Note from the get-go. This post is not intended to argue the virtue of shopping local. Thats been done to death and the result is always the same. I am also not in the market for new sails....

Whilst surfing the net I came across a few old threads questioning the quality of the sails from FES, including one thread on this forum from 2011. Everyone whom went down this road for new sails seemed happy at the time with the service, process and quality of the new sails. As one of the commentators pointed out (I think it was Ramona), anything new would be better than the old baggy sails we all become use to using.

So my question is, 10 years on, how do you now feel about your experience with these sails...

When I sold Ramona the laminated mitrecut headsail was still superb except for the UV strip that needed replacing. If the same cloth is used as the local lofts there is no reason there would be any difference. The sail designer who does the actual designs probably works for the local lofts and the Chinese and Philippine lofts. If there were any short cuts people would not return with their business.

No issues with my 4yo main and jib . Contender cloth . Only small gripe is hank cringles on jib starting to rust.

I bought a FES main in 2011. It did a number of coastal trips and three very tough Lord Howe trips. When I sold the boat two years ago the main was still a very good sail.
I bought a Rolly Tasker furling heady locally in Sydney also in 2011. The furling strip was replaced in 2016 and by 2020 the sail was showing significant wear, but still ok for cruising.

My FES main and headsail and Gennaker were purchased around 2018.
They still look great, no signs of wear. The white sails were noticeably lighter to haul up with the halyards. But I guess this is the difference between my older Hood cross cut sails and the newer tri radial warp cloth style. The sails have done an up and back to the Whitsundays and 4 months sailing around up there, and plenty of local cruising and some racing around the cans on sundays.
I would estimate they have sailed 3000 miles by now. pretty happy.

Cheers Richard

I am in the process of getting a main and furling genoa made by FES.
I had no choice because the last sail maker in Japan closed shop 10 years ago.

Before hitting the "buy" button I did an internet search.
"Far East Sails bad" "Far East Sails fail" "Far East Sails terrible" "Far East Sails not good" "Far East Sails disappointed"
And a couple of others.
I could find a few of the usual posts warning, Buyer beware, Buy local etc, but not one post saying that said the sails were bad or a disappointment.
Will come back and let you know in 10 years.

gary

All cruising sails then!

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MorningBird said..
When I sold the boat two years ago

Has it been that long already

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Toph said..
All cruising sails then!

Certainly not. Check out the Hyde sails webpages. Galatea might be along shortly to show you some of his racing sails.

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Toph said..
All cruising sails then!

MorningBird said..
When I sold the boat two years ago

Has it been that long already

Nearly, April 2020.

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Ramona said..

Certainly not. Check out the Hyde sails webpages. Galatea might be along shortly to show you some of his racing sails.

Sorry Ramona, what I actually meant was everyone so far who have replied in a positive for FES are cruising sailors.

I'm happy to see all these positive reviews for FES. I just placed an order for a new main and Genoa, so am comforted by this thread.

I'm a cruising sailor too, but if I had money to burn on trying to squeeze the last fraction of a knot out of my boat I'd probably be working with a local sail maker who could come out to the boat for a thorough measure and customisation. Maybe that's why most responses have been from cruisers.

Just another blow to Aussie small business

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woko said..
Just another blow to Aussie small business

Thats a bit unfair. Toph asked a specific question. I have no issue with the FES sails . If the question was one of comparing my answer would have been different. I have since bought a genoa from UK Sails Bne. and found Gary extremely helpful . I don't race anymore but am ultra critical of sail trim in all breezes , hell what else is there to do solo sailing . I'm due for a new main and it will be from UK.

UK sails are about the only mob that advertises in Japanese so they have the market here.
My local yard is the agent for UK.
I asked him for a quote before I settled on FES, knowing the UK (Japan) are made in Hong Kong.

