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howesy said..
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I went out with some trepidation, having read up on the hazards there in this forum. Also I've been working in the Alfred hospital for the last 6 months and so was aware of the most recent serious accident. My hand was never far from the QR!

Am able to stay upwind and had no issue doing so yesterday, also was flying lowish in the window so don't think I was out of my depth or causing trouble (although happy to be proven otherwise by any observers!). However I was overpowered, and hence went in once I started tiring as knew mistakes could have serious consequences...

I think I learned a lot yesterday, managing difficult conditions rather than trying to learn toeside or pops, so whilst challenging it was good experience. Looking forward to going back in calmer conditions, once my abs have stopped hurting

I'd be inclined to say avoid riding overpowered in the initial stages of your learning curve. You are going to lose out on a couple of sessions, but you have your whole life of kiting sessions ahead of you. It is natural to want to be out often in the early stages of learning, but the risks when you are overpowered are exponential and the result of making a mistake can be fatal.

Where being overpowered has problems is your ability to naturally react to a bad situation. Simple example: You're riding overpowered, learning to pop, you pop but as you do, your front of your board catches a small piece of chop and it throws you into a forward rotation, now you are going backwards and can't see the kite so you pull what you think is the right side of the bar (everyone does this and you will at some point) and suddenly you loop the kite. Looping the kite overpowered in 35 knots on a 9.5m is what len10 does where you see him going 100m sideways so the result is you being yanked 50m horizontally before you even have a chance to react. You're already headed to the beach and the only thing that pulling the QR will do is make the second loop hurt a little less if you're not already unconscious because you've taken too long to pull it and are trying to work out what just happened. The accidental loop is extremely common because your body will panic under stress and do what it thinks is right.

It's not to say don't ride overpowered at all, just wait until you're comfortable doing big boosts where you can actually benefit from it rather than riding crappy gusty wind which is no fun for mowing the lawn.

^^^ we've all been there!

Sounds like good advice which I'll do my best to follow. Was desperate to get out and probably didn't appreciate how windy it was. I have an anemometer but in my enthusiasm failed to use it. Having said that, Kitebom immediately before I set up reported 20kt gusting 23 so didn't think it would be too tricky. I guess the lack of traffic should have indicated sub-optimal conditions!

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castill0jf said..

the video is from far but here it is

?rel=0

way too close to the trees...should not have pulled the QR/safety that close to the trees or road. if I'm not mistaken the wind was onshore as well, which means?......

IMO as an altona regular, when overpowered and there is no one to land you on the beach, find an empty spot in the water at least a line length an a half out and pull the QR. Sure your kite gets wet and your lines will probably pull in a heap of seaweed but at least you won't risk ending up in the trees, or worse the powerlines.

I ride cab kites and when releasing the saftey sometimes they kite turns straight over as it should, and on other occasions depending on the wind it can go a bit haywire in the air before landing. It's not worth the risk trying it on the sand at Altona.

How was the kite after you got it down?

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Saffer said...

howesy said..
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I went out with some trepidation, having read up on the hazards there in this forum. Also I've been working in the Alfred hospital for the last 6 months and so was aware of the most recent serious accident. My hand was never far from the QR!

Am able to stay upwind and had no issue doing so yesterday, also was flying lowish in the window so don't think I was out of my depth or causing trouble (although happy to be proven otherwise by any observers!). However I was overpowered, and hence went in once I started tiring as knew mistakes could have serious consequences...

I think I learned a lot yesterday, managing difficult conditions rather than trying to learn toeside or pops, so whilst challenging it was good experience. Looking forward to going back in calmer conditions, once my abs have stopped hurting

I'd be inclined to say avoid riding overpowered in the initial stages of your learning curve. You are going to lose out on a couple of sessions, but you have your whole life of kiting sessions ahead of you. It is natural to want to be out often in the early stages of learning, but the risks when you are overpowered are exponential and the result of making a mistake can be fatal.

Where being overpowered has problems is your ability to naturally react to a bad situation. Simple example: You're riding overpowered, learning to pop, you pop but as you do, your front of your board catches a small piece of chop and it throws you into a forward rotation, now you are going backwards and can't see the kite so you pull what you think is the right side of the bar (everyone does this and you will at some point) and suddenly you loop the kite. Looping the kite overpowered in 35 knots on a 9.5m is what len10 does where you see him going 100m sideways so the result is you being yanked 50m horizontally before you even have a chance to react. You're already headed to the beach and the only thing that pulling the QR will do is make the second loop hurt a little less if you're not already unconscious because you've taken too long to pull it and are trying to work out what just happened. The accidental loop is extremely common because your body will panic under stress and do what it thinks is right.

