Hi All,

It is great to see kiters / manufacturers / and retailers all on Seabreeze. It is disappointing though to see a few people with agendas slagging off on other peoples products.

DragonPig - Take your issue direct to the manufacturer direct if you have no satisfaction with the retailer.

Berwick and Sickshesh - Everyone can see through your slander and BS. by all means if you have something constructive to add then add substance. But baseless claims like this in a public forum, could open you both up to litigation.

Cardboards vs Underground - I am disgusted that manufacturers are now attacking one another publicly. Keep it inhouse, i don't think the verbals on this forum is placing either company in good form. Both are great products, and i think keep the Kiwi vs Ozzy vs Who has the less products made in China debate alone. We don't friggin care. We just want good boards from both companies.


KR

I just don't care

oh thats why i never got a reply to my emails.. still waiting for those trees to grow eh?

id probably rather ride adrians china pops outs for two reasons:
1) they ride ****n awsome
2) they actually get made and delivered
3) RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

Hey i agree with dragonpig! i have 2 new 2010 boards found the straps to be not up to standard!! boards are great much better than 2009 version. took 2010 boards back to shop & complained & they swapped the straps over for me from the 2009 boards. PROBLEM solved! Found the handle to be crap as you said! 2009 a lot better but unfortunately can't be swapped.

off topic here but who actually uses a handle these days?

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kyteryder said...

Hi All,

It is great to see kiters / manufacturers / and retailers all on Seabreeze.

Cardboards vs Underground - I am disgusted that manufacturers are now attacking one another publicly. Keep it inhouse, i don't think the verbals on this forum is placing either company in good form. Both are great products, and i think keep the Kiwi vs Ozzy vs Who has the less products made in China debate alone. We don't friggin care. We just want good boards from both companies.

I think that it's a good thing for the punter - like myself to hear what these guys have to say. I'm in the market for a new board as I miss having a twintip. I'd prefer to have the better designed, R&D'd, tested board, that is made out of the best materials with the best finish, at the best price.

I've had an NZ made Underground board before and would happy to buy a Chinese one. In these days of globalisation it seems inevitable that once a manufacturing company reaches a certain size production in the developing country makes economic sense. Making a kite board isn't rocket science - but keeping quality control procedures in place is important to make sure the product stays as good as it was before it went 'offshore'.

It seems like Underground is doing the right thing by having right people oversee production of the boards - the footstraps might have been an oversight or a manufacturing f.up or ripoff?!

If Cardboards showed a bit of restraint, integrity and respect to one of the pioneers and current leaders of making quality boards and fins I'd be more interested in supporting them! Whether it is made by some Chinese 'slave' - who gives a ..... I know that a lot of us feel like slaves when we go to work here anyway!

You don't care whether products are made in australia or not
Well I suggest you do care boys. All things being equal you'd be stupid not to go for Ozzy made! & I'm happy for people to bring up things they're not happy with about products. But agree poor form one manufacturer attacking another. Clearly biased & unprofessional.
I ride & would recommend either brand.
Hope UG sorts out the strap problem soon rather later.
Cheers COL

Yeah i agree it is poor form, and would like to apologize for lowering myself to that level, i guess i get a little patriotic and a bit over zest on the keyboard.

Cheers Dan
Cardboards

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Card said...

Adrian

We all know why any company moves their operation to ASIA, and it’s not for better quality.

Steve [Quote: Undergrounds are super popular at all of our store locations, and are widely regarded as one of the very best riding boards on the market made by poeple who kite] I highly doubt the cheap Chinese slaves workers would even know what they are making. it would be no more than a job to them. And the popularity in your shops wouldn't have anything to do with the huge margins you are so accustom to making from these boards, around twice that of ours! I would hope most people can read between the lines!

Cardboards is Australian owned and operated, we support as much local industry and product as possible, all our timber cores are grown and milled here in OZ, all our ABS plastic and fiberglass are made here in OZ, SUPPORTING LOCAL JOBS!

