Hi all
I'm at the (expensive) 10 year mark where I need to replace my rigging. I'm considering synthetic rigging and looking for advice. Has anyone used a rigger in Sydney that deals in synthetic who you have had good work/service from? I always like to go word of mouth before google!

Cheers
Gos

Don't know if he recommnds Dyneema rigging or not but I and a lot of other sea breezers use and recommend Joe Walsh.
Give him a call and have a chat 0410476626 he knows his stuff.
I will be there Monday getting my steering cables replaced.

Would recommend Jason at Diverse Rigging, 0411383994
One of the younger riggers (apprenticeship at SRS) and has the skills and knowledge to recommend if synthetic is a good option.

I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recommend Joe Walsh. We changed our standing rigging on our 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with him last year. We chose Joe as he has a great reputation, and came recommended.

Sadly, it was a total nightmare. He was highly disorganised, took more than 5 months with countless broken promises, and in the end we moved on with a large number of (admittedly minor) issues still unresolved, rather than having to deal with him any longer.

Throughout this process, he was gruff, unpleasant and unwilling to engage in any proper discussion on specific elements of the job whatsoever, resulting in sub-optimal outcomes in many many ways. He also cut many corners, which left us feeling concerned about the quality of workmanship, to the extent that we engaged another rigger to check his work.

I think he's "jumped the shark" - may have been great in his day, but sadly no longer up to the job, in my opinion. He's also the last person I'd ask abut new techniques or material - he's 100% stuck in the past.

The good news is that there were no major issues when we had his work checked, just a long list of minor issues to be resolved (some of which he no doubt would have sorted if we had harassed him for long enough, rather than giving up on him and moving on, but some of which he had been denying were an issue in the first place).

We've since moved on to Jason from Diverse Rigging - he is young, but very customer service orientated, and has been efficient and cost effective so far. I'd start there for sure.

I looked at going with Dyneema standing rigging on my Compass 28 in 2016 but it was going to be 20% more than stainless so couldn't justify the cost.I used Mario Ruel in Bayview. He was excellent to deal with.

Select to expand quote

SteelSapphire said..
I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recommend Joe Walsh. We changed our standing rigging on our 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with him last year. We chose Joe as he has a great reputation, and came recommended.

Sadly, it was a total nightmare. He was highly disorganised, took more than 5 months with countless broken promises, and in the end we moved on with a large number of (admittedly minor) issues still unresolved, rather than having to deal with him any longer.

Throughout this process, he was gruff, unpleasant and unwilling to engage in any proper discussion on specific elements of the job whatsoever, resulting in sub-optimal outcomes in many many ways. He also cut many corners, which left us feeling concerned about the quality of workmanship, to the extent that we engaged another rigger to check his work.

I think he's "jumped the shark" - may have been great in his day, but sadly no longer up to the job, in my opinion. He's also the last person I'd ask abut new techniques or material - he's 100% stuck in the past.

The good news is that there were no major issues when we had his work checked, just a long list of minor issues to be resolved (some of which he no doubt would have sorted if we had harassed him for long enough, rather than giving up on him and moving on, but some of which he had been denying were an issue in the first place).

We've since moved on to Jason from Diverse Rigging - he is young, but very customer service orientated, and has been efficient and cost effective so far. I'd start there for sure.

Maybe it might be you or it might be me but I have never had an issue with him can only say as I have found him.

I've had 3 boats done with Joe and getting work done on a 4th now. I strayed to another rigger and it was a complete disaster and now I haeve engaged Joe to fix up the work or lack of work from my mistake of trying someone else. He has always been extremely helpful and knowledgeable when I have dealt with him. I guess it comes back to Quality, Speed, Price you can only pick two and he does good work at a reasonable price compared to other quotes from my experience. If you want a job done with him give at least a couple of months and leave him to his devices.

Select to expand quote

SteelSapphire said..
I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recommend Joe Walsh. We changed our standing rigging on our 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with him last year. We chose Joe as he has a great reputation, and came recommended.

