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Bushdog said..

woko said..
Just a heads up on the built in gps on the apple units, it's not purely gps it's a cheap blend of triangulation from towers, repeaters & wifi, If on the other hand you use a gps dongle thing like a bad elf or the like you will have a bonafide gps

Yes, I'd also have to challenge this. I've used my IPad (running Navionics) well offshore, and with mapping software in Central Australia hundreds of km away from Cell towers etc, and it provides accurate latitude & longitude. Basic compass Apps also work accurately on IPad and IPhone.

Admittedly it was/ is an older unit. I noticed the error while plotting land features for Tafe navigation exercises. My inquiry into the error lead to the info I quoted.

After doing some more research and some good feedback from some companies like everything it's a compromise. Smaller companies seem quicker and give proper specs.
It depends what you want/need.
The 1000 nit screens use a lot more power and are thicker and heavier. This is why some companies didn't use them.
GPS depends on the chip. Some companies say we use this chip contact them. Others give you exact specs. Are you using it as a separate nav device or just a repeater?
WiFi? Same, faster uses more power.
So it all adds up to weight,battery life and price!
Forget your max battery time. All those calculations are done at minimal settings.
I have told multiple companies I would do free testing but no luck!
I would say decide what you need. Then narrow it down. If you really need the 1000 nit screen you should probably be able to charge it via cable or seperate battery pack, especially if using GPS at the same time.
You have to email or message the company to get real answers.
So just like sailing you will have to compromise when buying a tablet.

Ok so took my new Lenovo p11 out today despite not having my sun shroud for it yet.
I turned the brightness up to max rather than using auto and I could read it fine as you may be able to discern from the attached picture.

It worked fine with no tethering from my phone after I downloaded the Navionics map via Wi-Fi and then turned hotspot on my phone off (unlike my galaxy Tab A8 10 inch which went overboard last week).

I had it on for 4 hours on Max brightness which used from 82% battery down to 26% which I thought wasn't too bad. It was fine all day although coming back down Pittwater it strangely lost GPS for about 30 seconds and indicated 0 speed.

One of those magic days when the ocean is deep blue and the whitecaps bright white and everything glistened in the sun.

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julesmoto said..
down Pittwater it strangely lost GPS for about 30 seconds and indicated 0 speed....

I love my tablets and iphones but IMO the internal GPS is not reliable enough for safe navigation, it is surprising how often it get confused, particularly in built up areas and in tight shipping channels. There is also one spot just south of Wilsons Prom in Bass Strait that my iphone's GPS consistently fails. If I could work out how to get ships GPS to overwrite the tablets Navionics signal, I'd be tickled.

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Andrew68 said..

julesmoto said..
down Pittwater it strangely lost GPS for about 30 seconds and indicated 0 speed....

I love my tablets and iphones but IMO the internal GPS is not reliable enough for safe navigation, it is surprising how often it get confused, particularly in built up areas and in tight shipping channels. There is also one spot just south of Wilsons Prom in Bass Strait that my iphone's GPS consistently fails. If I could work out how to get ships GPS to overwrite the tablets Navionics signal, I'd be tickled.

Yep. Not sure in Navionics but in Adrena you simply select the GPS source you want to reference .
I've been offshore many times when the satellites are low on the horizon and you lose synch.
Cheers,
SB

Thanks julesmoto.
I would say if you are using the GPS in the tablet you need to look into it. Some of the rugged waterproof ones have a 5Hz multi channel GPS. That is pretty good. Most plotters are 10Hz.
If you have a Raymarine plotter the app is great. You can bring up the plotter on your tablet and you are not using the GPS in the tablet. Same as B&G. Have not used the B&G app but will in a couple of months.
The thing that really annoys me is a lot of the companies selling these outdoor tablets and say they are great for running Navionics etc have no idea about the GPS chip in it. You have to do your own research or wait for them to find out.
I don't know about Apple.

