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MorningBird said..

Ramona said...
Looking at the forecasts we are just going to see a downwind slide. Where is the dreaded southerly buster!

The S&S boats need a southerly to be competitive.

They need more than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Donk, probably the best view is from South Head, at Hornby Light up through the naval base. You will be able to watch the yachts work up the harbour, go round the marks and head out to the sea mark where chutes will be set. You wont see this from Neilsen Park.
Depending on where you are staying in Sydney, you can get a bus out to Watsons Bay, from Central or Circular Quay I think.

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Ramona said...

MorningBird said..

Ramona said...
Looking at the forecasts we are just going to see a downwind slide. Where is the dreaded southerly buster!

The S&S boats need a southerly to be competitive.

They need more than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We shall see. Love and War did very well recently and Azzuro was a contender last year. Just need the right conditions. As do the downwind 100ft skiffs.

S&S are past their used by dates sailing to Hobart and winning on handicap.

I find it a little sad that other really good boats that sail well, lose to a boat that can win from just finishing the race,,, even though they finished hours ahead.
I agree ,,,past their use by date, handicap has become meaningless.

I still think the yacht winning on handicap is the most important aspect of the race. It is a handicap race and always has been. The media keep calling the fastest boat the winner but that is not the case. The fastest boat side of things is interesting because of the trickle down technology we all benefit from but yachties probably identify mostly with the handicap and class racing. If Love and War with a large age allowance can get up and win I would be extremely pleased.

Hi Morningsun

Thanks for the information

Regards Don

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Jolene said..
I find it a little sad that other really good boats that sail well, lose to a boat that can win from just finishing the race,,, even though they finished hours ahead.
I agree ,,,past their use by date, handicap has become meaningless.

Why is the handicap meaningless? The race is about crew getting the most out of what they have.

The handicap has been developed over the years so that the boat that is sailed the best, whether a fast or slow boat, is a contender. The handicap may have its flaws but the crew that extracts the most from their boat wins, on handicap.

Perhaps they should just start making vintage sailboat racing hang it on the end of the same hobart race
Just like in vintage motorcycle racing

I guess it is just like our club racing where a new fast boat can finish a 7 hour race 2 hours ahead of a 40 year old much smaller boat but the little one wins on handicap

It is nice to cross the line first but when the little boat gets the win it encourages them to compete again in the next race and means that you can get a win without spending mega dollars on gear

The problem is that the different classes of boats end up in different weather conditions which makes the handicappers job difficult but I guess that if you sail what you have to the best of your abaility the swings and roundabouts will hopefully even things up at the end of the season

Regards Don

Donk I think you have touched on a very important aspect of the race, as I heard one commentator mention ' the fastest boats may only have to contend with one set of weather fronts, the smaller (slower) boats may have to contend with maybe 3 sets of weather patterns…and their commensurate sail settings/changes. Go the underdogs!…damn the torpedoes…and the handicappers!

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HG02 said...
Perhaps they should just start making vintage sailboat racing hang it on the end of the same hobart race
Just like in vintage motorcycle racing

I think you are on to more than you think here.
The glamour clubs are not interested in the older boats and I don't think they really want them in the Hobart.
But the older ior boats have become affordable for the average person so something like this would make it affordable similar to the old ior racing in Europe.

Or send the slow ones off a few days before hand, at least they will finish around the same time. Maybe a dial in time handicap like they have in drag racing, Playing catch up pursuit to a leading yacht would produce far better sailing and entertainment .

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Jolene said..
Or send the slow ones off a few days before hand, at least they will finish around the same time. Maybe a dial in time handicap like they have in drag racing, Playing catch up pursuit to a leading yacht would produce far better sailing and entertainment .

I think that the problem with doing this is it stuffs up the spectacle of the mass start in Sydney and I think the Sydney start would attract a lot more spectators than the Hobart finish

i just oust looked on the website and it says 600,000 people watch the start from around the harbour whereas the total population of Tassie is about 516,000

Regards Don

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twodogs1969 said..

HG02 said...
Perhaps they should just start making vintage sailboat racing hang it on the end of the same hobart race
Just like in vintage motorcycle racing

I think you are on to more than you think here.
The glamour clubs are not interested in the older boats and I don't think they really want them in the Hobart.
But the older ior boats have become affordable for the average person so something like this would make it affordable similar to the old ior racing in Europe.

Not sure that I agree that the older boats are not wanted in Hobart as I for one enjoy wandering around and looking at the slower boats after they arrive and sometime the fast maxi's don't hang around for too long after the finish

Also in Hobart the boats finish up and berth at the main public waterfront area in town which is not part of a yacht club with full access to the public and clubs I have visited down here are all fairly casual

if if I ever get the opportunity I wouldn't mind stopping up in Hobart for a few days and cheering each boat as it finishes from the first to the last one as I reckon the slower boats do it a lot harder and longer than the fast ones and deserve a good welcome in

Regards Don

Not arguing the slow boats are just if not more important.
I am saying the race committee (cyc) don't want the older boats . There never use to be a length restriction I was going to do it one year on a 26ft the first boat to finish under jury rig. Numerous 30ft and under use to do it but they are not interested in an old East Coast 31 doing it anymore.
Some sort of pre 1990 ior racing would be a good thing.

I am putting in tentative steps to do offshore racing starting with Hammo in 2017. Depending on how we go, I may expand into some of the longer offshores. But like all serious racing, it requires a dedicate team and lots of dosh. And the boat needs to be bought up to spec.