From The UK Sail home page
Every sail UK Sailmakers sells is made in a UK Sailmakers loft.
www.uksailmakers.com/sails1?msclkid=cd6b04cfad9711ecbb5a14e746e360b7

From a search of where they are made.
Note this is NOT Australia, This is Canada.
The majority of the sails produced for Toronto are by UK Sailmakers Hong Kong. The largest loft in the UK group, they produce over half the sails sold worldwide. With decades of sailmaking UK Hong Kong has built sails for racers and cruisers all over the world


It would be interesting to know what, "The majority" means.

Gary

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Bananabender said..

woko said..
Just another blow to Aussie small business

Thats a bit unfair. Toph asked a specific question. I have no issue with the FES sails . If the question was one of comparing my answer would have been different. I have since bought a genoa from UK Sails Bne. and found Gary extremely helpful . I don't race anymore but am ultra critical of sail trim in all breezes , hell what else is there to do solo sailing . I'm due for a new main and it will be from UK.

BB I certainly wasn't a shot at you personally. And it makes cents to buy from a supplier that buys cloth by the ream and isn't challenged by wage expenses. My comment was more toward a general attitude towards getting a bargain and the inevitable loss of local skills. Ps Gary pointed UK sails are in Hong Kong, unfortunately for them it's not part of the commonwealth anymore. It might cost double to make it here, it makes jobs here for families here, again I'm not having a go at you, I'm challenging every one to think twice

No worries mate I understood where you were coming from.
Are you saying Gary Saxby sails are made in HK?
btw UK stands for Ulmer Kolius

Hi BB
Are you saying Gary Saxby sails are made in HK?

No way.
UK Sail have local lofts and the main loft is in HK.
From my previous post,
Note this is NOT Australia, This is Canada.


gary

Just to balance the euphoric support for Far East Sails. This is my recent experience

Earlier this year. I had Far East Sails build a Tri Radial Mainsail.
Luff 19.9 metres and Foot 6.4 meters using 11oz CDX Polyester Cruising Laminates in Grey colour. Sail Area 780 m2 The total cost ~ US$6000.

Because the existing main was fairly Roachy and only just cleared the two fixed Back Stays. And because at my location there is absolutely no way to get new Battens. I went to great lengths to explain that the new sail had to be built with attention to the amount of Roach they built in. I gave the exact lengths of the existing battens and the exact distances from the Head to each Batten Holder on the Luff.

I stressed this requirement and they acknowledged receiving the measurements!
(Free hand, without a computer. With the dimensions I provided. A primary school Geometry student could manually plot the correct curve required in the Roach on the floor.)

When I received the Sail. First thing I noticed was that it was White not Grey as specified. Nor was it triple stitched as paid for. The Batten Holders did not fit to the Harken Batten cars despite me having provided photos of the existing Harken Batten Cars. When fitting the Battens. I found they were too long for the Pockets they had made. After cutting about 150mm off each Batten to get it to fit in the pockets and hoisting the Sail. I found the top two Battens fouled the fixed Backstays.

It was as though they had sent me the wrong sail it was just so far wrong! However the sail order number matched.

Looking at the Sail I saw that they had angled the the Batten pockets up as per a Multi Hull sail and the Batten Pockets were not running parallel to the boom. This has moved the Roach up enough to foul the Back Stays. Maybe if they had not angled the Pockets up the Roach would clear.

Because of the TriRadial construction. To fix this problem it is not just a case of hogging a bit off the bottom panel as with a Cross cut build. It appears they just stuck some data into their Computer Model and constructed the output without reviewing it at all.

Communicating with Far East Sails during the order process (I dealt with somebody called Michael) is very slick, but you really need to very carefully read what is being said as a reply. They seem to not answer direct questions but send manufacturers catalog data instead of confirming "yes" or "no" in writing to the direct question you asked.

Do not defer to their expected expertise. Because of the freight costs involved in sending the Sail back to China I am stuck with it.

Select to expand quote

skedaddle said..
Just to balance the euphoric support for Far East Sails. This is my recent experience

Earlier this year. I had Far East Sails build a Tri Radial Mainsail.
Luff 19.9 metres and Foot 6.4 meters using 11oz CDX Polyester Cruising Laminates in Grey colour. Sail Area 780 m2 The total cost ~ US$6000.

