Couple of points:

1. You CAN take your MMSI with you, just take your radio with you! Then let them know the new details and they will update their database and send you a confirmation email for your records. If you can't take the radio with you then see point 2;

2. Some models of radio allow more than 1 change of MMSI. Mine allows 2 updates before it has to go for factory reset. This could be used to update the new owners MMSI thereby allowing you to key yours into your new vessel.

I think the license process is not very painful. No need to do a whole day course just order the handbook and read it on your lunchbreak or whenever. Total cost can be as low as $42 including exam. I agree they could make it easier like doing it online but there's much worse things in boating than the SROCP


Cheers

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FelixdeCat said..

Couple of points:

1. You CAN take your MMSI with you, just take your radio with you! Then let them know the new details and they will update their database and send you a confirmation email for your records. If you can't take the radio with you then see point 2;

2. Some models of radio allow more than 1 change of MMSI. Mine allows 2 updates before it has to go for factory reset. This could be used to update the new owners MMSI thereby allowing you to key yours into your new vessel.

I think the license process is not very painful. No need to do a whole day course just order the handbook and read it on your lunchbreak or whenever. Total cost can be as low as $42 including exam. I agree they could make it easier like doing it online but there's much worse things in boating than the SROCP


Cheers

I don' know who you got to do your exam.for $42 but mine was closer to $100.
Exam.was aboit$42 + the mandatory donation to marine rescue.
The mmsi is allocated to.the boat not the person.

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frant said..

Trek said..

sirgallivant said..
It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

Im with you Sir G. My EPIRB has an MMSI number thats good enough for me. I dont need another one for a VHF.

Trying to make people get VHF licences for safety equipment is one of the governments usual badly thought out money grabbing ideas. Why on earth would the government make it hard for people to provide safety for themselves at sea. Good grief.

I think that the "confusion" illustrated by these two posts is sound enough reason to continue for MRCOP education and licensing.
eg An EPIRB has a unique HEX no. not an MMSI and a unique MMSI is issued for a ship station DSC radio and AIS different to a hand held DSC radio. THe MMSI numbers contain a number of unique identifiers including country codes and issue of these is subject to international protocols (not just Australian). Surely to simply educate oneself on radio operating procedure and demonstrate this by obtaining a licence is a fairly simple safety step.

Spot on!

Select to expand quote

scruzin said..

frant said..

Trek said..

sirgallivant said..
It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

Im with you Sir G. My EPIRB has an MMSI number thats good enough for me. I dont need another one for a VHF.

Trying to make people get VHF licences for safety equipment is one of the governments usual badly thought out money grabbing ideas. Why on earth would the government make it hard for people to provide safety for themselves at sea. Good grief.

I think that the "confusion" illustrated by these two posts is sound enough reason to continue for MRCOP education and licensing.
eg An EPIRB has a unique HEX no. not an MMSI and a unique MMSI is issued for a ship station DSC radio and AIS different to a hand held DSC radio. THe MMSI numbers contain a number of unique identifiers including country codes and issue of these is subject to international protocols (not just Australian). Surely to simply educate oneself on radio operating procedure and demonstrate this by obtaining a licence is a fairly simple safety step.

Spot on!

Yep, agree.

Select to expand quote

shaggybaxter said..

scruzin said..

frant said..

Trek said..

sirgallivant said..
It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

Im with you Sir G. My EPIRB has an MMSI number thats good enough for me. I dont need another one for a VHF.

Trying to make people get VHF licences for safety equipment is one of the governments usual badly thought out money grabbing ideas. Why on earth would the government make it hard for people to provide safety for themselves at sea. Good grief.

I think that the "confusion" illustrated by these two posts is sound enough reason to continue for MRCOP education and licensing.
eg An EPIRB has a unique HEX no. not an MMSI and a unique MMSI is issued for a ship station DSC radio and AIS different to a hand held DSC radio. THe MMSI numbers contain a number of unique identifiers including country codes and issue of these is subject to international protocols (not just Australian). Surely to simply educate oneself on radio operating procedure and demonstrate this by obtaining a licence is a fairly simple safety step.

