Okay enough is enough.....the new North Dice.

North are on a winner here because the five guys who came of it today were all smiles. I feel this kite will be a big seller this year. It will appeal to a lot of different riders for sure.

As far as bar, construction of kite, all that jazz, its North, so I needn't comment on that. The new bar does look a nice piece of equipement I must say, and damn it was good using the iron heart again, it is still the best way to unspin ya lines I personally feel.

Right o, the 9m in westerly winds, starting near 17 heading way into the mid twenties at times. A little on/off as you would expect and a decent swell running, albeit can always be bigger right. But ultimately it was a perfect day to check out this kites power delivery, boost potential, drift potential and indeed its pull through loops etc.

Ultimately this is a wave kite and I predict it may make the Neo defunct. Never been on the Neo so excuse my ignorance of course. Best to listen to Neo riders who then try the Dice. But I fail to see how one would need a kite that drifts better than this one. I did some really stupid things today in head high and above stuff and you'd have to really be off your game to drop this kite or running down a 12 foot Margaret river face at stupid speeds at least. But for the average conditions most of us play in, what more would you need. I did do something so stupid the kite started to Hindenburg out the sky badly, and yet as I watched it, it kept trying to right itself in the air...so just before it fell in front of a relatively large wave where reef was waiting for it 50m in shore, a small pull and away she went. Time to go in, not my kite, but I'm convinced you'd be trying your best to put this in the drink,

Slack in the lines from aggressive down the lines or just stupid redirection (mine the latter) was taken up quickly with ample time to sort your shte out. What got me is hard to describe but I will try...

It allows a fair degree of park and ride given speed in a board ( can kill all the power at the tip of the throw) on a SB as one of the guys were this stood out, and yet if you need to fly and follow to get to certain sections, sheet in slightly(one handed mostly) and your get enough static grunt to chase down that section or redirect across the window fast to hit the other side of the wave. Its got a bit of both.

I suppose this is translated into its basic power delivery. It provides very quick and direct turning, and yet when one builds up enough speed there is enough drive through the window to lock it off and use some apparent wind to edge upwind. I was on a mako not the most efficient board and there was a period when I was riding a wave all the way into a well know strange wind shadow (but where the wave forms the best) then taking one tack back out and riding the next wave in. Essentially his kite has some decent low end potential given correct flying technique. Being on the edge it is something I always look for in a kite and this has enough on tap to get you back out there.

The power is on/off near the top end of the throw (which goes onto explain killing the kite and riding the wave with little power) but if you are sheeting within the normal range, the power delivery is smooth and linear, with ample feedback. Hence we move into this freeride aspects of this kite...

This linear feedback and power delivery gives you the ability to load, pop and boost. We were all getting reasonable air and unlike something like the vegas, were able to land relatively smoothly without the need for downlooping as such. Drew from WA surf has been on this kite a while now, was in boots and was getting noteable air, twice we were, so plenty of potential to improve. Its no high aspect mother of all Farqer jumper but really controlled with decent vertical pop. Even some relatively inexperienced kiters were getting some reasonable air and doing it with ease. So does it jump? Yes it does.

This direct linear feedback really pulls you through the loops to. Lee was chucking down some back roll back loops and as such and he commented how smoothly it took you through these more powered moves where you knew where the kite was in the window the whole time. So here we have the Vegas DNA working for you. One guy was unhooking a little and the kite looked stable, forgiving with enough slack to probably throw down some minor handle passes, but heck if ya gonna go done that road then you need a Straight Vegas (which we also rode, much improved on 2012, but I'm not interested in that sort of kite so sorry nothing to say on that).

Just a last point, this kite was flown in pretty gusty conditions and kinda small being a 9m (Christ have spent the last 30 session on a 17m zephyr!), and it really had that traditional north stability. I found the 2012 Vegas didn't have that, bloody thing would shoot back and forward in the sky in conditions like today. But this kite didn't do that. Was really well behaved and flew forward in the gusts only to a certain point, then settled back, but not too far. They have positioned this kites flying zone in a really nice position in the window. We say there are no advances in kites over the past three years, but your know what, those who appreciate the small nuances, they can mean a great deal.

