Islands of PNG (200+km east from Bougainville) they reported that the Island which are only about 1m high were being inundated due to sea level rise, due to climate change. They were to be the first "climate change refugees" they showed video of the sea lapping in their gardeners etc. They where to be relocated to the mainland of Bouganville. (which is a major cultural problem as the Mortlock Islanders are Polynesian, while the Nth Solomon' are very Melanesian)

I good mate who has traveled there many times. over many years..said Bull....T.

Like alot of PNG and The Solomons coastal village fishermen they use "grenade fishing" left over for WW11, There are a lot of one armed fishermen in the remote villages! Most of the smaller ordinance has been used up, so they used larger ordnance. This has led them to blowing up the outer fringing reef, thus allowing the surf into the lagoon and travel through to the Islands coastal gardens.

World economic forum just had an article about the effect of Europeans discovering America and the climatic effect.

Supposedly the germs that arrived killed a large percentage of the red Indians which meant that the forests regrew from farm clearing and the knock on effect was a lower temperature of the Earth at the time. This led to the mini ice age in Europe that kicked off a hunger and food shortages there.

Im pretty sure I read elsewhere a while back that Icelandic volcanos and a large one in fact popped around the same time and this was the cause of the mini Ice age. It also killed a heap with sulphurus gases that poured out of it.

In the end was it one thing that did it or a mixture and would either party adhering to one cause be wrong? Should not both sides agree that indeed there were multiple factors and that they should indeed agree together that the event happened and that both were a probable cause?

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Cockpit said..
Your statement is not only entirely wrong, it is also very dangerous as it gives the distinct idea that we can do whatever we like to the earth and it will fix itself.

What I am saying is that humanity is at a crossroads and if it wants to be around for much longer, it needs to change it's behaviour dramatically or earth will spit it out. Alleged climate change due to human activity is the least of it.

We are slaves to motor vehicles. People who drive V8 Fords, Holdens and big mother truck Land Cruisers to satisfy their egotistical dick extensions are some of the worst offenders as are the companies who build them.

Then there is the dilema of how we deal with our waste. The so called recycling of packaging is a farce.

Hey everyone take it to another forum. I loves youse all as yachties but am very willing to blue about things I strongly believe , but not here pleese.
ps Cisco I am eldest of 6 and envied single child kids yet they always gravitated to our house where first in was best dressed/ fed but everyone pitched in.

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Bananabender said..
Hey everyone take it to another forum. I loves youse all as yachties but am very willing to blue about things I strongly believe , but not here pleese.
ps Cisco I am eldest of 6 and envied single child kids yet they always gravitated to our house where first in was best dressed/ fed but everyone pitched in.

Agree, out off here on this one!

Wow, kicked off a bit of a storm here, good stuff though!

Personally I think the main problem is just over population, if we were just 3 billion then most of the issue we're discussing wouldn't be an issue. To use an example talked about here, a family with 7 kids. I'd guess there might have been a fair bit of belt-tightening and optimisation of resources to make that possible. In our world today its the opposite, there is just more and more consumption, all the advertising and marketing makes people just want more stuff. Add that to huge countries that are getting richer and buying cars, eating meat etc and its just out of control.
In my view its insane to even contemplate that we don't have a problem. We have put the planet so out of balance that I fear there is no going back.

For those of you old enough to remember. A fair while ago many people used to smoke a pack cigarettes each day, then some smart alecs started saying that maybe its not so great for your health and maybe even for the health of people around you. The companies that had been raking in billions started to "invest" millions in proving that the health issues were unfounded etc. Huge marketing campaigns were made and for around a decade the battle was fought.
There are similar things happening now but over a much wider spectrum. All the huge worldwide conglomerates who've been raking it in for decades are very unwilling to allow change and are fighting hard to disprove or at least blur the facts.

Cisco, I have learnt a lot from your input here over the last few years and I thank you for that but on the topic of global warming/climate change I will get my facts from sources better qualified.

Personally I think that's the great thing about this (and some other) forums - it's like a conversation in the pub, you can start in one place but end up anywhere.

Feisty and a bit opinionated is fine as long as we stay reasonably civil.

Made a break from sail (etc) repairs yesterday.

Cheers

Bristol

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nswsailor said..
Agree, out off here on this one!

Me too.

Though this thread was successfully hijacked by folks meaning good however undisciplined, l recommend this program to all to watch on Sbs on demand!

I'm coming in late to the off topic, but here is the elephant in the room that everybody ignores:
Australia's input to global warming is negligible (1.25%). We do not count. However we can kill our industries, jobs and standard of living, while we pray to the renewables god.

Meanwhile China and most of the Northern hemisphere countries, are increasing their CO2 output by huge multiples of our total output, while we stab ourselves in the gut. For example in China, illegal use of CFC gasses is creating the effect of adding the equivalent of 12 large coal fired power stations every year. (Source-The Economist). And we fuss over adding one.

