I purchased an also transceiver when I brought it I asked how to go about getting the MMI number it's easy just apply they said.
So I go to the site seems I have to get a radio operators licence to apply for a number.
To do this with marine rescue it's a full day and $220 plus cant get in till September.

Does anyone know a way around this? Can I get someone with a licence to apply for the number for me?

You try to do something for safety and all they do is make it difficult.

Looking at the calendar:

calendar.marinerescuensw.com.au/external

There is a LROCP course at Terry Hills on Wed 9th Aug 2017. If you can't get into the course, you could ask to sit the exam at the end of the course. To pass the exam you need to study the Marine Radio Operator's Handbook and do the revision questions:

www.amc.edu.au/industry/omc/handbooks-and-revision-questions

Shouldn't you already have one for use with your VHF radio. you could just make up a number, of course doing that would be wrong, and possibly illegal.

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Bruski068 said..
... you could just make up a number ...]

A problem with that is the radio may only allow the MMSI number to be entered once, so it might be difficult to correct a wrong data entry.

I guess an MMSI number would be useful for an AIS transponder.

For VHF you can use voice communication using your boat's name, and the NSW registration number if the boat is not Australian registered. Hopefully the VHF radio would still function for voice communication without entering a MMSI number.

The MMSI number is used for MF/HF SSB marine radio, as the Australian Maritime Safety Authority only monitors DSC calls on HF. You need an MMSI number to make a DSC call. You need the LROCP to obtain the MMSI number. The cost of the LROCP exam and license is the same as the SROCP. The LROCP requires more study. The LROCP exam is fairly easy, it does require study and revision each day for around 3 to 5 days pass it.

This is just for an AIS Transceiver.
The SROCP cpurse with Marine rescue cost $220 and takes 12 hours over 2 days time I don't have or want to waste on a licence I don't want.
The other way I can get it is to buy the book $15 + test $87+ cost of assessors $37.
The way I have found I can get around it is I have to find someone who has already got the licence and get them to apply for the number then the number is allocated to a vessel not a person . You don't need to be the registered owner of the the vessel or even own a vessel to get the number.
So has anyone got the licence???
You would think they would make this easy rather than as hard as they can.

TwoDogs,
I take it then that you don't have a VHF radio and using a 27Mhz .

Just ring AMSA and enquire. There are only 2 people involved in the MMSI department (from what I've been told) and at least one of them was for me exceptionally helpful and practical on a recent issue.

You also need to supply a passport photo for the SROCP or LROCP license. You can read the Marine Radio Operator's Handbook online if you have a web browser that runs Adobe Flash.

Either the SROCP or LROCP is required to operate a marine VHF radio (I don't know if anyone ever checks).

Looking on the bright side, at least there is no ongoing annual fee to operate the VHF or AIS (there are annual fees for a marine MF/HF transceiver license and amateur radio licenses).

It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

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twodogs1969 said..
I purchased an also transceiver when I brought it I asked how to go about getting the MMI number it's easy just apply they said.
So I go to the site seems I have to get a radio operators licence to apply for a number.

Twodogs,
I bought the book and then sat the exam, you don't need to do the course if you have a modicum of nous. I actually learnt a few things from it, like why you can't talk ship to ship on certain channels (certain channel numbers identify two frequencies for TX and Rx)
I found it worthwhile mate.
My 2 cents.
edit: you can download a copy now, don't need a hard copy anymore.

I agree 2dogs, I thought the same thing. I actually took back the AIS unit i'd brought as I didn't want of have time for the hassle.
Having a license for VHF is just overkill and AIS is a great softly feature on every boat and the authorities should be doing everything to promote them and make it easy for people to have them. You can't enter Singapore harbour without AIS.

Most people end up just getting an AIS receiver(for this you need no number) but in my view this is not good as you might have 50 boats floating around all receiving but if none of them are transmitting then it helps no-one.

I paid $50 to practice online (but could have just read the handbook for free) and then $37 to sit the test which took 5 minutes to complete at my local volunteer marine rescue station. They were a nice bunch of people. The questions were way too easy. Had to provide a passport photo also.

I think it makes sense to educate people on the use of VHF.

I am currently in the Whitsundays and I only commented to the wife yesterday that there are a lot more boats with AIS than there was 2 years ago. Can only be a good thing, though I can not not understand why you need to have a MMSI number. I believe it is something authorities need to look at as it seems the technology is outpacing government bureaucracy.