A story to really emphasis what a great freeride, wave kite this is...

Had to laugh. My brother god bless him, doesn't read the net or the forums, doesn't really educate himself on different kites. Just rides. Kind of envy that simple approach. Anyhow he had been on the dice for an hour or so, he saw me, he came screaming in, stopped and said...

"Man this kite is unreal, what's it called?". So no prior influences here obviously, lol. He then called back an hour later and said "Farq I really enjoyed that bandit hey"...

Again I feel north are on a winner. Would like to try it a little more and have enough time to start unhooking it in the waves to see how she goes. But I wasn't going to do that on someone else's kite my first time out in those conditions.

Yeh worth demoing folks.

Hope this helps.

Eppo Snr.

eppo, great review thanks for that!

How is the bar pressure and steering forces needed to turn the kite? Let's say compared to Bandit 6 you rode? And to BWS as well, please?

Bandit bit higher but I'm splitting hairs maybe, BWS about the same.

Wouldn't call it light, just right for its purpose. Bar pressure is not an issue mate as I ride edges the lightest around and I hate bar pressure period. Didn't hate this. Just right.

Nice review there mate! .Ill try and add to that on wednesday..sounds good I like the fact that it has the vegas dna in it and has good drift for wave riding.I went on my 2011 vegas on a downwinder today.It doesnt drift the greatiest ,it would be average in terms of surf kites as it is not surf kite.Its tight loop got me out of a few bad situations when I was turning toe side and I needed power quick to avoid geting crunched by a wave.I am hoping the dice has similair loop and lightning quickness of the vegas. I still love to boost to the moon geting upsideown and rolling and I have started to really enjoy waves.This kite is ticking the boxes for me so far.
4 lines too...ooo cant wait!

Mate I personally think the Vegas was a really underrated kite in the surf. Yeh man just has a chat with someone whose almost convinced himself on this kite. I said wait up man, wait up, lets see and look at a few others first and go for another session. Take ya time man.

Ps from someone who has always rushed these things. By the way I didn't add, I spent a couple of minute riding at the kite and then hanging from the font lines (not a recommended practise) and back it would drift. Get Farqed I thought. By the way that's about as far as the thought went so I can only be honest.


Even my bro is thinking of one, although he will be telling everyone he's bought the new bandit...ha ha ha ha ha damn he crack s me up. But hey he's my kiting buddy and best friend so all is good, you want him in ya corner when it counts I can tell ya.

Great to hear a decent review, thanks Eppo.

Couple of questions someone may comment on...

Hows the steering compared to a rebel? Does the bridle make it feel less direct and does it lag at all?

Anyone demoed it in strong wind? I'd like to know how it goes at the top of the range de-powered say compared to a rebel. The thing I like about the rebel is the stability and lack of flutter sheeted out, and its ability to turn/pivot with slack back lines. I'm wondering if the three struts and drift come at a price. Does the dice's canopy flutter much when sheeted out?

Is the bottom end somewhere between the Neo and the Rebel? If one was going from Rebels to the Dice (for riding a SB)... would you choose the same sizes or go up a meter?

Looking forward to a demo but havent got one in SA yet.

Eppo, I know you only had a short time on it but how does it compare to the Ozone Catalyst?

Also is your brother riding North Rebels at the moment because it sounds like he really like the new Dice I mean North bandit...

I will be demoing the Dice in the next week so I will review when I get a chance on one....

james has used his 8 dice in 15 to 28 kn and hes only 62kg. Absolutely loves it . Great stability and realy quick to turn

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pintofpale said..

Great to hear a decent review, thanks Eppo.

Couple of questions someone may comment on...

Hows the steering compared to a rebel? Does the bridle make it feel less direct and does it lag at all?

Anyone demoed it in strong wind? I'd like to know how it goes at the top of the range de-powered say compared to a rebel. The thing I like about the rebel is the stability and lack of flutter sheeted out, and its ability to turn/pivot with slack back lines. I'm wondering if the three struts and drift come at a price. Does the dice's canopy flutter much when sheeted out?