Sadly, it was a total nightmare. He was highly disorganised, took more than 5 months with countless broken promises, and in the end we moved on with a large number of (admittedly minor) issues still unresolved, rather than having to deal with him any longer.

Throughout this process, he was gruff, unpleasant and unwilling to engage in any proper discussion on specific elements of the job whatsoever, resulting in sub-optimal outcomes in many many ways. He also cut many corners, which left us feeling concerned about the quality of workmanship, to the extent that we engaged another rigger to check his work.

I think he's "jumped the shark" - may have been great in his day, but sadly no longer up to the job, in my opinion. He's also the last person I'd ask abut new techniques or material - he's 100% stuck in the past.

The good news is that there were no major issues when we had his work checked, just a long list of minor issues to be resolved (some of which he no doubt would have sorted if we had harassed him for long enough, rather than giving up on him and moving on, but some of which he had been denying were an issue in the first place).

We've since moved on to Jason from Diverse Rigging - he is young, but very customer service orientated, and has been efficient and cost effective so far. I'd start there for sure.

Sadly #2. A good mate with a Hutton 25 at Gladesville got it re-rigged there and the new shrouds were put back in the wrong place. My mate tried to get it fixed but complained to me every time he called them he got "not interested" "too busy" "too busy" and eventually gave up.

I got my Martzcraft done by Colin Beashel in Pittwater, he did a good job too. But from the time I asked them to do the job till they started was 2 or 3 months!

Select to expand quote

twodogs1969 said..

SteelSapphire said..
I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recommend Joe Walsh. We changed our standing rigging on our 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with him last year. We chose Joe as he has a great reputation, and came recommended.

Sadly, it was a total nightmare. He was highly disorganised, took more than 5 months with countless broken promises, and in the end we moved on with a large number of (admittedly minor) issues still unresolved, rather than having to deal with him any longer.

Throughout this process, he was gruff, unpleasant and unwilling to engage in any proper discussion on specific elements of the job whatsoever, resulting in sub-optimal outcomes in many many ways. He also cut many corners, which left us feeling concerned about the quality of workmanship, to the extent that we engaged another rigger to check his work.

I think he's "jumped the shark" - may have been great in his day, but sadly no longer up to the job, in my opinion. He's also the last person I'd ask abut new techniques or material - he's 100% stuck in the past.

The good news is that there were no major issues when we had his work checked, just a long list of minor issues to be resolved (some of which he no doubt would have sorted if we had harassed him for long enough, rather than giving up on him and moving on, but some of which he had been denying were an issue in the first place).

We've since moved on to Jason from Diverse Rigging - he is young, but very customer service orientated, and has been efficient and cost effective so far. I'd start there for sure.

Maybe it might be you or it might be me but I have never had an issue with him can only say as I have found him.

Yeah, that's the frustrating thing. I've met plenty of people with positive things to say too, both before and after our nightmare. I suspect our job was just too big for him to take on - there's a big difference in scale between re-rigging a 25 foot sloop, and a 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with keel stepped masts, and while I don't think there's anything intrinsically different from a technical point of view, I just think the job got away from him. Doubtless he's handled as big/bigger jobs in the past, but the key phrase there is in the "past".

Select to expand quote

David88 said..
I've had 3 boats done with Joe and getting work done on a 4th now. I strayed to another rigger and it was a complete disaster and now I haeve engaged Joe to fix up the work or lack of work from my mistake of trying someone else. He has always been extremely helpful and knowledgeable when I have dealt with him. I guess it comes back to Quality, Speed, Price you can only pick two and he does good work at a reasonable price compared to other quotes from my experience. If you want a job done with him give at least a couple of months and leave him to his devices.

Yup, i'm a big exponent of "Good/Fast/Cheap - pick two". And I chose Joe based on quality and price, knowing that it would take time. But we booked the job 6 months before it started, and gave him a fixed deadline of 5 months after the job started. That's heaps of time. We were based at the marina, and walked past him every day, making a point not to hassle him until we got into the final month and our masts still weren't in (fully 4 months after they came out). We were the biggest job he had during that entire year, and he was fitting our job in around the myriad of small jobs, rather than the other way around. and still refusing to engage with any of the important ancillary elements (eg HF arial, Mast Boot, Replacement wiring etc etc etc) - he just stuck the mast back in without tackling any of those things (that can only be handled while the mast is out of the boat. That's taking the piss.

