It is my understanding that I have never needed a boating licence in New South Wales as I have a yacht which is not theoretically capable of more than 10 knots irrespective of the fact that it has a 24 horsepower inboard in it. My tender similarly has an outboard under 6 horsepower.

Queensland on the other hand seems to require a person to have a recreational boating licence if any boat has more than a 4.5 kW engine in it which most yachts would.

The question then becomes what is the situation when you go to the Whitsundays once a year in your boat from NSW? Do you have to get a Queensland licence?

I would think not as you certainly don't have to get a Queensland driver's licence if you live in New South Wales just to drive to Queensland once a year. Nevertheless as we are all aware the law is often an ass.

Anyone know the answer to this?

I would think you need to comply with the laws of the jurisdiction your in. The other consideration would be insurance, in the event of a claim, being un-licensed in a jurisdiction that requires a skipper to be licensed would be an easy out for them.

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julesmoto said..
It is my understanding that I have never needed a boating licence in New South Wales as I have a yacht which is not theoretically capable of more than 10 knots irrespective of the fact that it has a 24 horsepower inboard in it. My tender similarly has an outboard under 6 horsepower.

Queensland on the other hand seems to require a person to have a recreational boating licence if any boat has more than a 4.5 kW engine in it which most yachts would.

The question then becomes what is the situation when you go to the Whitsundays once a year in your boat from NSW? Do you have to get a Queensland licence?

I would think not as you certainly don't have to get a Queensland driver's licence if you live in New South Wales just to drive to Queensland once a year. Nevertheless as we are all aware the law is often an ass.

Anyone know the answer to this?

I tend to agree with you on this, interstate car licence and vehicle registration are accepted for a period of time in every other state and I think it should be mirrored in all forms of transport. This is after all one country, perhaps it is about time we acted as one.

I believe that ANYbody operating ANY vessel ANYwhere should hold a licence/permit/certificate of competency up to a certain standard which includes the rules of the road to ensure the waterways are not populated with idiots.

Just a moment while I put on my flame proof suit.

Same with going to Victoria, take your NSW licence with you.

Not really interested in what SHOULD BE the case at this juncture as to what IS the case. Can't take a New South Wales licence with you when you don't have to have one and therefore don't have one.

Licences are a farce anyway. If you can't tell that from drivers on the road then just look at jet ski operators.

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cisco said..
I believe that ANYbody operating ANY vessel ANYwhere should hold a licence/permit/certificate of competency up to a certain standard which includes the rules of the road to ensure the waterways are not populated with idiots.

Just a moment while I put on my flame proof suit.

So my grandkids need a bit of paper to paddle their kayaks around our dam or creek?

What's going to happen when people can't go out on a SUP in 3' of water off a beach without a course? How will that affect the vital need to get people off their bums and out doing stuff?

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julesmoto said..
Not really interested in what SHOULD BE the case at this juncture as to what IS the case. Can't take a New South Wales licence with you when you don't have to have one and therefore don't have one.

Licences are a farce anyway. If you can't tell that from drivers on the road then just look at jet ski operators.

Call Qld Dept of Tpt 1800 317 389

A licence is NOT required to charter a yacht in the Whitsundays so I presume if you prove you are from NSW no problems in Qld. however make sure you follow the Qld. Regs . For example I sail solo on the GC and no pfd is required to be worn however if I cross the border to Tweed Heads I must wear one.

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Bananabender said..
A licence is NOT required to charter a yacht in the Whitsundays so I presume if you prove you are from NSW no problems in Qld. however make sure you follow the Qld. Regs . For example I sail solo on the GC and no pfd is required to be worn however if I cross the border to Tweed Heads I must wear one.

That makes sense. Just waited for ages on hold to talk to Queensland transport and gave up. I think I'll take my chances but as you say be careful to obey all laws like no fishing in prohibited areas or anchoring in prohibited areas or zooming around on the plane in the tender. Yes pfd's are compulsory in New South Wales If you are by yourself in a tender and of course crossing bars and also on kayaks.

It's my understanding that there's a grace period when travelling interstate ie new south welsh folk can operate as per nsw rules for a defined time. I think you've got 3months to change your rego if you move interstate, so that would be my guess. But if your address is say nsw you would have to come to the attention of the authorities before it was an issue.

I'm in with Cisco some sort of knowledge should be mandatory for all craft operators, even if it's a sticker on a kayak or hire bbq boat for example with the basic rules. I constantly have to second guess what some of them skippers are going to do

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woko said..
It's my understanding that there's a grace period when travelling interstate ie new south welsh folk can operate as per nsw rules for a defined time. I think you've got 3months to change your rego if you move interstate, so that would be my guess. But if your address is say nsw you would have to come to the attention of the authorities before it was an issue.

