Some advice on Mottle 33 please. What are they like on the open ocean? How would they compare with a Martzcraft 35?

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Frank101 said..
Some advice on Mottle 33 please. What are they like on the open ocean? How would they compare with a Martzcraft 35?

I've had my mottle 33 for 6 years and love it.
You will be scared before the boat won't handle it.

Thanks twodogs

A very good yacht. Be aware that there are two versions, a high side and low side. The early ones had a low freeboard and were quite cramped getting to the aft cabin. The high sided ones are much better.
I had an S&S34 for 15 years. A Mottle would have stayed with me as long.

Assume SV Wavesong would be well placed to answer - she set up the owners group hope it has expanded.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Mottle-33-Owners-Group

Obviously the Martzcraft 35 having 2 foot more overall length and presumably 2 foot more waterline length - or thereabouts - will be a tad more solid at sea but I would rate Joe Adams (Mottle 33) as a better designer than Bruce Roberts (Martzcraft 35).

An example of the Martzcraft 35 here;

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/martzcraft-35-famous-boat-owned-by-mark-of-bundaberg-marina/240196

Your decision would have to be based on build quality also - as far as I recall some of the M33 were sold as hull / keel / rudder / deck kits for owner fitouts of uncertain result wheres I don't think Martzcraft ever go into that.

Hi Frank 101

I've owned, sailed and lived aboard my high-sided Mottle 33 since January 2019 and remain totally smitten.

They are big little boats with generous accommodations for the era in which they were built.

Integral keel, perform well, dead easy to sail solo.... what's not to like??!! I've only sailed mine in winds up to 30knots, however, with her previous owner, she did experience a knockdown. Apparently she just lay there for a bit then came back up without much drama at all.

'Timana' took her owners successfully around the world. Wrong-way circumnavigator Bill Hatfield's first attempt was in a Mottle. After her humble beginnings as a charter boat in the Whitsundays, 'Cryptic' went on to do a few trips to Lord Howe and New Cal.

Such is my love affair with the Mottle 33, I kicked off an Owner's and Fans Facebook group about 6 weeks ago. Because of member's enthusiasm, it already contains a plethora of information, photos, first-hand experiences, links to articles and videos. At the moment, there's a couple of people considering buying Mottles and there is valuable information being shared. Come and take a look

www.facebook.com/groups/267761911201262/?ref=share

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MorningBird said..
A very good yacht. Be aware that there are two versions, a high side and low side. The early ones had a low freeboard and were quite cramped getting to the aft cabin. The high sided ones are much better.
I had an S&S34 for 15 years. A Mottle would have stayed with me as long.

Good to see you back

As stated above there are two versions which is not quite correct.

The "Mottle 33" was built up until about 1983 at which time the moulds and rights to the Joe Adams design were sold to "Naut Yachts".
Prior to entering production of the "Naut 33" which became the back bone of the "Whitsunday Yachting World" bare boat charter fleet they had Joe Adams check the moulds and review the specs.

The first thing Joe said was that "The keel is in the wrong position."

In the production of the "Naut 33" that was corrected and several other improvements to design and construction were made. We chartered one in 1986 for 7 days and it was a delight to sail. Off the wind they go like a train and on the wind they point well and will punch into a chop quite well but the centre cockpit will be quite wet.

If I was contemplating the purchase of an "Adams 33" it would only be the "Naut 33" version that I would look at.

I hope this helps.

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SV Wavesong said..
'Timana' took her owners successfully around the world. Wrong-way circumnavigator Bill Hatfield's first attempt was in a Mottle. After her humble beginnings as a charter boat in the Whitsundays, 'Cryptic' went on to do a few trips to Lord Howe and New Cal.

"Cryptic" was the yacht we chartered way back in the 80s. We got that drunk and stoned on her that we called her "The Crippled Tick".
The fleet boats had similar themed names. Another was called "Svap".

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cisco said..

SV Wavesong said..
'Timana' took her owners successfully around the world. Wrong-way circumnavigator Bill Hatfield's first attempt was in a Mottle. After her humble beginnings as a charter boat in the Whitsundays, 'Cryptic' went on to do a few trips to Lord Howe and New Cal.