Is the bottom end somewhere between the Neo and the Rebel? If one was going from Rebels to the Dice (for riding a SB)... would you choose the same sizes or go up a meter?

Looking forward to a demo but havent got one in SA yet.

Well I'm no expert on this kite, the retailers and team riders have been in this kite for a while but are not allowed to directly comment...maybe they can give you some snippet answers. It showed, drew had it dialled in far more than us.

Any reason you are comparing this to a rebel man. Very different kites for very different purpose. It wasn't at its top end, but it was getting there at times, behaves really well...but yes you depower it completely it flutters, but not crazily...ps that's what you want on a wave, that's why the rebel is so average in the waves. But it doesn't shoot back and forth....it seems to have a range of movement, so I know what you mean. I also like stable canopies and this is that. Its no rebel, but that thing is unique in its stability in the air. The rebel doesn't flutter when sheeted out because the aspect flies the kite to take the slack up real fast...that's why they are **** unhooked, same as the edge man.

We had riders of 14 seasons, 12 seasons down to 1 season and all felt comfortable on it, even when it was hitting the low to mid twenties.

Direct, surprisingly so, didn't even notice it. If anything I would say the rebel has a slightly more spongy feel. Comparing its ability to turn with slack lines against the rebel is also weird. This is principally a wave kite it wil always outdo the rebel in that department. It turns depowered.

Yeh probably one size up...look you wil never get the low and top end of a higher aspect kite.

Here's my take...keep your rebel and then get a dice as well.

It seems I will never part from my edge, anything I fly of high aspect (including the rebel) doesn't compare it seems. I'm just kidding myself trying to find anything better.

But I could easily get a dice as well for those wave sessions, and to practise some unhooked stuff on the flat..get specific kites for specific purposes I reckon. But for big powered Farq off air days....its the edge, no comprimise.

I feel all rounders are just all averages. (But that's just me of course)

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HappyG said..

Eppo, I know you only had a short time on it but how does it compare to the Ozone Catalyst?

Also is your brother riding North Rebels at the moment because it sounds like he really like the new Dice I mean North bandit...

I will be demoing the Dice in the next week so I will review when I get a chance on one....

Oh no bro has been on the edges for a while now, as soon as he rode one he sold the rebel.

Catalyst...mmm good question. Dice is better. ....only my opinion man. Some crew love the new cat, me I'm not a huge fan. Dice will obviously kill the cat in the surf. Jumping, can't make a call just yet, but you know it pull do the cat as well...similar. Unhooked don't know, cat has more obvious C in it...? Dice has such a weird profile hey...its got a bit of Vegas for sure, but I swear there is some rebel lurking in those wing tips hey.

But maybe too early to call really. Sorry best I can do man.

As I said I feel the guys who have been on them for a while should step the Farq up and answer these questions.

Thanks Eppo great review.... To those guys in Melbourne who have ridden this kite can you post a review PLEASE.....

Looking forward to reading your take Happy G.

I've never been able to demo a Neo here in SA and have been using Rebels for a while in the surf as have a few of the respected wave guys here. The reason I'd like to compare to a Rebel is I like North and the choice here for the surf is between a Rebel and now a Dice which is what our shop stocks. I'd like a four line kite but with stability at the upper end of the range. I cant say I have as much experience as Eppo on different kites.. in fact I have very little. The wind in SA where there is surf to be found is really off and on an often really gusty so we fly a lot at either the top of the range or the bottom (often in the same session) which is why the Rebel works well in the surf here. I love the drift of the smaller rebel (7m) but have to watch the larger size (though its good for my surfing as I find myself going really square on the bottom turn to keep the lines tight in light wind!) I also like the pivot with slack lines though I know some don't like this in a wave kite. I find it useful to be able to pivot the kite while riding straight at it with no pull as opposed to a sweeping turn that generates pull. The rebel seems to be able to do both depending on how hard you pull the bar.

Re turning de-powered. The rebel has the bungy at the back line connection that takes the slack out of the back lines when they are loose so I'd say it is excellent turning de-powered. Did you notice if the Dice has this same system? Considering the comparisons to the Vegas shape etc. I was wondering if this de-powered turning was a feature of the dice, which was why I was asking. As far as I know the dice hasn't been marketed as purely a wave specific kite but I'm also curious Eppo... why would you want a wave kite to flutter sheeted out?

