MichaelR said..
One thing to remember with all this survey stuff, and initiating new laws. It's not always about saving lives or protecting the public, or even revenue raising. It's all about looking like they're doing something about it, if they change and implement new regulations and laws, they are being seen to be doing "their job" the job we pay them to do.

IMO, stupid should hurt, either by fines or in actual pain. Further, there are a lot of Police and BSOs out there who would more than likely caution you, rather than fine you for being sensible and not wearing a lifejacket when the conditions dictated it wasn't safe to wear one.

Rather than mandating life jacket wearing, how do we feel about having an actual proper practical boat license test. As in, you turn up and have to prove you can maneuver your boat to the satisfaction of the examiner. It must cost you, and it you must also have a log book showing how many hours you practice before going for your test. The larger the boat you intend to drive, the harder it is to get your license. The test would include mooring, anchoring, navigation of busy channels with other traffic and could even cover some kind of emergency. Might sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak, and give those new to boating a healthy respect for those around them.

Chris 249 said..




There were 630 drowning deaths in the UK in 2020. Just seven were in "manually powered boats" which would include many yacht tenders as well as others. Just 14 in powerboats of all types, including yacht tenders. Two died sailing on boats, while three drowned while kiting or windsurfing. So 27 deaths from leisure boating; under one in 20 of all drownings.

For comparison, 89 (yep, 89) somehow drowned while walking or running; such high numbers are not uncommon so I assume it's people getting caught on the vast sandbanks and caught out by the huge tides, or getting drunk and falling into water, which happened near us last time we were in the UK. I think quite a few also fell into canals.

As usual, a couple of people died from drowning while cycling. Again, cycling along towpaths or while drunk were probably involved. Sixteen drowned in cars. Suicides are involved in plenty of the above, of course.

The weird thing is that this is not the first time that cycling as drowned about as many people as sailing. So since per-capita rates are ignored by Maritime, if they rely on simple statistics then maybe cyclists should wear PFDs. In parts of England the authorities are trying to stop people going swimming at beaches and on lakes during heatwaves to stop drownings. Maybe the authorities here should so the same thing, if they are serious about stopping drowning. Naaaaa, it's much easier to attack insignificant factors.......

There were 248 drowning deaths in Oz, which is similar pro-rata to the UK. Drowning rates in Australia have dropped to 1/20th of what they were in the late 1800s, incidentally. The latest RLS drowning research report indicates that the problematic groups are disabled kids and people from country, indigenous and NESB groups, NOT the affluent anglos who tend to go boating.

Yachting and sailing (not including windsurfing) make up only 4.4% of "activity-based watercraft-related injuries" in Australia. Incidentally, the average person who goes boating has less than a chance in a million of drowning while boating each year.

Incidentally, 2% of boating drowning deaths in Oz in the 2020 report occurred at jetties, so this attempt to avoid any drowning deaths must inevitably mean that boaties on jetties and marinas will have to wear PFDs at all times.

When doing the above research I saw yet another photo about wearing PFDs that showed peopld standing up in tinnies while fishing. Funny how the use of tinnys for fishing, which seems to top the boating-drowning deaths, is never seen as the problem; rather it's what people wear in safer boats.

julesmoto said..









No way. Just another pain in the ass incursion on our freedom and wallets. Can't you see that it doesn't work on the road. Keep the government bureaucrats and dictators as far away from sailing as possible. That's one of the main attractions of sailing to get the hell away from this stuff.

woko said..
A far more useful thing for them to do is come up with a permanent solution for the disposal of out of date flares. Can't just hand em to your local BSO anymore. Can't toss em on the bin or overboard what are you supposed to do with em ? Tote an out of date explosive around and see what happens, that is what we do now. Maybe the honourable minister for BS could turn his/ her attention to the issue.

UncleBob said..


You may be right but as we saw with the anchoring rules, the good minister (ms Pavey in this case ) was unreachable for discussions and totally disinterested in discussions with such a small minority.

nswsailor said..

No wonder they don't really want to get involved in collecting out of date flares.

Yara said..






Thanks for that update. If you can, please forward this data to the relevant "authorities".

whiteout said..
I have saved a fellow crew member in Bas Straight who fell off the boat he had to tread water for a while before we got him back, the people who don't wear a life jacket should try to tread water for a long period of time see how you go........ you will drown after a short while

Jethrow said..
It's the second dot point of option B @Woko.

"All vessels in open waters" are affected...

nswsailor said..




I did get to do a face to face with Pavey but she refused to accept my submissions re anchoring and actually hand them straight back to me!

woko said..
Chris, I carefully read the survey as I filled it in and the pfd worn at all times while underway was a theme & a clear distinction between anchored ie attached to the sea bed or the shore and being underway

whiteout said..
I have saved a fellow crew member in Bas Straight who fell off the boat he had to tread water for a while before we got him back, the people who don't wear a life jacket should try to tread water for a long period of time see how you go........ you will drown after a short while

Chris 249 said..










Woko, I can't do the survey again, but I can't recall such a distinction. It's said that Option B is;

"Option B' will require mandatory wearing of lifejackets by adults:on vessels less than 6m in enclosed waters when underway; andon all vessels in open waters in the open area of the vessel when underway; andat all times when boating alone, on alpine waters or between sunset and sunrise (heightened risk circumstances)."

Maritime says "By definition, underway means not at anchor, not made fast to the shore and not aground. When a vessel is drifting, it is underway."

The third part of the proposal says "at all times when boating alone". It doesn't say "when boating alone and underway". It doesn't mention "underway" and doesn't state that if you are not underway, you don't need a PFD.

The fact that there's a comma between "boating alone, on Alpine waters....." seems to be significant. It's not saying "when boating alone on Alpine waters." It's saying "when boating alone" and also "when boating on Alpine waters".

Vampire Weekend are aware of the importance of commas, but I'm not so sure about Maritime NSW.

MichaelR said..
Further, there are a lot of Police and BSOs out there who would more than likely caution you, rather than fine you for being sensible and not wearing a lifejacket when the conditions dictated it wasn't safe to wear one.

Sydney88 said..




There are still the good old eggs but unfortunately the days of a good attitude and being friendly towards maritime & water police resulting in the same back appear to be over which is extremely sad in my view. I'm not sure if anyone has had an encounter with the next generation of water police but many appear to be up there with the worst of the highway patrol, not interested in a chat, arrogant and itching to issue a fine.