"Cryptic" was the yacht we chartered way back in the 80s. We got that drunk and stoned on her that we called her "The Crippled Tick".
The fleet boats had similar themed names. Another was called "Svap".

Hi Cisco

I remember your post about Cryptic. Evoked funny but very strange images in my head .

Was so pleased to meet her owner at The Sandhills at Moreton last year. To quote him loosely, "I've owned this boat for all these years but still can't find any reason to change (boats)".

Gotta love that

The Mottle sails very well I have an Adams 35 and out sail the Marz35 in all points of sail.

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Bundeenabuoy said..

MorningBird said..
A very good yacht. Be aware that there are two versions, a high side and low side. The early ones had a low freeboard and were quite cramped getting to the aft cabin. The high sided ones are much better.
I had an S&S34 for 15 years. A Mottle would have stayed with me as long.

Good to see you back

The trolls seem to have disappeared.

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whiteout said..
The Mottle sails very well I have an Adams 35 which is a weapon and out sail the Marz35 in all points of sail.

There!! Fixed it for Ya.

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SV Wavesong said..
Hi Cisco
I remember your post about Cryptic. Evoked funny but very strange images in my head .

Hi Wavesong. This is a pic of the inside cover of the "100 Magic Miles' book that they gave us upon which I drew our tour. I think we got our 100 in.
We only bumped the keel twice. Once in the middle of the night on the bommie in the bay at Shaw Is and when my first mate tried to take a short cut across Langford Reef.

Hi all - I have had my Mottle33 "Circe" for 2 years and have done a few coastal trips in her. She is safe and handles well. I race her with the Port of Yamba Yacht Club on the Clarence River, NSW and she performs well there too. Great boat! Great to have a forum and Facebook group - well done!

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cisco said..
As stated above there are two versions which is not quite correct.

The "Mottle 33" was built up until about 1983 at which time the moulds and rights to the Joe Adams design were sold to "Naut Yachts".
Prior to entering production of the "Naut 33" which became the back bone of the "Whitsunday Yachting World" bare boat charter fleet they had Joe Adams check the moulds and review the specs.

The first thing Joe said was that "The keel is in the wrong position."

In the production of the "Naut 33" that was corrected and several other improvements to design and construction were made. We chartered one in 1986 for 7 days and it was a delight to sail. Off the wind they go like a train and on the wind they point well and will punch into a chop quite well but the centre cockpit will be quite wet.

If I was contemplating the purchase of an "Adams 33" it would only be the "Naut 33" version that I would look at.

I hope this helps.

G'day Cisco - so Joe Adams reckoned that the keel was in the "wrong position" - what correction was made when Naut Yachts took over production?

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Circe said..

cisco said..
As stated above there are two versions which is not quite correct.

The "Mottle 33" was built up until about 1983 at which time the moulds and rights to the Joe Adams design were sold to "Naut Yachts".
Prior to entering production of the "Naut 33" which became the back bone of the "Whitsunday Yachting World" bare boat charter fleet they had Joe Adams check the moulds and review the specs.

The first thing Joe said was that "The keel is in the wrong position."

In the production of the "Naut 33" that was corrected and several other improvements to design and construction were made. We chartered one in 1986 for 7 days and it was a delight to sail. Off the wind they go like a train and on the wind they point well and will punch into a chop quite well but the centre cockpit will be quite wet.

If I was contemplating the purchase of an "Adams 33" it would only be the "Naut 33" version that I would look at.

I hope this helps.

G'day Cisco - so Joe Adams reckoned that the keel was in the "wrong position" - what correction was made when Naut Yachts took over production?

Hi Circe

If you're not yet a member of the Facebook Mottle 33 Owners and Fans group, come and join us .

I've been speaking with Graham Radford this week about the keel placement. I planned on waiting until he had answered a few more queries to post on the FB page, however, seeing you asked specifically, here's what he had to say...

