Hi all,

We are a couple wanting to get into sailing. Our main purpose for sailing is because we are scuba divers and we are doing underwater videos and photography. Sailing would allow us to go many places currently not accessible to us.

Due to budget constraints, we have 2 options:
1. Getting a smaller but strong boat that can we can sail now in Australian costal waters and refit over a few years before taking it overseas; or
2. Save up and get a bigger, blue water boat in a few years time.

Places we would like to go are the Philippines, Indonesia and eventually Galapagos and South America.

We are interested in the Clansman 30. It is a small boat, very narrow beam, but we think we can add additional water tanks and water maker and the necessary electronics for ocean crossing and we are minimalists.

My question is, ignoring our sailing ability, is Clansman 30 suitable for ocean crossing.

Which option in your opinion is the better option? We ideally want to avoid buying and refitting a boat only to have to sell it and refit another boat.

Thank you

I'm guessing you have watched all the Free Range Sailing U tubes .

Pretty much anything is blue water capable in the right hands.

As BB said, the couple on Free Range Sailing are sailing around Australia. They discuss provisioning issues, maintenance issues, etc en route. A Compass28 or similar would also suffice, but scuba gear seems a factor.

Sufficient electronics in total would cost less than a grand (VHF, depth sounder, GPS, maybe a chart plotter). A radar would cost more, but not always essential. 200 litres of water capacity could be stored quite easily, and tropical places are known to have fresh water falling from the sky (just add tarpaulin, funnel and pipe).
Scuba diving requires tanks, masks, and your camera gear. That might mean you would need to refill the tanks/have a capacity of 10 hours or so between having them refilled. But do-able. This aspect I don't know about, but might be the thing that limits your time underwater.

If you are going that far I would suggest something bigger to handle the weight better. A Duncanson 34 is a great boat that are not pricey and a lot more comfortable than the Clansman. Clansman's are nice boats but they roll like the dickens with a kite up on a square (but that might be the kite). As others have said, it could be done, but a nice Dunco or East Coast 31 or Bounty 35 is a more modern design with more room, more weight carrying ability, much drier and far better to windward whilst still being solid.

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1985-eastcoast-31/OAG-AD-19869136/?Cr=1

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/duncanson/?keywords=34

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/duncanson/?keywords=34

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Kankama said..
If you are going that far I would suggest something bigger to handle the weight better. A Duncanson 34 is a great boat that are not pricey and a lot more comfortable than the Clansman. Clansman's are nice boats but they roll like the dickens with a kite up on a square (but that might be the kite). As others have said, it could be done, but a nice Dunco or East Coast 31 or Bounty 35 is a more modern design with more room, more weight carrying ability, much drier and far better to windward whilst still being solid.

www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1985-eastcoast-31/OAG-AD-19869136/?Cr=1

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/duncanson/?keywords=34

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/duncanson/?keywords=34

Hi Kankana,

Do you know if the Duncanson 34, East Coast 31 or Bounty 35, are they full fibreglass hull or cored? We are worried about cored hull.

Thanks

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FabulousPhill said..
As BB said, the couple on Free Range Sailing are sailing around Australia. They discuss provisioning issues, maintenance issues, etc en route. A Compass28 or similar would also suffice, but scuba gear seems a factor.

Sufficient electronics in total would cost less than a grand (VHF, depth sounder, GPS, maybe a chart plotter). A radar would cost more, but not always essential. 200 litres of water capacity could be stored quite easily, and tropical places are known to have fresh water falling from the sky (just add tarpaulin, funnel and pipe).
Scuba diving requires tanks, masks, and your camera gear. That might mean you would need to refill the tanks/have a capacity of 10 hours or so between having them refilled. But do-able. This aspect I don't know about, but might be the thing that limits your time underwater.

FabulourPhill,

We originally wanted a compressor for refilling tanks, but we have decided to start off on a Hookah set. Diving in Australia on the GBR is not very deep, a Hookah set should be adequate and all we need is to carry a few jerry cans for it.

Thank you for your input, we definitely need 200L of water, maybe add a water maker in the future if needed.

Having a daughter and son in law who are both master divers and watching the hullabaloo they go through I would make a couple of observations.
1. A swim platform would be nice to slide off and on , put flippers on spit in mask and whatever. Climbing onto a Clansman could be a pita
2. An area reserved for suiting up and changing without wetting everything etc.
Perhaps a centre cockpit where the rear deck could be set aside with a swimming platform on the transom BUT $$$ is the deciding factor
,Like this
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/jarkan-10-5/262212
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/adams-31-centre-cockpit/239258

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Bananabender said..
Having a daughter and son in law who are both master divers and watching the hullabaloo they go through I would make a couple of observations.
1. A swim platform would be nice to slide off and on , put flippers on spit in mask and whatever. Climbing onto a Clansman could be a pita
2. An area reserved for suiting up and changing without wetting everything etc.
Perhaps a centre cockpit where the rear deck could be set aside with a swimming platform on the transom BUT $$$ is the deciding factor
,Like this
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/jarkan-10-5/262212
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/adams-31-centre-cockpit/239258

Bananabender:

What do you think of the Mottle 33? Here is an example. Do you know if it's a full fibre glass hull boat? It seems to be very spacious for 2 people and the price is still reasonable. Would this be a boat capable of ocean crossing?

