Hi guys,

I am looking for feedback / reviews from Dice 2015 users (just users). I am thinking of moving from fuse 2013 for a quiver of dice (11 & 8). been reading loads of stuff on the kite.....but too much information that seem to be coming directly from the North mktg department or some from web journalists who probably have been well looked after by north :-)

So feedback from Dice owners would be welcome! :-)

Thanks

Relative to the fuse? Is that you question? What type of riding do you want to pursue?

in relation to the fuse if you know it......or just your own opinion on the dice if you own one. thanks

Lol. You haven't been here long have you...sure I know about the fuse and the dice.

First things first, if you are looking for a transition from the fuse and you like what the fuse is about you are better off exploring the Evo. Neither the dice nor the Evo will jump as 'easily' as your fuse. The Evo the closest. The dice is not a sluggish jumper though, but you need some power and you need some basics in C kite jumping technique. The basics mind you, it's still a bridalled hybrid. The Evo is closeR to the bow feel, has a more obvious low end like the fuse (not as good/obvious) but both will kick the fuses ass near and beyond the top end. The dice is only three struts so has its upper end limitations, but that Evo can go right up and sometimes beyond its upper specified limit.

the new Evo and dice are far more versatile than the fuse.

But it again you haven't stated what baord, water type and riding style you want, so really I've pretty much wasted my farqin time writing all that bullsh1t anyway.

Inext time if one asks for information provide it, there is a reason it is asked.

Can you use a low Y style of bar (ozone) with a 2014/15 Dice?

Hi Mate, thanks for the info....and apologies for not providing the info :-) I was in a rush.
I am riding a TT and do mostly freeride/freestyle....well....i am fairly new in the sport and near 50 so freestyle is a bit too much for me! :-) I was looking at the Dice mainly for the ease of use and comfort it seems to provide. I find the fuse just a bit too much and always feel like I waste a lot of energy trying to fight the power (i weight 70 kg) ....in addition to this, I´d like something a bit quicker in the turns as the fuse can feel like a truck at times, with a hard bar feel. I know it jumps well (so i have been told :-) ) but changing for something that does jump as high would not be a prob for me.....what I really would like is find is something fun to ride, quick and that does tire me out like the fuse does. With that in mind, which one do you think would be more appropriate, fuse or evo? (it d have the be in the north range as the dealer gives me a good deal taking back my old fuse). thanks

Issue 71 of kiteworldmag gear reviews dice 2015 9 mtr, gives a very good review, easy to understand and not over technical like some, rode a few kites that I've liked the sound of and always found them true in their description, sounds a nice kite as the review, one thing to remember though , a review needs to be as per size , a 9 dice with be completely different to a 12, just some people assume it's the same but turns a bit slower, the latest Evo has been getting some love, a local has last years dices and isn't keen on them after a few years on Vegas,s he's now on the evos and raves about them, pretty punchy by the looks

Righto ta for the info.

Yeh man the fuse can work you hard I know exactly where you are coming from. I only weigh 74kg and although I'm generally on bigger kites than most (always really powered for my old school sh1t) the bar pressure on the fuse and its overall power delivery doesn't suite lighter riders like us. Its a grunty mother. But damn it can go big.

You gotta be careful with the dice. Sure it's relatively 'easy' to use but it's the kind of kite that will leave you scratching your head coming off the fuse becuase like any C based kite (even with bridals' pulleys etc) requires active flying. The power delivery needs to be earnt especially At its lower end. We've ridden the 9/12 both 2014/2015 extensively and while Cauncy is correct on allowing for size differentials per design, the 12m dice really is just a slower 9m. Very similar feel and overall attributes. The 11m 2014 was a weird one though For some reason. Honestly I don't think the dice is for you given your info above. It would do fine but the Evo or rebel is where you should be looking.

The new Evo to me, considering your ability level and needs may be a better pick of these two. It's power delivery is far more obvious. But be aware the bar pressure, while not as heavy as the fuse is still pretty solid. But again the Evo is designed for those that want to push into other styles, so my call is this to is not the best option for you.