Rant over

Dan
Cardboards
made in Australia

Well Dan, youse damn well should apolgise!
Slagging off at us retailers for trying to make an honest buck, but at the same time selling direct from your own website, with no retail overheads and making triple what a shop does.
Setting up dumb retailers and then selling right into the same suburb direct at triple profit margin, noice work!

I think everyone can read whatever they want.

Some people like your boards, good for them. I've ridden them, they are ok, but you have tended to go "under" things for ideas, haven't you?

However we sell what we like definitely not what some salesman/non kiter tries to tell us. Thats why we sell several brands, some of which return more to the business than others, Underground is on the lower end, however they are still then biggest seller in all 3 shops.
Why?
Could it be because they ride so good and have the best possible structure, components, innovations and support? Probably, in my opinion.

I've seen everybrand of board break, Underground handle warranty better than any company I've dealt with.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Great way to bury the hatchet steve!! Good on ya....

For your information any of our retailers that has a board sold direct in their area has the commission go back to them!


Cheers Dan
Cardboards

you guys sound like a bunch of batty boys kiss and make up

ding ding to your corners. code vialation

Right guys,

I started this thread so hopefully i can now put it to rest.

Adrian got hold of me the same day i posted my complaint , i just needed to take some pics so i could send them to him. I did that today and immediately i got a mail back from him and the supplier here saying this "Pls let me know where you are, and I will courier a pair of replacement to you immediately". I could not ask for more. Obviously it helps that i live in HK but im sure that this would have been the reaction had i been anywhere else in the world!

Thank you Underground !

I sell Card boards. Why? I ride them, I think they are a great board If I have had a warranty issue it's sorted nice & Quick, no prob. I or the customer can talk with Dan for a custom or a better understanding of the board thay might need, & that's always good. As a kiter first & retaler second as a priority. I would think that Dan to making the board in his own factory. dealing with customers retail, whoesale, for so long, Is a very passionat kiter. With a very good product.

For the customer I belive thay are getting a fantastic board at a great price, with a good back up service, & the ability to refine or custom there board as thay wish.
as well as having spear parts at the shop to replace fins, straps, pads, so on.
I would love to see better margins in the boards, but to support this product as a Australian product & QLDR & give the customer the option of buying this product, is a fine balance, I think.

I don't sell Underground would love to as well, I think I have tryed to look at them but with no response. Thay are a fine product as well.

A Mate of Mine Arron used to go off on them, He may have won 1 or 2 surf nat on them?

I have tried a number of UG boards too and have yet to come across one that I'd say 'that's bad'. Graphics is good too. However I have also seen a number of breakages. I say for anyone starting or inexperieced riders, go for something stronger. I dont think there is such a thing as a top board with no faults? That will be the day.

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Sickshesh said...

im not a member but i had to sign up to say how useless Underground boards are. From NZ myself i see UG boards snapped monthly, and hear report after report of Adrian not giving out warranties from the riders that are snapping them. Pretty sad actually when they cost so much, though now they only cost $750 NZ probably cus of all the issues they keep having
have a look here:
www.trademe.co.nz/sports/kites-kitesurfing/kitesurfing/auction-226630152.htm


You cant argue with that, come fly over to NZ yourself and ask anyone at the beach lol sooner or later people will realise how bad these boards are compared with the industry standard (though probably really good if your a learner, and btw i learnt on one and it was really good untill I started jumping)

Theres only one reason you got your replacement - you publicly exposed them and they are forced to do something about it to avoid damage to their image.

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Dragonpig said...

Right guys,

I started this thread so hopefully i can now put it to rest.

Adrian got hold of me the same day i posted my complaint , i just needed to take some pics so i could send them to him. I did that today and immediately i got a mail back from him and the supplier here saying this "Pls let me know where you are, and I will courier a pair of replacement to you immediately". I could not ask for more. Obviously it helps that i live in HK but im sure that this would have been the reaction had i been anywhere else in the world!