Jode,
Two cool things I've found with the MMSI number :
Distress. My wife and kids are not dedicated sailors. It was easier to teach them in the case of an emergency to "press the red button" on the vhf. The MMSi continually broadcasts the unique boat id as a distress signal with lat and long. Relay and shore stations monitor even after hours.
Digital hailing. I'm trying to raise the other vessel I can see on AIS with no response. Type in its MMSI and select hail, the other vessel gets a warbling tone and switches automatically to your hailing frequency. Saves chasing through frequency bands .
The pain is typing in the MMSI, but I'm getting pretty good at it now. I have to admit I like the MMSI feature, it's not that arduous to get and a once off challenge. The advantages are there I believe if we take the time to learn about it.
Edit: another one I use a fair bit is the radio check. Doesn't bother the other vessel (auto response) and confirms my vhf is transmitting and receiving ok.

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shaggybaxter said..
Jode,
Two cool things I've found with the MMSI number :
Distress. My wife and kids are not dedicated sailors. It was easier to teach them in the case of an emergency to "press the red button" on the vhf. The MMSi continually broadcasts the unique boat id as a distress signal with lat and long. Relay and shore stations monitor even after hours.
Digital hailing. I'm trying to raise the other vessel I can see on AIS with no response. Type in its MMSI and select hail, the other vessel gets a warbling tone and switches automatically to your hailing frequency. Saves chasing through frequency bands .
The pain is typing in the MMSI, but I'm getting pretty good at it now. I have to admit I like the MMSI feature, it's not that arduous to get and a once off challenge. The advantages are there I believe if we take the time to learn about it.
Edit: another one I use a fair bit is the radio check. Doesn't bother the other vessel (auto response) and confirms my vhf is transmitting and receiving ok.

Hi Shaggy,
Don't get me wrong. Combined with a vhf and digital calling the MMSI is a great tool. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are not that tech savvy and just want to see other boats and other boats to see them. In view of general safety I believe we need to keep it simple, if we keep it simple it will encourage a lot more people to use the basic system. I hold a full radio operators licence with digital endorsement which we required for cat1 and 2. The course for this is a quite in depth along with the Sea Safety course. It is my opinion that any body that goes on the water should do these courses.

Hi Jode,
I agree with you. Any hindrance to attracting people to sailing should be always reviewed, probed and poked looking for improvements. Sailing should be as free and unregulated as possible, the government should keep its nose out of our lives as much as possible.
For purpose of the conversation as it's an interesting topic; I feel like I learn something new every time I go out sailing. Should learning something new be a negative because there is a cost/requires jumping through hoops? A MMSI is a unique ID, our EPIRB's use the same ID, this data needs to be managed to be effective, and management means there is usually a cost incurred.
When the benefit is not only for us, but our crew, other boats and rescue services, should we embrace it, grin and bear the red tape/bureaucracy?
Methinks yes.
I'm not saying I'm right. But if having an MMSI can mitigate death and damage in our sport, which then by proxy removes more government oversight and regulation, I see it as a small price to pay.

You make a good point regards the SSSC course, it's excellent. I'm half tempted to mandate it for all crew I take offshore. Its interesting that compared to the MMSI, it was significantly more expensive and required a lot more commitment in time, and I don't know anyone that hasn't enjoyed it and gained from the experience.

Good thread subject and good rational responses, enjoyable topic to banter around.

Shaggy my point is why do you need a VHF License for an MMSI number?
What has talking in a radio got to do with an AIS Transceiver? I'd don't want to talk on the radio it is there for emergency use.
With the transceiver I just want the MMSI number so it can do it's own thing.
Wouldn't it be an advantage for safety authorities if I also linked the MMSI number to my epirb?
Why make it more difficult than it has to be?
Remember I am no longer racing I don't have to have an AIS Transceiver or my MMSI number linked to an epirb the fact I am willing to do this they should make it as simple as possible.
The other crazy thing is the number is allocated to a vessel not a person so I get the licence obtain the MMSI number sell the boat the new owner gets the MMSI number but has never done the obtained the licence?

G'day Twodogs,
I don't disagree with you on most points. I do think the license requirement is sensible and the process is as painless as you could make it whilst keeping it competency based (you have to pass, not just complete the exam), as using a DSC VHF can trigger a SAR distress call and hence automatically generate a SAR response.
There is enough numpties on the water sadly that lots of false Distress calls would be a reality if it was unregulated I fear. I admit I read my vhf radio manual a few times and couldn't understand how to use it effectively, it was the AMSA course book that filled in the gaps.
This license has nothing to do with AIS of course, aside from the MMSI allowing you to transmit on AIS.
I agree it being weird with the MMSI being locked to the boat! I think it has to be transferred though, as your AMSA login and profile is based on the person. In that profile the MMSI is tied to a vessel name.

There seems to be a lot of confusion here regarding the MMSI, it's requirement to have one, it't purpose and also in some comments, its connection to the EPIRB.

Twodogs, this will lead to a bit of a thread drift, but I think it has already gone that way already anyway. I just want to address (quote) some comments which raise some concerns (and some just out of interest) and I don't think that that can be done in between seperate posts. Hopefully you find the answer still though.

