I am at a loss to understand why maps cost so much, having said that, I am in the market for East Coast maps

Lexmark,

If you have a GPS/chartplotter with charts in it you only require the larger scale charts
such as Port Jackson to Tweed [or there abouts, for example].
Even so its nice to have a chart of the area you may cruise in, such as the Whitsundays.

Have a look on Boatbooks or similar.

You will find that the cost will come down even if they are $35 each.

Thanks,
Yes have a new Raymarine Chartplotter and a Hummingbird, but if they go belly-up would like to have paper maps as a back up, may be I am a bit of a worry wort ??

I can tell you, large scale charts are completely useless.
I borrowed a few a few different scales, didn't bothered even to scanned.
GPS plotter with with build in AUS charts / I have Garmin 550 /.
And Lucas books, a perfect combination.

Thanks
You may be right, have purchased East Coast from Lucas but as yet have not received it, may be that will do ?

Navionics downloaded onto your GPS enabled Android tablet, iPad or Smart Phone for $13.99 is the bargain of the decade with full charting of Australia and New Zealand. It is what we used most on our recent trip up from Lake Macquarie to Bundaberg.

We did have a full set of paper charts on board but at night the Navionics worked a treat for us.

The second bargain of the decade is "Quick Charts". If you can have a laptop aboard with a USB puck GPS with Quick Charts loaded, you will have all the AUS charts for about $300.

Another good deal is the Lowrance Elite 7 inch plotter/sounder with all Aus charts for $900 odd. Check Whitworths and BIAS. It is a run out model and therefore is being heavily discounted.

Lucas' books are OK but expensive. The only one I would refer to is his NSW coast book but it is not right up to date.

There are better books for the Queensland coast such as Noel Patrick's "Cruising the Curtis Coast" for Bundaberg to Mackay.

Lucas left Sydney on his first yacht, a 30 foot steely with a road map. He has made himself a multi millionaire out of his "cruising guides".

Anybody can put a piece of tracing paper over a chart, copy it and add a few notes based on local experience.

If you have never hit the bottom, you haven't really been sailing.

Plenty of Navionics info here this morning.

forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/navionics.395179/

Can you buy a chart book?

Lexmark.
Before I left Newcastle I purchased
AUS 810
AUS 811
AUS 812
AUS 813
AUS 814
AUS 815
AUS 816
I paid around $35 each and i did not need to use them as I have a Raymarine Plotter and a PC running Nobeltec time zero
I also have a copy of Cruising the NSW coast which I bought then found out one was on the boat when I picked her up.
If you would like to make me an offer I would be more than happy to pass them on at a heavily discounted price.
That said if you have electronic back up and you are coastal cruising you probably wont need them. If you do use paper charts then I suggest a good quality hand held GPS and plenty of spare batteries.

Cisco if you're going to give advice about cruising guides and bad mouth the author, first make sure you know what you are talking about. Alan Lucas book ' Cruising the NSW Coast ' is now in it's 6th edition and is as updated as you can get. Cruising the Coral Coast is in its 9th edition, is fully revised and was released in April 2014.
I don't know what you seem to have against him but to imply that he puts a bit of tracing paper over a chart, copies it and throws in a few notes is insulting and you should be ashamed of yourself for slandering one of Australias most respected cruising yachtsman. And as for being a multi millionaire you must be joking. He's nowhere near being wealthy let alone a millionaire. His books are expensive? People pay up to that and more for a one off novel. These are books are written by someone with a lifetime at sea and filled with knowledge and detailed information gleaned from first hand experience. They are books that will serve you well for years of cruising the East Coast. As well as having had a Masters ticket and spending several years sailing the world he has personaly explored every port listed in his books, and if he hasn't he says so. As for better books that's just your opinion and on this matter that's not looking too flash.

I agree with Kemosabe. You are way too harsh Cisco. Lucas' books are a fantastic help cruising our coast. If you know more than him, why haven't you put a cruising guide together? If you don't know more you should shut that critical potty mouth of yours. Envy is your problem, no one else's, so deal with it internally. If you hit bottom AGAIN in your new boat, maybe you should get a copy of all of Lucas' guides, read them and with an open mind learn something!!!! You come across as a pompous arsehole.
TMHO

"Security" "security" "all ships" gale warning

In defence of Cisco I would have to say that Lucas's guide to NSW is just that, a guide. It is no where near correct in my area but it is simply because he does not get a chance to go everywhere! We also all see different things in places. Things change. I sent off changes to his wife who thanked me for the updates. His opinions are always worth a read though.

