Now I know no one likes to read my reviews but hey, I have just come in from an excellent session at my secret spot (not really that much of a secret), about head high right handers, wind south-southeast ranging from 20 - 30 knots.
My experience - Advanced, 9 years kiteboarding, preference waveriding. lots of competition experience. Surfing for over 20 years.
Weight = 95 - 98 kgs. (before and after beers!)
Height = 6'2"
Stance = Goofy.
Time spent testing 2.5 hours in total.
KITES TESTED:
9m North REBEL 2008
9m Naish CULT
10m Naish ALLIANCE.
BOARDS TESTED:
2008 North Rocketfish 5'9"
2008 Naish CR wave 6'1"
2008 Naish 5'5" Fish
Firstly the wind was gusty, and powerful, great conditions for testing de-power kites. Extremely difficult launch, very tricky inside section, and excellent waves.
Kites, I found that out of the three, the Cult definatly had more power, I reckon I could have ridden a 7.5m and still been fine for bottom end. The Rebel has a real power band as it passes through the middle of the window, extremely punchy. And the Alliance felt very similar to the Torches full time power, it just pulled consistantly and probable a little more powerful than the REBEL.
I found the Rebel turned the fastest, but the Cult and Alliance were more powerful through the turns.
Bar pressure for both de-power and turning was the lightest and smoothest on the CULT, the Alliance and REBEL have similar weight on the bar. The Sigma kites were both smoother through the full de-power range, and achieved a more consistant bar feel all the way to full de-power, though the REBEL was very close. I would say the Rebel turned with less linial input than the other two.
Relaunch, didn't try the REBEL (didn't drop it), ALLIANCE and CULT were effortless!, Cult if by far the easiest, the ALLIANCE relauched like a normal shift kite, but was conciderably faster
Responsiveness. REBEL and ALLIANCE were pretty similar, both very direct, and the kites responded to every input immediately. I would say that the ALLIANCE had a bit more power and had a more consistant pull, the REBEL was a little more friendly on the sides, but fast and responsive in that power band I described above. The Cult is super light on the bar, and far more responsive than any bridled kite I have ever flown, very close to the REBEL and ALLIANCE but you can still tell that it's an SLE, only just though! All three kites had great responce when fully sheeted out, enabling fast kiteloops and under turns whilst going down the line in big gusts fully de-powered.
I was able to achieve more de-power on the CULT with out changing adjuster strap or vario cleat settings, it seemed to have the biggest wind range, followed very closely by the REBEL, the ALLIANCE still pulled quite hard at it's full range, but definately achieved significantly more de-power than 2007 Torch (i am using torch to describe the ALLIANCE's characteristics, because it is the closest to the way the ALLIANCE feels).
All up, all three kites were amazing.
My personal prefernce:
For waves would have to be the CULT, I have ridden Naish Kites for over 8 years now, and feel pretty at home on them, but I don't think it would take me long to feel at home on the REBEL.
If I was still doing freestyle, the ALLIANCE would be my kite of choice hands down, everything I love about the TORCH, and then so much more. The REBEL has come a long way though from the 2007 model, with that power band, high load freestyle moves are definately more achievable.
I didn't do any jumping!
BOARDS:
5'5" Fish, loved this board last year, and nothing has changed! I rode this board un-strapped. This board kills it, it's super loose, can handle more speed than it should for it's width, and is great in the pocket. Turns super tight!
The 5'9" RF, this boards looks the most impressive. I rode this board strapped. Super clean lines, very thin rail profile, looks like a pro surfers board. I found it held nice on a long line, carried speed well and had great speed control. I felt the fins may need some tweeking for high speed powerful turns. Board felt responcive but secure under your feet. But as a package, definately impressive!
The 6'1" CR, I rode this board strapped. Looks like it should ride more boaty than it does. I found I could ride this board harder and faster (considerably) than the other two. Carried more speed into harder and tighter turns. Felt very balanced and light under your feet.