Honestly given your fuse background, your ability and can be so bold to say age, you really are a good candidate for the rebel. Imagine a softer fuse, with less bar pressure but same obvious power delivery. It's a beautifully refined kite developed over multiple generations. Plenty of park and ride potential which I feel is where you are at.

HoPe this helps.

thanks eppo. Yes a while ago I was going fo the rebel....but to be honest, I do feel a bit bored with the "park and ride" feeling the fuse gives me and lately, I realised that I quite enjoy a kite with a quicker turn. I also have a 9m evo 2013 which I really enjoy flying sometimes when the wind conditions allow and when I have to go back to the fuse, it takes a a few days to get used to the "heaviness" of the fuse, and the slowness of the turn...hence why I was looking for something bit lighter/quicker....maybe I am asking too much in the sense that a 12M kite will always give the feeling of being slow comparing to a 9m .....dunno :-)

From what I have been reading, the rebel seems like a lovely machine.....and am sure I´d enjoy it.....just worried that its gonna be too similar to the fuse in terms of flying sensation...and maybe too powerfull....

I read the 9 m dice review cauncy was mentioning and I must admit that I found it very attractive. Now, I also realised that its a c shape and that it will require more work....so gonna to think about it!!!...and obviously some testing required!!

Cheers

You have to divorce your experience of the older Evo with the new one. The older Evo was also a grunt machine.

...that being said you can feel the Evo/fuse lineage still in the new one. But it's far more refined. Relatively quick to and the five struts really does allow a great wind range. She's still a bloody good jumper, surprises you actually.

The 2014/2015 rebel is very different to the fuse. Far more refined, doesn't pull your arms off and apart from a race kite, you'd find it hard to find kite with such a large wind range, especially the 12.

But it if lighter/nimble/quicker is in your head then Yeh I suppose the dice is worth a crack. LearnIng to get the most out of kite like the dice may be a great progressive journey for you for sure. Don't get me wrong, it's still a friendly platform but it won't give it to you on a plate. You'll need to improve to get the best out of it especially at its lower end. The guys I ride with really enjoy the dice. I personally don't ride them anymore but I still grab one now and then for a blast.

ride them all back to back if you can, take your time. If ya got some mates, put them in the air at the same time, swap over every 10 minutes or so over a day or two (Or a week if you want to ride free for longer ). That's what we do anyway.

Ps ever considered the Neo? Might also fit actually....

hahahaha.....well.....your suggestions are not going to make my choice easier :-) from what I read or the advice I have been given, I do admit I`d like to have a go at all these kites. Not sure its gonna be possible to try them all but i ll give it a go.....I ll let you know which one I am going for....thats if I go for one of them this year. Thanka again for your help.

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eppo said..
The dice is not a sluggish jumper though, but you need some power and you need some basics in C kite jumping technique.

G'day Eppo. If you have time, I'd be interested to know what you mean by this? I have and love (in an intimate way) my Dice (plural) and moved from Rebels.

I find the Rebels easier to jump with (more float time, more stable). I'm jumping 'ok' on the Dice, but if there is something specific I need to do to get that extra 3cm off the water (thus doubling my jump height) I'd love to know what it is!

Cheers.

Funny I came of the edges (wickedly good kite) onto the dices Season before last And although I had ridden the early C kites (that were basically trying their best to kill you) I was well and truly 'dumbed down' by the bow revolution by the time I goT on the dices. Wasn't until I tapped into someone (in desperation) and watched the unhooked guys a fair bit before it clicked. Infact unhooking myself really taught or re- taught me a lot.

Go go right back to basics. Keep the kite at 9/10 o'clock and just pop against it. Keep doing that until you really have the line loading, via edging down pat. Concentrate especially on the release Part and pushing off that back foot. doing some simple unhooking can really hoNe this skill then.

THEN add back in the the send Part. Some good videos on it. Edge load send Release. The more true C in your kite the more these attributes become important. Just sheeting out under power (to allow the aspect of the rebel to speed the kite up on the send part) to pull you off the water will only take you so far. Hence the point about actively flying the kite And using sound technique.