I think when you're spending $40k with someone you're entitled to a lot more than we got.

Your results may vary, but can only comment on our experience.

When l was looking for a rigger early last year l checked Walsh out personally and l had a good look at two recently finished jobs (the jobs were far from finished !) by him and all alarms went off the charts: NONONO!
I am glad l did not engage him as l heard more horror stories about his workmanship since.
He was far the cheapest by a good margin but still, l am glad l did not give him the job.

(Now l have to fight another bloody rigger! )

Fair enough I can only really comment on my experience. I am sure anyone would be better than my recent experience with a rigger around middle harbour with the initials D.J , asking around there seems to be a list a mile long of people chasing him down.

Back on topic.....dyneema standing rigging
Just did an S&S 34 new double spreader mast with it and here is my thoughts....
- the materials will set you back 20-40% more than re-rigging in s/s depending on what fittings you can re-use
- if you are getting a rigger to do all the splicing, add another 20% as it's far more time consuming than s/s
- you will get about the same lifespan out of the dyneema but you will only have to replace the dyneema so it becomes cheaper
- use turnbuckles (well lubricated) and lashing as the rigging will stretch more than the turnbuckles will handle
- set up a stretch system to pre-stretch before putting on the boat. A couple of trees and an endless chain works well.
- if you have a furler you will have to keep a s/s forestay

Personally unless your loaded I wouldn't pay someone to do it. The beauty of dyneema is it's easy to splice so you can save alot of time with DIY.

If you want more advice on doing it yourself and pricing on the gear to do it, email me on ben@almasts.com and i can give you heaps more info!

Mario Ruel did a full re rig for our boat and installed a dyneema backstay as part of the job. Great guy, efficient and good work.

Select to expand quote

2bish said..
Mario Ruel did a full re rig for our boat and installed a dyneema backstay as part of the job. Great guy, efficient and good work.

Dyneema backstay is the easy one!! No chafe to worry About, length do esnt have to be spot on due to purchase system and it's usually pretty easy to attach to the masthead.

You can pull your rigging yourself. I took the stays off our boat one at a time and then to the rigger when they had a bit of time. Then back to the boat an hour later and the new stay on. Saved about 50% of the price for the rigger to do the whole job. You can even get it better and run a really accurate tape measure over the stays and get the whole shebang swaged at once. Then you replace the stays at your leisure. Just wait for a nice calm day. It is good form to know what goes on up there.

You need someone who can go up the mast and the ability to tie off some halyards and topping lift supports. It is just clevis pins and split pins, not rocket science. I have an inner forestay so that held the rig forward.

I have Dux on my trailer sailer. Easy to do and fun as well. I wouldn't do it for a mono with a tight rig yet. The special splices take up a fair bit when first stressed. Stainless is still easier. Great for a back up stay though if one fails when cruising.

cheers

Phil

Select to expand quote

SteelSapphire said..
I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recommend Joe Walsh. We changed our standing rigging on our 50 foot cutter rigged ketch with him last year. We chose Joe as he has a great reputation, and came recommended.

Sadly, it was a total nightmare. He was highly disorganised, took more than 5 months with countless broken promises, and in the end we moved on with a large number of (admittedly minor) issues still unresolved, rather than having to deal with him any longer.

Throughout this process, he was gruff, unpleasant and unwilling to engage in any proper discussion on specific elements of the job whatsoever, resulting in sub-optimal outcomes in many many ways. He also cut many corners, which left us feeling concerned about the quality of workmanship, to the extent that we engaged another rigger to check his work.

I think he's "jumped the shark" - may have been great in his day, but sadly no longer up to the job, in my opinion. He's also the last person I'd ask abut new techniques or material - he's 100% stuck in the past.