Must admit Im hanging out to try the Dice!

Righto...Ta for your honesty.

Let me be really frank with you.

The rebel is not a wave kite man and it pisses me off and has done for a while that north market it as such. Why do you think they brought out a Neo?

It's a relatively high aspect freeride kite, great for boosting and freeride, that is useable in the waves...e.g a lot better than an edge which is more race and even higher aspect.

High aspect kites will try and hunt to edge of the window. They also will stall if they don't have speed in the wing/board. This is far from ideal when you are slotting yourself into the pit of a double over head wave...in fact it is downright dangerous.

Any Lower aspect kite designed for waves will flutter if you completely depower..infact most kites will. Kites don't like just hanging off the front lines man. But the flutter is only for an instant as you stall and line yourself up into the most pit of the wave. Slight redirection with one hand and its back on. But unlike the rebel it won't pull your sorry ass off the face as you build speed down the line. Apparent wind kicks in on a higher aspect kite, it hunts and wants to farq the edge of the window, the speed, load and pull build accordingly. NOT what you want if you are serious about riding a wave. of course technique can reduce this effect but eventually you can only take it so far...

The vegas gives much more slack in the lines...designed for give crew time to get that bar around, up, through and whatever the hell they are doing...way past my understanding...You could feel that yesterday just on the beach.


The Dice will rape the rebel in the waves, leave it stone cold dead, there is no comparison and not even worth talking about. Steering when depowered, nah not even in the same league. Wave kites need good forward turning, not stalling then racing off to root the edge of the window.

But the rebel will jump higher, longer and give more float in experienced hands, so to will the edge. That's their design profile although the rebel is slightly geared down to allow some imitation of wave riding. of course there are those who are so bloody good they could even make a rebel work okay...but most of us aren't, me included.

One guy LEE who rides wainmens and I would say is probably the best rider down our way, the most aggressive, a really good operator just loved this kite. That speaks volumes for me. And he has exquisite edging skills and can take those wainmens pretty big.

Try one...depends on what you are after. Me i'd keep ya rebel, and consider a dice for when its on like donkey Kong. Or you wanna venture a little into the unhooked stuff.

to eppo ^^^showen your age mate
"for when its on like donkey Kong"
most people wouldn't know what your are on about with this saying .
Great review mate there is no hype B**s**t with you it straight down the line .
What would it be like for mowen the grass and dose it sit at the front of the window and make apparent wind if sining .

Yep had some 1st years, from my age down into the low twenties (who by the way one did his first backroll on it...on a demo kite go figure)...doing just that.

Yeh bloody good question becuase it was one thing I was looking for...i keep saying this but this is THE characteristic the no kite I have ridden matches the Edge, so i can't help looking for it...

The built the Dice I feel, to counter that low end, static pull the neo may not have...?

It does allow with some sining, once board speed is up to lock off somewhat and do the lawn mowing dance..

Upwind is really good. Remember I was on a mako, it was still below 20 when I was on it, and was riding the wave in then tacking out and hitting the next wave coming in and around i went until I did my stupid hindenburg dance and figured I was taking the piss and needed to give to the other lining up.

Yeh this is just fine...

Everyone said it is such a nice easy kite to fly and yet packs a decent punch throught the loops, jumps good (and easy to jump_) and drifts remarkably well...

not the BS drift they mention with some allrounders..yeh it drifts okay you hear all the time....

No no this thing drifts like a Reo...

I asked Sam who rides reo's and he said....mmmm hard to tell, maybe not quite, but then again...he was unsure.

Personally I think the difference is minimal that only the very best would notice.

But...there is a new Reo on the horizon

Cool.. thanks for the perspective.. as suface2air says straight down the line!

I'll demo as soon as one arrives by camel!

^^^^ you should try carrier pegion service just as fast . Once it delivers the wind I will have to demo one for sure .