You will never get the float per size (unless you are kevin L on a torch but that pricks a freak of nature) that's just physics, but hey it also gives you great potentail to loop (and be assured it gets around to catch you) the more C in it. But in the right winds you can really explore the vertical vector. The more C given the same technique (same rider) the more rip in the vertical plane you'll get.

To really go big it's no secret, you gotta have more than enough power from the wind.

But go right back to basics...maybe allocate 10min per session in moderate conditions. Even slow down your speed to start with...then increase speed of course for maximum conversion from the horizontal to the vertical plane. Good edge, load and release technique really sets you up for safely (if there is such a thing ...every loop is different) as well.

Im back on high aspect race kites now but I've taken these skills from the dice and applied some of them back into the crazy world of more efficent kites so I can get enough vertical lift for my old school shenanigans. I don't think enough people take the time or have the discipline to get jumping technique Really honed...probably just having too much fun...wish I wasn't so anal so I could just do that. Even today I'm still working on it..infact only yesterday I spent the last 15 minutes just working on the basics again.

In summary And maybe counter to what you may think, watch, tap into the proficient unhooked guys if you really want to know how to use a kite correctly, their kite and edge control is paramount, without it, they snap ligaments!! Mad farqers the lot of them.

Eppo, you're as kind as you are comprehensive as you are helpful.

This is all great food for thought. From personal (mostly in-)experience... once you get off the ground with the rebel you can float along, kick back and enjoy the scenery, etc. where as once you're off the ground with the Dice, it takes a little more finesse to it, and you moving where you want to go. Otherwise you end up underneath the kite ...

That said I think I just need to spend a little more time with predictable conditions practicing ...

much appreciated. Don't give up to quick on the floatability of the dice. I ride with a guy who has an exquisite jumping technique (I've learnt a lot from him) and he gets some amazing hang and height on his 12m in 18 to 20 Knot..ish and some of his vertical height on the 9m last season was something to behold. Of course nothing will give you hang like a race kite (or even a foil) but sh1t I miss the dice during winter time in the swell. Always heart in the mouth stuff running down the line on a head high or bigger wave on a race kite. But you can't have it all, although some marketing morons (and their band of dimwit riders) would like us to Believe otherwise. get that load, edge release down pat first, strip it all back and get rid of bad habits we all develop.

before I go, back to my mate. His technique is a little in between the bow and C kite technique. He still does the edge, load and release thing, but has the bar sheeted out a fair bit, waits for a gust, then sends the crap out of it, stamps the back foot down quickly and powers up the bar and he leaves the water. In more marginal conditions he will sheet less and send the kite from lower down to let the kite arc take him up. Might be some thing to consider. I'm lucky that the race kite I use actually responds to a bit of c kite technique. So each kite has its own idiosyncrasies. Experiment.

Eppo
As always you do great analysis. This question should be in a new thread, but what are your thoughts on maximising vertical on a strapped surfboard with a Neo in waves? Matt has a woo and I'm going to get one for next season and I have to go bigger than 2m!

Jesus Dave you know me personally and hence must realise I'm no SB expert!

You also know that I will be honest when I'm not so sure...lol

I can jump the nugget pretty well and used to jump the naish global okay....but the two guys I've seen in the flesh going huge on SB's is KI'm (gero surf and sail) from up your way and Jason from Westoz. Kim on the Neo, Jason on the reo. Maybe give those two guys a buzz.

But i will I have a think about this one and also ask my mate down here who is 50/50 on both TT and SB.

Someone else might wish to pipe in. The interplay of edge and fins....I still suspect similar principles apply.

...how good though is that strapless ariel stuff getting!!! That is soooooooo hard to do. just love watching those vids on it but that's probably as close as I will get.


Ps say hello to mat fro me, last summer he had improved heaps hey!! Young guys, bastards learn so fast!!!

Shoudn't this all be in the Eppo section?

go for a pivot...

coming from the 2014 dice I find the pivot the best do all kite

I have a pivot and a dice and both very diff kites . When the dice is powered up its a great.smooth all round kite and prefer it to the pivot for waves and toeside etc

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eppo said..
Jesus Dave you know me personally and hence must realise I'm no SB expert!

