Hi all,

I'm moving from small cat sailing (Nacra 4.5) to a keel boat. Initially for coastal cruising on the east coast with grander ambitions of ocean passages and maybe a circumnavigation.

I'm keen on a smaller more simple boat to keep costs down and keep the dream attainable. My current boat list includes; Currawong 30, Brolga 33, Walker H28, Swanson 28 and 32. My budget all in, ready to slip the lines for a longer voyage would be $50k.

My question for the brains trust is, is it more cost effective to buy a cheaper boat requiring work eg. repowering and rerigging, or buy a turn key boat closer to my upper budget limit. I have good diy skills but lack boat specific experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

Hi Greenblue.
You will get the complete range of opinions here on this one.
Here is mine.
If you can get your boat with EVERYTHING that you want and need for that price, get it and go sailing.
If you can get your boat with MOST of what you want and need for a really good price, think carefully about the time it will take, the cost of keeping the boat on the hard while you do the work and can you find a place that will actually let you do the work. If so, get it, fix it and go sailing.

If you can't find the previous two categories, find a mate with a boat that you can crew on to build your skills till the right one comes along.

gary

I would be having a serious look at a Cal 40 on ebay atm

Hey GB,

Gary's answer is excellent and great advice. I can add a few thoughts that may help. I too am pretty handy and this helps a LOT, however . boats can be cheap, maintaining and fitting them out is expensive. If your budget allows it, buy the boat that comes with everything you need in working order. Owners need to keep their boats up to date if they plan on selling easily. You lose money on boats, no way around it, it is what it is. The main costs on a boat are :-
1. engine (expect to pay minimum $10K if you install yourself)
2. sails (new main and jib expect min $10K)
3. electronics (nav and radios etc) expect to pay minimum $5K up to 10K
4. Wind vane (if solo circumnavigating) but if new to yachting, don't worry about this too much.
5. Hull condition (osmotic blistering, keel condition, rot in hull)
6. Rigging, Standing and running rigging will also set you back up to $10K for a small boat.

Costs escalate radically and these are only the majors. The minors add up very quickly. The beauty is you can sail with lots of these items missing and pay on the drip feed which makes it affordable over time, but not cheap, and it will still enable you to be betwixt by the love of sailing. Pay the money for a good thorough survey (hull and rigging) so at least you should know what you will be up for in advance and be prepared to walk away or seriously renegotiate a better deal.
Hope this helps you. Every boat will cost you more than you think, so make sure you buy the boat that you love so it's worth it.

DM ??

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greenblue said..
Hi all,

I'm moving from small cat sailing (Nacra 4.5) to a keel boat. Initially for coastal cruising on the east coast with grander ambitions of ocean passages and maybe a circumnavigation.

I'm keen on a smaller more simple boat to keep costs down and keep the dream attainable. My current boat list includes; Currawong 30, Brolga 33, Walker H28, Swanson 28 and 32. My budget all in, ready to slip the lines for a longer voyage would be $50k.

My question for the brains trust is, is it more cost effective to buy a cheaper boat requiring work eg. repowering and rerigging, or buy a turn key boat closer to my upper budget limit. I have good diy skills but lack boat specific experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

The Brolga 33 is pretty close to the sweet spot in your list, I owned a Currawong for over 10 years and while it was an excellent sea boat it was a little cramped. 34 foot is about as big as you want to go. The running costs are reasonable. The loads are manageable for solo sailing and there is a good turn of speed. The Swanson 32 is fine but I would not consider the 28. Plenty of Swanson 36's I would be happy with.
The question of cost effectiveness is very dependent on your expectations. Some people will spend enormous sums on glossy boats while others are quite happy to spend their time at sea on seaworthy yachts with the odd blemish. I would suggest sitting on your money and spending some time at your local club or mooring field getting to know the locals. Something will land in your lap.

I've always liked having boats under 35'.