Thank you Underground !

i saw a 6 month old underground board with the bottom totally peeled off on saturday at my beach, apparently a known fault and is being replaced under warranty

Turning AMERICAN?
why is it when we break a board or anything we automatically call warrenty? lets sue these bastards! Cant we just except we break **** and wear and tear is a factor in our lives! isnt that why we work to replace/upgrade our kits?
I love it when I break or damage something un-necessarily, it allows me the joys of buying something new and to upgrade without a massive debate with the significant other!
We've all broken boards, Im sure I have anyway, from many different companies, at varying ages of boards lives-Im sure this has got way outta hand, as this was a quiry about straps rather than a Great Debate about retail warrenty-
Really who cares what shops make what mark up? Doesnt every business deserve to make money, profit is not a dirty word, as long as we can justify our spendings to live the lives we want-
My 2 cents worth-

robe you sound like a loaded mofo... i think you should buy me boards too not everyone makes a **** ton of money and can buy boards every month haha **** im happy if i can buy one a yr..

aas for breakages if you show me a company that has never had a board break or delam i will be very very impressed. and then i will also show you your fulll of sh!t by breaking it ;)

I popped a blue bottle with my 08 UG just the other day and the friggin blue bottle came out tops nothing a bit of araldite couldn't fix. but i will be taking it a bit easier on my board.. no more riding it up the beach

After giving your UG board a saucer of warm lite milk its good to see Milko your board made a full recovery. Tried the same with a cardboards and it ran to a corner and sulked,fixed its hair, battered its eyelids but unfortunately did not make a full recovery.
Constant winds,
Baz.

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rusty7 said...

I suggest you contact them before the Bledislow cup starts.....i don't think Aussies are gonna very popular with the Kiwi's after the series this year

So how did that work out ?

Wow..... my eyes are hurting after reading all that! Why, O' why did i continue to read through the pain to witness another petty drama unfold.

I agree with Dragonpig. His initial post is a fair call on a forum that is here to bring the good and bad of products to the consumer from the consumer, this sort of discussion happens at most beaches everyday anyway; where honest people have a gear issue and ask other users if they have had similar problems with theirs. Unfortunately it can prove impossible to discuss without the ever present 'ego's' or 'ulterior motives' jumping in with their say. Thank god these ego's and ulterior motives often stand out like dogs balls and are easy to avoid. Especially on forums!!!

To Dragon Pig: I know a rider who had a similar issue. He asked his shop owner, who in turn asked UG, and the issue was to my knowledge was soon resolved. "Proof of a brand standing behind the quality of their product"

And as for the...which brand is best discussion???? I don't think this was what dragaon pig was asking.....but:
my mate reckons UG Boards are great, and his wife reckons north boards are the best, her mate reckons naish rules the world and his mate will ride nothing but airush. At the end of the day it's not the board/brand it's the kiters responsibility to research their purchase.
Words of advice
A) read the forums and reviews- if you can decipher honesty from BS.
B) Ask your local fellow kiters or kite shop to demo a board or two.
C) Buy that which feels best to you for what you want to do.
D) Stick with said brand if it holds up well and/or if the brand sticks behind the quality of the product should something with in reason and common sense happen early in your purchase life of the product.


I do not ride UG, I just purchased a crazy fly raptor 132-41, which I love... One of the screws has poped out of the foot strap twice before, both when I landed hard and fast. But Maybe this forum has become the place NOT to ask fellow kiters if they have had similar problems. So I might just go to my local shop owner and see if he can help. After all, I have only had the board a week! and my eyes are too sore to have to read through another pile of ego fueled, ulterior motive, who is better than who BS...

after this experience I doubt you shall find me on here very often at all
Adios amigos

Hey Paul who would of thought 3 zip!!! .....I forgot it isn't a world cup year, the AB's can still win the odd game. But it would appear that the Kiwi's resolved the origonal posters problem so I guess its all good. Shyt I wish my leg was healed and i could spend time on the water instread of drifting through this crap!.