You also know that I will be honest when I'm not so sure...lol

I can jump the nugget pretty well and used to jump the naish global okay....but the two guys I've seen in the flesh going huge on SB's is KI'm (gero surf and sail) from up your way and Jason from Westoz. Kim on the Neo, Jason on the reo. Maybe give those two guys a buzz.

But i will I have a think about this one and also ask my mate down here who is 50/50 on both TT and SB.

Someone else might wish to pipe in. The interplay of edge and fins....I still suspect similar principles apply.

...how good though is that strapless ariel stuff getting!!! That is soooooooo hard to do. just love watching those vids on it but that's probably as close as I will get.


Ps say hello to mat fro me, last summer he had improved heaps hey!! Young guys, bastards learn so fast!!!

Haha Eppo I'll try and simplify my question. As my balls are growing in size I bear off to maximize speed and try and find the sharpest part of the wave to jump off. But I worry I have windsurf mentality drilled in. I'm wondering if I should snap up wind as I hit the wave to load up and improve the boost.

When I have done that I do a squirly half loop and bale out .... Very messy haha


ps Matt going very well, boots and a Vegas quiver organised. Beaut girlfriend

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eppo said..
much appreciated. Don't give up to quick on the floatability of the dice. I ride with a guy who has an exquisite jumping technique (I've learnt a lot from him) and he gets some amazing hang and height on his 12m in 18 to 20 Knot..ish and some of his vertical height on the 9m last season was something to behold. Of course nothing will give you hang like a race kite (or even a foil) but sh1t I miss the dice during winter time in the swell. Always heart in the mouth stuff running down the line on a head high or bigger wave on a race kite. But you can't have it all, although some marketing morons (and their band of dimwit riders) would like us to Believe otherwise. get that load, edge release down pat first, strip it all back and get rid of bad habits we all develop.

before I go, back to my mate. His technique is a little in between the bow and C kite technique. He still does the edge, load and release thing, but has the bar sheeted out a fair bit, waits for a gust, then sends the crap out of it, stamps the back foot down quickly and powers up the bar and he leaves the water. In more marginal conditions he will sheet less and send the kite from lower down to let the kite arc take him up. Might be some thing to consider. I'm lucky that the race kite I use actually responds to a bit of c kite technique. So each kite has its own idiosyncrasies. Experiment.

Eppo... should you have any video footage of your mate's exotic technique (I'm talking about the boost jumps, and not something unseemly), I'd love to see it...

I've caught a few gusts on the Dice and it's a pleasure to work with. Much more responsive than the rebel in terms of moving it around whilst airborne.

Maybe RussKraut has something to offer on jumping technique. Probably not.

Dave I'd say follow the same principles I mentioned for a TT. On the way out to the break (or even when the swell is down out there) just keep your Neos parked and line load and Pop against your kite. Find the point of interplay between the fins and edge of your board that produces the best transfer of power to the vertical. If you aren't loading the lines (heading down wind then just launching off the lip) you will only fly under the kite. Find that single point of energy conversion board speed, board fin/edge load hence line load and sent kite. Work on bringing them all together. I'd say you won't have to employ as much board edge as you have some fin traction, but some edging would be good just before you leave the water. Snapping the board upwind I suppose is a decent idea but it may only require some back foot pressure to engage the fins and edge at the last moment. Experiment I suppose. But that line loading and Pop with a stationary kite still needs to be mastered even on a SB if ya wanna jump I suppose.

Video footage... Nah we are too busy kiting to take bloody video footage. Maybe one day. I do have a good Sony video camera just never used it. Whose gonna sit on the sidelines and take footage? Fck that we all wanna be on the water.

Think you are right Eppo I need to nail the load and pop technique on the surfboard to max air time. I feel I've nailed the send the kite timing but need to get some feeling around edge and kite tension.

Sophie is getting better!

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eppo said..
Maybe RussKraut has something to offer on jumping technique. Probably not.

