Hey Harb

i like the RF444 for mine, i may get myself two as it will speed the process up a bit.

my setup is forward, lower forward, cap shrouds, aft lower and a single back stay that splits to two half way down.
all 8 points are currently on turn buckles. i currently detach the front two stays and leave the rest.

took it out on Sunday and it handles lovely. all the systems are starting to work nicely, launching and recovery was pretty easy.
must admit the swing out-extendable drawbar draws some attention, as it adds 5m to the trailer length.

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Stuman92 said..

i like the RF444 for mine, i may get myself two as it will speed the process up a bit.

Hi Stuman,
If you're thinking of going that way I would suggest you looked at the RF444 / RF2331 combo. The RF2331 has a finer adjustment and allows you to better balance the tension on the front stays as the RF444 has the holes spaced at 1/2" and the RF2331 at 5/32".
Alternatively you could use a turnbuckle with one of the RF444 and balance it that way.

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Stuman92 said..

took it out on Sunday and it handles lovely. all the systems are starting to work nicely, launching and recovery was pretty easy.
must admit the swing out-extendable drawbar draws some attention, as it adds 5m to the trailer length.

Almost long enough to launch from home ?
As long as it does the job and keeps your car wheels dry who cares if it draws attention.

Yeah it worked well. Works best on a Ute, on an SUV its still a bit short personally but I have the backup strap just in case.

The RF444 with a turnbuckle should work well.
I plan on doing so rigging work this week, so it's something ill be looking at. Just trying to make raising the mast as easy as possible for one person.

The feeling of sailing a boat you spent 12+ months restoring is amazing!!

Hi guys,

I am just finishing off my RedWitch in Adelaide.

I'm copping lots of s*** from many people saying that my trailer and boat combination aren't compliant with towing laws because I don't have any brakes fitted. I guess the speculation is the craft weighs more than 750kg, I have no idea at all?????

I've been told to stay away from brakes as they would only give me 6 months and corrode to nothing after having been submerged repeatedly...

Any thoughts?

Kris

Hey Mate, Quick google on SA laws:
www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/vehicle_regulation/

Section 15.1, if 750kgs or under you don't need brakes. My GTM for my red jacket and trailer is registered as equal to 750kg. I would take everything off the boat you can unbolt, take it to a weigh bridge, get it registered as <=750kg so you don't need brakes.

Also make sure it complies with the towing capacity of your car.

Haha I was thinking of stripping her down and doing that.

I'll see how the first weigh in goes. I've got a local recycling depot that said they'll do a casual weigh in so I see where I stand.

This has all started from trying to get insurance for water and land cover. The evaluator said straight up there'd better be brakes if it was over the 750kg.

I'm about to move up from a Rav4 to a Pajero also. That'll help as the unbraked tow I have now is only 600kg and I have known for a while I'm probably gonna have to push the envelope to a 750kg tow.

Thanks for the advice

Kris

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Kristo26 said..

I've been told to stay away from brakes as they would only give me 6 months and corrode to nothing after having been submerged repeatedly...

If you're over 750kg you have no choice but to fit brakes. You can get corrosion resistant disk brakes with bronze and 316 components which will last longer then the standard galv stuff and are easy to wash with fresh water when you get home.
I've got a set of rusty Alko caravan electric drums installed on my trailer which was supposed to be a temp solution a year ago as that was all I had at hand at the time. I did cover them with Penetrol and then sprayed some lithium greese on the guts and springs but did expect them to rust away after a month or two and the magnets to short out after a few dips in salt water so didn't even bothered to flush them out with fresh water. To my surprise they are still working ok and not much more rusted then when I first fitted them in a year ago. I'll see what they look like in 12 months and let you know but if I was to pull them apart every 6-12 months and treat them with Penetrol and waterproof grease I reckon they could last forever.

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Harb said..

Kristo26 said..

I've been told to stay away from brakes as they would only give me 6 months and corrode to nothing after having been submerged repeatedly...

If you're over 750kg you have no choice but to fit brakes. You can get corrosion resistant disk brakes with bronze and 316 components which will last longer then the standard galv stuff and are easy to wash with fresh water when you get home.
I've got a set of rusty Alko caravan electric drums installed on my trailer which was supposed to be a temp solution a year ago as that was all I had at hand at the time. I did cover them with Penetrol and then sprayed some lithium greese on the guts and springs but did expect them to rust away after a month or two and the magnets to short out after a few dips in salt water so didn't even bothered to flush them out with fresh water. To my surprise they are still working ok and not much more rusted then when I first fitted them in a year ago. I'll see what they look like in 12 months and let you know but if I was to pull them apart every 6-12 months and treat them with Penetrol and waterproof grease I reckon they could last forever.

I did a weigh in today after stripping everything except for the mast and interior cushions.

She's a heavy one coming in at .98 of a tonne (980kg). But at least I know now and I'll take some positive steps towards making it safer.

Harb that's great your brakes are still going. I'm going to probably look at the possibility of just using a hydraulic drum system to keep it simple. I'm eyeing off two cars and I don't like my chances of them already having a brake controller already installed.