Because the existing main was fairly Roachy and only just cleared the two fixed Back Stays. And because at my location there is absolutely no way to get new Battens. I went to great lengths to explain that the new sail had to be built with attention to the amount of Roach they built in. I gave the exact lengths of the existing battens and the exact distances from the Head to each Batten Holder on the Luff.

I stressed this requirement and they acknowledged receiving the measurements!
(Free hand, without a computer. With the dimensions I provided. A primary school Geometry student could manually plot the correct curve required in the Roach on the floor.)

When I received the Sail. First thing I noticed was that it was White not Grey as specified. Nor was it triple stitched as paid for. The Batten Holders did not fit to the Harken Batten cars despite me having provided photos of the existing Harken Batten Cars. When fitting the Battens. I found they were too long for the Pockets they had made. After cutting about 150mm off each Batten to get it to fit in the pockets and hoisting the Sail. I found the top two Battens fouled the fixed Backstays.

It was as though they had sent me the wrong sail it was just so far wrong! However the sail order number matched.

Looking at the Sail I saw that they had angled the the Batten pockets up as per a Multi Hull sail and the Batten Pockets were not running parallel to the boom. This has moved the Roach up enough to foul the Back Stays. Maybe if they had not angled the Pockets up the Roach would clear.

Because of the TriRadial construction. To fix this problem it is not just a case of hogging a bit off the bottom panel as with a Cross cut build. It appears they just stuck some data into their Computer Model and constructed the output without reviewing it at all.

Communicating with Far East Sails during the order process (I dealt with somebody called Michael) is very slick, but you really need to very carefully read what is being said as a reply. They seem to not answer direct questions but send manufacturers catalog data instead of confirming "yes" or "no" in writing to the direct question you asked.

Do not defer to their expected expertise. Because of the freight costs involved in sending the Sail back to China I am stuck with it.

The best way to get the correct sail From Far East sails is to order the sail through one of the Australian sailmakers that have their sails made by FES. The cost will be a little higher and you will have the local sailmakers tag on your sail but the local bloke will be responsible for the correct dimensions.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

skedaddle said..
Just to balance the euphoric support for Far East Sails. This is my recent experience

Earlier this year. I had Far East Sails build a Tri Radial Mainsail.
Luff 19.9 metres and Foot 6.4 meters using 11oz CDX Polyester Cruising Laminates in Grey colour. Sail Area 780 m2 The total cost ~ US$6000.

Because the existing main was fairly Roachy and only just cleared the two fixed Back Stays. And because at my location there is absolutely no way to get new Battens. I went to great lengths to explain that the new sail had to be built with attention to the amount of Roach they built in. I gave the exact lengths of the existing battens and the exact distances from the Head to each Batten Holder on the Luff.

I stressed this requirement and they acknowledged receiving the measurements!
(Free hand, without a computer. With the dimensions I provided. A primary school Geometry student could manually plot the correct curve required in the Roach on the floor.)

When I received the Sail. First thing I noticed was that it was White not Grey as specified. Nor was it triple stitched as paid for. The Batten Holders did not fit to the Harken Batten cars despite me having provided photos of the existing Harken Batten Cars. When fitting the Battens. I found they were too long for the Pockets they had made. After cutting about 150mm off each Batten to get it to fit in the pockets and hoisting the Sail. I found the top two Battens fouled the fixed Backstays.

It was as though they had sent me the wrong sail it was just so far wrong! However the sail order number matched.

Looking at the Sail I saw that they had angled the the Batten pockets up as per a Multi Hull sail and the Batten Pockets were not running parallel to the boom. This has moved the Roach up enough to foul the Back Stays. Maybe if they had not angled the Pockets up the Roach would clear.

Because of the TriRadial construction. To fix this problem it is not just a case of hogging a bit off the bottom panel as with a Cross cut build. It appears they just stuck some data into their Computer Model and constructed the output without reviewing it at all.