Big Eppo!!!!!!!!
here in europe(italy)we yust heard something about a new kite called Dice,someone told me ,what is it an ice cream?
no........a kite from north!!!!!
This is racism!!! ratial discrimination!!!!!!!! australian only can play with the new toy?
I have rebels 5 6 7 ,very familiar with strong mistral wind often between 35 40 knots,but like most mediterranean kiters not very familiar with waves more than head high,in my case going from respect to pure fear.
Went to SA(can't wait for going again ) this winter and found famous cape town wind" some too easy with rebel 5" compared to gusty mistral.
please get me right!!! I am talking about wind power ,not surfing skill ,I am learning,often being crasched,every session the washing machine is waiting for me!
every time I have to take care both of rebels speed and boards manouvres so I tried once neo 10 to have an idea (for buying maybe a 7 as they say good for waves never falling) but not a good impression (found like a slow tractor ).
sure I will keep rebels(unbeatable for gusty winds)but need also something easyier for me and since wind now is lacking and Dice is unknown here " I am surfing with your superpost and PGC ones these weeks"
ciao piccio!

Eppo are the 2014 bars different? if so whats changed? cant find much on them via google yet

Pretty sure they released the specs of the bar somewhere I thought I had seen them? Ha ha probably 2013 it all gets mixed up hey!

Well I don't know, it seems a bit the same to me. A more squarer insert which makes the bar a little squarer right in the middle which was very nice to hold one handed. Funny though the dice had the 2013 bar I only know this because the Vegas we flew had the new bar...felt more comfortable in the hands. Other than that I couldn't really tell much diff, but I'm sure there is some new fandangled thing the marketers pull out.

Oh the plastic replaceable insert is seated much better within the bar...I did notice that. Man me and bars I wouldn't know.

Still prefer plastic sheathing, because rope will wear to fast...but I like the iron heart to...can't have it all.

Was talking to the crew today, that's all they could talk about, this kite....I kept saying come on are we just kidding ourselves? But it seems this kite from the first year to the 14th likes it...

Think I need another ride though...

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piccio said..

Big Eppo!!!!!!!!
here in europe(italy)we yust heard something about a new kite called Dice,someone told me ,what is it an ice cream?
no........a kite from north!!!!!
This is racism!!! ratial discrimination!!!!!!!! australian only can play with the new toy?
I have rebels 5 6 7 ,very familiar with strong mistral wind often between 35 40 knots,but like most mediterranean kiters not very familiar with waves more than head high,in my case going from respect to pure fear.
Went to SA(can't wait for going again ) this winter and found famous cape town wind" some too easy with rebel 5" compared to gusty mistral.
please get me right!!! I am talking about wind power ,not surfing skill ,I am learning,often being crasched,every session the washing machine is waiting for me!
every time I have to take care both of rebels speed and boards manouvres so I tried once neo 10 to have an idea (for buying maybe a 7 as they say good for waves never falling) but not a good impression (found like a slow tractor ).
sure I will keep rebels(unbeatable for gusty winds)but need also something easyier for me and since wind now is lacking and Dice is unknown here " I am surfing with your superpost and PGC ones these weeks"
ciao piccio!

Well that's one way to look at it. We are also the lab rats as well and most of you guys will have the luxury of us buying these kites and reviewing them before your season, so I wouldn't complain.

Tractor like, well if you come off a high aspect rebel then you may have felt this.

The rebel feels like a tractor to me compared to the edge and the dice doesn't feel like a tractor to me.

Keep following man some more reviews coming from us kite lab rats.

Hey guys,

For your info - the bar has been released. Check it out: www.wasurf.com.au/collections/kites/2014

Sorry for the blatent plug. Had a session on the 12m today - loved it. Can't say any more hopefully out on the 7m tomorrow!

Drew

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eppo said..

Well that's one way to look at it. We are also the lab rats as well and most of you guys will have the luxury of us buying these kites and reviewing them before your season, so I wouldn't complain.

Tractor like, well if you come off a high aspect rebel then you may have felt this.

The rebel feels like a tractor to me compared to the edge and the dice doesn't feel like a tractor to me.

Keep following man some more reviews coming from us kite lab rats.