It's not to say don't ride overpowered at all, just wait until you're comfortable doing big boosts where you can actually benefit from it rather than riding crappy gusty wind which is no fun for mowing the lawn.

Well explained saffer, just another note when you loose sight of your kite when **** goes wrong, just let go of the bar. It's much easier to relaunch your kite then spend 6 weeks out with a broken ass

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suniboy21 said..

Saffer said...

howesy said..
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I went out with some trepidation, having read up on the hazards there in this forum. Also I've been working in the Alfred hospital for the last 6 months and so was aware of the most recent serious accident. My hand was never far from the QR!

Am able to stay upwind and had no issue doing so yesterday, also was flying lowish in the window so don't think I was out of my depth or causing trouble (although happy to be proven otherwise by any observers!). However I was overpowered, and hence went in once I started tiring as knew mistakes could have serious consequences...

I think I learned a lot yesterday, managing difficult conditions rather than trying to learn toeside or pops, so whilst challenging it was good experience. Looking forward to going back in calmer conditions, once my abs have stopped hurting

I'd be inclined to say avoid riding overpowered in the initial stages of your learning curve. You are going to lose out on a couple of sessions, but you have your whole life of kiting sessions ahead of you. It is natural to want to be out often in the early stages of learning, but the risks when you are overpowered are exponential and the result of making a mistake can be fatal.

Where being overpowered has problems is your ability to naturally react to a bad situation. Simple example: You're riding overpowered, learning to pop, you pop but as you do, your front of your board catches a small piece of chop and it throws you into a forward rotation, now you are going backwards and can't see the kite so you pull what you think is the right side of the bar (everyone does this and you will at some point) and suddenly you loop the kite. Looping the kite overpowered in 35 knots on a 9.5m is what len10 does where you see him going 100m sideways so the result is you being yanked 50m horizontally before you even have a chance to react. You're already headed to the beach and the only thing that pulling the QR will do is make the second loop hurt a little less if you're not already unconscious because you've taken too long to pull it and are trying to work out what just happened. The accidental loop is extremely common because your body will panic under stress and do what it thinks is right.

It's not to say don't ride overpowered at all, just wait until you're comfortable doing big boosts where you can actually benefit from it rather than riding crappy gusty wind which is no fun for mowing the lawn.

Well explained saffer, just another note when you loose sight of your kite when **** goes wrong, just let go of the bar. It's much easier to relaunch your kite then spend 6 weeks out with a broken ass

^^ that is probably the best tip if you get in trouble or crash do not try and save the kite drop the bar and get settled then relaunch, additionally if after dropping the bar you find your in trouble eg being dragged cos your kite has a wrapped wing tip and is looping etc pull your safety straight away.

If any one would like cheap lessons old mate is offering good prices on gumtree I'm not sure at what stage he introduces the tree landing maybe when you have perfected the pooh stance and then moved on to the teabag

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axion said..

suniboy21 said..

Saffer said...

howesy said..
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I went out with some trepidation, having read up on the hazards there in this forum. Also I've been working in the Alfred hospital for the last 6 months and so was aware of the most recent serious accident. My hand was never far from the QR!

Am able to stay upwind and had no issue doing so yesterday, also was flying lowish in the window so don't think I was out of my depth or causing trouble (although happy to be proven otherwise by any observers!). However I was overpowered, and hence went in once I started tiring as knew mistakes could have serious consequences...

I think I learned a lot yesterday, managing difficult conditions rather than trying to learn toeside or pops, so whilst challenging it was good experience. Looking forward to going back in calmer conditions, once my abs have stopped hurting

I'd be inclined to say avoid riding overpowered in the initial stages of your learning curve. You are going to lose out on a couple of sessions, but you have your whole life of kiting sessions ahead of you. It is natural to want to be out often in the early stages of learning, but the risks when you are overpowered are exponential and the result of making a mistake can be fatal.

Where being overpowered has problems is your ability to naturally react to a bad situation. Simple example: You're riding overpowered, learning to pop, you pop but as you do, your front of your board catches a small piece of chop and it throws you into a forward rotation, now you are going backwards and can't see the kite so you pull what you think is the right side of the bar (everyone does this and you will at some point) and suddenly you loop the kite. Looping the kite overpowered in 35 knots on a 9.5m is what len10 does where you see him going 100m sideways so the result is you being yanked 50m horizontally before you even have a chance to react. You're already headed to the beach and the only thing that pulling the QR will do is make the second loop hurt a little less if you're not already unconscious because you've taken too long to pull it and are trying to work out what just happened. The accidental loop is extremely common because your body will panic under stress and do what it thinks is right.