I'm in with Cisco some sort of knowledge should be mandatory for all craft operators, even if it's a sticker on a kayak or hire bbq boat for example with the basic rules. I constantly have to second guess what some of them skippers are going to do

I think the period is much shorter like two weeks which is ludicrous when you consider annual leave is 4 weeks.

Hey I couldn't agree more about idiots on the water but I've been sailing for over fifty years.

Normally experience counts for something and existing players are grandfathered in when new rules are ushered in.

Anyway as I said before if you look at car licences and jet skiers with licences or for that matter tradies with licences you realise how futile licencing is.

I don't see anything about grace periods or complying with rules of other jurisdictions in www.qld.gov.au/transport/boating/licences/recreational

As I read it you need a license. A NSW one will fit the bill.

I would be reading the fine print on your insurance agreement very closely before hoping for the best.

NSW's licensing requirements are pretty different to other states and are more sensible in my view, but the Queensland RST is possibly easier to get (just turn up and sit an assessment).

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Chris 249 said..
So my grandkids need a bit of paper to paddle their kayaks around our dam or creek?

What's going to happen when people can't go out on a SUP in 3' of water off a beach without a course? How will that affect the vital need to get people off their bums and out doing stuff?

If your grandkid injures sombody elses grandkid with their kayak the insurance company will probably ask what competency your grandkid has to operate said kayak.

That is the way the world is these days so there is no harm in making sure your grandkid knows how to handle whatever water toy he/she is using.

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Woylie said..
I don't see anything about grace periods or complying with rules of other jurisdictions in www.qld.gov.au/transport/boating/licences/recreational

As I read it you need a license. A NSW one will fit the bill.

I would be reading the fine print on your insurance agreement very closely before hoping for the best.

NSW's licensing requirements are pretty different to other states and are more sensible in my view, but the Queensland RST is possibly easier to get (just turn up and sit an assessment).

I don't think it is just turn up and sit the assessment. I rang up and there is a $30 sit the assessment theory part online but then a $300 turn up and do boat handling part as well. In a powerboat of course which is kind of absurd. At least that's what the guy trying to sell me his practical course told me. Naturally if there were exemptions he would be unlikely to tell me. The Queensland government site refers to private assessors as it obviously has been outsourced.

The grace period I am talking about is for people who have moved to Queensland from New South Wales. As the boating licence just goes on your car licence I assume the grace period is the same which is 14 days for a car licence.

Obviously if you are in New South Wales you don't need a licence.

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julesmoto said..

Licences are a farce anyway. If you can't tell that from drivers on the road then just look at jet ski operators.

I'd say that has less to do with the licence and more to do with those individuals being selfish and choosing to be inconsiderate of others on the road or water

Had to check nsw boating license did have & still does have a log book, yes you can pay a trainer or you can have ya mate sign off ....... and answer 50 multiple chose questions, and you don't even have to get them all right

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julesmoto said..

The grace period I am talking about is for people who have moved to Queensland from New South Wales. As the boating licence just goes on your car licence I assume the grace period is the same which is 14 days for a car licence.

Don't confuse the grace period of changing licences over with operating without a licence. Some states do not require a licence and some states do not even have state registration (or at least 1 territory doesn't). Do not waste your time asking training providers, they are only in business to make money. Ask your insurance provider, and ask from the perspective of a bonafide cruiser. It is they who you have to satisfy when things go to sh!t.

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cisco said..

Chris 249 said..
So my grandkids need a bit of paper to paddle their kayaks around our dam or creek?

What's going to happen when people can't go out on a SUP in 3' of water off a beach without a course? How will that affect the vital need to get people off their bums and out doing stuff?

If your grandkid injures sombody elses grandkid with their kayak the insurance company will probably ask what competency your grandkid has to operate said kayak.

That is the way the world is these days so there is no harm in making sure your grandkid knows how to handle whatever water toy he/she is using.

Insurers know that it's not as simple as "ticket=competence, no ticket= liable". There are many more factors involved in liability than that. And there's not much chance of anyone getting injured by a six year old on a farm creek, and I'd be surprised if there was any licensing regime for six year olds in any activity.

Even if there was negligence involved, that's what your personal liability insurance is for, but here's an easy thing for you to do - find some evidence that a significant number of people on SUPs, kayaks, rowboats etc have caused or been involved in accidents and lawsuits that a license would have avoided.

As one example in practical terms, I don't think a single person has been significantly injured on the local reservoir (which is home to clubs with a total of 600 members) since it was opened to leisure use in 1972. So let's say there's been 200 people in charge of craft on that dam each year for 50 years. At a fairly informed guess, let's say each license costs the holder $50 per year and the government $50 per year, because they often don't get all the costs back. That's $1000000 in licensing costs that would have been wasted on this one little dam. Apply that across the entire country and how much money is wasted?

