Southace(or others), what do you think is the reason for the large aggregation of ships off to the South West of the Western Australian coast on your post? Maybe a rich fishing-ground/nutrient upwelling?...Who are they?

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southace said..

Looking again at Southace's map post, what strikes me most is the huge number of AIS signals coming from the area immediately north of the Gulf of Carpentaria (why???), compare this with the area of the South China Sea off Vietnam which is renowned as one of the busiest sea-route areas on the planet, or the Straits of Malacca between Malaysia and Sumatra which appears to be nowhere near as busy...???

I have been wanting to ask the same. I guess it's a gas rig not sure seems deep But busy all the time

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GKandCC said..
Looking again at Southace's map post, what strikes me most is the huge number of AIS signals coming from the area immediately north of the Gulf of Carpentaria (why???), compare this with the area of the South China Sea off Vietnam which is renowned as one of the busiest sea-route areas on the planet, or the Straits of Malacca between Malaysia and Sumatra which appears to be nowhere near as busy...???

You will need to download the app and work it out yourself mate. Marine traffic.

I think AIS is a good thing, on my wish list.

No im not stalking you SA, interested in why listed as "pleasure craft" (which I know she gives you great pleasure) not a "sailing vessel"

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southace said..
I have been wanting to ask the same. I guess it's a gas rig not sure seems deep But busy all the time

I believe it is a rich King Crab fishing ground.

I like AIS. I appreciate the arguments here against it, but the ability to be able to call a ship or boat by name usually gets you a quicker response and visa versa.

One night when nobody else was silly enough to be out I was called directly by VMR to be given a weather update. I had a detailed passage plan left with several people and had my planned route logged with AMSA against my EPIRB, but I never logged in with Sea Rescue. It was nice to know they were watching though.

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GKandCC said..
Looking again at Southace's map post, what strikes me most is the huge number of AIS signals coming from the area immediately north of the Gulf of Carpentaria (why???), compare this with the area of the South China Sea off Vietnam which is renowned as one of the busiest sea-route areas on the planet, or the Straits of Malacca between Malaysia and Sumatra which appears to be nowhere near as busy...???

I think you will find AIS is pretty much demanded in some parts of Asia, just like in the Malacca strait.
AIS is also a pretty awesome life saving device if you happen to be looking for a man over board wearing an Ocean Signal AIS/DSC Personal Man Overboard Locator Device ...although pretty useless to anyone without an AIS receiver.

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MorningBird said..

southace said..

MorningBird said..

Flatty said..
I reckon AIS is a good tool to have. It makes you heaps more visible to others around you. For example lets say theres a private yacht heading in your direction about 10 NM away without AIS at night, you do not have AIS either. Neither of you know the other exists (apart from radar, although on a rainy night radar would be not much help). Until you are about 5 NM or under i doubt you will see running lights. This gives you significantly less time to react.

If you both had AIS you would have been watching each other for hours and know Name, Length, Type of vessel, Rego, course and maybe even a photo.

I havent heard about the boat. I will have to look it up now, i Hope everyone is OK.

It is a good tool to have and is very useful in the right circumstances. But it isn't essential and therefore shouldn't be compulsory.

The Easly spent 500k on tax payers money today. With no avail,
$300 bucks on ais would have found me strait away holed up in a bay . The SAR would have then called me up on vhf and then reported back to my worried family. What's the right circumstances morning bird?

We just may have to agree to disagree.
I agree that if they had anchored to avoid weather it might have been useful, but if they had a VHF working they could have called up and told people they were safe. If the boat has sunk AIS is sunk with it.
If they had done some passage planning and told people where they were going etc the search may have been unnecessary. Setting off an epirb would have been better than relying on AIS.
My view is that sound planning and safety awareness rather than reliance on such systems is how mariners should operate. AIS is a detection and collision avoidance system, not an emergency system.
There are very many useful items for a yacht to have onboard but only the essential ones are and should be compulsory.

I agree with you MB, i dont think AIS should not be compulsary. In this case sure AIS would have told us the last known location, providing it was on. As others have mentioned so would of EPIRB, Mayday call on VHF, HF(providing that they are in range) or perhaps best of all a satelite phone. You can call or text the situation to someone in the event of an emergency.

"My view is that sound planning and safety awareness rather than reliance on such systems is how mariners should operate." I really like that statement. Too many people get into trouble relying on electronics and other technology. If something doesnt feel right you need to have a plan B when coastal or ocean cruising. I am not suggesting these people in the wooden boat dont do these things, i am just putting it out there.

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southace said..

In regards to the fishing vessels at the bottom. Sometimes i have noticed the marine traffic app will say "16 hours ago, 30 minutes ago, 1 second ago" it is just picking up signals. The cluster could just be a couple of vessels.

They are still looking for MH370 In that region arnt they? If not, that looks like prime Bottom longline territory or orange roughy trawling.