At least you've given me some confidence knowing its not going to be something that has an expiry date each year.

Cheers

Kris

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Kristo26 said..
I'm going to probably look at the possibility of just using a hydraulic drum system to keep it simple.

Hi Kris, the reason I went with drums was because I already had a complete set of electric drum brakes from when I replaced the brakes in my caravan, already have the electric controler fitted and didn't want to wait one week for a disc brake kit to arrive from fleabay. If you actually have to buy the brakes I'd suggest you look at disk brakes rather then messing around with drums as discs work better and will outlast a drum setup many times over plus are simpler to setup and very likely cheaper to buy.
When I eventually have to change the existing setup I will change to disk brakes but will use mechanical brakes rather then hydraulics. Since my boat and trailer is under 1.5T going to hydraulic brakes is a bit of overkill as mechanical brakes will do the job up to 2T without the need for a controller, no messing around with brake fluid or leaking seals and using 316 wire and bulldog grips will make sure the brake cable outlasts the axle .

Thanks Harb,

Ultimately I would love to strip my trailer apart like Stuman has done. His build has been amazing through out.

My hesitation over which sort of brakes is simply because I have half axles (torsion bars) instead of a proper axle. And I'm hoping I can weld a brake flange to the small space I have and still be able to get bolts through.

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Kristo26 said..

My hesitation over which sort of brakes is simply because I have half axles (torsion bars) instead of a proper axle. And I'm hoping I can weld a brake flange to the small space I have and still be able to get bolts through.

The axles look like standard Red issue, I had the same ones on my 1980 trailer but they were in much worse shape as tube holding the rubber rusted away completely. I went to full length 45mm axle but had to modify it and drop it 4", in hindsight should have gone with Trojan Duratorque torsion bars which btw also comes with drum or disc brakes. You may want to look at how they fit the brakes on them and see if it gives you any new ideas otherwise if the axles are already on their way out and trailer frame still good maybe look at changing them to Duratorque 081020LH & RH disc braked units .

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Kristo26 said..


I did a weigh in today after stripping everything except for the mast and interior cushions.

She's a heavy one coming in at .98 of a tonne (980kg). But at least I know now and I'll take some positive steps towards making it safer.

Harb that's great your brakes are still going. I'm going to probably look at the possibility of just using a hydraulic drum system to keep it simple. I'm eyeing off two cars and I don't like my chances of them already having a brake controller already installed.

At least you've given me some confidence knowing its not going to be something that has an expiry date each year.

Cheers

Kris

Why would you strip everything out for a weigh in? When the Transport inspectors weigh you with their portable scales or the insurance company weighs it after an accident - they don't let you strip everything out.

Legal weight is what it weighs on the day, full of sails, food, water, fuel, beer - Whatever is in there when you tow it to the water.

^^^^^^^Dead rite! Try to tell the cops or insurance that the trailer is only 250kg and why should you have breaks!^^^^

It was more the boat supplies store Binks Marine talking about brakes. They provide Club Marine Insurance evaluations but said when it came to the trailer what I was doing was illegal. I completely understand why that law is in place and I don't want to cause any danger to anyone on the road.

To be really honest I guessed the weight would only be 800ish Kg loaded, so it took me by surprise.

I plan on going to my local ramp (O'Sullivan's Beach for anyone in SA) for launching and it's rather steep getting down so it'll be for the best.

The axle stubs are only 39mm and have been told that's not thick enough. I'm just going to use that for the moment and a hydraulic disk setup is going to be ordered over the week.

I'll get a welder to help me install new half axles over time and do a bit of an overhaul on the trailer too.

Ughhh talking about trailers and my RedWitch is ready to go. I have no sailing experience so I'm pretty keen to get into it and start the learning :/

39mm axles are still sold new. If brakes are required then overriding brakes will suffice. They only help when braking when going forwards, will do nothing going down that boat ramp at O'Sullivan's Beach. That ramp looks pretty good too. Might need an extension bar though to float her off.

My Trailer weighed in at 740kg when i took it over the weighbridge (thats trailer boat and Rigging)
so i just skated under not needing brakes and to be honest you really dont need them, mine pulls up fine.

Also after a lot of testing extension bars still dont make it long enough to float the trailer off, my extension bar adds 5m to the trailer and that's still not enough.

Im currently looking into alternate ideas so i can launch solo, maybe an electric winch.

Im glad i swapped mine over to a Gullwing axle, as it is hassle free and just works..... :)

Let me know Kris if you need any helps or idea :)

At ORSSC the boys sailing Etchells (and witches) attach the trailer to the tow bar wit a long rope and back the trailer down the ramp. You need a 3rd wheel at the hitch bar of the trailer. It is a bit of a pain but it is the only feasible way to do it as we do not have a crane or boat lift facility.
You must make sure the yacht is attached to the trailer and let go only when floating. I saw a witch falling off the trailer 1/2 way to the water resulting in a write-off, the pin had been removed by an inexperienced new crew, the skipper put a bit to much break and the yacht kept going.
Looks easy when you know what you do!