Don't get me wrong I like my gps and a quality dongle or blue tooth gadget hooked up to your tablet / will put you exactly were you are, but without wanting to Sound like a preper, I was listening to a science program recently, it's expect that by 2026 there will be 100,000 satellites in orbit and at present there's no rules of the road in space. Given the smallest piece of space junk can bring these satellites undone adding to the orbiting junk to continue the snow ball ..............

My old Raymarine chartplotter at the chart table doesn't have any repeater at the helm hence the tablet. I also don't think the plotter has any capability for transmitting over Bluetooth.
If I put an auxiliary GPS receiver/ dongle in the USB port of the tablet can I direct Navionics to use that in preference to the internal GPS in the tablet? If so would anyone care to suggest a good GPS dongle.

Woko
Last Saturday a guy jumped on my boat to go for a casual pursuit race. Anyway turns out that he is on a international committee that sorts out the rules for satellites. Also one of his clients is NBN, his responsibility was to get their satellites into the correct orbit once up there. (Apparently they are the size of a bus and cost $1B each,they have 2). Anyway to get the point he explained to me that you have to think of space like a multi story building with kilometres between each level. Lots of GPS satellite's are in a lower level with heaps of room between each level, so the chance of hitting each other are very remote, Yes higher up their are issues where flecks of paint could cause chaos, but in his opinion things can get overblown by the media.

Tarquin

I just don't think the B&G app is there yet. For my purpose, sailing around Port Philip Navionics suits me fine. For around the cans racing I use my B&G Vulcan to easily create routes, I can then sync them to all my other devices. For passage planning I use Navionics web app on my Mac which is easy and again sync them with other devices.

In regard to rugged tablets, i agree they are the way to go with stand alone chartplotters. I'm not trying to spruke for sailproof but I think they have thought this through. The actual manufacture of their tablets is www.geshemtech.com/ who specialise in this stuff. They custom made the tablet to a sailproof spec, so I think they have done the leg work, i'm sure there are other options out there, but..

Thanks for the info.
The sailproof is definately at the top of the list.
Apparently they are working on the B&G app. I have heard this from a dealer and B&G. Lots of bad feedback about the app. Have you tried the latest version?
Still a couple of months away from buying something.
We are changing from Raymarine to B&G. The Raymarine app was great. Your tablet basically became a repeater. You could control the plotter as well. All you needed was a tablet with WiFi.

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julesmoto said..
My old Raymarine chartplotter at the chart table doesn't have any repeater at the helm hence the tablet. I also don't think the plotter has any capability for transmitting over Bluetooth.
If I put an auxiliary GPS receiver/ dongle in the USB port of the tablet can I direct Navionics to use that in preference to the internal GPS in the tablet? If so would anyone care to suggest a good GPS dongle.

Bad elf are well regarded also have blue tooth models. Not economy units though

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The sailproof is definately at the top of the list.

Agree. Any idea on price landed in Australia? Would have to be approaching 2 grand.

I think the Samsung Active 4 might be a good compromise. Not as bright is the main difference but still over 500 nits. But only 1 grand.

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neilmac01 said..
Woko
Last Saturday a guy jumped on my boat to go for a casual pursuit race. Anyway turns out that he is on a international committee that sorts out the rules for satellites. Also one of his clients is NBN, his responsibility was to get their satellites into the correct orbit once up there. (Apparently they are the size of a bus and cost $1B each,they have 2). Anyway to get the point he explained to me that you have to think of space like a multi story building with kilometres between each level. Lots of GPS satellite's are in a lower level with heaps of room between each level, so the chance of hitting each other are very remote, Yes higher up their are issues where flecks of paint could cause chaos, but in his opinion things can get overblown by the media.

I'm sure the likes of NOAA & AHO would have a thorough understanding of the risks before leading the shipping industry into the world of electronic navigation. Just a casual observation

tarquin1

I have the latest B&G app on my Tablet and I can control mirror/repeater the MFD. As it connects via bluetooth I find it bit slow and clunky, but then again all my testing has been in the marina and I may be getting interference from all the other boats around me, might check it out tomorrow on the water. To be honest I haven't used it much because I have a small boat with a tiller with a tiller pilot and I can easily operate the MFD from the cockpit. I originally bought the tablet to take up to the Whitsundays on a charter boat.