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/mottle-33/242321

Thanks

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Hevene said..

Bananabender said..
Having a daughter and son in law who are both master divers and watching the hullabaloo they go through I would make a couple of observations.
1. A swim platform would be nice to slide off and on , put flippers on spit in mask and whatever. Climbing onto a Clansman could be a pita
2. An area reserved for suiting up and changing without wetting everything etc.
Perhaps a centre cockpit where the rear deck could be set aside with a swimming platform on the transom BUT $$$ is the deciding factor
,Like this
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/jarkan-10-5/262212
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/adams-31-centre-cockpit/239258

Bananabender:

What do you think of the Mottle 33? Here is an example. Do you know if it's a full fibre glass hull boat? It seems to be very spacious for 2 people and the price is still reasonable. Would this be a boat capable of ocean crossing?

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/mottle-33/242321

Thanks

Sorry mate I can't answer that. It is full fibreglass but those with better knowledge here will advise.
Guys!

Have a read
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Mottle?page=1

www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/van-de-stadt-34-owner-says-sell-19990/240824

this would be pretty good.
good performance, roomy, good spacious cockpit for diving out of, big enough to carry a decent amount of gear, strong ocean going design.

My feeling is a Clansman does not have enough free board, seems to submarine into swell and when working hard upwind and healing the gunwales are under water.

The East Coast, the Bounty, the Mottle and the Dunco - in fact all these 70s and 80s boats are probably solid glass in the hulls. There may be some balsa in the deck. There were many different small builders selling moulds to each other so there is no way to check. Ask the seller and then get someone to check with you. Solid glass is okay, I like cores, and lots of decks use balsa to save weight and make the boat stiffer and lighter. Some balsa decks get spongy. Take a good look there. Be careful of wanting a certain boat or type with your lack of experience - a good steel Van de stat may be more your thing. As said before, something with a swim platform aft would be good, so a wider bum and a duck board would be nice.

the clasman choice of design for offshore is great but for extended cruise and carrying dive equipment as well may prove to be a challenge
i put them as the perfect 2 handed budget cruiser

I go past a Clansman most mornings and I would consider them way too small for a couple to cruise with. The Mottle 33 would be the smallest boat I would consider and I think any of the 34 footers would suit. I would also consider a Swanson 36. A Swanson 36 with a sugar scoop stern will be a good starting point.
If your happy using a hookah and think this is a smart way to go then a 12v one would be my choice and is what I use. The cost of solar panels and superb controllers are so cheap today combined with lithium batteries it's a bit of a no brainer.

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Hevene said..
Hi all,

We are a couple wanting to get into sailing. Our main purpose for sailing is because we are scuba divers and we are doing underwater videos and photography. Sailing would allow us to go many places currently not accessible to us.

Due to budget constraints, we have 2 options:
1. Getting a smaller but strong boat that can we can sail now in Australian costal waters and refit over a few years before taking it overseas; or
2. Save up and get a bigger, blue water boat in a few years time.

Do 1, not 2. The experience you will get on a smaller, cheaper boat will be invaluable if or when you decide to step up.



As pointed out above, Free Range Sailing is all about a Clansman 30, and the presenters have done a great job on it. Note the amount of time they have spent on fixing up and refitting the boat. Also note the details, such as size of cockpit, and try to visualize yourselves squeezing into a wetsuit in that cockpit. The reality is that you will probably not get everything you want on your first boat, so think of it as a starter boat that you intend to swap out in a few years' time.

Go simple, go small, and go now.

The Clansman is very wet. I raced on one in Sydney some years back and in any sort of sea/wind you get soaked, and that was in the harbour. They are very solid and I expect can handle the conditions but it would be very uncomfortable and they are tiny internally.

Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

Thanks for all the response.

We are now looking into the Mottle 33 and Duncanson 34. They look a lot more spacious and are capable boats. I will look at other boats if I come across them. We are now in the planning stage

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Hevene said..
Thanks for all the response.

We are now looking into the Mottle 33 and Duncanson 34. They look a lot more spacious and are capable boats. I will look at other boats if I come across them. We are now in the planning stage

Great thing about the mottle is that the keel is integral with the hull and so there are no keel bolts to worry about. Lots of other nice aspects to the design as well like double spreader rig.