All this talk of extended draw bars and ropes, I just have an old ute and drive the thing deep enough in until the yacht floats off. Never deep enough that the front wheels touch water but does the trick on all the ramps around rockingham. Been doing this with the ute for 8 years and theres minimal rust, Everytime I read one of these posts I always think you boys are over complicating matters, Little salt water is okay as long as it's washed off.

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felixdcat said..
It is a bit of a pain but it is the only feasible way to do it as we do not have a crane or boat lift facility.

When I moved mine recently I had to use a boat lift - given the cost I wouldn't want to have to do it regularly.

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Stuman92 said..

Jake888 said..

Was thinking about putting an electric trolling motor on her hooked to a couple of truck batteries with some solar panels and wind turbine. Like the idea of quiet and relying only on wind and sun to power me. Not sure if practicality would stop me. Have a look on YouTube at sailing Uma, they convert their yacht to electric, and like yourself stuman like to build things from scratch.

Yeah i looked into the trolling motor but not sure they would have the required power to really do all that much.

As an FYI, at least for river sailing I'm able to move my Red Witch around on a 12lb WaterSnake Asp trolling motor and it plods along quite happily - although I wouldn't want to try and go against the current with it, it makes a fine backup motor - for regular use I think one of the bigger electric motors would have no problem pushing a Red Witch along.

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Jake888 said..
All this talk of extended draw bars and ropes, I just have an old ute and drive the thing deep enough in until the yacht floats off. Never deep enough that the front wheels touch water but does the trick on all the ramps around rockingham. Been doing this with the ute for 8 years and theres minimal rust, Everytime I read one of these posts I always think you boys are over complicating matters, Little salt water is okay as long as it's washed off.

You will need an extra long ute to be able to float an Etchell or a Witch! I think the ute would float before the yacht!

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felixdcat said..

Jake888 said..
All this talk of extended draw bars and ropes, I just have an old ute and drive the thing deep enough in until the yacht floats off. Never deep enough that the front wheels touch water but does the trick on all the ramps around rockingham. Been doing this with the ute for 8 years and theres minimal rust, Everytime I read one of these posts I always think you boys are over complicating matters, Little salt water is okay as long as it's washed off.

You will need an extra long ute to be able to float an Etchell or a Witch! I think the ute would float before the yacht!

To be fair I have a lift kit and 33 inch tyres on the ute, I launch a red jacket, most ramps the side steps don't touch the water and I'm getting out the drivers door onto the dry part of the ramp, launched on a few shallower ramps where the trailer is on the sand flats (near Bell St) still does the job nicely.

If i remember well the red jacket has a shorter keel?

This is a photo of a Red Jacket being launched the summer of 1969-70 in Perth. Probably Nedlands sailing club. Perth was full of Redjackets at the time.

Yes red jackets are 2 foot shorter and the draw is only 700mm from memory.
Red witch draw is 900 plus trailer height of say 200 so you need to it down a fair way.

I've started designing and pricing launching mine with an electric winch so I can launch it solo.I know straps work fine but there is no way I'm launch solo with a strap.

You can get a suitable winch for $120 that way there is no risk and no heavy lifting, will still need the drop down front wheel (will be my spare wheel and spare hub)

ill put some pics up later of my design. Yanks seem to do it a lot.

Sorry Stuman I've kinda turned your thread into "trailer talk".

But still this is really interesting with the difference everyone has launching their boats. I hope you find a winch system that works.

For now I'm going with a $23 strap from bunnings that's rated up to 3.2 tonne. It "should" be long enough.

I'm still puzzled how my witch has gained over 500lb over everyone else's although she has got an old space sailor trailer and she has got added glass on the inside. Guessing I have one of the first versions too with the one storage compartment on one side and the v berth that wraps all the way round on the other side. Might have weighed a little more, who knows.

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Stuman92 said..
Yes red jackets are 2 foot shorter and the draw is only 700mm from memory.
Red witch draw is 900 plus trailer height of say 200 so you need to it down a fair way.

I've started designing and pricing launching mine with an electric winch so I can launch it solo.I know straps work fine but there is no way I'm launch solo with a strap.

You can get a suitable winch for $120 that way there is no risk and no heavy lifting, will still need the drop down front wheel (will be my spare wheel and spare hub)

ill put some pics up later of my design. Yanks seem to do it a lot.

I am with you Stu, would not be very keen solo (at my club it takes 3 to launch an Etchell!) lauching with the strap methode, I will be curious to see your electric winch version.

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Kristo26 said..
I'm still puzzled how my witch has gained over 500lb over everyone else's although she has got an old space sailor trailer and she has got added glass on the inside. Guessing I have one of the first versions too with the one storage compartment on one side and the v berth that wraps all the way round on the other side. Might have weighed a little more, who knows.

Is yours missing a compression post under the mast as well? Might help to explain why mine is set up the way it is.