There wont be much reward for sailing an East Coast 31 in these events other than personal satisfaction. Although there is 1 prize available in the Hobart to small boats, namely the Plum Crazy trophy. Sean Langman should win it again this year. Perhaps I can mount a challenge in 2020 if I can find some other crazy's to join me.

To be fair to the organisation and committee they do have a legal duty of care to all who entered and by denying smaller or older boats they may well be just trying to do the right things.
I doubt its snobbery.

I imagine they would love nothing more than to have as many boats as possible competing but lets be honest. .. its one hell of a tough race!

Wild oats is goneeeee

Another way to think about it


Would you expect to see a old valiant in the bathurst 2000?

The media could do better to educate themselves on the handcap system and how the real race is won i must agree

Plum crazy is or at least was last time I looked for sale.
Putting your boat in the hobart would be very expensive I would look at the coffs race.

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ChopesBro said..
To be fair to the organisation and committee they do have a legal duty of care to all who entered and by denying smaller or older boats they may well be just trying to do the right things.
I doubt its snobbery.

I imagine they would love nothing more than to have as many boats as possible competing but lets be honest. .. its one hell of a tough race!

Wild oats is goneeeee

A strong argument can be made that a lot of smaller boats are much safer than the lightly built race boats currently approved for Cat 1 races. S&S34, Brolga 33, East Coast 31 all come to mind.
The cost of entering Cat 1 is a big problem. For example, to enter a S&S34 I need two >$500 medical kits. one in the front and one in back of the boat in case one can't be reached.
I had a Cat 1 suitable life raft, sold today on eBay, but I couldn't use it as a race raft because of the date I bought it. It is in perfect condition at each service. There are lesser standard rafts currently in Cat 1 boats.
The YA/RYA bureaucratic rules make it very difficult for owners of low value boats to justify the cost of entering.

I see Azuro is not doing as well this year but the Duncanson 34 On Tap is doing well. He is only one hour behind Giacomo on handicap something he may be able to make up. He is also in the lead in corinthian.

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twodogs1969 said..
I see Azuro is not doing as well this year but the Duncanson 34 On Tap is doing well. He is only one hour behind Giacomo on handicap something he may be able to make up. He is also in the lead in corinthian.

I had a Duncanson before MB. Well built little boat. On Tap has 222nm to go by 1245 tomorrow for IRC.
Azzurro is leading Div 4 but has 200nm to do by 1017 tomorrow for IRC.
Downwind was never going to be good for the little boats, they need a stiff breeze on the nose.
There is always next year.

Nic Douglass interviewing Sophie Ciszek, one of Aussie's best sailing talents, and one of my favorite sailors. Sophie was bow,driver, medic and diver in the Volvo Ocean race on Team SCA (swoon). She was sailing on Ichi Ban in the S2H, who were winning the handicap race till the soon to be infamous glass out in Storm Bay, delaying some boats anywhere from 4-10 hours! Ichi Ban details at 7:00, Sophie interview at 8:00!

www.facebook.com/sailorgirlHQ/videos/1233574070019688/

Well done to BlackJack for getting so close behind the maxi !! Well sailed

I also think Giacomo is the real winner ! Father and two sons and crew in a v 70 yeah !

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SandS said..
I also think Giacomo is the real winner ! Father and two sons and crew in a v 70 yeah !

Agree. I'd love it if my kids were interested in sailing. A Lord Howe trip as a family affair would be wonderful.

I work at a Council works depot in Tassie and there is about 45 blokes of various ages that work there, 1 owns a sailing boat and probably 5 or 6 of them own power boats

I have offered to take any of them sailing and in the last 4 years only 1 (a power boat owner) of them has come out with me and another 1 did a twilight race on the boat I crew on so either there is not much interest in sailing outside of the sailing community or they don't like me very much

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..

twodogs1969 said..

HG02 said...
Perhaps they should just start making vintage sailboat racing hang it on the end of the same hobart race
Just like in vintage motorcycle racing

I think you are on to more than you think here.
The glamour clubs are not interested in the older boats and I don't think they really want them in the Hobart.
But the older ior boats have become affordable for the average person so something like this would make it affordable similar to the old ior racing in Europe.

Not sure that I agree that the older boats are not wanted in Hobart as I for one enjoy wandering around and looking at the slower boats after they arrive and sometime the fast maxi's don't hang around for too long after the finish

Also in Hobart the boats finish up and berth at the main public waterfront area in town which is not part of a yacht club with full access to the public and clubs I have visited down here are all fairly casual

if if I ever get the opportunity I wouldn't mind stopping up in Hobart for a few days and cheering each boat as it finishes from the first to the last one as I reckon the slower boats do it a lot harder and longer than the fast ones and deserve a good welcome in

Regards Don

I didn't mean not let them sail Donk. All Im saying is run a vintage race at the same time .
It sort of reminds me of the old days when a father might build a mirror and take his daughter sailing ,that died as far as I'm concerned when plywood boats became redundant and fiberglass dinghies took over plus a few other things back in the 60"s.
It made a sailing families lose interest because of the rising costs
Then it slowly came down to who had most money wins by way of buying fresh sails to win .
In a way the older hobart boats are feeling it in the same way lack of funds to suit the race requirements.
just to race in that one race a year the Sydney Hobart.
Dont worry Donk I still like you, You're not Tassy local till you have been there for several decades

This would be my choice for Sydney Hobart. Been for sale for quite a while, but it would be nice to see it sell to someone with the time, money and commitment It deserves. If i wasn't in my current boat, and perhaps a little less busy, id be seriously getting a dedicated little syndicate together to buy and race it. Couldn't see a better boat to really enjoy a wide range of racing.

http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/sparkman-stephens-39/190853