kiwi307 said..
There are other reasons why some of us drift away Paul. In my case the bagging that I got for "pushing the envelope" and also the realisation that spending a load of time and money to travel to events where there was no wind and race officers insisting on running races
made me realise it wasn't the fun it used to be.
For me it got very close to throwing a Mini together, then I took a good hard look at the "rule" and figured it could very quickly go pear shaped.
Remember that I was on the International committee that met in the UK and re-wrote the 5 rules after listening to all input. It actually made my own yacht of the time illegal, but for the overall good compromises had to be made. My only regret on those rules, pretty much what the are now, is that we did not push harder for a diameter restriction 650mm to stay in place.
Is it too late for the mini. IMHO it is not, but there must be a will to want to have a workable outcome. Right now it's a hotch potch of little bits which were aired on this forum, 2 divisions might work, but again it would be very nice to see what the "spirit" division has in mind. How dou define lay down for example when the cloth seat of a Blokart allows you to snuggle down or sit up as required? Boom height could perhaps deal with that??
Anyway, recriminations will achieve nothing. Only way forward, as I said above is with a will to come up with a workable solution. Even the LLM would not fit what Andy has in mind I suspect, and IMHO it hardly "pushes the envelope".
FWIW I predate both you and 772! (Possible Gizmo too :) )

kiwi307 said..
Clem, yes you have a trailer and the place to store all your yachts and the trailer too.
Spare a moment to consider that not all the rest of the world is like that. Many of the Brits are very lucky to have a single car garage. Workshop area, no chance. The same applies to many in the US and Europe. If you can remember to when you were starting out you stayed with me in Auckland where I had a single car garage with the laundry in it too. That is not uncommon and why there are a number of people for who m the mini in whatever form is a good choice.
I agree with your thoughts over "horses for courses" I can also remember when you said the Blokart would never be a choice for you :).
Blake, is it possible to set up something smaller, as we sailed somewhere South LA (mid 80s) for an hour or two and invite those folks down for the time? Sadly most people need the sport taken to them rather than the other way round. Sure, you have many magnificent places to sail, the average Joe won't travel distances to get a go and most of those places I sailed in the US are hours out of town.
Many of those schools and rental outlets in particularly, France and Belgium are funding assisted but the original idea came from individuals and clubs with a will to share their sport.

Clemco said..
Ah yes I do remember those days. Built my first Class5 in the lounge of my two bedroom flat from materials from the local dump. And it was a very good one thanks to your excellent advice NZ307. Had no garage or trailer or much money for that matter. Carried the C5 in the back of my Transit van or on the roof of my girlfriends stationwagon. Yes those were fun days.

blake52 said..




...You are right about travel...I know better than most with all the close venues politically unavailable, I typically drive all night (or more) before an event, but there is something else going on. Las Vegas is a fairly big city with 4 or 5 sailable lakes within an hour's drive and never far from civilization's comforts and yet there are only a handful of landsailors there. If I don't make arrangements in advance, I could easily sail all day at any of those lakes and never see another sailor. I've been to well-publicized mini events near LV where only 3 other people showed up. There are far more water sailors in the desert than landsailors. If I was sensible, I'd probably just give up the dirt and get a water boat. If the Mini class (US or International) ever stabilizes and commercial boats become easily available, maybe it could wake the sport up here, but decades of Manta production has left hundreds hanging in garages all over America, but the only time you see more than one or two is at big, national events. Similarly, BloKart sold a lot of boats here, but where are they?
I love this sport, so I have a hard time admitting that it has a limited appeal. I would love to believe that if we could just get the right class of boat organized for the "masses" that they would show up and come back again, but I kind of don't believe that's the problem.

blake52 said..




...You are right about travel...I know better than most with all the close venues politically unavailable, I typically drive all night (or more) before an event, but there is something else going on. Las Vegas is a fairly big city with 4 or 5 sailable lakes within an hour's drive and never far from civilization's comforts and yet there are only a handful of landsailors there. If I don't make arrangements in advance, I could easily sail all day at any of those lakes and never see another sailor. I've been to well-publicized mini events near LV where only 3 other people showed up. There are far more water sailors in the desert than landsailors. If I was sensible, I'd probably just give up the dirt and get a water boat. If the Mini class (US or International) ever stabilizes and commercial boats become easily available, maybe it could wake the sport up here, but decades of Manta production has left hundreds hanging in garages all over America, but the only time you see more than one or two is at big, national events. Similarly, BloKart sold a lot of boats here, but where are they?
I love this sport, so I have a hard time admitting that it has a limited appeal. I would love to believe that if we could just get the right class of boat organized for the "masses" that they would show up and come back again, but I kind of don't believe that's the problem.

US772 said..
At last years ALC event at Ivanpah they ran the American Mini class and International mini class. I am assuming the same will happen again.

landyacht said..




if i recall correctly , you still owe me a long push at altitude!!!!! on a light wind day.
I do find it odd myself that the spirit class would basically consist of designs , which although nice , didnt really get anybody excited about minis.
it was only when we started playing with the yachts within a small wheelbase and "pushing that envelope" that the mini class blossomed. now we are gagging it . go figure?
as a builder the small sit up idea has no appeal to me . you are right about laying in a blowie to. i like to have my feet almost touching the front wheel wheel when sailing in light wheels( theres a hint for production competitors).
i did consider the seat hieght restriction the US was talking about but found it was a bit too low, making a full length seat that was light AND strong in the right places too hard ive ended with new seat that is 220mm on the rails and higher again in the bow..
seats with little or no back are not really so good on salt. in fact id put them down as dangerous.
my last major injury was getting shot out the back of a yacht with no back .
. and no the LLM wouldnt fit and theres no way im changing that awesome little design.
for all the design changes weve made in the last few years , at our last meet 2 of the best yachts in the fleet with really strng winds were the esperence lads in LLM's with the standard seats. the only reason they didnt win was due to `1 jumped start
and that happens to us all

barney831 said..



Thanks, John. Are you going?
Were the two mini classes run together or separately? If together, which class dominated the results? How many mini were in each class?

kiwi307 said..




Gee I wish this site (like most others) would let you extract just the bit you want to quote!
Long push at altitude Paul indeed. Obviously the endless debate about your silly duck waddling still persists! A few seconds of running push will always have a better outcome than endless waddling, and you know it. Unless of course you have people who don't know what a "sailable direction" means and push dead upwind in the middle of an orange zone. :)

landyacht said..








extracted just like that
. . im refererring to one of those pushes where a desperate to win sailor has run pushed his yacht so far hes collapsed on a claypan and an friendly aussie has put him in his standart and pushe him off in a sailable direction(instead of staright to the mark
the poor soul has then got some speed up and completed his race

kiwi307 said..

Gee I wish this site (like most others) would let you extract just the bit you want to quote!