Personally, I can't go past the 5'5" Fish for small snappy surf, great for strapless freestyle, excellent bottom end, very fats up wind. Between the RF and the CR, I felt more at home on the CR, but I still like the look of the RF, I will need more testing.
Sorry about the spelling, it's never been a strong point for me!
All the boards rocked, and kites just keep getting better, makes you wonder how they keep getting better every year!
Regards,
JB
nice informative post. Great to see such a complete review using multiple products.
The only issue for me, and its a general naish(and other premium brands) issue i suppose is, what will a naish kite (2008) do that another kite brand(2008) 500 dollars cheaper won't do?
The difference in cost at the moment doesn't justify the extra spend especially when there are so many new(or NEW, sic!) kite brands coming out that have very similar characteristics?
Which is a shame as the kites really do appear to be very good, just too much of a difference in price to get past she-who-must-be obeyed.
Hi Meerkat,
Thanks for the props on the review.
Like anything in life, generally you get what you pay for in one way or another. This years kites are no exception, their are some real innovations and design feats that have significantly changed expectations for this years kites, and for the future.
I hope you get the chance to try some of the 2008 kites.
regards,
JB
Hi JB
I was told that Naish will or have released a cleet depower strap thingy for the Helix. as an addon kit.
Ive got the toggles on mine and would love to change it over, any idea when or if this is gonna happen?? is it gonna be hideously expensive???
Ive ony had approx 30 mins on a demo kite so far and have to say, it totaly sold me and i had to have one... cant wait to get into the waves on it, with my 5,5 customfish 
.
BTW meerkat
I was lucky enough that my local Kite shop, gave me such a good deal on my Helix, that it was more than competitive price wise. Haggle with the right people and i,m sure you could get a good deal too.
quote:
Originally posted by JB
Hi Meerkat,
Like anything in life, generally you get what you pay for in one way or another.
Merman,
Yes, Naish have a new Chicken loop system called the "SMART LOOP", it eliminates the need for an adjuster strap. All adjustments are made at the chicken loop. It's really cool. We were unable to have it as standard on all the SIGMA kites as it would have delayed delivery by several months. So we are delivering all SIGMA kites with the standard chicken loop (same as the 2007 one), and offering the SMART LOOP as an upgrade/accessory. I do not have final pricing on the SMART LOOP yet, but it should be available in the next month or so (i hope, delays are in the factory).
Regards,
JB
Meerkat,
I urge you to wait until the CODE arrives. It is the price point SIGMA kite from Naish. It will be cheaper than the CULT, but still flies amazingly. They have been able to make a kite that performs at the level of it bigger brothers, but with less bells and whistles. There is no Octopus inflation, and the canopy is only one colour. But I saw Robby Naish out-boost every single importer at the Maui meeting on a 9m CODE. This kite flies fast and responsive, and delivers performance your used to paying a lot more money for. ETA is November, pricing will be confirmed soon! It is not out of reach to have the latest kites!
BTW, CODE is not a school or beginner kite, it is a price point performance kite! And it does perform!!
Regards,
JB
Great review JB, very informative. Thats the way reviews should be written, i am in the market for an alliance, torch or a rebel, loved last years torch and rebel, probably preferred the rebel, cant wait to try this years, if i go for the alliance will wait for the smart loop, still defrosting here in Melbourne, although warming quickly!!
Hi JB,
Nice review!
I have two questions that you might help:
- How do Alliance and Cult compare to Helix?
- What bar setting did you use? 2:1 or 1:1? If 1:1 how do you compare bar travel between the three?
Thanks.
Nice review.
Just a few questions.
How come the Alliance does not come in a nine would you say the 8 Alliance has as much bottom end as a 9 mtr torch.This suprises me as Naish usually make a nine in most models.
If the Alliance has seven struts does that mean the kite flys faster than the Torch but will it turn slower like most seven strut kites, as most freestyle kites only have 5 struts, eg Torch Vegas and Fuel probably the three top freestyle kites out there.
Everyone knows how good last years Torch was really how much better is the Alliance and why.And can you still get the 08 torch in Australia as I was told you have to order them in as you wont be doing any pre ordering.