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2bish said..
Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

I watched the latest video a couple of days ago where they had just left Coffin Bay. Couple of days into the passage and there were hints that their current boat was getting to be a bit small. I suspect after Perth they might be considering something more practicable.

Reminds me of my father's Folkboat which I sailed lot with very little free board and water coming in the cockpit over the gunnels when hard pressed. In this regard see the episode where they are coming into Broken Bay Pittwater. Most uncomfortable but that said an extremely seaworthy and unbreakable little boat with great directional stability.

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stray said..
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/van-de-stadt-34-owner-says-sell-19990/240824

this would be pretty good.
good performance, roomy, good spacious cockpit for diving out of, big enough to carry a decent amount of gear, strong ocean going design.

+1 for a Van de Stadt 34, great design and a lot more room compared to similar 34 yachts. I would try to find a wood / epoxy one, but the steel and aluminum ones would also work.

www.stadtdesign.com/designs/stock_plans_sail/van_de_stadt_34

Ilenart

The Clansman is pretty close dimension and interior wise (water-line length, beam, draft etc) to a Compass 28, except for the stretched out stern. I have a Compass 28, and I cannot imagine how you could comfortably accommodate two people plus scuba gear, provisions, water, fuel, spares etc etc for extended passages. Go bigger as the previous chaps have suggested.

Cheers, Graeme

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Ramona said..

2bish said..
Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

I watched the latest video a couple of days ago where they had just left Coffin Bay. Couple of days into the passage and there were hints that their current boat was getting to be a bit small. I suspect after Perth they might be considering something more practicable.

Nar, they are already north of Perth, check their Facebook page.

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nswsailor said..

Ramona said..

2bish said..
Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

I watched the latest video a couple of days ago where they had just left Coffin Bay. Couple of days into the passage and there were hints that their current boat was getting to be a bit small. I suspect after Perth they might be considering something more practicable.

Nar, they are already north of Perth, check their Facebook page.

Yeah I can't see them getting rid of it after the extensive barebones refit they did in Tasmania which took them ages. In one episode he says why he chose a Clansman after some major storm presumably in WA where he saw a whole bunch of other yachts washed up on the shore and smashed beyond repair and a Clansman which was refloated and all in one piece. A lot to be said in extreme conditions for a solid (thick) glass boat with a full length integral keel protecting the rudder. Space a definite problem however and that's the price you pay . Like most things in life it's a trade-off and you can't have everything. I spent a long time looking for a Mottle about 6 months ago and couldn't find what I considered a good one in New South Wales. Even went to Melbourne to look at 1 but suspect that I missed out on one in Brisbane which was bought by a couple who employed a delivery skipper sailing with them and after heavy weather they pulled into Coffs and put the boat up for sale again. A good one would have been mine in a heartbeat.

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nswsailor said..

Ramona said..

2bish said..
Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

I watched the latest video a couple of days ago where they had just left Coffin Bay. Couple of days into the passage and there were hints that their current boat was getting to be a bit small. I suspect after Perth they might be considering something more practicable.

Nar, they are already north of Perth, check their Facebook page.

According to their latest youtube video, 11 hours old, they are getting an arse kicking crossing the Bight.

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Ramona said..

nswsailor said..

Ramona said..

2bish said..
Hi Hevene, apart from the good info offered here, have you checked out this YouTube channel:

I'm pretty sure that's a 30' Clansman. It should give you a good feel for the boat and its capabilities.

I watched the latest video a couple of days ago where they had just left Coffin Bay. Couple of days into the passage and there were hints that their current boat was getting to be a bit small. I suspect after Perth they might be considering something more practicable.

Nar, they are already north of Perth, check their Facebook page.

According to their latest youtube video, 11 hours old, they are getting an arse kicking crossing the Bight.

Yeah apparently the videos are running considerably behind real time

It seems the latest video that came out yesterday was actually the 31st of March. They might have to start holding a newspaper page up showing the date or at least mention it on Youtube.

I just sailed my 35 foot Jarkan 10.5 up the east coast from Batemans Bay to Hervey Bay - we managed 3m swells and 24kt winds easily enough - she is solid, hand laid fibreglass, the hull is 2" thick - if you want a solid, small(ish) yacht to sail in any weather conditions, you'd be hard pressed to go past a Jarkan 10.5. That said, I think the Clansman yachts were pretty seaworthy, and I've known a few folks who sail and swear by them. They are small though, and a little cramped onboard. They also don't carry a lot of water or fuel, so you'd be thinking about externally carried jerry cans and a water maker if you're thinking of true blue water work. Don't let that stop you though - good luck with what ever you end up with.