Spot on!

Yep, agree.

Agreed. Access to the radio spectrum is a privilege not a right.

Just to add o this, In support of ACMA, my experience is that they are the most friendly easy to deal with government body I could imagine. Their systems are fast and easy to use. The phones are always answered quickly with pleasant folk that have time to chat to non-commercial users. My MMSI number arrived the day I applied on line for it.

Compared to all the other red tape and complexity we need to put up with in this modern world, obtaining a radio licence and applying for a number is a pretty easy thing to do.

A

Hi Two Dogs,
I did mine on line with Navorone, with the exam at Cronulla Library.
You get plenty of practice and cannot fail.
You need the licence to get the MMI.
Call or email me if you want more info.
Regards

Select to expand quote

Bundeenaboy said..
Hi Two Dogs,
I did mine on line with Navorone, with the exam at Cronulla Library.
You get plenty of practice and cannot fail.
You need the licence to get the MMI.
Call or email me if you want more info.
Regards

Thanks
I have already got mine did the test with marine rescue port hacking.

Reading through old threads.

Looking at AIS transceivers.

Need MMSI.
Mojo has a VHF with DSC (that I cant see till I get home).
There's 2 VHF on the boat so I'm guessing the ICOM was purchased for this feature. (am checking with PO).

Question...

If the MMSI is allocated to the craft and it gets sold and the radio is once only MMSI program, is it a matter that contact details attached to the MMSI need to be changed at the department which hold MMSI details? I'm happy to get the VHF/HF licence for the MMSI but do I even need the MMSI? Will getting it put the VHF details at odds with the AIS? Do I purchase the AIS (that may need to be programmed prior to distribution) and use the POs MMSI and be able to use the AIS without the licence with intent to get it later?

Does this all make sense?

Shea

Hi all

On the subject of the need to hold a radio operators licence to operate a vhf radio, Tas Maritime Radio tasmaritime.com.au/ who monitor and coordinate vhf and hf marine radio in Tasmania have information nights if you want to become a member and be allocated a call sign from them

One of the things that they say during the presentation that i went to a few years ago is that they believe that the need to do the full course to hold a radio operators licence to operate a vhf is overkill and they were lobbying the relevant government authority to try and make the presentation the give all that is needed to receive a vhf radio operators licence in Tasmania

They said that to operate a hf was a different matter though

It would be interesting to know the percentage of boaters with radio's that actually hold a radio operators licence

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..
Hi all

On the subject of the need to hold a radio operators licence to operate a vhf radio, Tas Maritime Radio tasmaritime.com.au/ who monitor and coordinate vhf and hf marine radio in Tasmania have information nights if you want to become a member and be allocated a call sign from them

One of the things that they say during the presentation that i went to a few years ago is that they believe that the need to do the full course to hold a radio operators licence to operate a vhf is overkill and they were lobbying the relevant government authority to try and make the presentation the give all that is needed to receive a vhf radio operators licence in Tasmania

They said that to operate a hf was a different matter though

It would be interesting to know the percentage of boaters with radio's that actually hold a radio operators licence

Regards Don

About 29% according to this report.

www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Select to expand quote

FreeRadical said..

About 29% according to this report.

https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Im not in the least surprised, especially if the figures come directly from VHF units sold (if its regulated at all) versus licences issued. For example my Mustang has both 27 mHz and a VHF. I never used the VHF therefore never needed a licence. You do not need the license to have a VHF installed, just to use.

Select to expand quote

SemusMcgilicoty said..
Reading through old threads.

Looking at AIS transceivers.

Need MMSI.
Mojo has a VHF with DSC (that I cant see till I get home).
There's 2 VHF on the boat so I'm guessing the ICOM was purchased for this feature. (am checking with PO).

Question...