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Jolene said..

GKandCC said..
Looking again at Southace's map post, what strikes me most is the huge number of AIS signals coming from the area immediately north of the Gulf of Carpentaria (why???), compare this with the area of the South China Sea off Vietnam which is renowned as one of the busiest sea-route areas on the planet, or the Straits of Malacca between Malaysia and Sumatra which appears to be nowhere near as busy...???

I think you will find AIS is pretty much demanded in some parts of Asia, just like in the Malacca strait.

Yep, Indonesia requires all vessels incl fishing and visiting rec boats to have AIS, but I reckon a vast amount of local fishing boats don't..

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In regards to the fishing vessels at the bottom. Sometimes i have noticed the marine traffic app will say "16 hours ago, 30 minutes ago, 1 second ago" it is just picking up signals. The cluster could just be a couple of vessels.

They are still looking for MH370 In that region arnt they? If not, that looks like prime Bottom longline territory or orange roughy trawling.

The cluster can't just be a couple of vessels as they are all individually identified by MMSI
The satellites are not always in range for tracking so it's not real time.

AIS is good but I would have to agree should not be compulsory.
It's an another device to drain power.
While it is not a huge power drain, it does all add up. I don't think it would be wrong for a small sailboat to turn off transmitting and or receiving to conserve power at time when a good watch is being maintained, and not in a shipping channel.

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Craig66 said..



I think AIS is a good thing, on my wish list.

No im not stalking you SA, interested in why listed as "pleasure craft" (which I know she gives you great pleasure) not a "sailing vessel"

It's a category, pleasure craft non commercial

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john24 said..

In regards to the fishing vessels at the bottom. Sometimes i have noticed the marine traffic app will say "16 hours ago, 30 minutes ago, 1 second ago" it is just picking up signals. The cluster could just be a couple of vessels.

They are still looking for MH370 In that region arnt they? If not, that looks like prime Bottom longline territory or orange roughy trawling.

The cluster can't just be a couple of vessels as they are all individually identified by MMSI
The satellites are not always in range for tracking so it's not real time.

AIS is good but I would have to agree should not be compulsory.
It's an another device to drain power.
While it is not a huge power drain, it does all add up. I don't think it would be wrong for a small sailboat to turn off transmitting and or receiving to conserve power at time when a good watch is being maintained, and not in a shipping channel.

3 watts per 500k government jet fuel

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john24 said..


AIS is good but I would have to agree should not be compulsory.
It's an another device to drain power.
While it is not a huge power drain, it does all add up. I don't think it would be wrong for a small sailboat to turn off transmitting and or receiving to conserve power at time when a good watch is being maintained, and not in a shipping channel.

My AIS receiver draws a fair bit of power all the time. It's part of the VHF radio and even if de selected it is running in the background when the radio is turned on. I discovered this one day when the alarm went off and startled the crap out of me. The ship was 50 miles away so I reset the alarm to 1 mile. I sail off the East Coast of Australia in an area that used to be very busy with coastal ships but if it was not for the navy ships I would not see many ships at all.
Making AIS compulsory in all vessels that proceed more than 3m miles off would mean the AIS would have to be transmitting 100% of the time. There are a lot of people who don't want this! Then there are the people that keep their AIS on when in marinas!

The present regulations that require vessels to have radios and EPIRBs when proceeding 3 miles off shore combined with good planning is all that we should be forced to have. The fact that there has been no EPIRB signal from this vessel in SA is alarming.

Last year during the military exercises in QLD I could see all the Aus navy on AIS but not the US and others!

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MorningBird said..


Once you've seen them there is no need to talk to them. A good watch won't let them out of sight.

Bull****.

When you have large ships maneuvering near you you need to speak to them.

THEY ARE SO FAST

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Ramona said..

john24 said..


AIS is good but I would have to agree should not be compulsory.
It's an another device to drain power.
While it is not a huge power drain, it does all add up. I don't think it would be wrong for a small sailboat to turn off transmitting and or receiving to conserve power at time when a good watch is being maintained, and not in a shipping channel.

My AIS receiver draws a fair bit of power all the time. It's part of the VHF radio and even if de selected it is running in the background when the radio is turned on. I discovered this one day when the alarm went off and startled the crap out of me. The ship was 50 miles away so I reset the alarm to 1 mile. I sail off the East Coast of Australia in an area that used to be very busy with coastal ships but if it was not for the navy ships I would not see many ships at all.
Making AIS compulsory in all vessels that proceed more than 3m miles off would mean the AIS would have to be transmitting 100% of the time. There are a lot of people who don't want this! Then there are the people that keep their AIS on when in marinas!

The present regulations that require vessels to have radios and EPIRBs when proceeding 3 miles off shore combined with good planning is all that we should be forced to have. The fact that there has been no EPIRB signal from this vessel in SA is alarming.