I flew the SIGMA kites on 1:1, there is really no need to use the 2:1 option (which only comes with the HELIX). The CULT and CODE only come with 1:1 bars (no pulleys).
Although incredibably smooth, the REBEL had a more on and off power over roughly the same bar movement, the CULT was definately the smoothest at delivering the de-power, and the ALLIANCE was at a similar smoothness to the CULT, but didn't achieve the same amount of de-power for the same bar movement as both the other two.
Now I didn't ride the HELIX yesterday, but I have ridden all the SIGMA kites back to back before (in MAUI). All the SIGMA kites boast the same fantastic performance due to the SIGMA outline and the GEO-TECH. The main difference is...
HELIX - a slightly more open span = slightly bigger wind range. Greater stability in the top end due to the 7 struts (over the 5 strut models). an advantage to bigger riders, or those who like to ride over powered.
ALLIANCE - The next step down in the span (slightly more than CULT, but less than HELIX. we talking 1-2% here, not much).
Very direct feel, and constant power (very similar to the TORCH). Perfect Freestyle kite, or for those who love the SIGMA and GEO-TECH but don't like bridals. Slightly less de-power for the same bar movement of the other SIGMA kites. (the kite is able to achieve the same de-power, but you will need strap pulled on).
CULT - The Next step down in span (slightly less than the ALLIANCE but slightly more than the CODE, once again tiny difference).
Slightly lighter than both the HELIX and ALLIANCE due to the 5 struts, lighter bar feel as the kite is not as rigid as a 7 strut kite. Great kite for nearly every one, this kite I see being the biggest seller, both performance and price are unreal! I like it in the waves because it is a tiny bit lighter.
CODE - Basically a price point version of the CULT. NO octopus inflation, and only one canopy colour. This kite amazed me in MAUI, I honestly had to force my self to try it as I kind of automatically moved it into the begginner/school catagory. This is not so, it is price point, this kite kicks ass big time. Anyone will be able to rip as hard as anyone else on this kite, no holding back!
All the sigma kites are amazing to fly, and you could really fly any of them in any condition and find it hard to find a winner. The biggest difference in the range is between the HELIX,CULT,CODE and the ALLIANCE (obviously SLE vs. SHIFT).
Now Torch vs. ALLIANCE.
This is hard as the TORCH has been my favourite kite since it's unvailing in 2005, and I don't want to put it down.
The 2008 Torch is basically the same kite as 2007, slight modifiaction to the wind tip patches, and a graphic change (if it ain't broken, don't funk with it!). Were the ALLIANCE out flies it is in stability, GEO-TECH and SIGMA make the kite able to achieve amazing angles of attack without distorting the canopy or loosing laminar flow. The ALLIANCE has more bottom end (well definately a more efficient bottom end and turning) so therfore you can go a size smaller, it also achieve a much greater amount of de-power, so you don't need as many kites. The ALLIANCE, like all the SIGMA kites achieve more active back line pressure whilst the bar is sheeted out, this means you can still kiteloop and turn the kite extremely fast even when fully sheeted out.
All up both kite rock, but the ALLIANCE has a lot more to offer for your buck, this is why we chose not to stock the Torch this year, after riding all the kites the TORCH didn't seem to fit in.
Yes there available by special order only, delivery times depend on when orders are placed. I strongly suggest trying the ALLIANCE before making your mind up, we did think very carefully before making this decision as TORCH was our biggest selling kite last year.
Regards,
JB
hi,
Those are good news. In the tests i did in very gusty wind, the Helix required 2:1 because of the long travel 1:1 demanded. 3 am 185cm tall, but my spot is very, very gusty.
I am very curious to test the other sigmas in small sizes because the Helix stability is clearly a step forward.
quote:
Originally posted by merman
BTW meerkat
I was lucky enough that my local Kite shop, gave me such a good deal on my Helix, that it was more than competitive price wise. Haggle with the right people and i,m sure you could get a good deal too.