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woko said..

julesmoto said..
My old Raymarine chartplotter at the chart table doesn't have any repeater at the helm hence the tablet. I also don't think the plotter has any capability for transmitting over Bluetooth.
If I put an auxiliary GPS receiver/ dongle in the USB port of the tablet can I direct Navionics to use that in preference to the internal GPS in the tablet? If so would anyone care to suggest a good GPS dongle.

Bad elf are well regarded also have blue tooth models. Not economy units though

Thanks.

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Update from sailproof.


In fact, we are moving to a new model, SP08S, which will have Android 12, a new CPU, bigger memory and some other improvements. It will be available at the end of next week at the same official price as the former SP08AS.

There will be a high-end model, the SP08X, with 5G and other improvements too.

Cordialement,
Kind regards,

Jean-Michel

Went for a sail Wednesday and I'm afraid I have to correct my earlier statement that the GPS on my Lenovo P11 tethering from my 4G phone will give a position on Navionics. It DOES NOT. GPS is clearly "ON" in tablet settings but just like with my previous Samsung tablet Navionics prompts "No GPS signal - Turn GPS on." Infuriating and no good for true offshore beyond 4G signal. I must have had my 6 yo sons phone on board previously which must have had hotspot on.

Also the Lenovo tablet gets damn hot when left on despite being shaded. That will teach me to be a cheap arse.

Might bring the tablet home and load Google maps on it then see if it will get GPS in the car with no further 4G connection. It may well be that Navionics is blocking the GPS when not associated with 4G. I wouldn't put it past them since didn't someone say Navionics is now owned by b&g or Raymarine or someone else flogging overpriced screens.

Firstly Jules and contributors I have to thank you for all suggestions and advice. I'm sorry you are having issues Jules. As a result of reading above I took the plunge and purchased through amazon an android 11 with the intention of hooking up to gps via my iphone. It didn't work very well so I returned it . I have to say amazon was terrific. 10 mins. to approve return ,took it to post office who printed return label and credit / return done same day. I reviewed carefully all cheap tablets on amazon and came across an Australian designed tablet ostensibly with Aust.users in mind . It has GPS,wifi, 4g and bluetooth. It also accepts a micro sd for additional space.
IQU T8 4G LTE . They have a T10 tablet but 8"is ok for me .
I liked the back of the case which is not smooth like most.
I downloaded navionics for $ 39 and to check it was working on gps did not put in a sim card and tested it out on the water ( no wifi) Aside from me initially forgetting to turn off the 'go to sleep after 2 mins ' reception and tracking was great with no delay . I have just now ordered an anti glare protector to make things easier for old eyes. Thanks guys.

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Bananabender said..
Firstly Jules and contributors I have to thank you for all suggestions and advice. I'm sorry you are having issues Jules. As a result of reading above I took the plunge and purchased through amazon an android 11 with the intention of hooking up to gps via my iphone. It didn't work very well so I returned it . I have to say amazon was terrific. 10 mins. to approve return ,took it to post office who printed return label and credit / return done same day. I reviewed carefully all cheap tablets on amazon and came across an Australian designed tablet ostensibly with Aust.users in mind . It has GPS,wifi, 4g and bluetooth. It also accepts a micro sd for additional space.
IQU T8 4G LTE . They have a T10 tablet but 8"is ok for me .
I liked the back of the case which is not smooth like most.
I downloaded navionics for $ 39 and to check it was working on gps did not put in a sim card and tested it out on the water ( no wifi) Aside from me initially forgetting to turn off the 'go to sleep after 2 mins ' reception and tracking was great with no delay . I have just now ordered an anti glare protector to make things easier for old eyes. Thanks guys.

Thanks. Interesting
T least it works! I checked out out here because I want at least a ten inch screen.


www.mobileciti.com.au/iqu-t10-4g-lte-tablet-10-1-2gb-32gb-black

Battery capacity and ram seem to be a little light on for a 10 inch screen. Not to sure about the Android go os either.