There's been 3 boats in the past two years in South Australian waters that have disappeared without a single trace. 2 of them where fitted with EPIIRBs.
i leave my AIS on permanently since I fitted it 4 months ago. With all my power shut down bar the AIS the Victron BMV is showing .1 of a amp. Less than charging the iPhone.
As a solo sailor if something was to happen to me and I was unable to activate the EPIRB at least the AIS will show my track and position of vessel automaticly also with friends and loved ones following my progress the recovery rate will be far higher than looking for a needle in a haystack.
Just like Flight MH370 which is located somewhere in the Indian Ocean because someone turned off the AIS locating device .
Anyway day 4 searching today. Let's hope for a miracle .

I suppose the bottom line here is, is that whatever has precluded the crew from making a call on VHF is the same as what would prevent an AIS signal to be set considering most rec boaties would just simply split the VHF antenna giving the AIS the same range as a voice radio call, and even less would have subscribed to the satellite service of the system.

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Toph said..
I suppose the bottom line here is, is that whatever has precluded the crew from making a call on VHF is the same as what would prevent an AIS signal to be set considering most rec boaties would just simply split the VHF antenna giving the AIS the same range as a voice radio call, and even less would have subscribed to the satellite service of the system.

You don't need to subscribe to a satellite service, they just listen in and record what's out there. You just subscribe to be able to see the data which the government does. You can download de-identified data from AMSA for all ship movements around australia 24x7x365

One of the reasons I don't want AIS transmission to be compulsory is just the idea of being tracked all the time. It's publicly available information. Who knows how the data can be used. It wouldn't be acceptable on land.
That's not to say I don't think it is a good idea to have AIS on, as I do, just not compulsory.

I believe if you have your mobile phone with you on land, you can be tracked via the phone's 'fingerprint'.

This thread got "hijacked" onto a debate about AIS.
What I think is a bigger issue, is a very common story of buying a boat away from home base, and immediately setting sail for home. So often the boat has serious flaws, which are only discovered once at sea. Also the new owners don't know the boat very well. All of which add up to a disaster waiting to happen.

So please, sort out a new boat locally, with short shakedown outings, before starting a serious trip home.

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Yara said..
This thread got "hijacked" onto a debate about AIS.

No not really Yara, but the thread title doesn't really match the opening topic.

The title 'A Wooden Boat Has Gone Missing' is followed by the first sentence saying "I think it should be mandatory to carry A.i.S on all vessels more than 10 nm offshore."... There is actually no mention of the wooden boat or how they came to purchase her or being lost at sea, other than an AIS consideration.

But your comments are worthy of another discussion

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Yara said..
This thread got "hijacked" onto a debate about AIS.
What I think is a bigger issue, is a very common story of buying a boat away from home base, and immediately setting sail for home. So often the boat has serious flaws, which are only discovered once at sea. Also the new owners don't know the boat very well. All of which add up to a disaster waiting to happen.

So please, sort out a new boat locally, with short shakedown outings, before starting a serious trip home.

It's uncertain whether this boat had an EPIRB or whether the VHF radio works. Lack of planning is the main problem here. This is a perfect example of a case that would have been much better transporting the boat by truck from Coffins Bay to Goolwa. The plan was obviously to sail this boat around the Goolwa area and it would be ideal for that.

They would have had to be lifted out of the water at the nearest harbour and trucked to Goolwa because the mouth of the Murray isn't navigable, yes?

Apparently last night they did the ET thang and called home.
Extraordinary...is what ABC Lisa called it this morning.

Now there should be a full investigation.

www.9news.com.au/national/missing-south-australia-fishermen-found-alive-in-waters-near-goolwa-after-police-search/fd8bc5a8-8c8d-4ffe-ad5f-87b09b9fed3e?ref=BP_RSS_ninenews_0_missing-south-australian-fishermen-found-after-nearly-a-week-_100920

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Yara said..
This thread got "hijacked" onto a debate about AIS.
What I think is a bigger issue, is a very common story of buying a boat away from home base, and immediately setting sail for home. So often the boat has serious flaws, which are only discovered once at sea. Also the new owners don't know the boat very well. All of which add up to a disaster waiting to happen.

So please, sort out a new boat locally, with short shakedown outings, before starting a serious trip home.

And dont offload unseaworthy boats onto novices, if you know they could be putting themselves at risk.
Not saying this happened here but it certainly did a few weeks ago when a H28 went ashore and finally broke up after a long salvage attempt.

SAR plane at 7;45 thismorning

Police Boat approaching the area:
I think they might have been drifting and got within phone reception.

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Guitz said..
They would have had to be lifted out of the water at the nearest harbour and trucked to Goolwa because the mouth of the Murray isn't navigable, yes?

I'm guessing but I suspect they were using navionics on a phone for navigation. Locally navionics shows an entrance to the Shoalhaven river that is not usually there!
More likely they were planning on a mooring at Victor harbour.