As Cisco says, if you want to do something about climate change, reduce your use of electricity, drive less, and drive a small car, eat roo instead of beef, live in a small house, etc.

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Yara said..
I'm coming in late to the off topic, but here is the elephant in the room that everybody ignores:
Australia's input to global warming is negligible (1.25%). We do not count. However we can kill our industries, jobs and standard of living, while we pray to the renewables god.

Meanwhile China and most of the Northern hemisphere countries, are increasing their CO2 output by huge multiples of our total output, while we stab ourselves in the gut. For example in China, illegal use of CFC gasses is creating the effect of adding the equivalent of 12 large coal fired power stations every year. (Source-The Economist). And we fuss over adding one.

i don't think that's an elephant in the room at all. and, with respect, i think the line of reasoning that we are so insignificant that we don't need to bother evolving is fatally flawed. also, i'm curious about the "renewables god" kind of rhetoric, and the fear-mongering around "killing" our standard of living (which is already very high in global terms).

the rapidly developing countries are simply catching up with what the so-called "first world" countries did years ago --- pillaging the Earth's resources for maximum profit and economic growth. we are ahead on that curve and therefore at a different level of development, with different responsibilities. we are already a rich country. we can help lead the way out of the old ways of doing things.

as far as i can see, the powerful people pushing against the evolution to renewables almost all have selfish, short-sighted, profit-motive thinking going on. and the idea of constant and continuous economic "growth" is patently absurd. if there is an elephant in the room, it's the one that doesn't question our fear-based survival mechanisms that are too often preyed upon by vested interests. follow the money trail.

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fishmonkey said..

Yara said..
I'm coming in late to the off topic, but here is the elephant in the room that everybody ignores:
Australia's input to global warming is negligible (1.25%). We do not count. However we can kill our industries, jobs and standard of living, while we pray to the renewables god.

Meanwhile China and most of the Northern hemisphere countries, are increasing their CO2 output by huge multiples of our total output, while we stab ourselves in the gut. For example in China, illegal use of CFC gasses is creating the effect of adding the equivalent of 12 large coal fired power stations every year. (Source-The Economist). And we fuss over adding one.

i don't think that's an elephant in the room at all. and, with respect, i think the line of reasoning that we are so insignificant that we don't need to bother evolving is fatally flawed. also, i'm curious about the "renewables god" kind of rhetoric, and the fear-mongering around "killing" our standard of living (which is already very high in global terms).

the rapidly developing countries are simply catching up with what the so-called "first world" countries did years ago --- pillaging the Earth's resources for maximum profit and economic growth. we are ahead on that curve and therefore at a different level of development, with different responsibilities. we are already a rich country. we can help lead the way out of the old ways of doing things.

as far as i can see, the powerful people pushing against the evolution to renewables almost all have selfish, short-sighted, profit-motive thinking going on. and the idea of constant and continuous economic "growth" is patently absurd. if there is an elephant in the room, it's the one that doesn't question our fear-based survival mechanisms that are too often preyed upon by vested interests. follow the money trail.

Keep it to sailing. There is a lot of crap being pushed throughout these posts.

It's a bit tricky. When cruising one does tend to bump into various issues. Some, such as plastics, pollution and over-fishing might be seen as more sailing related and some, such as the social issues of the communities visited, less so.

When to continue on the current thread, start a new one, move to "shootin' the breeze" or "heavy weather" is a difficult question. Any conversation can ramble.

Anyway, we've just had a lovely sail down the Tamar river - certainly thread drift, but definitely sailing related!

Cheers

Bristol

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sirgallivant said..
Though this thread was successfully hijacked by folks meaning good however undisciplined, l recommend this program to all to watch on Sbs on demand!

Undisciplined?? Hijacked?? I'm sure Dex has scored a few more viewers with this post being bumped up several times a day. Have started watching the suggested program but it might take a couple of chunks.

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Yara said..
As Cisco says, if you want to do something about climate change, reduce your use of electricity, drive less, and drive a small car, eat roo instead of beef, live in a small house, etc.

Thanks for that. Just got my rates notice today. Our water consumption is two thirds of the previous period, half of the same period last year, less than half of the suberb average and the regional average and that is in a household of five adults, AND I have had a dripping tap for the last five tears.

Conservation starts at home.

Agree with you there Cisco.

Too easy to make a change when it starts with yourself.

I had the same good news today with my water bill. Way less than last year. Thinking of refining that even more by plumbing the waste water from the washing machine into a resevoir that feeds back to the toilet.

Have changed my garden to a water friendly garden and the trees are now starting to provide some shade.

Climate change I would think is very related to sailing. Different weather patterns to predict, less water to get up rivers, effects on sailing destinations like the salinisation of water. How long till visiters are unable to stop and fill up on water at Ontong?