I agree with you Ramona, in fact I would go as far as saying that they are all guides..... even charts...

The only thing you can rely on are your mark 1 eye balls and a sounding lead.

Before you all go off on that, I do carry a sounding lead and have used it on few occasions.
Nothing like reading off the actual depth in real time.

I also think that Lucus may have used a sounding lead on some of his chartlets, a real effort in the earlier editions of his GUIDES!

Re Lucas' guide book, Patrick's guide book or anybody else's guide book. No body is going to convince me that all of these guys actually re-charted the locations of the maps they have in their books.

They have to have started with a base map of one kind or another (official chart or topographic map, arial photograph, you name it) and then added their own observations to it.

I am not criticizing that, rather I am applauding it. These guides can be very helpful and as one uses them he can add his own notes and updates based on personal experience.

I said Lucas' NSW Guide was not entirely up to date. Example:- We had a fairly late edition which showed the lead into Port Macquarie as being transit leads. The lead is now a red/white/green sector light. Also see Ramona's comment about his area.

Therefore what I said about his guide not being right up to date is valid and FACT.

Lucas left Sydney on his first yacht, a 30 foot steely with a road map. This is also FACT. Ask him.

If he is not at least a millionaire, he should be based on the price and number of his books. Maybe he is not as good a financial manager as he is sailor.

Sorry if I burst anybodies paradigm bubble here.

Well a big thanks to all, I have ordered Lucas Book on the coast and have 2 chart plotters and a lap top, but have decided that maps ( Thanks to all advise) are not needed, again thanks for all advise

I would like to add to Alan Lucas' credibility. I have used every one of Alan's pilot books including Indian Ocean and Red Sea.

My travels started donkey's years ago and I always check if Alan has published on my proposed passages. Sure, I've had moments of disagreement but nothing that good seamanship didn't put right.

To add to Ramona and Cisco comments, Navionics also has leads into Port Macquarie rather than the sector light. With the background lights and late at night this proved a bit confusing. We spoke to MRS who advised of the sector light having replaced the leads.
We had numerous electronic aids between three of us but even then with lack of chargers and constant use we sometimes were short of ones to use. Paper charts don't go flat. You might never need them but a few hundred dollars worth are cheap insurance.

You could also look at Crawfords Mariners Atlas. For $80, it is compendium of Charts between Jervis bay and Ports Stephens including closed waters in between.
It'is a pity they do not cover other areas of the coast in similar book format

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dcr said..

You could also look at Crawfords Mariners Atlas. For $80, it is compendium of Charts between Jervis bay and Ports Stephens including closed waters in between.
It'is a pity they do not cover other areas of the coast in similar book format

That would be a interesting book DCR

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HG02 said..

dcr said..

You could also look at Crawfords Mariners Atlas. For $80, it is compendium of Charts between Jervis bay and Ports Stephens including closed waters in between.
It'is a pity they do not cover other areas of the coast in similar book format

That would be a interesting book DCR

None of these publications relieves you of the responsibility to have the correct paper charts on board as well as any other navigational device you may have.

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LooseChange said..

None of these publications relieves you of the resposibility to have the correct paper charts on board as well as any other navigational device you may have.

Precisely my point.

Try bringing up the defence in a Marine Incident Tribunal or Court, "Well Sir, I was following the directions in Lucas' guide to the letter." and see how far it gets you.

Lexmark, you should rethink your decision not to carry charts.

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MorningBird said..

To add to Ramona and Cisco comments, Navionics also has leads into Port Macquarie rather than the sector light. With the background lights and late at night this proved a bit confusing. We spoke to MRS who advised of the sector light having replaced the leads.
We had numerous electronic aids between three of us but even then with lack of chargers and constant use we sometimes were short of ones to use. Paper charts don't go flat. You might never need them but a few hundred dollars worth are cheap insurance.

We went past a couple of times looking for the leads didn't we before we got the correct info from Marine Rescue and Lucas' book clearly showed transit leads. The chart we had probably showed transit leads too.

No doubt you have your Lucas book out now MorningBird and are making a note in it that the lead is now a sector light.

While on the subject, I will be contacting Coast Guard Tin Can Bay to find out what the story is with the back lead on Inskip Point. If it needs somebody to go there and chainsaw the trees from around it, I will volunteer to do it if our broke Qld Government can't afford to do it because of 15 years of Labor Government.