It's good to come back after being away from the forum over the winter and see the site is still as vibrant as ever......................

I've had 4 underground boards cracked 1, the rest were fine.
I have no complaints after using UG boards over the last 4 years.
Sometimes things break don't have a cry about it just accept sometimes boards break from time to time.
I've dealt directly with Adrian and found him to be more than helpful.
The only criticism I could ever put forward in my experience with Underground is the delays on getting boards, it took way too long!!!!
That should change now they are made in China.

And too much spray in your face on earlier FLX's.

I can't comment on much because i don't have any experience with ug but i just bought a Cardboard tempo and got it within 5 days of ordering it at my door. I haven't had it long but my first impressions are incredible. It's increased my love for the sport tenfold. I guess it's each to there own but i couldn't be happier with mine
Thanks Col

Just for the sake of discussion I have an Underground FLX and a custom made Cardboard.

The FLX is completely indestructable. I'm actually at the point where I want it to wear out so I can buy a new one but it won't break. After hundres of hours of riding, including riding up over the beach, there are only minor cosmetic scratches.

The Cardboard is a custom made to my own specifications. The plastic base is a little softer and the scratches tend to go deeper (so I don't ride it over the beach), but in every way that matters it performs flawlessly.

Nice post Gorgo,

Well balanced and honest. I know both Dan and Adrian and can tell you both make excellent boards and both are extremely passionate about their craft.

With all my understanding, both Adrian and Dan back up their boards with excellent service. Must also add in at this point that Stonker (another Aussie manufacturer) also provide great service and tops boards.

I've not seen any of the later model UG boards break, nor have I seen a CB break, I'm sure it happens as with all boards from time to time, but both manufacturers back their product and provide legendary service in the Kiteboarding world. So I don't understand how anyone can have an axe to grind with either board manufacturer.

Just a side note, most of the big board manufacturers make great boards these days and also back up with great warranty. The main players in the industry are pretty good these days.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation nor do I sell any items from any of manufacturers mentioned above. I just reckon it's great to see smaller home grown brands representing (Well UG is almost home grown )

Cheers,

KH

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Kitehard said...

Nice post Gorgo,

Well balanced and honest. I know both Dan and Adrian and can tell you both make excellent boards and both are extremely passionate about their craft.

With all my understanding, both Adrian and Dan back up their boards with excellent service. Must also add in at this point that Stonker (another Aussie manufacturer) also provide great service and tops boards.

I've not seen any of the later model UG boards break, nor have I seen a CB break, I'm sure it happens as with all boards from time to time, but both manufacturers back their product and provide legendary service in the Kiteboarding world. So I don't understand how anyone can have an axe to grind with either board manufacturer.

Just a side note, most of the big board manufacturers make great boards these days and also back up with great warranty. The main players in the industry are pretty good these days.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation nor do I sell any items from any of manufacturers mentioned above. I just reckon it's great to see smaller home grown brands representing (Well UG is almost home grown )

Cheers,

KH

nice to see some nice words said about companies that you dont sell. Too much bad mouthing in the kite industry IMHO

I've got 310 hours on the FLX and 80 on the Cardboard.

i snapped my underground board landing a biggish jump in deep water and underground didnt want to know about it as they stated that the board was in its second season of use and that there were deep scratches or gouges on the heelside rail from riding in shallow water causing structural weakness. being a timber core board i dont believe this to be true but there you have it. KitePower offered me a new board at a cheaper rate to compensate but this is the shop making up for the manufacterers lack of help.while i liked the board i wont buy another underground board again for myself as they obviously cant withstand the abuse a 100kg rider gives for more than 1 season and after paying nearly a grand for a board i personally dont have the cash to do this every year.
the leason learned is dont buy something over the net but go to a local shop where you can speak with the staff and if something breaks speak to them face to face. havingsaid that KP do some pretty good deals.