"Tracey,
This is stretching the memory a bit . There may have been some discussion about whether a previous builder had installed the ballast "blocks" inside the moulded keel correctly but I am pretty sure - almost positive - there was no change in the fwd & aft position of the keel! Difficult to remember but I think that the cast lead blocks had grown slightly thicker and therefore didn't fit as low in the keel . something like that"

Ah - interesting to hear about these issues. As far as I can gather my boat is a 1984 model so possibly a Naut.... but possibly not. She was originally bought as a hull and deck package and fitted out internally by family members of Kaye Cottee - there's a bit of pedigree! She has some nice timber inside. It is really interesting to see the pics of internal layouts on other Mottles and also the deckhouse modifications which would be great for cruising.

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Wavesong said..
Hi Frank 101

I've owned, sailed and lived aboard my high-sided Mottle 33 since January 2019 and remain totally smitten.

They are big little boats with generous accommodations for the era in which they were built.

Integral keel, perform well, dead easy to sail solo.... what's not to like??!! I've only sailed mine in winds up to 30knots, however, with her previous owner, she did experience a knockdown. Apparently she just lay there for a bit then came back up without much drama at all.

'Timana' took her owners successfully around the world. Wrong-way circumnavigator Bill Hatfield's first attempt was in a Mottle. After her humble beginnings as a charter boat in the Whitsundays, 'Cryptic' went on to do a few trips to Lord Howe and New Cal.

Such is my love affair with the Mottle 33, I kicked off an Owner's and Fans Facebook group about 6 weeks ago. Because of member's enthusiasm, it already contains a plethora of information, photos, first-hand experiences, links to articles and videos. At the moment, there's a couple of people considering buying Mottles and there is valuable information being shared. Come and take a look

www.facebook.com/groups/267761911201262/?ref=share

I have seen some references to Hatfields original westerly circumnavigation attempt yacht being a Mottle33 but photographs don't seem to support that contention. The yacht is clearly aft cockpit and I'm not aware that Mottle ever built such a yacht. It may of course be an Adams design and the hull design may even be similar to a Mottle but I would be interested if anyone knew what type of yacht it really was?

There was an aft-cabin version of the Mottle/Naut. I'm not sure how many were sold.

The early Mottle 33s (including Follow Mee, Thermopylae and Windstormer) had a far better racing record than the later ones so any keel issues can't have been too serious. With respect, I'd be curious to know the source and veracity of the information. I think that Joe was sailing at MHYC, which had about three of the early Mottle 33s racing in Div 1, when George was building them so he probably would have been familiar with the boats. It's possible that the keel was shifted to allow for other alterations that Naut made.

My Late father was steering Georges own Follow Mee when he did a 'Chinese' and dropped the pole in the water breaking the mast. Then claimed it was a Sunfish.

Hi guys:

Does anyone know which kind of windvane self steering did Hatfields use in his Mottle 33?. Also i would like to know if he installed it centered of offcentered.

Thanks.

Yes it's hard to find info on what Hatfield did to both his so-called Mottle 33 and also his North Shore 38 which I am more interested in because I have the latter. I know he shortened the rig in his final successful attempt in the 38 but there is a YouTube video of an interview with him supposedly on his 38 where he and the interviewer are sitting on the starboard cabin setee with an enclosed area on the right -aft of the setee which looks like a toilet enclosure just inside the companionway a la Northshore 33( but opposite side) rather than the chart table which originally would have been there. Clearly the boat is not standard despite what is said in other interviews that he has given.