If the MMSI is allocated to the craft and it gets sold and the radio is once only MMSI program, is it a matter that contact details attached to the MMSI need to be changed at the department which hold MMSI details? I'm happy to get the VHF/HF licence for the MMSI but do I even need the MMSI? Will getting it put the VHF details at odds with the AIS? Do I purchase the AIS (that may need to be programmed prior to distribution) and use the POs MMSI and be able to use the AIS without the licence with intent to get it later?

Does this all make sense?

Shea

Ok, I'll have a crack at this........

When you sell a boat that has equipment installed that has a MMSI programmed into it, it is as simple as making the necessary changes with AMSA. I did mine over the phone in less than 10 mins and most of that time was just making sure the correct vessels details were being changed.

You don't need an MMSI, though without it the DSC function on your VHF/HF (if it has one, not all do) will not be functional. I will be critical here though and suggest that 90% or more of people would not know the full function of DSC or its main purpose anyway. You DO need an MMSI for AIS as this is the individual/discrete code that says who and where you are.

As the MMSI is allocated to the vessel (and not to the person or even radio set), all equipment capable of being programmed with a MMSI on that vessel should have the SAME number programmed. In other words, your VHF should not "be at odds" with your AIS. Your AIS will not be "programmed prior to distribution", but may need to be programmed prior to (retail) sale. Whom you purchase the AIS off may programme it for you (it is not a legal requirement here in Aust, but it is in some other countries). I bought mine at Whitworths and programmed my MMSI myself (very easy but IIRC I only had one shot otherwise it had to be factory reset).

You should be using the PO MMSI because it is now yours (allocated to the vessel remember). This is the stupid thing and without going to the beginning of this thread, it's what I believe was the basis of this question.

I hope this helped...

Ps. I personally have never found a more helpful and cheery government department then AMSA. At least not in the (sub) departments that deal with EPIRBS, MMSI and Australian Ships Registrations. As for the actual VHF licence, that is a different department -ACMA. I found them equally helpful but I have only ever dealt with them the once. Give both a call and ask the questions...

Select to expand quote

Toph said..

SemusMcgilicoty said..
Reading through old threads.

Looking at AIS transceivers.

Need MMSI.
Mojo has a VHF with DSC (that I cant see till I get home).
There's 2 VHF on the boat so I'm guessing the ICOM was purchased for this feature. (am checking with PO).

Question...

If the MMSI is allocated to the craft and it gets sold and the radio is once only MMSI program, is it a matter that contact details attached to the MMSI need to be changed at the department which hold MMSI details? I'm happy to get the VHF/HF licence for the MMSI but do I even need the MMSI? Will getting it put the VHF details at odds with the AIS? Do I purchase the AIS (that may need to be programmed prior to distribution) and use the POs MMSI and be able to use the AIS without the licence with intent to get it later?

Does this all make sense?

Shea

Ok, I'll have a crack at this........

When you sell a boat that has equipment installed that has a MMSI programmed into it, it is as simple as making the necessary changes with AMSA. I did mine over the phone in less than 10 mins and most of that time was just making sure the correct vessels details were being changed.

You don't need an MMSI, though without it the DSC function on your VHF/HF (if it has one, not all do) will not be functional. I will be critical here though and suggest that 90% or more of people would not know the full function of DSC or its main purpose anyway. You DO need an MMSI for AIS as this is the individual/discrete code that says who and where you are.

As the MMSI is allocated to the vessel (and not to the person or even radio set), all equipment capable of being programmed with a MMSI on that vessel should have the SAME number programmed. In other words, your VHF should not "be at odds" with your AIS. Your AIS will not be "programmed prior to distribution", but may need to be programmed prior to (retail) sale. Whom you purchase the AIS off may programme it for you (it is not a legal requirement here in Aust, but it is in some other countries). I bought mine at Whitworths and programmed my MMSI myself (very easy but IIRC I only had one shot otherwise it had to be factory reset).

