Select to expand quote

suniboy21 said..

skywalker3d said..

apepene43 said..
The new bar with below bar depower still has a swivel though doesnt it.But yeah why would you make a new bar with mo swivel good point

It is a little crazy to not put a swivel on it i agree. But i thought i would try it before i raced out to get a swivel and i find im not sure weather i need one yet. Most of my trick involve kite loops also so they do twist but i then do reverse trick or kite loop to unswivel. It seems to be working ok so fare.

So that explains why at every transition there's either a Loop with a trick or a trick with a loop!

Your going to froth over the fuel when you get a burn!

LOL yeah you might convert me to a C kite. Could be convenient having Stonker so close also hahaha

Sorry Guys I was being sarcastic.... Being the fact the kiter is the "Below the bar Swivel".... having to loop the kite or loop themselves to untangle the front lines.

Sorry Naish $550.00 bar NO SWIVEL.... WTF

Yeah Eppo totally agree man The Pivot is nice but the bar is a shocker....

Select to expand quote

skywalker3d said..

suniboy21 said..

skywalker3d said..

apepene43 said..
The new bar with below bar depower still has a swivel though doesnt it.But yeah why would you make a new bar with mo swivel good point

It is a little crazy to not put a swivel on it i agree. But i thought i would try it before i raced out to get a swivel and i find im not sure weather i need one yet. Most of my trick involve kite loops also so they do twist but i then do reverse trick or kite loop to unswivel. It seems to be working ok so fare.

So that explains why at every transition there's either a Loop with a trick or a trick with a loop!

Your going to froth over the fuel when you get a burn!

LOL yeah you might convert me to a C kite. Could be convenient having Stonker so close also hahaha

Stonka(murray) good bloke with the right attitude....

Just spent a couple of weeks on Maui - was using an 8m most days and a 10m on others - awesome kite!!

SO Hargs, how was the bar LOL

After owning the 7, 9 and 11m for a year I am so used to the above the bar swivel not working that I may as well have no swivel. A below the bar manual swivel is seriously lacking. I believe then it would be the perfect combination of bar and kite. I still love my old Ozone bar.

Select to expand quote

skywalker3d said..

eppo said..
The best swivel I meant.

If you fcktards think that paying top price for a bar without means to swivel out the front lines then go right ahead.

but I suspect you are like most on here, keyboard heroes with fckall kite skills. The naish bar is a dog, but hey go right ahead And support such a piss poor design as you probably wouldn't no sh1t from clay anyway.

Sounds to me you are the key board hero on here as your the one that's started the hero typing. Or just a forum junky with no life... Loser!!
If you have nothing nice to say don't comment and just go and self abuse yourself.

You called me retarded first...
Differences is I can back it up with my riding kook. I need a swivel though...

After reading a lot about this kite I had demo the 10 2015 on low 20 gusting winds up to 30 knots. Love the kite. It is true what everyone writes about them. My only observation is the size. I have lay the kite on top of my 12 REO 2012 and 12 SOLO 2015 kite and is almost the same size. I will said the 10 is like a 11.5 meter kite. Cheers

I don't know which is the bigger deal breaker: no swivel, or the big black dongs where the floats are supposed to be...

Does the 2015 bar have a swivel?

Select to expand quote

moons said...
Does the 2015 bar have a swivel?

Yup, it has a swivel but you often have to unwind it by hand. I started a thread asking about the best swivels and I'm going to replace my naish one with a liquid force one. I actually like the 2015 bar but some don't as it only comes with below the bar depower.

I would rather no swivel before under bar depower any day. I have used the 2015 North bar, Naish bar, Airush bar, Best bar and 2014 Wainman bar. I find the new 2016 Naish bar to still be the winner. Don't knock me until you have tried it and don't tell me i just mow the lawn unless you know me!!! I have a bucket of bars to choice from and i go to the new Naish one as i cant fault it at this stage. I know control bars are a personal chose so this is just my opinion.

Why do you prefer to have no swivel under the bar...and obviously no swivel at all now?

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Why do you prefer to have no swivel under the bar...and obviously no swivel at all now?

I don't mind under the bar swivel. The Airush one works ok the North one is very stiff to turn. The wife uses the north bar and can not even turn it so no point it being there. Catch is north has hi Y and i would rather low Y.

So if you have a swivel that does not work properly you have to try and un turn it while riding. If you have below bar you have to turn it while riding. If you have no swivel you just do nothing, if you do a trick just do the reverse simple

I cant believe i have to explain this to eppo the GOD OF KITING!!