It's not to say don't ride overpowered at all, just wait until you're comfortable doing big boosts where you can actually benefit from it rather than riding crappy gusty wind which is no fun for mowing the lawn.

Well explained saffer, just another note when you loose sight of your kite when **** goes wrong, just let go of the bar. It's much easier to relaunch your kite then spend 6 weeks out with a broken ass

^^ that is probably the best tip if you get in trouble or crash do not try and save the kite drop the bar and get settled then relaunch, additionally if after dropping the bar you find your in trouble eg being dragged cos your kite has a wrapped wing tip and is looping etc pull your safety straight away.

Agree. The grip of death as it called. :)

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winter said...
If any one would like cheap lessons old mate is offering good prices on gumtree I'm not sure at what stage he introduces the tree landing maybe when you have perfected the pooh stance and then moved on to the teabag

I thought you were kidding, and then I went and found the ad. This is wrong for so many reasons and yet so hilarious that I've just spat out my coffee.

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chino said..

winter said...
If any one would like cheap lessons old mate is offering good prices on gumtree I'm not sure at what stage he introduces the tree landing maybe when you have perfected the pooh stance and then moved on to the teabag

I thought you were kidding, and then I went and found the ad. This is wrong for so many reasons and yet so hilarious that I've just spat out my coffee.

Perhaps someone should warn him that it's not council approved. If it's not council approved, he can't get insurance. If he can't get insurance, he is liable in a personal capacity.

If you're still flying kites into trees, you definitely shouldn't be instructing!

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Saffer said..
If you're still flying kites into trees, you definitely shouldn't be instructing!

Maybe the whole episode was a demo for a student 'never do this..'

Nothing fun about riding in ****ty gusty wind. I don't know why so many people bother

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chino said...

winter said...
If any one would like cheap lessons old mate is offering good prices on gumtree I'm not sure at what stage he introduces the tree landing maybe when you have perfected the pooh stance and then moved on to the teabag

I thought you were kidding, and then I went and found the ad. This is wrong for so many reasons and yet so hilarious that I've just spat out my coffee.

No mate not kidding , and if you want to see kiting banned at Altona Or a fatality then letting peanuts without experience qualifications and any clue Teach at you're local is the best way to do it so if you see this dipstick teaching at Altona have a friendly chat to him if I see him teaching anyone on our beach I will be advising him it's not on and if he doesn't listen more fool him

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winter said...

chino said...

winter said...
If any one would like cheap lessons old mate is offering good prices on gumtree I'm not sure at what stage he introduces the tree landing maybe when you have perfected the pooh stance and then moved on to the teabag

I thought you were kidding, and then I went and found the ad. This is wrong for so many reasons and yet so hilarious that I've just spat out my coffee.

No mate not kidding , and if you want to see kiting banned at Altona Or a fatality then letting peanuts without experience qualifications and any clue Teach at you're local is the best way to do it so if you see this dipstick teaching at Altona have a friendly chat to him if I see him teaching anyone on our beach I will be advising him it's not on and if he doesn't listen more fool him

I'd give one warning and then notify the council if he continues. It's a liability waiting to happen and it effects us all

Anyone got a link to the ad?
I've had numerous attempts at talking to the "culprit" (political hat on) but the guy hasn't listened to or taken in a signal word of friendly advice from many a experienced kiter in the last 18 months.

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BritRich said..

Anyone got a link to the ad?
I've had numerous attempts at talking to the "culprit" (political hat on) but the guy hasn't listened to or taken in a signal word of friendly advice from many a experienced kiter in the last 18 months.

I saw him giving lessons last week if we are talking about the same guy... there was about 5 knots... but what an idiot... he still rides poo stance and things his pretty awesome because he gets a bit of air... (this is if we are thinking of the same guy that happens to have a leash and a red helmet)?

I would be very interested to see the add too!


I've had a number of posts warning him and I know allot of the local riders who are more then ready to cut his lines.

It would appear old mate has listened for once and pulled his ad from gumtree
Red helmet 9m cab (tree hugged ) 14m liquid force pooh stance and rides out of control 80 percent of the time
We all know who it is
I Hatem when they can't be told

I, too, Hasin him around.