One thing to be sure, my question has brought up a big response, and I guess thats good for all. Thanks

If your in survey you are required to carry paper charts of your area of operation. On my fishing vessel I had one in a frame in the cabin near the switch board. One paper chart of the East coast would suffice.
I'm a fan and long time Seaclear user and therefore a fan of electronic charts. For NSW the MSB charts available free in PDF form can easily be sized and calibrated for use. These seem to be the most accurate I have come across, even in harbour and up rivers.

Cisco, no need to amend the Port Macquarie notes. I won't forget that sector light too soon. None of us had been into Port Macquarie previously and my Garmin chartplotter, all our Navionics and Lucas said there were leads. When we couldn't see the leads after a few passes and called MRS I was surprised that they were quite blase, as if everybody knew the lights had been changed.

It is simply good seamanship to carry paper charts for the area you intend to be in. It doesn't mean you will ever use them but I don't know too many experienced cruising sailors who don't carry them. It is usually those lacking experience, who haven't been caught out once or twice, that rely solely on their electronics. Like having a second anchor and rode or spare fuel filters, carrying charts is just something you do.

This from the RMS Website;

Hastings River, Port Macquarie
UPGRADE TO NAVIGATION AID
March 2013


Roads and Maritime Services (RMS) advises that alternative navigation aids have been installed at the entrance to the Hastings River at Port Macquarie. This includes the installation of an upgraded back board and a green, white, red sector light on the former front lead structure on the southern breakwall.

The upgraded light and structure replaces the former front lead light and day shape (K2790 in Admiralty List of Lights and Fog Signals Volume K, and located at 31o 25?.6S, 152o 54?.9E). The former rear lead light and structure was previously removed.

The new installation consists of a rectangular day shape (red with a white vertical stripe) at a height of approximately 10 metres.

At night, the new sector light shows a green light over the arc from 239oT to 244oT, a white light from 244oT to 249oT, and a red light from 249oT to 269oT. (All bearings are from seaward.) Characteristics of the light are Occulting 4 seconds (3 seconds on; 1 second off).

Vessel operators are advised that the recommended approach under good conditions into the Hastings River is with the new sector light and day shape bearing approximately 247oT (234oM) (from seaward). Vessel operators should be aware that this is subject to change dependent on natural, swell and tidal conditions on the coastal bar, and they should adjust any approach by taking into account such conditions at the time of any given crossing.

All vessel operators and particularly those without local knowledge are urged to exercise caution when attempting to cross the Hastings River Bar at Port Macquarie.
MAPS AND CHARTS AFFECTED

RMS Boating Map ? 5A
Aus 219 ? Plans in New South Wales (Sheet 2)
Aus 811 ? Crowdy Head to Nambucca Heads

As seen above the date is March 2013 when the change happened and the new map for the Hastings River from June 2013 reflects those changes.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

We had no intention of entering Port Macquarie until we were at the entrance at midnight or whenever it was. Looking up the RMS website didn't occur to me, I must admit I assumed that a just updated Navionics and Garmin would have such changes.

As an aside, at one point crossing the Wide Bay bar my iPhone Navionics stopped, just froze, and I had to turn the phone off to reboot it. Navionics on an iphone4 isn't necessarily a reliable navigation tool.

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LooseChange said..

As seen above the date is March 2013 when the change happened and the new map for the Hastings River from June 2013 reflects those changes.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

Excellent charts aren't they? Plenty of Lat and Log lines to calibrate. Use a picture programme of your choice to make the size chart you need. The silly warnings are annoying but you can remove them. These charts are extremely accurate compared to Admiralty charts especially inshore and rivers. Not surprisingly its the charts the MSB use to place markers etc. Park your boat alongside a channel marker then check the chart, you will find they are spot on. Look at an Admiralty chart and in my case the boat is often 50 metres into the scrub!

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Ramona said..

LooseChange said..

As seen above the date is March 2013 when the change happened and the new map for the Hastings River from June 2013 reflects those changes.

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

Excellent charts aren't they? Plenty of Lat and Log lines to calibrate. Use a picture programme of your choice to make the size chart you need. The silly warnings are annoying but you can remove them. These charts are extremely accurate compared to Admiralty charts especially inshore and rivers. Not surprisingly its the charts the MSB use to place markers etc. Park your boat alongside a channel marker then check the chart, you will find they are spot on. Look at an Admiralty chart and in my case the boat is often 50 metres into the scrub!

They are indeed excellent charts and I too can vouch for their accuracy. While Ramona uses Seaclear, I use Aussie Explorer for the same purposes.