Hi JB,
Seeing as the alliance's have been pushed back till Oct, any chance they will come with the smart loop?
Cheers
quote:
Originally posted by WOKquote:
Originally posted by merman
BTW meerkat I was lucky enough that my local Kite shop, gave me such a good deal on my Helix, that it was more than competitive price wise. Haggle with the right people and i,m sure you could get a good deal too.
Are you saying you didn't pay full retail for a Naish product in Australia !! That's illegal
)
Hi Random,
All Sigma kites are coming standard with the standard loop. The Smart Loop will be available as an accessories next month. It is a legisticle nightmare to try and change a stocked item half way through shipments. We have priced all the kites with the standard loop. and they will all be delivered that way. Sorry, but we would of had to hold back until October - November to deliver with Smart loop.
Regards,
JB
Not to diss naish, because other manufacturers are guilty of the same thing, but what gives with all these guys releasing half finished kites. The rebel come with last years bar, the helix comes with a half complete bar, you'd think these guys would try jack things up a bit.
Hi Saffer,
Naish's bar isn't half complete, it's an option to have the STD loop. We often get a number of choices when ordereing kites, bar length, line length, double de-power, smart loop etc.. We choose to supply the kites with STD loop so we could deliver them earlier.
Rebel 2008 is not being delivered with the 2007 Bar. Release on the 2008 bar has been delayed in the factory, so we gave our dealer the option to either wait until the bar arrives, or take the Rebels now and get the bars later. It is up to the dealer what he wanted to do.
I would like to point out also that it is the 6th September 2007, and these are 2008 model kites, I think the kite companies are doing really well to try and release kites for our season. Most production is based around the northern hemisphere.
Regards,
JB
quote:
Originally posted by Saffer
Not to diss naish, because other manufacturers are guilty of the same thing, but what gives with all these guys releasing half finished kites. The rebel come with last years bar, the helix comes with a half complete bar, you'd think these guys would try jack things up a bit.
) those things... Sorry you got misinformed Saffer...). Some customers were happy to wait for the bar to arrive to get their kite complete, others couldn't resist flying their kite right away with an 07 bar. But people had the choice. I think it would have been unfair to hold the kites back until the bars arrive without giving people the possibility to fly the Rebel 08 right away if they wanted to (and as you may have read in the review, the kite obviously flies very well with 07 bar...).
Not at all. Everyone is talking about flying the rebel's on last years bar because the 08 bars aren't ready yet. The kites get released the same time every year so why is it such an issue to get the bars out on time?
As for the smartloop, clearly that was what Naish wanted to put on the kites but it wasn't ready so they delivery the bar with last years loop in the interim.
As I said, these companies aren't the only ones who seem to delivery products that are incomplete on release so I wasn't dissing these specific brands, I'm just saying its not that hard to make sure everything is ready on time.
Logistics Saffer!!! sometimes its just not logisticaly possible to get all the products out at the same time.... and as consumers the kiting manufactures just wanna give us the kites as soon as they can....
personaly i would rather get a new kite sooner rather than later(plus or minus extra bits).
not meaning to crap on ya saffer but i,d rather get my kite now and get used to it rather than recive it mid spring...
dude youve gotta fly one of these kies, they freeken crazy!!!! this year is gonna be epic!!!
Sorry Saffer, I was editing my last post as you were replying to it... I think I've since already replied to the first bit of your last post.
quote:
Originally posted by Saffer
As for the smartloop, clearly that was what Naish wanted to put on the kites but it wasn't ready (...)
quote:
Originally posted by Saffer
I'm just saying its not that hard to make sure everything is ready on time.
Just to let you all in on how many manufacturers are involved in building a kite.
From one factory/supplier you have the Nylon, Dacron and dyneema used in the canopy.
From another factory/supplier you ahve the latex used in the bladders.
From another factory you have the actual construction of the bladders (the welding etc)
From another factory/supp you have the materials for the bar.
From another the grip on the bar,
From another the lines
From another the mechanics in the Iron heart/Smart loop
From another ...... and so on.