Did you fly the new Vegas 2014 ? How is the bar pressure on the Dice compared to Vegas ?

Yeh i did but mate I'm a freestylers assehole...infact I'm the sphincter inside the asshole...

But yeh it had way more slack in the lines when you hung off the front lines than the dice which I have learnt is what they are looking for. I will tell you it flies a damn lot better than the 2012 model but everyone knows they fixed that with the 2013 model...

I did some gay lord loops and stuff but I was keen to get back on the dice so wasnt out long on it. I know some crew who aren't even the sphincter rode it back and forward and they liked the consistent power delivery. One bloke was unhooking it and doing a few powered jumps but that was all. I rode it really becuase the new bar was on the vegas not the dice.

This needs its own post and people who can actually use it properly to comment, sorry all i got for ya.

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eppo said..

...infact I'm the sphincter inside the asshole...

.

... tee hee,,, so ,,, does that mean you don't freestyle,,,, just wondering seeing as your being a bit subtle in your description ???

Actually I really like it..I just can't do it!! I like all forms of kiting, especially those who can skull a beer before they land on a big jump...Darwinian style!

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eppo said..
Actually I really like it..I just can't do it!! I like all forms of kiting, especially those who can skull a beer before they land on a big jump...Darwinian style!

... tee hee, yeah,,,, I've been know to do that occasionally!!

I funny little story, I'd just come in from a session in Bali, grabbed a beer as its what you do. Then a bunch more guys followed so I landed 5 or so kites in a row. Thinking nothing of it, I walked back to my seat when a euro came up and asked, "how do you do this?".

A bit puzzled, I asked him, "what did he mean?"

He then said, "I have never seen some one land kites this way before".

Still puzzled, I asked him again, "ummm, what do you mean?".

"With one hand only!.

He chuckled at me with a big grin as I realized I landed all the kites one handed because I had a beer in the other. I am so used to landing kites with a beer in one hand and these guys struggled to even hold the kite with 2 hands, had him bamboozeled.

anyway,

cheers,

Robbie

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Puetz said...

eppo said..
Actually I really like it..I just can't do it!! I like all forms of kiting, especially those who can skull a beer before they land on a big jump...Darwinian style!

... tee hee, yeah,,,, I've been know to do that occasionally!!

I funny little story, I'd just come in from a session in Bali, grabbed a beer as its what you do. Then a bunch more guys followed so I landed 5 or so kites in a row. Thinking nothing of it, I walked back to my seat when a euro came up and asked, "how do you do this?".

A bit puzzled, I asked him, "what did he mean?"

He then said, "I have never seen some one land kites this way before".

Still puzzled, I asked him again, "ummm, what do you mean?".

"With one hand only!.

He chuckled at me with a big grin as I realized I landed all the kites one handed because I had a beer in the other. I am so used to landing kites with a beer in one hand and these guys struggled to even hold the kite with 2 hands, had him bamboozeled.

anyway,

cheers,

Robbie

You could of knocked back a six pack in dongara that day puetzy,

Hi EPPO,

How is it compare to Wainman ?

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cauncy said..

Puetz said...

eppo said..

Actually I really like it..I just can't do it!! I like all forms of kiting, especially those who can skull a beer before they land on a big jump...Darwinian style!

... tee hee, yeah,,,, I've been know to do that occasionally!!



I funny little story, I'd just come in from a session in Bali, grabbed a beer as its what you do. Then a bunch more guys followed so I landed 5 or so kites in a row. Thinking nothing of it, I walked back to my seat when a euro came up and asked, "how do you do this?".



A bit puzzled, I asked him, "what did he mean?"



He then said, "I have never seen some one land kites this way before".



Still puzzled, I asked him again, "ummm, what do you mean?".



"With one hand only!.



He chuckled at me with a big grin as I realized I landed all the kites one handed because I had a beer in the other. I am so used to landing kites with a beer in one hand and these guys struggled to even hold the kite with 2 hands, had him bamboozeled.



anyway,



cheers,



Robbie

You could of knocked back a six pack in dongara that day puetzy,

... you could make an easy bet I would!