Communicating with Far East Sails during the order process (I dealt with somebody called Michael) is very slick, but you really need to very carefully read what is being said as a reply. They seem to not answer direct questions but send manufacturers catalog data instead of confirming "yes" or "no" in writing to the direct question you asked.

Do not defer to their expected expertise. Because of the freight costs involved in sending the Sail back to China I am stuck with it.

The best way to get the correct sail From Far East sails is to order the sail through one of the Australian sailmakers that have their sails made by FES. The cost will be a little higher and you will have the local sailmakers tag on your sail but the local bloke will be responsible for the correct dimensions.

My Rolley Tasker headsail was measured, ordered and delivered by Sam Newton at Woolwich Marina. It was made in Thailand as I remember. Sam did his bit, no manufacturing was done here.
I wouldn't use FES for a complicated sail, to me it just isn't possible to communicate such requirements by email.

The best way to get the correct sail From Far East sails is to order the sail through one of the Australian sailmakers that have their sails made by FES. The cost will be a little higher and you will have the local sailmakers tag on your sail but the local bloke will be responsible for the correct dimensions.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes you are probably correct. However in this case, being stuck here in SE Asia(COVID) there was no local sail maker. I had to deal direct with FES.

Anyway my experience is probably something the local Aust Sail Makers love to hear about.

Select to expand quote

Ramona said..

skedaddle said..
Just to balance the euphoric support for Far East Sails. This is my recent experience

Earlier this year. I had Far East Sails build a Tri Radial Mainsail.
Luff 19.9 metres and Foot 6.4 meters using 11oz CDX Polyester Cruising Laminates in Grey colour. Sail Area 780 m2 The total cost ~ US$6000.

Because the existing main was fairly Roachy and only just cleared the two fixed Back Stays. And because at my location there is absolutely no way to get new Battens. I went to great lengths to explain that the new sail had to be built with attention to the amount of Roach they built in. I gave the exact lengths of the existing battens and the exact distances from the Head to each Batten Holder on the Luff.

I stressed this requirement and they acknowledged receiving the measurements!
(Free hand, without a computer. With the dimensions I provided. A primary school Geometry student could manually plot the correct curve required in the Roach on the floor.)

When I received the Sail. First thing I noticed was that it was White not Grey as specified. Nor was it triple stitched as paid for. The Batten Holders did not fit to the Harken Batten cars despite me having provided photos of the existing Harken Batten Cars. When fitting the Battens. I found they were too long for the Pockets they had made. After cutting about 150mm off each Batten to get it to fit in the pockets and hoisting the Sail. I found the top two Battens fouled the fixed Backstays.

It was as though they had sent me the wrong sail it was just so far wrong! However the sail order number matched.

Looking at the Sail I saw that they had angled the the Batten pockets up as per a Multi Hull sail and the Batten Pockets were not running parallel to the boom. This has moved the Roach up enough to foul the Back Stays. Maybe if they had not angled the Pockets up the Roach would clear.

Because of the TriRadial construction. To fix this problem it is not just a case of hogging a bit off the bottom panel as with a Cross cut build. It appears they just stuck some data into their Computer Model and constructed the output without reviewing it at all.

Communicating with Far East Sails during the order process (I dealt with somebody called Michael) is very slick, but you really need to very carefully read what is being said as a reply. They seem to not answer direct questions but send manufacturers catalog data instead of confirming "yes" or "no" in writing to the direct question you asked.

Do not defer to their expected expertise. Because of the freight costs involved in sending the Sail back to China I am stuck with it.

The best way to get the correct sail From Far East sails is to order the sail through one of the Australian sailmakers that have their sails made by FES. The cost will be a little higher and you will have the local sailmakers tag on your sail but the local bloke will be responsible for the correct dimensions.