Dave I'd say follow the same principles I mentioned for a TT. On the way out to the break (or even when the swell is down out there) just keep your Neos parked and line load and Pop against your kite. Find the point of interplay between the fins and edge of your board that produces the best transfer of power to the vertical. If you aren't loading the lines (heading down wind then just launching off the lip) you will only fly under the kite. Find that single point of energy conversion board speed, board fin/edge load hence line load and sent kite. Work on bringing them all together. I'd say you won't have to employ as much board edge as you have some fin traction, but some edging would be good just before you leave the water. Snapping the board upwind I suppose is a decent idea but it may only require some back foot pressure to engage the fins and edge at the last moment. Experiment I suppose. But that line loading and Pop with a stationary kite still needs to be mastered even on a SB if ya wanna jump I suppose.

Video footage... Nah we are too busy kiting to take bloody video footage. Maybe one day. I do have a good Sony video camera just never used it. Whose gonna sit on the sidelines and take footage? Fck that we all wanna be on the water.

Funny thing is Eppo that the one thing I've been consistently doing ok for the past 8 years is jumping high (yes vertically high). Ok minus the last year post tendon avulsion recovery period perhaps (RPM and Nugget can also be fun though). Vegas helps for throwing it quickly and precisely from A to B. Good board helps with the speed. Boots help with edge control. And 70kg help against the gravity. I would however be hesitant given advise unless I see someone in action as there are so many variables which are hard to assess and to capture. And of course I don't have the Eppo eloquence
The one thing I can say though is that jumping when overpowered is a piece of cake. Good jumping technique becomes evident when moderately powered

Good point on the moderate conditions to discern Correct jumping technique.

You can advise the basic principles becuase they are just that, principles. Applicable to any rider.

Dave great to hear that news about your daughter.

All good mate your advise is spot on. I was referring to myself as source of advise. As there are too many different kites, boards, and conditions. Delta kites usually easiest for beginners getting into jumping as the kite does not have to be redirected that much. However, it may be a bit harder to control the edge i.e. not being pulled off the edge prematurely. C kites (apart from being more fun in general) require more active movement from e.g. 10 to 1 rather then 11 to 12 and simply pulling the bar in. In both cases speed helps as it creates energy which can then be turned into height. However, to avoid teabagging and a powerful but useless long but flat "jump", one has to almost come to an explosive sudden and very short (fracture of a second) stop/pop (slighly directing the board into the wind) in the right moment, when the kite has arrived at 10 and the bar is being pulled in so that the lines are stretched to a maximum (kinda kite going the opposite direction of the rider). It is that explosive radical moment which catapults you off the water, at the right angle so that it turns out to be a vertical lift. A lot of rides try and edge/stomp the board too gradually or too early killing all the energy and speed off. Or do not move the kite agressive enough or not fast enough or in the wrong moment. Anyway, different post I guess and probably discussed a million times.

Yeh good info man agreed. Given some of the tutorials going around lately I think there is still room of these basics it seems... On the C kite front, it seems drury is having the same problems explaining the FX as we did with the dice. the old 'it has no low end' bullsh1t which really equates to 'I'm used to getting pulled along on my delta tractor'.

That is because nobody learns to move the kite around anymore to produce energy when you need it but only then. Also nobody learns to relaunch anymore as we had to on say a CO2 back in the days. And everyone wants the c kite like explosive lift but the delta like hangtime and landing. Same goes for the pop and slack (though I am not at the level to appreciate this enough but even simple but powered raileys will show a difference). Gimme a kite which does it all, also drifts like a Reo, loops like a Fuel, and goes upwind in sub 10 knots size 14m. I forgot it needs to be cheap as well

Apparently the new X4 core does it all.

I had a quiver of XR3. Last forever and huge wind range and great fun in small sizes (where any kite behaves a bit closer to that c kite feeling anyway and a real c kite can be a bit of a pain). Best bar ever, smart way of unswivelling lines. But then there is that super long bridle which likes wrapping around the wingtip. I prefer looping when I say so, not when the kite decides so after a tangle