Hi All. Came upon this 'Mottle 33' thread by chance, really interesting! Some have mentioned the Mottle 33 'Cryptic', that's me. Have owned her now for over 30 years and, as Wavesong said, I've no reason to change. At times I've thought 'bigger is better' but the bi-annual slip corrects my thinking!
Cryptic was built by Naut Yachts and launched new in 1980 as a Whitsunday charter yacht. My understanding is that when Naut Yachts acquired the moulds from George Mottle they had the charter market in mind and so took the fit-out up a notch: headliner, transom liner, chain plate covers, etc. Those built to survey for the charter fleets were well built. For example I had seen Naut 33's with a transom liner. Mine had none. While back-tracking proof of ownership for Australian Registration purposes I asked John Simpson, the former Director of Naut Yachts, 'why?', and he replied 'because the transom layup was too thick!' This explains why there is no simple answer to Frank101's original question: 'What are they like on the open ocean' (i.e. as a bluewater boat)? The boat was available from hull and deck kits through to survey standard so it all depends on who put it together. I have no hesitation heading offshore. Based in Brisbane we have sailed as far north as Lizard Island, South to Coffs Harbour and offshore to New Caledonia and to Lord Howe (hove-to in 30+knots and huge seas) confidently and with no issues. 10 years ago I gave her a decent refurb - hull, deck and mast professionally sprayed, new hatches, toe-rail, windows etc. Overall she's looks pretty sharp for her age. I kid you not, shortly after the refurb a yachtbroker walking past stopped to look, thinking it was a new boat. When I said it was over 30 yrs old, he took a bunch of photos to send to his boss!
Wavesong mentioned that the Mottle 33 Timana completed a circumnavigation. I met the owners back in the 80's while they were lounging on their Mottle at the marina in the Whitsundays. As Mottle owners, we bonded for life. Before setting off they extended the chain plate knees (elbows?) down past the second stringer, the way the Naut-built boats were done. This was to reduce flex. Same hull and deck, different builder. As an aside, after their circumnavigation I asked Geoff 'if you were to do it again, would you choose the same sized boat?' He said 'Smaller'. His wife said 'Bigger'. Since then they bought and sailed a Jeanneau 37 from California to Brisbane and a few months ago bought a Beneteau Oceanis 42. You can tell who wears the pants in the family.
The 'Mottle 33' 'Catherine Anne' (as mentioned above by julesmoto) featured in Bill Hatfield's attempt to be the first person to sail westabout in an under 40ft boat. A couple years ago I asked Bill if it was a Mottle and he said it was like a Mottle hull but with a different deck. The hull looks to have less sheer than the standard Mottle so perhaps it was cut down to match the deck. Just speculating.
Bill is an amazing, no-frills, concentrated-saltwater-in-the-veins kind of guy. 'Catherine Anne' was named after his daughter who was born while sailing the South Pacific on their earlier small (28ft?) yacht. Unfortunately Catherine Anne (the boat) was knocked down while rounding Cape Horn and suffered too much damage to continue.
Julesmoto: He limped back to the Falklands where he sold the boat (its still there) and flew back to Brisbane. His understated blogs are riveting. Twice he's been washed overboard only to get a foot tangled in ropes by which he pulled himself backup. You can read his blog of the event and all his blogs at: L'Eau Commotion Westabout (sailblogs.com). His current Northshore 38 hasn't left the dock since breaking the Westabout under 40ft record 2 years ago (at 81yrs!).




Mottle 33 'Cryptic'