You should be using the PO MMSI because it is now yours (allocated to the vessel remember). This is the stupid thing and without going to the beginning of this thread, it's what I believe was the basis of this question.

I hope this helped...

Ps. I personally have never found a more helpful and cheery government department then AMSA. At least not in the (sub) departments that deal with EPIRBS, MMSI and Australian Ships Registrations. As for the actual VHF licence, that is a different department -ACMA. I found them equally helpful but I have only ever dealt with them the once. Give both a call and ask the questions...

Cool Troph,

So far that's what I was envisaging.
I'm OS at work at the mo doing my usual research and spending spree for when I get home. Was hoping to have an AIS waiting for me when I get home and to book in for LROCP exam.

****So the question remains - seeing as I'm not getting a new MMSI, do I need to have the VHF license for them to change the contact details etc?*** nope...strike that thought...... Just spoke to the PO and there was no MMSI allocated to the DSC. - they did mainly off shore and used the HF.

All answered now mate.

Need to wait till I get home.

Thanks for your help.

Shea

All good mate.

For what it's worth though, I was not asked if I had a VHF license (and nor did I have one at the time -long story, my dad and I share the same name. I have an aviation issued license and when I rang ACMA once to enquire if I need a maritime issued license I was told I already had one. My father unbeknownst to me had obtained his own VHF license sometime before hand).

Select to expand quote

Toph said..

FreeRadical said..

About 29% according to this report.

https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Im not in the least surprised, especially if the figures come directly from VHF units sold (if its regulated at all) versus licences issued. For example my Mustang has both 27 mHz and a VHF. I never used the VHF therefore never needed a licence. You do not need the license to have a VHF installed, just to use.

It is perfectly legal for an unlicensed person to use a VHF in an emergency. The problem is that such a person's lack of understanding of call protocols may add confusion and delay to the process. If you have been through the course, and if you use your radio reasonably regularly, even if just for radio checks, you are more likely to make your distress call in an efficient manner. Remember - this will be done when the poo is hitting the fan big-time and your normal unflappable urbanity may well give way to a level of hysteria! Your practised skills will make a responder's task easier, and hence speed up any required response .

Cheers, Graeme

Select to expand quote

wongaga said..

Toph said..

FreeRadical said..

About 29% according to this report.

https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Im not in the least surprised, especially if the figures come directly from VHF units sold (if its regulated at all) versus licences issued. For example my Mustang has both 27 mHz and a VHF. I never used the VHF therefore never needed a licence. You do not need the license to have a VHF installed, just to use.

It is perfectly legal for an unlicensed person to use a VHF in an emergency. The problem is that such a person's lack of understanding of call protocols may add confusion and delay to the process. If you have been through the course, and if you use your radio reasonably regularly, even if just for radio checks, you are more likely to make your distress call in an efficient manner. Remember - this will be done when the poo is hitting the fan big-time and your normal unflappable urbanity may well give way to a level of hysteria! Your practised skills will make a responder's task easier, and hence speed up any required response .

Cheers, Graeme

I think the problem is the unnecessary complexity in obtaining a few basic skills to operate a simple piece of equipment. The MROCP handbook is over 100 pages and contains a whole lot of crap about radio wave propagation, battery properties and other stuff the average boatie doesn't need to know or care about. After "studying" the book, you then have to go and sit an exam somewhere. It's absolutely ludicrous and a detriment to safety. The fact that there are courses you can do to get the licence, says it all! Way too complex.

Select to expand quote

FreeRadical said..

wongaga said..

Toph said..

FreeRadical said..

About 29% according to this report.

https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Im not in the least surprised, especially if the figures come directly from VHF units sold (if its regulated at all) versus licences issued. For example my Mustang has both 27 mHz and a VHF. I never used the VHF therefore never needed a licence. You do not need the license to have a VHF installed, just to use.