Also, I am not saying that I am correct. I am just opening some of the comments up for further discussion.

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I guess an MMSI number would be useful for an AIS transponder.

A MMSI is not just useful, but is required for the transceiver to operate. It is what transmits the unique code (MMSI)

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Hopefully the VHF radio would still function for voice communication without entering a MMSI number.

Are you talking about not programming the MMSI at initial instal or before broadcasting? In either case, a VHF radio (or any other radio) will operate without a MMSI. You just won't be able to use the DSC or Distress feature of the radio. If you are referring to the act of making an actual call, well it will also still operate. In fact, after making a distress call using DSC, you are meant to back it up with a voice call anyway.

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The MMSI number is used for MF/HF SSB marine radio, as the Australian Maritime Safety Authority only monitors DSC calls on HF.

It is also used for VHF (and AIS). AMSA might only monitor HF, but other vessels in your area will receive it on VHF (a much better and clearer option then HF).

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You need the LROCP to obtain the MMSI number.

As AIS is on the VHF spectrum, all you need is the simpler SROCP to apply for a MMSI

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AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries.

The issue with this is that the devices that utilise an MMSI are fixed instruments where as the EPIRB is often transportable. For example, one of my EPIRBS has two lots of information on it. When I go remote camping (and I mean remote as in not seeing another vehicle or person for sometimes a week or more), I allocate the EPIRB to my car along with some trip details. This means if I was to activate the EPIRB and the signal is triangulated to the middle of the desert, then it will make sense to whomever is monitoring. If it is still allocated to the boat, then a lot of time is wasted scratching heads.

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why you need to have a MMSI number.

Because the MMSI is the identifying code for the boat. One code for AIS and DSC. My AIS display is on an older chart plotter and it won't actually show the name of anything using a class B transceiver, only the MMSI. Pain in the arse, but you do get to recognise some numbers eventually. I must do a software update for that plotter. I am sure ray marine have fixed the issue.

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A MMSI is a unique ID, our EPIRB's use the same ID.

I am not going to call BS, but this doesn't sound right to me. A MMSI is a 9 number unique identifier to the boat. An EPIRB is a HEX number containing 15 numbers and a also a few letters. The Hex number is allocated to the EPIRB at manufacture. A MMSI is inputed to your radio (including AIS) after purchase. Some countries require the MMSI to be entered by the dealer, not by the individual.

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Why do you need a VHF License for an MMSI number?

For the record, I agree with your grievance. But the AIS is a device using the VHF spectrum and currently (right or wrong) VHF requires an operators licence.

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The other crazy thing is the number is allocated to a vessel not a person so I get the licence obtain the MMSI number sell the boat the new owner gets the MMSI number but has never done the obtained the licence?

Because as when you sell a boat, you don't usually strip it of it's radios and instrumentation, and as someone else has said, entering an MMSI into a radio or AIS transceiver is usually a one shot deal. EPIRBS on the other hand expire (well the batteries do) and it is often easier to just chuck and replace with a new one (again right or wrong).

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The other crazy thing is the number is allocated to a vessel not a person so I get the licence obtain the MMSI number sell the boat the new owner gets the MMSI number but has never done the obtained the licence?

Yeah crazy huh.... Typical government departments. The MMSI is obtained through AMSA whereas you VHF licence is obtained through ACMA. I'm betting the ACMA have directed AMSA to not allocate an MMSI without first have a VHF licence due to the fact the same MMSI can be inputted to a VHF radio

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I think it has to be transferred though, as your AMSA login and profile is based on the person. In that profile the MMSI is tied to a vessel name.

No, the MMSI stays with the boat. What you do need to do is inform AMSA of the change. They don't charge for any of this and I did it recently with a 3 min phone call...

The AIS is also only an AID to navigation. Whereas the EPIRB is an Authority (for want of a better term). AIS isn't yet a requirement for pleasure vessel although it probably could be, especially those doing night passages. At the moment the legislation is geared up towards the big boys. I would hope if they ever make AIS a requirement then obtaining some of these numbers/licences or what have you, becomes easier.

Open to discuss, and free to be corrected.

Troph you are spot on with what I have now found out.
My issue is it reeks of government departments trying to justify their existence.I only get 1 weekend off out of 3 so don't want to spend it doing a course which is only run once a month.
I have done a practice test available online got 68% without any study so obtaining %70 should be easy. I have ordered the book as I find it easier to have a hard copy plus I think it would be good for the bride to read it too.
I will then just sit the test.
Unless someone who has already got the licence wants to apply for the number for me then once it is allocated to my vessel I could then add it to my VHF to use on DSC.