FES and a couple of others claim that other sailmakers use them to make their sails, but I have never heard of any that do (and I know a lot of sailmakers personally). FES sails I assume are made somewhere on mainland China???
There are a couple of good sail suppliers of note that use agents and/or supply to design files
Notable Durtek Sails (Quantum loft) In Sri Lanka
Aqua Dynamics in Sri Lanka
Hyde sails in Phillipines ( I am now a rep for them as well as run my own loft)
All these have made sails for my business and have been good to deal with.
There are some others like Wilfer Sails in China who do a fair bit for a few sailmakers but I have no experience and of course Rolly Tasker Sails In Thailand who have agents.
There are plenty of online sailmkers but some of those don't seem to have much sailmaking experience going by their presentation and sample pictures.

Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Select to expand quote

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Select to expand quote

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Interesting considering in general terms the material content is about 30% of sail cost, so if one sail is double the price of another??
Someone is making heaps of margin (middle men?) or someone is cost cutting in the extreme ( 2nds cloth, appalling labour rate etc.). Or maybe a bit of both?
Would be interesting to see the quotes for comparison.

Select to expand quote

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Select to expand quote

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Interesting considering in general terms the material content is about 30% of sail cost, so if one sail is double the price of another??
Someone is making heaps of margin (middle men?) or someone is cost cutting in the extreme ( 2nds cloth, appalling labour rate etc.). Or maybe a bit of both?
Would be interesting to see the quotes for comparison.

Select to expand quote

Galatea said..

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

julesmoto said..
Just out of interest this week Rolly Tasker quoted me AU$3300 for a tri radial 11.7 m Luff high cut yankee style jib and Far East sails quoted me $1,650 US dollars (comparable cloth) delivered which is probably just over $2,300 by the time the bank rips me off on the exchange rate. There is of course also the chance that I will be hit up for GST when it arrives.

Interesting considering in general terms the material content is about 30% of sail cost, so if one sail is double the price of another??
Someone is making heaps of margin (middle men?) or someone is cost cutting in the extreme ( 2nds cloth, appalling labour rate etc.). Or maybe a bit of both?
Would be interesting to see the quotes for comparison.

Quotes attached along with some blurb on the cloth Far East propose using. Hope this helps

Just quickly, thank you. I think we all should be transparent.
FES - In PX20 Lite Skin- this is a racing cloth and I would not reccomend for cruising only, more of a racer/cruiser cloth than a cruiser/race and IMHO not on a 100% cruiser!
The price is in USD, so a quick calculation and allowing for bank fees and GST bumps it up to $2713

Tasker- In Challenge Newport 8.1oz (which is actually a lot cheaper than the PX20 LS!!). Has a foam Luff pad (which the FES does'nt)
at $3264 incl GST

PS- a bit cheeky and self promoting but our price in Dimension MT Voyager (triradial) which I prefer to the Newport. would be $2632 incl GST, foam luff pad and Tenara thread on UV covers (which the others don't mention but is important).

Back to work!

PX 20 with Lite skin- definitely not a cruising option!

From Dimension Website.
PX Sport (PX20 LS is part of the sports range) extends the Lite Skin? range into the growing market of performance cruising boats with large mainsails, non-overlapping headsails and modern rigs. While Lite Skin? is no substitute for the more robust taffeta based cruising styles, Lite Skin? offers an attractive alternative to the keen sailor that wants a performance cruising or club racing sail with a hint of racing heritage.

Bit the bullet and ordered a jib from Far East after a terrible experience with a small OZ sailmaker. Will only use big name brand sailmakers now rather than little guys. The name brands have a reputation to preserve and more likely to supply replacement sail if they stuff it up. Not impressed with having to buy two sails to get one! Let's see how this one goes.

Sorry to hear of your experiences. We have had excellent service from numerous so called "little guys" in Sydney over the years as regards new sails, repairs and modifications. "Little guys" obviously have their reputation to preserve even more than the "mail order" operators, for obvious reasons. Please support your local sailmaker just as you support your local slipway.

I have a beautiful Doyle jib made by Shane at Gladesville. I like talking to the guy who designs the sail. It helps me know that I am getting what I ask for. Also I got really good advice because Shane and I raced against each other and he was able to tell me stuff that was relevant to a guy like me. Good experience.