After Ballina the Port Macquarie entrance is one of the worst north of Sydney in NSW.

At the moment there is only one cruising yacht in there and I know from Skipr that he is visiting family.

But in contrast over the last two weeks we have had over a dozen yachts through the Camden Haven.

Much better safer etc. So why do people even try to get into Port??

Funny thing is the local council wants to make Port a "cruising hub".
They should put those plans into place at the Camden Haven.

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dcr said..

You could also look at Crawfords Mariners Atlas. For $80, it is compendium of Charts between Jervis bay and Ports Stephens including closed waters in between.
It'is a pity they do not cover other areas of the coast in similar book format

Sometime ago before I had a GPS, I plotted a course to steer out of Wollongong to Pt Stephens prior to our departure.
Not long out,the fog closed in real quick and with no visibility, simply followed my CTS we almost piled up on the rocks.
We could hear breaking surf and made a quick exit to head east immediately.I would not recommend using the Crawfords for navigation as some of the reproduced charts are not absolutely accurate compared to the Admiralty charts. On return I cross checked our course and overlaid an admiralty chart and there was quite a discrepancy between the two.
This was also confirmed by another sailor who had a similar incident.

C.R.

I think the definition of what is acceptable is in the title "Crawfords Mariners ATLAS", not Crawfords Mariners CHARTS.

I recall many years a bloke building himself a boat and sailing the pacific and his nav equipment was his watch, his old school atlas and a ruler, plus I assume a sextant to use in conjunction with his watch. He was lucky or arsey, but I'll go with both. lucky AND arsey.

I was in contact with the publishers of Crawfords last year about the missing editions.

They said they have made nothing from the last print run and will NOT be publishing the missing editions or doing any more reprints.

So if you have a Crawfords, it's the latest and the won't be any more, unless somebody else buy the rights.

Maps are slightly different than charts!

Charts need longitude and lat to navigate with......using a GPS,sextant or time a piece.

Maps can be used with land or water marks and are only used as a guide.

Not to many guides like Alan Lucas or beacon to beacon actually have lats and longs.....if I was doing a passage away from Aussie shore including bass strait or the great Aussie bight I would be happy to plot on a paper chart other than that I'm not that worried unless the vessel is commercial or the law states I need paper charts.....after 1000 nm in 5 years I have never been boarded and asked to show my charts of the area I'm doing a passage in..... Electronic charts to my understanding are actually far more superior to the old paper charts.

Just as a point of interest since I asked "Cost of Maps" and CISCOs input there has been 1656 reads and 64 replies :)

It's ok im sure since your a ex crayfisho you would be highly capable of using a chart but most properly brought up with maps and bommie mud maps! I have some old charts....one is fountain pen by Captain Cook its only half of Australia and the other is from Sir Joseph banks ! They would most properly still work but I would recommend a bow man with a lead line just incase some cross track error accrued!

Careful Southace,

What you may not know is that Cook put NZ 3/4 nm to the east, maybe he did the same here?

Mmmm, just noticed your other post, been boarded twice but never asked for charts yet.
I suppose we all won't need then until we are involved in a court case.

Now I'm completely lost! Just as well I can trust my pilot in his dash 8 and mud map to get me to me next work place! I really hope he don't need to get the charts and sextant out for navigation! Imagine opening the window and trying to get a fix! That's the way they they did it 70 years ago!

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nswsailor said..

Careful Southace,

What you may not know is that Cook put NZ 3/4 nm to the east, maybe he did the same here?

Mmmm, just noticed your other post, been boarded twice but never asked for charts yet.
I suppose we all won't need then until there is a court case.

Well your honour I did have a chart but it blew away in the storm....!

Most sailors that end up wrecked on the reef are rather asleep at the time,dragged anchor,loss of engine....or have no idea! But seriously I do like to look and study charts!

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nswsailor said..

Careful Southace,

What you may not know is that Cook put NZ 3/4 nm to the east, maybe he did the same here?

Mmmm, just noticed your other post, been boarded twice but never asked for charts yet.
I suppose we all won't need then until we are involved in a court case.

Just so you know there are power cables holding both NZ Island together I'm not to sure which Island floats away if there cut

Trust me there are power cables in most harbours and city's you should see that on your old charts don't anchor! Yeah right!

A few g.p.s. chartplotter units I have used state in the preamble BEFORE you hit the accept or enter button, that the unit is an AID to navigation and should not be soley relied upon. I guess that is their "get out of jail" if YOU totally screw up and run aground.

This from the N.S.W. Roads and Maritime site;

Compass and chart

Any boat being operated offshore is required to have a compass. Even if your boat is fitted with satellite navigation equipment, a good marine compass will indicate the course back to shore if the electronic equipment fails, or rain, fog or sea haze obliterates the land from view.

An appropriate chart or map that identifies prominent shore marks and offshore reefs and shoals is also required on all vessels offshore. Charts and maps help to determine your position, which can be of particular importance in an emergency.

GPS (Global Positioning System) receivers are becoming increasingly popular as a navigation aid but should never be relied on as the sole source of information regarding your position and course. Always carry a chart and check your position visually, and never navigate solely on the basis of the GPS at speed or at night.