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BritRich said..

Anyone got a link to the ad?
I've had numerous attempts at talking to the "culprit" (political hat on) but the guy hasn't listened to or taken in a signal word of friendly advice from many a experienced kiter in the last 18 months.

Found this in google's cache.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_NdLN0fO-pQJ:www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/altona/other-sports-fitness/getting-started-in-kitesurfing/1036617725+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

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pdl said..

BritRich said..

Anyone got a link to the ad?
I've had numerous attempts at talking to the "culprit" (political hat on) but the guy hasn't listened to or taken in a signal word of friendly advice from many a experienced kiter in the last 18 months.

Found this in google's cache.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_NdLN0fO-pQJ:www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/altona/other-sports-fitness/getting-started-in-kitesurfing/1036617725+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

I like how the condition of the lessons is "Used".

I am considering to join the Twin Tip Race in St Kilda this evening... What wind condition is it likely to be and what kite shall I bring? Is it better to be rather a bit overpowered with my 14 LF? Any tips or recommendation to have a chance of winning the race guys?

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axion said..

suniboy21 said..

Saffer said...

howesy said..
Thanks all for the comments and advice. I went out with some trepidation, having read up on the hazards there in this forum. Also I've been working in the Alfred hospital for the last 6 months and so was aware of the most recent serious accident. My hand was never far from the QR!

Am able to stay upwind and had no issue doing so yesterday, also was flying lowish in the window so don't think I was out of my depth or causing trouble (although happy to be proven otherwise by any observers!). However I was overpowered, and hence went in once I started tiring as knew mistakes could have serious consequences...

I think I learned a lot yesterday, managing difficult conditions rather than trying to learn toeside or pops, so whilst challenging it was good experience. Looking forward to going back in calmer conditions, once my abs have stopped hurting

I'd be inclined to say avoid riding overpowered in the initial stages of your learning curve. You are going to lose out on a couple of sessions, but you have your whole life of kiting sessions ahead of you. It is natural to want to be out often in the early stages of learning, but the risks when you are overpowered are exponential and the result of making a mistake can be fatal.

Where being overpowered has problems is your ability to naturally react to a bad situation. Simple example: You're riding overpowered, learning to pop, you pop but as you do, your front of your board catches a small piece of chop and it throws you into a forward rotation, now you are going backwards and can't see the kite so you pull what you think is the right side of the bar (everyone does this and you will at some point) and suddenly you loop the kite. Looping the kite overpowered in 35 knots on a 9.5m is what len10 does where you see him going 100m sideways so the result is you being yanked 50m horizontally before you even have a chance to react. You're already headed to the beach and the only thing that pulling the QR will do is make the second loop hurt a little less if you're not already unconscious because you've taken too long to pull it and are trying to work out what just happened. The accidental loop is extremely common because your body will panic under stress and do what it thinks is right.

It's not to say don't ride overpowered at all, just wait until you're comfortable doing big boosts where you can actually benefit from it rather than riding crappy gusty wind which is no fun for mowing the lawn.

Well explained saffer, just another note when you loose sight of your kite when **** goes wrong, just let go of the bar. It's much easier to relaunch your kite then spend 6 weeks out with a broken ass

^^ that is probably the best tip if you get in trouble or crash do not try and save the kite drop the bar and get settled then relaunch, additionally if after dropping the bar you find your in trouble eg being dragged cos your kite has a wrapped wing tip and is looping etc pull your safety straight away.

It happened with me once. Was the last one to leave the water so I pulled the QR of my Cabrinha. The kite got wrapped around the wing tips and started doing crazy loops. Luckily I was far from the trees and so I was able to let it go.

sore abbs from that poo stance lol

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random101 said..

BritRich said..

Anyone got a link to the ad?
I've had numerous attempts at talking to the "culprit" (political hat on) but the guy hasn't listened to or taken in a signal word of friendly advice from many a experienced kiter in the last 18 months.

I saw him giving lessons last week if we are talking about the same guy... there was about 5 knots... but what an idiot... he still rides poo stance and things his pretty awesome because he gets a bit of air... (this is if we are thinking of the same guy that happens to have a leash and a red helmet)?

I would be very interested to see the add too!


I've had a number of posts warning him and I know allot of the local riders who are more then ready to cut his lines.

I think there maybe a language issue.. Maybe more than words may be required to make said person understand..

Looks like the kite in the trees wasn't the first time this particular fellow got into trouble....

www.heraldsun.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes