If you're sailing solo, hanking on the headsail is possible, but a furler will be safer and give you more confidence. You can't stow a hanked on headsail without going forward. If you drop it in heavy winds and it goes in over the side, with sheets tangled... Get a furler. I got an Alado for a 27 footer, relatively inexpensive, DIY installation, and bullet proof. Keep in mind you'll need to modify your existing headsails or grab a second hand one with bolt rope.

In addition to the safety reasons a furler allows you to 'reef' the headsail to suit conditions. If you 'drop' the headsail when you become over powered you will struggle to make headway.
You usually only become over powered when going upwind which is when you need the headsail.

Spend the money you won't regret it

MorningBird said..
One of the very best improvements to a cruising yacht. Replaces 3 sails, avoids going forward of the mast in dangerous conditions. Get a good sail cut for the furler with foam in the luff to retain shape when partially furled.
It will be money very well spent.

Ok im sold! THanks all.

OK, you guys need to remember a headsail furler and a reefable headsail furler are two very different beasts!!

If you want to effectivly reef your headsail you need a furler and headsail that are designed to do just that, eg. a tack swivels or foam in the luff, plus the sail cut to suit.

One of the cheap small furlers will leave you with very bad reefed shapes and make the headsail very inefficient for any upwind work.

How big is your boat SectorSteve?

Unfortunately most good reefing furlers (have a tack swivel) start a bit bigger than your boat needs, for something that is decently priced anyway.

IMHO these are the best furlers available but start for 1/4" wire and about $2k
www.almasts.com.au/the-system/

I have put one on a older 30 footer and it didn't look out of place.

From there your looking at the Harken MK1V unit but that's over $3k!!

Steve opinions are like arse holes everyone has one and as so many threads on here show people believe in different things.
Is it necessary no is it easier yes is it safer yes will a furled head sail preform as well as multiple sails no. As fof the comments about storm jibs you have two options you can get them withthe ability to just go over the furled headsail or if you have a baby stay use it for the storm sail.
as for the cost why do you need new? Gumtree has heaps of second hand furlers and get a second hand sail.

I have a very early almast fuller on mine. Was on a bit of a budget doing other work on the boat and new sails were not an option ( the old one was had it) so I got a good second hand hank on sail and used sail slugs to put it on the furler. Works fine, but I don't use it for reefing just for storing over night or at anchor. Will get a new one eventually, but I'm sailing again so I'm happy. Just saying you can do it a bit at a time

I agree with twodogs as far as opinions are concerned..........whoever.........

My yacht has a furler, but this is, how it was bought. Also got a cutter stay, so when it starts to blow l bend the cutter sail and furl the headsail. I only have to go half way to the foredeck when l must change the cutter sail to a storm sail. Very rarely and always clipped on!

In fact, all of the boats l was racing on had hanked sails and on some l was doing the foredeck. Never mind going forward, it is real sailing. I feel like a whimp when l am unfurling the heady on mine after a race on the other boat working the foredeck.

Imo, you would be better live with what you got. Why?

There is absolutely nothing wrong to go forward to handle your sails on the foredeck - if it is done sensibly, ment to be clipped on! - if one is up to it physically. You have no problem there as you ride an Enfield and you are relatively young, agile. A cruiser also could heave to, to change the rag up front, then have a cuppa and carry on music blairing. No rush there. Oh...fit a mesh to your life lines to stop the sail slipping overboard.

Racing people - a different breed altogether- want to squeeze the last possible fathom out of the yacht, so they are willing to spend big time on things what a cruiser simply does not need.
Cruisers listening to the racers cackling of better performance fall for the hype of raising performance with this and that, but really, they seldom achieve anything substantial. Might raise your speed by half a knot or give you an extra half of a point heading upwind, but so what? One is cruising. Hey?


The cost is going to be substantial as you must change from hanks to bolt rope which money would be spent wiser somewhere else (Solar panel, new batteries....) imo. If l had my boat fitted with hanked sails, l would have not changed them for a furler until re-rigging the boat would have been necessary, if at all.
One could change hanked sails quite fast, hanking the new sail under the working sail before pullin it down.
To bend the second sail under the one you use and store it on the fore deck ready to be used, could be another approach.
Also, one could fit a second forestay which would make one able to bend twins (No1 and No2 or an assy?) goosewinged for downwind work. A real cruising arrangement seldom seen this days saving the possibility of an accidental gibe as you drop the main when goosewinged. Similar arrangement could be achieved with double foil and a twin sail, if one had a furler.

I would change the hanks though, from piston hanks to Wichard hanks. They are much more handy, do not get rust or salt accumulated in the pistons, no maintenance. They are also much easier to work on with gloves on and cold hands.

Furlers are good, reliable most of times, maintenance free, no grease or lube needed like sail tracks, just flush them with fresh water once a while and Bob'sYerUncle.
As a cruiser, l do not mind to furl my heady half way and make it look like Mother Hubbard's washing. It might not draw as well as a hanked sail and look a bit untidy, but as l am growing older l learn how to live with compromises and so be it. After all l am cruising. Cheers!