The good news is that there were no major issues when we had his work checked, just a long list of minor issues to be resolved (some of which he no doubt would have sorted if we had harassed him for long enough, rather than giving up on him and moving on, but some of which he had been denying were an issue in the first place).

We've since moved on to Jason from Diverse Rigging - he is young, but very customer service orientated, and has been efficient and cost effective so far. I'd start there for sure.

+100. I had a very bad experience with him too. He took the mast out but didn't put the new rigging in or put the mast back, so I ended up doing it myself. A fortnight ago I was chatting to someone else who had the same experience.

Select to expand quote

Gos2017 said..
Hi all
I'm at the (expensive) 10 year mark where I need to replace my rigging. I'm considering synthetic rigging and looking for advice. Has anyone used a rigger in Sydney that deals in synthetic who you have had good work/service from? I always like to go word of mouth before google!

Cheers
Gos

Just had a look at your profile pic, does your boat have discountinous rigging? If so dyneema really isn't a good option.

Hi all
Wow...stirred up a bit of a hornets nest there but that's the benefit of a forum full of real life experience. Did a little more digging and yes, going synthetic is not as cheap and easy as it is made out to be. Spoke to Jason at Diverse rigging who put my mind at ease in regards to some of the crap stainless coming in from China.
Looks like I'm back in the stainless camp, now to get a few quotes. Thanks all for the feedback.
BTW, I have also dealt with Mario Ruel in Pittwater some years back and found him very knowledgeable and helpful.

Cheers
Gos

On a ship of yours galvanised steel would not be out of place.
It would be cheaper and more user friendly to maintain and repair.
I know, this thought is orthodox this day and age of shiny s/s and oh so modern dynema, spectra and carbon fibre but your yacht is not a space age boat either.
I would seriously consider the galvanised steel option.

Select to expand quote

sirgallivant said..
On a ship of yours galvanised steel would not be out of place.
It would be cheaper and more user friendly to maintain and repair.
I know, this thought is orthodox this day and age of shiny s/s and oh so modern dynema, spectra and carbon fibre but your yacht is not a space age boat either.
I would seriously consider the galvanised steel option.

On a boat not designed for it, it actually wouldn't be alot cheaper than s/s as you would have to custom make fittings.
Also a forestay under a furler has to be s/s

Just to go back to the actually topic: dyneema rigging; When I was still based in Cairns (now Brisbane) I had my rig overhauled by Peter Greig in Port Douglas. He was happy to let me do a lot of the fitting and paint work and he spliced my dux standing rigging. I am really happy with it. There was some stretch, but the turnbuckles could easily handle that. I would recommend Peter any time. Price was about 20% more than stainless steel. Also, not sure what an insurance company would say if you spliced it yourself?

Just saw this set up on Morning Star today on the Tamar. Looks very clean.





Sorry about the sideways photos
A

We need HG to straighten 'em up.

Fixed it for ya!

(With apologies to HG and best wishes from us all.)

As to splicing - it is pretty easy and almost impossible to get wrong. The splice is a Brummel splice which can't come undone, it locks positively - more than any other splice.

Select to expand quote

Andrew68 said..
Just saw this set up on Morning Star today on the Tamar. Looks very clean.





Sorry about the sideways photos
A

Yeah I did all that splicing!!

Sorry to bring up an old thread but looks like I just got a job to re-rig a lovely 50ft ketch with Dynex Dux.

Will still have SS forestay under one of Reefit model C furlers.

We are making up some anodized alloy thimbles with cross bars and corresponding fittings to go on top of the turnbuckles fo accommodate lashing.
Chafe guard will be 2mm dyneema wrapped around the stays as it will look more traditional than chafe sleeving.
Will end up about 40% more than SS but a fair bit of that is in the anodized alloy parts that will all be reusable with the next re-rig.
Will post progress pics when we go ahead

new 28 foot boat we launched friday rigged sk75 bronze deadeyes bronze chainplates even with all the bronze work still cheaper than ss and no chaff on the varnish when rigging

That is a beautiful looking boat Boty, I would be quite proud to have built that.