Then we have to ask how bad the problem is nationally. There were 380 people hospitalised for all boating injuries in Australia the year of the last data I can find. So how does that compare to other sports? Well, rollerskaters and bladers copped 10 times as many hospitalisations; football codes put about 10,000 people into hospital. Horseriding and baskeball each ended up putting 2000 people in hospital. If we're worried about safety then people should get a license to walk for recreation, play tennis and squash, cricket or netball, surf and go dancing, because all of them create more serious injuries than boating does.

If safety is the point, how can we demand that a kayaker needs a license when cricketers, surfers, tennis players, netballers and footie players don't?

Logically, if boating needs a license to make it safer, then cricketers, tennis players, surfers, recreational walkers, netballers, horse riders, skaters, fishos, basketballers and many other sportspeople should also have licenses. Is that a world you want to live in?

"Oh dear, Mr Cisco.....you are out for a bushwalk without a license. Here's a fine. See you later, I have to run off down to the local footy ground to make sure the Under 7 Rugby Team have updated their Safe Playing Education Licenses, then we're doing a raid on the beach to make sure all those swimmers and surfers have their bit of paper with them. Can't be too safe. y'know."

By the way, do you know that people in Australia can be done for defamation for remarks on internet forums. Isn't that a danger we should protect against, by ensuring that no one posts until they have done a weekend course on the law? :-). And let's not even consider the number of injuries caused by those silly people who climb up ladders without having done a Working at Heights course.

Oh, and where is your evidence that licensing actually significantly reduces accident situations? How many licensed NSW powerboaters and jet skiers are involved in accidents compared to sailors?

It comes down to whatever the law is in whatever jurisdiction you are in. There is no harm in making sure that people engaging activities on the water have competency in what they are doing. I am sure you didn't just point at the kayak, paddle and the dam or creek and tell your grandkid away you go.

The charter business has found a loop hole

Having been overseas for a few years I had let my license lapse so when I arrived back and cleared customs in Bundaberg. I decided to reinstate my boat licence there.

My previous experience and licences (NSW pleasure boat licence 20 plus years, NSW commercial licence held for 10 years and AMC Master V course counted for nothing. I completed the QLD online assessment and paid for an assessor to turn up in his power boat and sign me off.
I walked to the transport office to pay for my licence and couldn't due to my non residence status. I stepped back from the counter, rang my cousin in Brisvegas to get his OK to use his address. I hopped online to change my bank address to Brisbane then stepped up and paid showing my new address on the bank app.
The licence cost about $120 but is good for life. The plastic photo ID card arrived and I sailed back to Tassie. I contacted the Qld transport office to change my address to Tasmania and they sent me a sticker with my home address in Tas to place over the Bris address.
Tasmania (MAST) has their own boating licence but charges a fee every 3 years to renew. I can argue that my licence issued for life cannot be handed in and MAST actually issues licences to NT addresses since NT doesn't have or require licences and NT boaters are required to hold a licence to go boating when visiting other states.
It's a minefield of maritime inconsistencies between the states which is why AMSA took over commercial licences.
Perhaps we should campaign with the BIA to have AMSA take over pleasure boat licences too?

Logic indicates that if we're going to demand licensing of quite safe activities like kayaking, then we must demand that activities that are more dangerous are also licensed.

Data confirms that if we go on actual injuries and say that sailors and kayakers need licenses, then also anyone who bodysurfs should have a license, because bodysurfers get injured more often than kayakers or sailors. Actually, probably anyone who goes on a passenger ship should have a special license, too, because they often end up injured.

It's a bureaucrat's fantasy! Imagine your aunt having to go to get her Ocean Liner Passenger License, with its special training course on how to hang on to a balcony handrail, how to safely dance to an Abba covers band, and how to ensure she doesn't get injured playing shuffleboard. Of course, since lawn bowls causes about as many hospitalisations as sailing, and many more than canoeing or inflatables, Aunt Ethel would already know about getting certificates, because logically if we are going to demand licensing for canoes then we must also demand licensing for lawn bowlers.

Accidental poisoning is far more dangerous than boating, in terms of number of hospitalisation - does that mean everyone needs an "Australian Eating and Drinking License"?

Three times as many people are hurt using ladders as using watercraft each year. How many of those who are calling for licensing have done a course on ladder safety and paid for a ticket? If they reckon that they can use a ladder safely without a license, why do they reckon other people can't use a SUP without a SUP license?