Ps: l got no idea what happened here but three is better than one. Another compromise l have to live with. Struth!

Sectorsteve said...

boty said..
i do a lot of cruising with usually at least one long passage a year often on my own though i don't normally do more than 20 hours at a stretch on my own as i have a fear of running into ships so prefer someone on watch while sleeping i also do a fair amount of delivery work and sailing on other peoples boats
i have always had hank on sails on my yachts and have never had a problem with them if it suddenly increases in wind strength its very easy to fire the halyard and lash down the heady before hanking on the new one
i have been on yachts with furlers where they have jammed for several reasons (deflectors coming off causing halyards to wrap to much forestay sag ) and then trying to furl big headies when it has been left on a bit to long (not so bad if you have electric winches but hard if manual ) the other disadvantage is if trying to get off the furled headsail to reduce sail to storm gear in a blow the thought of this scares me
so my feeling is on the headsails over about 30 square meters are probably to big to easily handle on your own so a furler becomes necessary ,but under that the loss of windward performance ( more time bashing to windward )its probably worth putting up with getting wet on the foredeck

see youve just thrown a spanner in the works boty!
this is why i asked the question. Im a real believer in "simple is best" I only have one forestay. The boat is 25 foot. Ive heard that furlers just need to be used and greased or maintained and they should be fine. This isnt a problem. Try owning a Royal Enfield Motorcycle as a primary means of transport. :) Im guessing to do this method as you describe, you should have an inner forestay??? without one i cant see you not having to go to the foredeck, to at least remove the dropped sail. I have good sails. All east/West, Australian made and in new condition. previous owner didnt use them. my number 1 is reefable, so its a 1 and 2, and ive got a 3 and 4. Essentially 4 sails in 3. Big one lives on deck when cruising around, the other 2 are under the bed, easy to get to. I guess they could live on deck to secured, stowed on the foredeck. Something to ponder anyway.

I have to disagree with boty on this one. Getting caught out in strong winds happens to all of us. Dropping the sail, it flogging around, a loose halyard with shackle, waves breaking over you, going forward clipped on. We do it but no it isn't easy and yes it is dangerous.
Modern furlers are rugged, reliable and need little maintenance. If it is properly installed and you keep the furling line in good shape you have more chance of being hit by lightning than the furler failing.
A 2nd hand one might do but there is usually a reason they are being sold. They are old and worn out.
One piece of advice on using a furler. Never ever use a winch to furl it. If the line has got caught or wrapped you will feel it when you are pulling on the line. A winch will mask the minor problem and you will break something and have a major problem. Just luff up, wind in what you need to, resume sailing.

MorningBird said..

Sectorsteve said...

boty said..
i do a lot of cruising with usually at least one long passage a year often on my own though i don't normally do more than 20 hours at a stretch on my own as i have a fear of running into ships so prefer someone on watch while sleeping i also do a fair amount of delivery work and sailing on other peoples boats
i have always had hank on sails on my yachts and have never had a problem with them if it suddenly increases in wind strength its very easy to fire the halyard and lash down the heady before hanking on the new one
i have been on yachts with furlers where they have jammed for several reasons (deflectors coming off causing halyards to wrap to much forestay sag ) and then trying to furl big headies when it has been left on a bit to long (not so bad if you have electric winches but hard if manual ) the other disadvantage is if trying to get off the furled headsail to reduce sail to storm gear in a blow the thought of this scares me
so my feeling is on the headsails over about 30 square meters are probably to big to easily handle on your own so a furler becomes necessary ,but under that the loss of windward performance ( more time bashing to windward )its probably worth putting up with getting wet on the foredeck

see youve just thrown a spanner in the works boty!
this is why i asked the question. Im a real believer in "simple is best" I only have one forestay. The boat is 25 foot. Ive heard that furlers just need to be used and greased or maintained and they should be fine. This isnt a problem. Try owning a Royal Enfield Motorcycle as a primary means of transport. :) Im guessing to do this method as you describe, you should have an inner forestay??? without one i cant see you not having to go to the foredeck, to at least remove the dropped sail. I have good sails. All east/West, Australian made and in new condition. previous owner didnt use them. my number 1 is reefable, so its a 1 and 2, and ive got a 3 and 4. Essentially 4 sails in 3. Big one lives on deck when cruising around, the other 2 are under the bed, easy to get to. I guess they could live on deck to secured, stowed on the foredeck. Something to ponder anyway.