... from a super heavy weights perspective: I tried the Pivot recently, and thought it was a nice enough kite but have to limit my opinions because it was only a 12m and wind wasn't good enough for me,,, kind of. My shear bulk demands big powerful kites but figured, 15 to 20 knots should give me an idea.

It felt simple to use and didn't have the characteristics I disliked in the previous version, with more even linear bar pressure and turning pressure. Older version felt kind of disconnected between the front and back lines with either too much or not enough bar pressure. Not this one, much better. It felt like it would be nice in waves and went upwind well enough but it isn't a race kite either which I prefer. I got it to pivot turn very fast, on a dime as they say so it lived up to its name. I figure it would be very nice in waves for a fly and follow wave rider like me but I have no idea if it would drift for long periods like a dedicated wave kite demands. I thought it was very similar to the Dice in that regard. I only had wind swell when I tested the kite so it kind of felt like it would drift.

On the same day, I gave the kite to the missus who is half my weight. She liked it enough and had plenty of power with good upwind but the bar put her off so much so that she thought it was dangerous. She wanted to depower the kite and couldn't pull it, she didn't have the strength,,,,,, below the bar depower was too hard for her. I tried and found it not so easy but then again I'm silverback gorilla size dude so I'd only give that a 1 out of 10 for ease of use. We later discovered from the local dealer he had given us the wrong bar. Ok, try again later we thought.

Next day, wind ok and yes, we had the right bar this time with above the bar depower. Missus had first ride and she felt safer and could easily depower the kite and it rode well enough but definitely not enough power for me. It is a 12m and I wouldn't even dream of using a 12m in those conditions we had that day so fair is fair, wind wasn't good enough for me. We gave the kite to my son to try and he went and did a bunch of flicky flicky stuff and said kite was good but not big enough but again, the wind wasn't flash enough. I reminded him it was a 12m after all and he commented that it had good power then for a 12m. It didn't have the slack line thing he likes but I told him you can't have your cake and eat it too, its more of a all rounder compared to his Vegas.

I grabbed the kite after him and noticed that the front lines were twisted. I went to un-twist them and bugger me, no swivel. Hmmmm, is this an over sight. Nope, that's how it is. None of us liked this but figure you could get used to it, just got to remember to loop the kite the other way.

The problem I would have is that because of my fly and follow wave style technique, I tend to loop the kite one way as I'm riding a wave so after a few waves and I haven't been paying attention, the front would be twisted miles up. Some times I am having such a good time that I would forget and even a high Y North bar gets twisted so I could imagine the un-swivelled bar like the Naish would be a nightmare for me.

Anyway, apart from the bar thing, its a nice kite. Oh and must not forget, I thought the build quality was great.

cheers,

Robbie

Select to expand quote

skywalker3d said..

eppo said..
Why do you prefer to have no swivel under the bar...and obviously no swivel at all now?

I don't mind under the bar swivel. The Airush one works ok the North one is very stiff to turn. The wife uses the north bar and can not even turn it so no point it being there. Catch is north has hi Y and i would rather low Y.

So if you have a swivel that does not work properly you have to try and un turn it while riding. If you have below bar you have to turn it while riding. If you have no swivel you just do nothing, if you do a trick just do the reverse simple

I cant believe i have to explain this to eppo the GOD OF KITING!!

Well it was just a simple question, no need for the last line. You were quick to have a go at me when I fired up.

The north one is just fine (used multiple bars over many years and so do the other lads), the airush one is fine to (can be a bit small in your hand to turn) but it's a lot better than having none at all.

Trust me you needn't explain anything to me, you seem to be making a fine mess of it all by yourself. But of course I'm sure the peanut gallery will support your stupid theory that no swivel is just fine. I just hope informed readers and those that are new; reading to learn will appreciate a contrarian view to yours.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

But of course I'm sure the peanut gallery will support your stupid theory that no swivel is just fine.

No swivel is just fine. ^^^

And no trimmer is fine also.

And no death-leash is so fine.

And no stupid bar-bling is simply fine.

Well I like my North Swivel.. though its been that long since I used the bloody thing I cant remember why I like it.

Select to expand quote

skywalker3d said..
I would rather no swivel before under bar depower any day. I have used the 2015 North bar, Naish bar, Airush bar, Best bar and 2014 Wainman bar. I find the new 2016 Naish bar to still be the winner. Don't knock me until you have tried it and don't tell me i just mow the lawn unless you know me!!! I have a bucket of bars to choice from and i go to the new Naish one as i cant fault it at this stage. I know control bars are a personal chose so this is just my opinion.

at least you don't own that Ozone rubbish, them bars are SHizzza!