Far more people are injured each year using tools than using watercraft. How many people here have a Saw License, a Hammer Certificate, and a framed Cert III in Screwdriver Safety? If you don't need a license for something as comparatively risky as using tools, why do you need one for SUPping, kayaking or li-loing?

Plenty of people suffer injuries from water or other hot liquids prepared by other people. If we're going to be logical we should probable all have a Hot Liquid Materials Safe Handling ticket before we demand anyone get a kayak license.

Lots of people hurt while boating are passengers. Quite a few tragedies have been caused by passengers aboard boats. Does that mean that before anyone goes out for a twilight sail or a run on their mates Riviera, they should go and sit for a Commonwealth Government Safe Boat Passenger License? How can you say such a person does not need a license but then say that someone who uses a kayak on a creek needs a license?

By the way, I spent about 20 years investigating accidents, including boating fatalities, and have had a few people I know killed sailing. I'm not ignorant about safety, just trying to say that if we are going to try to use licensing to improve it then passive boating is one of the last places to look at. We should each have licenses for different types of tools, being a car passenger (distracting a driver can kill people), swimming, bodysurfing, surfing, ladder use, cycling, rollerskating, bushwalking, boiling water, etc etc etc.

PS- Yes, Cisco, we did tell our grand-daughter how to use a kayak. We also taught her how to use a scooter and how to use a tricycle. If she needs a license for a kayak on our creek, then surely she needs a license for riding her trike along our veranda. And as for the fact that we taught her how to kick a footy.....well, I'm off to ring up the Backyard Footy Licensing Board to book her in for her theory exam. :-). *

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Chris 249 said..

Logic demands that if we're going to demand licensing of quite safe activities like kayaking, then we must demand that activities that are more dangerous are also licensed.

looking at actual data confirms that if we go on actual injuries and say that sailors and kayakers need licenses, then also anyone who bodysurfs or buys a $20 K-Mart blow-up li lo should have a license to operate it. Actually, probably anyone who goes on a passenger ship should have a special license, too, because they often end up injured.

It's a bureaucrat's fantasy! Imagine your aunt having to go to get her Ocean Liner Passenger License, with its special training course on how to hang on to a balcony handrail, and how to ensure she doesn't get injured playing shuffleboard. Of course, since lawn bowls causes about as many hospitalisations as sailing, and many more than canoeing or inflatables, Aunt Ethel would already know about getting certificates, because logically if we are going to demand licensing for canoes then we must also demand licensing for lawn bowlers.

Accidental poisoning is far more dangerous than boating, in terms of number of hospitalisation - does that mean everyone needs an "Australian Eating and Drinking License"?

Three times as many people are hurt using ladders as using watercraft each year. How many of those who are calling for licensing have done a course on ladder safety and paid for a ticket? If they reckon that they can use a ladder safely without a license, why do they reckon other people can't use a SUP without a SUP license?

Far more people are injured each year using tools than using watercraft. How many people here have a Saw License, a Hammer Certificate, and a framed piece of paper about your Cert III in Screwdriver Safety? If you don't need a license for something as comparatively risky as using tools, why do you need one for SUPping, kayaking or li-loing?

Plenty of people suffer injuries from water or other hot liquids prepared by other people. If we're going to be logical we should probable all have a Hot Liquid Materials Safe Handling ticket before we demand anyone get a kayak license.

By the way, I spent about 20 years investigating accidents, including boating fatalities, and have had a few people I know killed sailing. I'm not ignorant about safety, just trying to say that if we are going to try to use licensing to improve it then passive boating is one of the last places to look at. We should each have licenses for different types of tools, being a car passenger (distracting a driver can kill people), swimming, bodysurfing, surfing, ladder use, cycling, rollerskating, bushwalking, boiling water

Yes, Cisco, we did tell our grand-daughter how to use a kayak. We also taught her how to use a scooter and how to use a tricycle. If she needs a license for a kayak on our creek, then surely she needs a license for riding her trike along our veranda. And as for the fact that we taught her how to kick a footy.....well, I'm off to ring up the Footy Licensing Board to book her in. :-)

I hope your kids wear a pfd . Look what happened to Malcolm when moving his row boat a few metres. Does Malcolm have a boat licence?
Perhaps he does not so was not aware of the rule in NSW. If he had a licence he would have known . I wonder if he knows what the three diamonds and balls displayed on a stationary vessel means but there again
if he was rowing a boat it does not matter .

Ah yes BB there lies the problem, little boats often play in the same place as big boats, big boats don't turn or stop as fast as little boats and big boat drivers know the rules of the waterways, on the other hand some little boaters don't seem to know rules even exist. Even something as simple as a sticker with the basics, stuck on non licence vessels would be bonus, simple things like who has the right of way, I'm happy to give way to a paddle board so long as they don't decide to cross my bow on a momentary whim