# It's nice to have all the electrics, but you don't have to have them. Masthead, navigation, refrigeration etc
# It's nice to have an anchor winch for cruising, but under this it's still manageable without.
# It's relatively easy to single or double hand at this size, think about getting into a marina and packing up the boat. Everything is just that much larger above this LOA.

If planning on doing more offshore, get something that suits the budget now and upgrade later.

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PhilY said..
If planning on doing more offshore, get something that suits the budget now and upgrade later.

I reckon that would be more expensive in the long run, you rarely get back what you put in.

If you buy an older boat and refit then you get the benefit of having and using all the new gear that you want, your not paying for old gear (probably near the end of its life) that someone else wanted.

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greenblue said..
Hi all,

I'm moving from small cat sailing (Nacra 4.5) to a keel boat. Initially for coastal cruising on the east coast with grander ambitions of ocean passages and maybe a circumnavigation.

I'm keen on a smaller more simple boat to keep costs down and keep the dream attainable. My current boat list includes; Currawong 30, Brolga 33, Walker H28, Swanson 28 and 32. My budget all in, ready to slip the lines for a longer voyage would be $50k.

My question for the brains trust is, is it more cost effective to buy a cheaper boat requiring work eg. repowering and rerigging, or buy a turn key boat closer to my upper budget limit. I have good diy skills but lack boat specific experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

Boats vary so much in condition that there's no hard and fast rules. Personally I'd be looking for a boat that had most of the fundamentals in good shape, but was not over-loaded with gear that is ageing or excessive. Action's list of costs sounds pretty good when it comes to assessing how much it would cost to fill in the missing bits.

Personally, having done a bunch of jaunts from Port Stephens to Bermagui on my own boats, and lots of ocean miles on OPs, I'd reckon the H28 and Swanson 28 are too close to the slow side for NSW coastal passages. The distance between ports, and the requirement to work the tides on many of them, make a quicker boat significantly easier in my experience. However, I've been limited by available time when making passafges and other people have found that Top Hats etc are fine, so it's one of those things where different approaches work for different people.

I wouldn't be too worried about electronics, personally. They are generally easy to fit and you can get by with a minimal setup. For example, my 28'er just used a cheap transom-mounted fishfinder like this as a combined GPS/echo sounder.

www.anacondastores.com/fishing/marine/marine-electronics/fish-finders/lowrance-hook-reveal-5x-splitshot-fishfindergps-plotter/90160332?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAhuYEp0bqsA9TISHM9c011M6lQ7W_cTvHKzqsu2qMIk-6qZIoy4WecaAsFmEALw_wcB

We're sailing with about 2.2m draft on Port Stephens, which is filled with shoals, but just use a laptop with Sailor app or something like that for naviguessing and it's fine.

One important thing to look at is where you intend to work on the boat for maintenance and upgrades. Working on a mooring (with a gen set when necessary) is OK but can be very, very frustrating with a smaller boat or on a mooring in Sydney where guys with Rivieras set you rolling about whenever you're trying to do delicate work.

For NSW coastal work on your budget you may even want to consider a maxi trailer-sailer if you haven't got a good place to work on a boat afloat. We (and the dogs) spend 4-5 days on the boat every time we go down to it so found a 36'er much more comfortable than the 28'er, but if it was just for two people actively cruising up and down the coast something like a Magnum 8.5 could be fantastic fior its combination of offshore ability, pace, and the shoal draft.

Another thing to consider is what sort of dinghy you want and you plan to do when anchored. Most people just seem to just chill, but a minority (like us) love to have lots of toys (fast dinghy, inflatable kayak, perhaps bicycles and boards) and they take space and cash.

The life cycle of a yacht's refit is about 20 years if you are sailing off shore. There is an art in buying boats at the optimum price point and it depends on whether you are a sailor who likes to sail or sailor who likes to build.

If you are a sailor then the best buy is to find someone who has completely re-fitted their boat and needs to move it on, but no mater how much advice you get its relatively easy to pick up a lemon that needs new motor, mast, sails, systems etc easily eclipsing the initial purchase price of the types of boats you are considering. Its amazing what sellers try and hide.