Ha when it comes to electronics technicalities are not my strongpoint . 2gb
does sound a bit light on. I suppose you get what you pay for.

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julesmoto said..
Went for a sail Wednesday and I'm afraid I have to correct my earlier statement that the GPS on my Lenovo P11 tethering from my 4G phone will give a position on Navionics. It DOES NOT. GPS is clearly "ON" in tablet settings but just like with my previous Samsung tablet Navionics prompts "No GPS signal - Turn GPS on." Infuriating and no good for true offshore beyond 4G signal. I must have had my 6 yo sons phone on board previously which must have had hotspot on.

Also the Lenovo tablet gets damn hot when left on despite being shaded. That will teach me to be a cheap arse.

Might bring the tablet home and load Google maps on it then see if it will get GPS in the car with no further 4G connection. It may well be that Navionics is blocking the GPS when not associated with 4G. I wouldn't put it past them since didn't someone say Navionics is now owned by b&g or Raymarine or someone else flogging overpriced screens.

Ditch the phone tethering caper and get a gps dongle for your laptop. Get a good one it will work for years, there's plenty of cheap ones on the market but.... I guess it depends on what you want or need it for ? Gps watch's are popular but the screen is rather small

So a bit more testing indicates that my non 4G tablet works just fine with Google maps and gives me position and speed without WiFi. See attached picture. The same is not true of Navionics so Navionics is screwing with us.

I seem to recall that my subscription is the cheaper of two available so maybe they are trying to get us to upgrade but clearly Navionics is blocking the GPS signal of the tablet. I think someone also mentioned that Navionics is now owned by Raymarine who are probably trying to force us to buy their overpriced chartplotters.

Be good to hear from someone with some technical knowledge.

I had same message on original android tablet that did not have gps.
Can't remember but can to get to menu. If so go to paired devices and active appropriate per below.

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Bananabender said..
I had same message on original android tablet that did not have gps.
Can't remember but can to get to menu. If so go to paired devices and active appropriate per below.

Thanks yes the tablet works fine if I connect ("Pair") it to my phone hot spot by Wi-Fi but I want two independent devices in case one fails and certainly do not want it relying on the 4G of my phone which won't go very far offshore.

Hopefully mystery solved. I got the following reply from Navionics support. It's still a bit weird that it defaults to "GPS off" when it is not tethered but "GPS on" when it is tethered (or the device itself has 4g capability). Why anyone would want GPS off is beyond me. Also not particularly impressive that the girl that wrote the reply doesn't know her left from her right.

"Thank you for contacting Navionics. Apologies for any inconvenience, you want to now only have the location permissions enabled for the Boating app. You will need to be sure the GPS is enabled on the Boating app itself. The easiest way to see if the GPS is enabled on the App is to check the arrow icon in the lower right hand side of the map screen the arrow icon should show in a light blue, not dark blue like the other 2 icons. If the icon is dark blue that indicates the GPs is disabled on the applications and you will need to Tap the arrow to turn it light blue and enable the GPS. when the arrow icon is light blue and the GPS is enabled the Red arrow on the map will show your current location see screenshot below."

Useful map for when I want to sail the old America's cup course ;).

Jules, please correct me if I'm wrong. You have a Lenovo economy tablet, running navionics with the tablets built in gps ?

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woko said..
Jules, please correct me if I'm wrong. You have a Lenovo economy tablet, running navionics with the tablets built in gps ?

Yes Lenovo Tab P11(not Plus) . It's nice that it's slightly larger than most 10 inch tablets.
I got a real good deal on a demo with a 2-year warranty though at Jb Hi Fi. It came with a pen which isnt necessary for our purposes so you could get the model without the pen- Straight Tab P11 (not "plus"). I'm noticing that it does however run a little bit hot especially with the silicone cover all around it. It has nice long battery life because it has a larger battery. It is 7500 milliamps and I wouldn't get a one with a smaller battery unless it is only an 8 inch screen or something. Probably not an issue however if you can plug it in at the helm which I can't at the moment.

Thanks that's a good price!