Never had a problem with the original pivot kite or bar, I think this kite is awesome!! I really haven't had any of the problems people say, you just have to read most the reviews.
Just my experience!

Select to expand quote

waveslave said..

eppo said..

But of course I'm sure the peanut gallery will support your stupid theory that no swivel is just fine.

No swivel is just fine. ^^^

And no trimmer is fine also.

And no death-leash is so fine.

And no stupid bar-bling is simply fine.

Add to that list no CL & you have the BRM CCS bar.

just saying

Select to expand quote

Puetz said..
She wanted to depower the kite and couldn't pull it, she didn't have the strength,,,,,, below the bar depower was too hard for her. I tried and found it not so easy

This isn't a strength issue, it's a technique issue.
Below the bar de-power kites don't need a lot of strength. Come off your edge, push the bar away and sheet. It just takes a little practice and anybody who owns one quickly becomes accustomed to it.

The pivot is supposed to be a free ride/WAVE kite... How can you market it as a wave kite without a swivel.
In larger waves you often have to rapidly loop the kite to keep it moving and to not get ahead of it..... Then tack back out to the take off spot usually untwist the lines as u go... This is where the below bar swivel works well.
No swivel no thanks

I bought both bars, the above bar depower but no swivel, and the below bar depower with swivel. After two weeks of intense riding and trying both bars I am going back to the store to:

1. Swap the below bar depower for above (it works ok, but because I lend my kites to lots of people, they find it too difficult to 'use the proper technique' to depower)
2. Get swivels retrofitted to both bars (above depower). I agree, that there is no real logic in this day and age to exclude a swivel...

I also agree that the Naish swivel is not really effective, by week two it had gunked up and stopped working. I had no spray on the island to lube it etc. I had to manually untwist with back rolls and front rolls / loops etc.

Still loving the 2016 Pivots, I've probably racked up 50 hours on them now. I managed to put one in a dead tree with jagged branches in a landing gone wrong (I kited over to an island to see a friend who was camping on it but the wind was all weird...). Fortunately the double rip stop fabric woks well, no holes!

Also, can the two or three guys take their personal squabble away from this review thread please. You guys have wasted a whole page having a go at each other.

Select to expand quote

Macster said..
I bought both bars, the above bar depower but no swivel, and the below bar depower with swivel. After two weeks of intense riding and trying both bars I am going back to the store to:

1. Swap the below bar depower for above (it works ok, but because I lend my kites to lots of people, they find it too difficult to 'use the proper technique' to depower)
2. Get swivels retrofitted to both bars (above depower). I agree, that there is no real logic in this day and age to exclude a swivel...

I also agree that the Naish swivel is not really effective, by week two it had gunked up and stopped working. I had no spray on the island to lube it etc. I had to manually untwist with back rolls and front rolls / loops etc.

Still loving the 2016 Pivots, I've probably racked up 50 hours on them now. I managed to put one in a dead tree with jagged branches in a landing gone wrong (I kited over to an island to see a friend who was camping on it but the wind was all weird...). Fortunately the double rip stop fabric woks well, no holes!

Also, can the two or three guys take their personal squabble away from this review thread please. You guys have wasted a whole page having a go at each other.

You should really reconsider lending your kites to other people if they cant work out below the bar depower... unless you enjoy repairing broken kites.

The below bar depower is pretty easy to use really ........

Agreed, smooth as!

Select to expand quote

toppleover said..

waveslave said..

eppo said..

But of course I'm sure the peanut gallery will support your stupid theory that no swivel is just fine.

No swivel is just fine. ^^^

And no trimmer is fine also.

And no death-leash is so fine.

And no stupid bar-bling is simply fine.

Add to that list no CL & you have the BRM CCS bar.

just saying

There's no typical chicken-loop on my gear. ^^^

The Cloud bar design surprised me when it was first revealed a few years back.

It closely resembled my custom set-up that I'd been using forever.

lol.

Though I love a good stir as much the next person, can anyone confirm that this isn't just the 'Base control system'? Naish have had a cheaper bar in the range without a swivel for a number of years now. It would be logical if this was that base spec bar but with a different trim system rather than the ATB system that has always had a swivel.

How different is the 2015 Pivot to the 2016? is it worth the $700+ mark up?