If you are a builder, then buy the most honest original yacht with sound bones and build it back up.

You only have another day to bid on Lydia's Currawong, currently at 7,500. It was completely re-fitted not too long ago.

marineauctions.nextlot.com/public/sales/103433/lots


A

Just spoke to a mate who got the cal 40 for under 12k

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lydia said..
Just spoke to a mate who got the cal 40 for under 12k

Even if it needs new rigging, new engine and new sails I still think its good buying and being a 40 footer its going to be that much more comfortable than a 30 footer for a long term liveaboard who aspires to long range cruising as the OP indicated.

Since everyone is putting in their 2c worth I will. I vote for refit. I got my Martzcraft very very cheap because it was run down and rust block motor. But its hull was solid. After new sea cocks, new motor (twice because first one was a dud), new rigging, new steering and new electrics I am happy with the boat because I know every inch of it.

A massive thanks for all the comprehensive replies. There is a lot of really good info here.

Magic Dragon was actually the boat that sparked my post. Im in Brisbane so I might still inspect her but Ramona's comment regarding the size of a Currawong 30 to a Brolga 33 is certainly food for thought. Size is always going to be a trade off so I'm weighing up costs vs comfort.

I'm happy for it to be a structurally sound boat with a decent hull and rig and I could do the other work. I know how much of a rabbit hole restorations can be. I bought a vintage caravan that I was going to make some minor cosmetic changes to. That turned into a complete gutting and rebuild due to shoddy work. I can only image that it could go even more pear shaped on a sailboat.

One of the good things about buying boats is that most potentially shoddy stuff is visible, in my experience, because (IMHO) boats shouldn't have areas that you can't get to and inspect.

Just one thing about size; if you're going from a Nacra 4.5 you're already facing a big jump up in size and loads even if you go to a 30 footer. I did a Hobart on a Currawong (correction, part of a Hobart) and it was a fine boat offshore under three reefs and like all half tonners, still managed to be nice and light to handle. Although we've sailed lots of big boats, we notice that loads on a 36'er are getting close to the limit of what we want to face for casual sailing - and our 36'er is a lot lighter than a Brolga or similar boat. Incidentally, looking at ratings I suspect that many of the old 33-34 footers like Brolgas have been loaded well past their design weight, while oddly many 30 footers of similar style and design seem to be closer to their original specs.

Obviously it's totally down to your individual taste and preference.

I am a fan of faster sailing up and down the NSW coast. I like to travel in daylight hours and sail a boat that can surf nicely as well. For me that means a more downwind performance orientated boat than the Joubert designs. If I was to lose my cat and go to a mono I would look up a Farr 1104, one because they are so cool and two because they can truck downwind nice and quickly, and downwind is mostly where cruisers go. Plus they go pretty well still. Look for a solid glass one as some foam ones have delaminated a bit. I also really like Peter Cole boats and a Nantucket 31 is a nice boat that sails well although a Bounty 35 would be huge and an East Coast 31 is big inside. Cole's boats are always really well designed - like Joe Adams, he designed nice slim boats (Theme and The Cole 43) and nice fat ones (the 31 and Bounty 35).
For your money I would be looking at something a little faster than the Jouberts - maybe a good deal on an old Adams 13 or a nice Radford , heck even a nice Mottle or Jarkan 10.5 can clip along well downhill. I like the straighter aft lines on a boat. The bum on a Defiance 30 makes my head swim.
But if you want to head offshore straight away then the choices are different - but for a coastal cruiser, scooting a bit faster is useful to cross bars at the right time or get somewhere before dark. Sailing at less than 5 knots is not what I like doing anymore. Averaging 8 on the chart is why I like the cat.
Now really, if I was to lose my boat, I would buy a tri. I know they are pains to insure but if it was just the two of us a Cirrostratus trimaran gets you speed, accomodation and safety all in a 33ft package - wonderful boats.


Plus they have a wishbone - and I love wishbones.