It is perfectly legal for an unlicensed person to use a VHF in an emergency. The problem is that such a person's lack of understanding of call protocols may add confusion and delay to the process. If you have been through the course, and if you use your radio reasonably regularly, even if just for radio checks, you are more likely to make your distress call in an efficient manner. Remember - this will be done when the poo is hitting the fan big-time and your normal unflappable urbanity may well give way to a level of hysteria! Your practised skills will make a responder's task easier, and hence speed up any required response .

Cheers, Graeme

I think the problem is the unnecessary complexity in obtaining a few basic skills to operate a simple piece of equipment. The MROCP handbook is over 100 pages and contains a whole lot of crap about radio wave propagation, battery properties and other stuff the average boatie doesn't need to know or care about. After "studying" the book, you then have to go and sit an exam somewhere. It's absolutely ludicrous and a detriment to safety. The fact that there are courses you can do to get the licence, says it all! Way too complex.

I've been studying the online info this week... I did downloaded both manuals but haven't touched them.
I recon I have it sussed. There are free revision exams on line. scoring pass marks in the high 90s after 2 tries. Have a list of non common Dog stuff to try to remember but its not to extensive. mainly freq and channel related stuff.
I'm betting the real exam is not too much different.
Time will tell.

I bought an ais class b transmitter about 2 years ago, fitted it and then applied for an mmsi. I got rejected as i didn't have a copy of my radio license... bugger my license was from 2001, and i had misplaced it. Fast forward 2 years, i found my license, put application in and within 24 hours had my mmsi.

Great news for a trip south from Sandy straights to Brisbane last week... hit caloundra just on duark with the following AIS...

I was actually overtaking a 925 foot container ship stooging around waiting to pick up a pilot at 6 knots. I called him up using the name on the ais and got an immediate reply. I was able then to figure out his intentions and manuver safely within a few hundred metres of his stern. This is all solo, running wing on wing at 7-8kts dead downwind.
My 10 yo plotter has never been so useful. AIS and MMSI worth the trouble to acquire. Over.

Select to expand quote

SemusMcgilicoty said..

FreeRadical said..

wongaga said..

Toph said..

FreeRadical said..

About 29% according to this report.

https://www.acma.gov.au/-/media/Numbering-and-Projects/Information/Word-Document/vhf_marine_radiooutcomes_paper-docx.docx?la=en

Im not in the least surprised, especially if the figures come directly from VHF units sold (if its regulated at all) versus licences issued. For example my Mustang has both 27 mHz and a VHF. I never used the VHF therefore never needed a licence. You do not need the license to have a VHF installed, just to use.

It is perfectly legal for an unlicensed person to use a VHF in an emergency. The problem is that such a person's lack of understanding of call protocols may add confusion and delay to the process. If you have been through the course, and if you use your radio reasonably regularly, even if just for radio checks, you are more likely to make your distress call in an efficient manner. Remember - this will be done when the poo is hitting the fan big-time and your normal unflappable urbanity may well give way to a level of hysteria! Your practised skills will make a responder's task easier, and hence speed up any required response .

Cheers, Graeme

I think the problem is the unnecessary complexity in obtaining a few basic skills to operate a simple piece of equipment. The MROCP handbook is over 100 pages and contains a whole lot of crap about radio wave propagation, battery properties and other stuff the average boatie doesn't need to know or care about. After "studying" the book, you then have to go and sit an exam somewhere. It's absolutely ludicrous and a detriment to safety. The fact that there are courses you can do to get the licence, says it all! Way too complex.

I've been studying the online info this week... I did downloaded both manuals but haven't touched them.
I recon I have it sussed. There are free revision exams on line. scoring pass marks in the high 90s after 2 tries. Have a list of non common Dog stuff to try to remember but its not to extensive. mainly freq and channel related stuff.
I'm betting the real exam is not too much different.
Time will tell.

Sat the exam yesterday at AMC. Did not read the book. I just did the online exam examples about 5 times each for LR and SR OCP. Passed theory in 15 mins. 88%.Sat down with Ian and did the prac. 10 mins later had license.
Was easy. Formality really.