I have to disagree with boty on this one. Getting caught out in strong winds happens to all of us. Dropping the sail, it flogging around, a loose halyard with shackle, waves breaking over you, going forward clipped on. We do it but no it isn't easy and yes it is dangerous.
Modern furlers are rugged, reliable and need little maintenance. If it is properly installed and you keep the furling line in good shape you have more chance of being hit by lightning than the furler failing.
A 2nd hand one might do but there is usually a reason they are being sold. They are old and worn out.
One piece of advice on using a furler. Never ever use a winch to furl it. If the line has got caught or wrapped you will feel it when you are pulling on the line. A winch will mask the minor problem and you will break something and have a major problem. Just luff up, wind in what you need to, resume sailing.

What about when you drop the sail you actually have a system where you can pull the sail down from the halyard? this may stop it flogging. good in theory but in practice could be dicey...
The thing i do have on my side is agility. Having said that, the other day out solo in 25+kn and 3 metre waves the thought of going forward if needed wasnt a pleasant one. In fact something did happen up forward, but i left it. No AP and solo, so a bit tricky to go forward. Im all about safety, but at the same time i like basic, and im also broke. Just bought my first home and really scraping by. Been chopping and selling firewood on the side in the southern highlands! good for the fitness. Sad to say the money is going on bills mostly as there is nothing left over...Theres light at the end of the tunnel somewhere! I hate not being able to afford stuff for the boat though.. I did spash out on the bimini and jammer recently, but the thing i really need is ropes before the jammer goes on! that was cheap though....

HG02 said..
sector steve Ive pm ed you

what are you giving me now santa! we'll be having a beer or 2 on me in a few weeks Haydn!

rumblefish said..
A headsail tack swivel on the furler with the appropriate sail made to suit (cut back at the head and tack as per the link I posted above) means that the middle of the sail is furled before the tack and head. This has the effect of flattening the sail as it furls meaning no ugly creases and a flatter sail as you reef for stronger conditions.

Proper luff padding, properly shaped, will let the sail reef furl without loosing shape. Furlex lets you dump the top swivel and use the two slots for racing if you are into doing a peel (and it works) but they are a bit exy. The profurls I have had are very durable, but they were the only furlers that occasionally jammed the furling line - don't know why.
Hanks are for spunky young pricks.

www.seldenmast.com/files/1426855958/595-102-E.pdf

well its out on the table now to put it back together
Found this old thread while I was getting the PDF
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Problem-with-Furlex-100S/

Oh yes you need a stay loc thimble to replace the existing one
www.seabreeze.com.au/Photos/View/9916644/Sailing/furlex-3-002/?m=3&p=HG02
inside this fitting is the stay loc thimble for want of a better word.
It can be either purchase off some one like almasts or a stay loc dealer like
www.harboursidechandlery.com.au/catalog/stalok-wedge-1x19-p-15730.html v < wedge its called

With the greatest of respect to those who feel otherwise, I'll go with those who say that going up to the foredeck is not dangerous. Who can tell us the last time that anyone went overboard off a foredeck? When we are racing we run (literally) around them with no issues, and of course when necessary we crawl around them with no issues. As someone has already noted, you can always just lie ahull to stop the boat while changing sails.

You can also rig a downhaul line from the head of the jib, leading to a block at the base of the forestay, so you can pull it down from the cockpit. If the sheet is fairly tight and the boat is close enough to head to wind, the jib will normally fall inside the lifelines.

Personally I've had a racing style headfoil on my boat for (gulp) about 25 years. It's getting beaten up at the bottom but if it goes I'll just put another headfoil on. I find it actually more convenient than hanks because you just have to clip the halyard and tack line on; no playing with pistons. I know SS won't go that way but IMHO it just shows how many different but valid approaches there are.

For bigger boats I'm very impressed with my brother's fractional rig cutter - a roller furling genoa and a hanked on staysail for when it gets windy. Very simple and efficient, and you don't have the problem of trying to get upwind in big breeze with a big bag of rolled sail interfering with the efficiency of the headsail.

Chris 249 said..
With the greatest of respect to those who feel otherwise, I'll go with those who say that going up to the foredeck is not dangerous. Who can tell us the last time that anyone went overboard off a foredeck? When we are racing we run (literally) around them with no issues, and of course when necessary we crawl around them with no issues. As someone has already noted, you can always just lie ahull to stop the boat while changing sails.

You can also rig a downhaul line from the head of the jib, leading to a block at the base of the forestay, so you can pull it down from the cockpit. If the sheet is fairly tight and the boat is close enough to head to wind, the jib will normally fall inside the lifelines.

Personally I've had a racing style headfoil on my boat for (gulp) about 25 years. It's getting beaten up at the bottom but if it goes I'll just put another headfoil on. I find it actually more convenient than hanks because you just have to clip the halyard and tack line on; no playing with pistons. I know SS won't go that way but IMHO it just shows how many different but valid approaches there are.

For bigger boats I'm very impressed with my brother's fractional rig cutter - a roller furling genoa and a hanked on staysail for when it gets windy. Very simple and efficient, and you don't have the problem of trying to get upwind in big breeze with a big bag of rolled sail interfering with the efficiency of the headsail.