Also Troph let your wife know both my wife and I enjoy reading her blog

Yeah she has a way with words Twodogs. You should try having an argument with her .
Once we leave Darwin (was suppose to be Monday just gone) and head through the Kimberly she will start posting again. She doesn't seem to post about the boring and expensive marina/ maintenance stops.... Also, since leaving TI, phone reception has been extremely few and far between to post anything.. Good in a way though.

Old thread I know. A question.
So the boat I have brought has an Icom Hf radio installed. Does that mean it will already have an MMSI number allocated? If thats the case then I'll need to contact AMSA and inform them that the boats changed hands?

Thanks

Dexport, I have an Icom 801 (and the 802 is the same) and when you first turn the unit on, you will see the MMSI number on the screen if one has been entered.

But I would do a search on the AMSA website to see if a MMSI has been allocated to the boat as well just in case the HF came off another boat initially.

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Toph said..
Dexport, I have an Icom 801 (and the 802 is the same) and when you first turn the unit on, you will see the MMSI number on the screen if one has been entered.

But I would do a search on the AMSA website to see if a MMSI has been allocated to the boat as well just in case the HF came off another boat initially.

Hi Toph

this boat was custom built with everything being new in 2004.
Radio is a Icom IC-M701RT
MMSI isn't anywhere on the screen that I can see.

701 or 710 Dex?
I cant find anything on an Icom 701, but I don't think the 710 has DSC capability (therefore not programmable with a MMSI).

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Toph said..
701 or 710 Dex?
I cant find anything on an Icom 701, but I don't think the 710 has DSC capability (therefore not programmable with a MMSI).

Yeah sorry 710.
Ive done a search on the amsa website and there's nothing found there. So it appears there's no MMSI for this vessel. I'll have to apply for one myself. Thanks for the help Toph

Not as simple as just applying you need a radio license to get the mmsi number.

If its not a DSC radio it will not take a MMSI number.

But if it can you may have to take it to a dealer to insert as you only get one chance [in the radios lifetime] to upload a MMSI number.

Check with the local dealer.

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sirgallivant said..
It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

Im with you Sir G. My EPIRB has an MMSI number thats good enough for me. I dont need another one for a VHF.

Trying to make people get VHF licences for safety equipment is one of the governments usual badly thought out money grabbing ideas. Why on earth would the government make it hard for people to provide safety for themselves at sea. Good grief.

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Trek said..

sirgallivant said..
It is high time to do away with VHF licencing altogether.
It is really a joke, as nobody is able or willing to police it. It is a bad law and should die with contempt.
I hope the authorities wake up sooner than later.
Like they did it for CB radios years ago.

No licence of any sort is going to keep the idiots from doing what they are doing anyway.

Greed should win over practicality, as the licencing is impossible to police and it is not bringing in huge revenue.

On the same note, AIS is a safety feature and should be linked to the EPIRB the vessel carries, though l haven't got an AIS and l am ignorant of the full legislation.

Im with you Sir G. My EPIRB has an MMSI number thats good enough for me. I dont need another one for a VHF.

Trying to make people get VHF licences for safety equipment is one of the governments usual badly thought out money grabbing ideas. Why on earth would the government make it hard for people to provide safety for themselves at sea. Good grief.

I think that the "confusion" illustrated by these two posts is sound enough reason to continue for MRCOP education and licensing.
eg An EPIRB has a unique HEX no. not an MMSI and a unique MMSI is issued for a ship station DSC radio and AIS different to a hand held DSC radio. THe MMSI numbers contain a number of unique identifiers including country codes and issue of these is subject to international protocols (not just Australian). Surely to simply educate oneself on radio operating procedure and demonstrate this by obtaining a licence is a fairly simple safety step.

If you register your epirb you can link it to your vessel therefore also it's mmsi if you have one.
The plus for getting an mmsi is you can then have a transceier the aid system relies on boats transponding if we all only have receivers it is uselss .
Why should we have to have a vhf license to get an mmsi number when really they are not related. You would think as having an mmsi number makes for a safer vessel and greaer ease for rescuers it would be made as simple as it could be to obtain.
One thing the cost of getting the license is cheap in the scheme of boats.

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twodogs1969 said..
If you register your epirb you can link it to your vessel therefore also it's mmsi if you have one.
The plus for getting an mmsi is you can then have a transceier the aid system relies on boats transponding if we all only have receivers it is uselss .
Why should we have to have a vhf license to get an mmsi number when really they are not related. You would think as having an mmsi number makes for a safer vessel and greaer ease for rescuers it would be made as simple as it could be to obtain.
One thing the cost of getting the license is cheap in the scheme of boats.

Two dogs, you appear to have forgotten that common sense and the public service are two things that definitely don't go together. The term simple is usually applied to those that manage the said service.