Then what happens is these suppliers have to promise to the manufacturing company that they will have all the componants ready and delivered to the factory to match up with pre- designated production sceduels (you have to remember there are over 5 different kite brands made in the same factory these days, and you only get certain allocated times for your goods to be made). Now when it becomes time for your goods to be made, if any of the above factories or suppliers can't deliver, that can knock your production back conciderably. Even though the materials may get there one day late, if you have missed your production run, you have to wait until your next sceduelled factory time. Imagine how hard it must be to co-ordinate 15 different suppliers, most of which have only just received the designs only 1 month ago for the componants they are making, all to match up with un realistic delivery dates! This is all nessecary these days because of the internet, forums leak images of proto type kites and the consumer demands it right away! I think all the companies do extremely well to get product on the market to match consumer demand and keep delays between the first unvailing of the product on forums and actual delivery to a minimum. And as Merman said, there is a majority of consumers that would rather ride the kites now then wait 2-3 months for the factory's to catch up with production.
You also must remember that every kite needs to be designed, you don't just make a 12m kites then scale it. I know that North and Naish design each size from the ground up. and a lot of the time these designs are only just finalized one month before production. It's not as easy as some of you all may think. Once again, props out to the companies!
I hope that helps you understand how hard it is to co-ordinate a mass release.
Regards,
JB
Tell you what, let me start this as a separate post, this is a review post and I don't want to put a negative spin on Naish and North review post because its probably not the correct place and it looks like I've already sidetracked the post quite a lot already.
JB can you tell me how close the Cult is to that C kite feel on the 1to1 setting.
When testing the Helix out of all the SLE I have tried it was the closest kite that felt like a C kite.You cant beat that C kite feeling.
What kites are you leaning towards in the Sigma range as I am quiet confused as to what quiver of kites I am going to get.
Riding in the Surf is what I enjoy the most, and can you self launch the Cult like a C kite.
Dan,
All the SIGMA SLE's feel more like C's than ever. But the closest would probably have to be the CODE, it actually is the most C shaped of the 4 sigma kites (not by much though). The CULT would then be next.
All the SIGMA kites have very slight performance differences, which may or may not make them more appealing to different customers. I think I have broken them down many times, but hey, I'll do it again!
The Helix, 7 struts, SLE, octopus inflation, very stable, can handle being very overpowered (i.e. has an amazing top end) A great choice for bigger riders because of this. Probably has the biggest wind range of all the SIGMA kites.
THE ALLIANCE, 7 struts, SHIFT, octopus inflation, Same amazing canopy stability due tot the 7 struts, No bridals, more dirrect bar feeling because of SHIFT, not as drastic depower as the SLE for the same bar movement. Probably suited to the more hard core freestyle kiter, or kiter who is not into the whole bridals and de-power thing.
THE CULT, 5 strut, SLE, octopus inflation, Very light feel in the air, drifts nicely because it is light due to the 5 struts, quick responce also because of the 5 struts. Personally like this kites for the waves. Amazing price point for what you are getting in a kite.
THE CODE, 5 strut, SLE, an amazing performance at a stupidly low price. Grab all the main features off the SIGMA and GEO-TECH, build a kite with all of Naish's super strong construction techniques, but take away the bells and whistles. Maximum bang for your buck! Definately gonna change the pricepoint market for ever!
Regards,
JB
Thanks JB sounds like the Cult is the go , great all round kite and a great performer in the surf.
These new Naish Sigma Kites have certainly generated some interest!
Approx 10500 hits (in a very short time) on SB Forums re Helix, Cult etc!
)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_)_u
FOR INFO, DEMO CULT JUST ARRIVED ON OUR SHELF!!!!
BOTH THE HELIX AND THE CULT ARE AVAILABLE FOR TEST RIDE, AS WELL AS THE REBEL 08, SWITCHBLADE III AND CROSSBOW III....
WE HOPE YOU ENJOY THEM
WINDY REGARDS
WINDSURF N SNOW