Boating maps are available from Roads and Maritime Services offices and service centres or from the RMS website.

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HG02 said..

nswsailor said..

Careful Southace,

What you may not know is that Cook put NZ 3/4 nm to the east, maybe he did the same here?

Mmmm, just noticed your other post, been boarded twice but never asked for charts yet.
I suppose we all won't need then until we are involved in a court case.

Just so you know there are power cables holding both NZ Island together I'm not to sure which Island floats away if there cut

North Island Mate, as an ex Mainlander all Kiwis' know that!

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DrRog said..

... at $7 per map! Anyone seen these? Any good?

https://online.maritime.nsw.gov.au/store/

Looking at the names of the maps it seems that these are the same maps you can download from the RMS web site. Possibly these are of a nicer quality and without all the extraneous crap, thus making them more user friendly.

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LooseChange said..

DrRog said..

... at $7 per map! Anyone seen these? Any good?

https://online.maritime.nsw.gov.au/store/

Looking at the names of the maps it seems that these are the same maps you can download from the RMS web site. Possibly these are of a nicer quality and without all the extraneous crap, thus making them more user friendly.

Yep same charts but plastic coated [the ones I have seen] don't have the moisture altering ability of Admiralty charts and there is no need to alter them for electronic use either that the Admiralty charts require. The free electronic versions have the advantage that they can be zoomed out to extreme amounts and be still be very sharp images.
The plastic charts are ideal for meeting the legal requirement in NSW to carry a chart. I have a folder of charts I printed out from my electronic ones I keep in my nav table. Handy to print out copies of chartlets that you can make notes on when traveling.

If you have a vessel in survey you will usually be asked to produce a chart of the local area during your annual inspection.

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nswsailor said..

DrRog said..

... at $7 per map! Anyone seen these? Any good?

https://online.maritime.nsw.gov.au/store/

Mainly for use inside rivers and bays [Sydney etc] not much use for cruising unless you don't have a chartplotter.

Coastal maps here;

https://online.maritime.nsw.gov.au/store/Default.aspx?page=0&categoryId=16aa1127-3673-4667-9bfd-34b2e9261e68

Safety equipment TO be carried onboard;

www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/sbh/safety_equipment/safety_equipment.html

11th item down. I haven't tried these except for the Lake Macquaire charts, and inside passage Gold Coast to Brisbane.
I usually buy the larger AUS *** paper charts as the numbers are stipulated in notice of race, ie. Sail Port Stephens or Inner Spring Regatta at Newcastle, not sure if they can be supplemented by the R.M.S. ones.
But as some form of chart / map other than electronic is to be carried aboard, kudos to the govt. department putting out a cheaper acceptable version for the general boating public.

Interesting article for those interested in electronic navigation. Of course the problem is not just the source of the electronic chart but those who interpolate!

www.stripes.com/news/poor-leadership-planning-led-to-uss-guardian-hitting-reef-near-philippines-report-finds-1.226746


'USS Guardian, a U.S. Navy minesweeper en route to Indonesia, ran aground on the Tubattaha Reef on Jan. 17 2013, and it looks like a digital chart used for navigation has been a significant contributing factor to the mishap.

Noteworthy, according to Navy Times: ?as of Jan. 18 2013, Navy ships have been directed to ?operate with caution? when using similar electronic charts and compare the map data with paper charts, which are considered accurate.?

While the investigation will determine all the contributing factor to the incident, the preliminary analysis indicates that the reef was misplace as a result ?from incorrect geographic rectification of satellite imagery used to built? the type of Digital Nautical Charts (DNC) used by the minesweeper and most USN ships.

Hence, not an epic fail as that of Apple Maps, but possibly more dangerous.

All the source data for nautical charts will be reviewed.

In the meanwhile old paper charts will guide U.S. warships through the world?s troubled waters.'

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Ramona said...
Interesting article for those interested in electronic navigation. Of course the problem is not just the source of the electronic chart but those who interpolate!

www.stripes.com/news/poor-leadership-planning-led-to-uss-guardian-hitting-reef-near-philippines-report-finds-1.226746


'USS Guardian, a U.S. Navy minesweeper en route to Indonesia, ran aground on the Tubattaha Reef on Jan. 17 2013, and it looks like a digital chart used for navigation has been a significant contributing factor to the mishap.

Noteworthy, according to Navy Times: ?as of Jan. 18 2013, Navy ships have been directed to ?operate with caution? when using similar electronic charts and compare the map data with paper charts, which are considered accurate.?

While the investigation will determine all the contributing factor to the incident, the preliminary analysis indicates that the reef was misplace as a result ?from incorrect geographic rectification of satellite imagery used to built? the type of Digital Nautical Charts (DNC) used by the minesweeper and most USN ships.

Hence, not an epic fail as that of Apple Maps, but possibly more dangerous.

All the source data for nautical charts will be reviewed.

In the meanwhile old paper charts will guide U.S. warships through the world?s troubled waters.'

That's gonna be fun to watch as it requires Readin, Ritin and 'Rithmetic, skills that most of modern youth has seemingly abandoned.