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cpalm said..
Hi All. Came upon this 'Mottle 33' thread by chance, really interesting! Some have mentioned the Mottle 33 'Cryptic', that's me. Have owned her now for over 30 years and, as Wavesong said, I've no reason to change. At times I've thought 'bigger is better' but the bi-annual slip corrects my thinking!
Cryptic was built by Naut Yachts and launched new in 1980 as a Whitsunday charter yacht. My understanding is that when Naut Yachts acquired the moulds from George Mottle they had the charter market in mind and so took the fit-out up a notch: headliner, transom liner, chain plate covers, etc. Those built to survey for the charter fleets were well built. For example I had seen Naut 33's with a transom liner. Mine had none. While back-tracking proof of ownership for Australian Registration purposes I asked John Simpson, the former Director of Naut Yachts, 'why?', and he replied 'because the transom layup was too thick!' This explains why there is no simple answer to Frank101's original question: 'What are they like on the open ocean' (i.e. as a bluewater boat)? The boat was available from hull and deck kits through to survey standard so it all depends on who put it together. I have no hesitation heading offshore. Based in Brisbane we have sailed as far north as Lizard Island, South to Coffs Harbour and offshore to New Caledonia and to Lord Howe (hove-to in 30+knots and huge seas) confidently and with no issues. 10 years ago I gave her a decent refurb - hull, deck and mast professionally sprayed, new hatches, toe-rail, windows etc. Overall she's looks pretty sharp for her age. I kid you not, shortly after the refurb a yachtbroker walking past stopped to look, thinking it was a new boat. When I said it was over 30 yrs old, he took a bunch of photos to send to his boss!
Wavesong mentioned that the Mottle 33 Timana completed a circumnavigation. I met the owners back in the 80's while they were lounging on their Mottle at the marina in the Whitsundays. As Mottle owners, we bonded for life. Before setting off they extended the chain plate knees (elbows?) down past the second stringer, the way the Naut-built boats were done. This was to reduce flex. Same hull and deck, different builder. As an aside, after their circumnavigation I asked Geoff 'if you were to do it again, would you choose the same sized boat?' He said 'Smaller'. His wife said 'Bigger'. Since then they bought and sailed a Jeanneau 37 from California to Brisbane and a few months ago bought a Beneteau Oceanis 42. You can tell who wears the pants in the family.
The 'Mottle 33' 'Catherine Anne' (as mentioned above by julesmoto) featured in Bill Hatfield's attempt to be the first person to sail westabout in an under 40ft boat. A couple years ago I asked Bill if it was a Mottle and he said it was like a Mottle hull but with a different deck. The hull looks to have less sheer than the standard Mottle so perhaps it was cut down to match the deck. Just speculating.
Bill is an amazing, no-frills, concentrated-saltwater-in-the-veins kind of guy. 'Catherine Anne' was named after his daughter who was born while sailing the South Pacific on their earlier small (28ft?) yacht. Unfortunately Catherine Anne (the boat) was knocked down while rounding Cape Horn and suffered too much damage to continue.
Julesmoto: He limped back to the Falklands where he sold the boat (its still there) and flew back to Brisbane. His understated blogs are riveting. Twice he's been washed overboard only to get a foot tangled in ropes by which he pulled himself backup. You can read his blog of the event and all his blogs at: L'Eau Commotion Westabout (sailblogs.com). His current Northshore 38 hasn't left the dock since breaking the Westabout under 40ft record 2 years ago (at 81yrs!).




Mottle 33 'Cryptic'

Interesting contribution thank you. Bill Hatfields original boat in which he and his partner and baby daughter (born mid trip) ventured all over the Pacific - and all over the world including around the horn - was a Triton 24! Amazing man.

A little sad to hear that his North Shore 38 has not left the dock for 2 years but hey at 83 with his life experiences maybe sailing around protected Waters doesn't do it for him. Maybe he is piloting his glider or rowing which are two of his other hobbies.

Hi all.
does anyone know anything about this boat please (I'm looking to purchase it). I believe it's an Adam's 10/mottle 33?

having read other posts, and talked to vendor, I presume to was purchased as hull and custom fitted out, with rear cockpit.

port holes in hull make me wonder about that though. Original hulls don't seem to have them.

any info appreciated.

thanks in advance

(agh. Not allowed to post photo. New member. Will try latter)

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tamborineman said..

Hi all.
does anyone know anything about this boat please (I'm looking to purchase it). I believe it's an Adam's 10/mottle 33?

having read other posts, and talked to vendor, I presume to was purchased as hull and custom fitted out, with rear cockpit.

port holes in hull make me wonder about that though. Original hulls don't seem to have them.

any info appreciated.

thanks in advance

(agh. Not allowed to post photo. New member. Will try latter)

An Adams 10 is an entirely different boat to a Mottle 33. Put up a few more comments so you can post photos or just link to the ad.

www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ramsgate/sail-boats/adams-10-sailing-boat-/1305484605?utm_source=com.google.android.keep&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=android_VIPGallery

Will the real Adams 10 please come forward!

www.sail-world.com/news/213950/Adams-10-Nationals-at-Lake-Macquarie-preview

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Woohoo said..
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ramsgate/sail-boats/adams-10-sailing-boat-/1305484605?utm_source=com.google.android.keep&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=android_VIPGallery

Don't know anything about the boat except that it was for sale 2 years ago when I was looking so is either back on the market or never sold. It certainly is neither a Mottle 33 nor what is normally understood to be an Adam's 10.

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julesmoto said..



Don't know anything about the boat except that it was for sale 2 years ago when I was looking so is either back on the market or never sold. It certainly is neither a Mottle 33 nor what is normally understood to be an Adam's 10.

I tend not to look at ads with the word yacht miss spelt.