I am wondering about the benefits/differences between getting a light wind specific kite or just the biggest size of a certain kite. I am a heavier rider at 105kgs, intermediate skill level.

First of all I should say that i am not really looking to push the threshold of light wind riding I am more looking for a lively fun ride in low to moderate winds. Living in perth we get a lot of days (off season) in the 10 to 15 knot range and this is what I am really looking to take advantage of but realistically would be looking more for something performing best between 12 to 18 knots. My style is probably 60% freeride and 40% waves, waves are my main focus but the conditions here don't always line up.

Basically I would just like a relatively fast turning lively kite that jumps well and has good drift/stability for waves. I am thinking I would be cruising on a surfboard at about 10 to 12 knots and boosting on a twin tip at about 15 to 18 knots.

The main differences as i see it are that a light wind kite will have much better low end, be lighter and stay in the air better and possibly have faster turning for it size? But the downside may be that it does not hold well in stronger winds and may jellyfish, deform or just be too overpowered. The 14 or 15m will definitely have less low end but a better high end and may turn faster? but may also be heavier build, less lively and not be as stable in light winds?

Now before anyone points out the obvious and says demo demo demo and that all kites are different and you need to find one that suits I have to say that i'm not looking to spend the $2500 that it will cost for a top end light wind kite and am looking to pick up one of the 1000's of second hand kites available or something new if i can get a deal.

Kites on my radar include:

ozone zephyr (but does it work in waves?)

North juice in 15m or maybe 18m

naish fly

griffin trx in 14m or 17m

Naish park or pivot in 14m

liquid force solo 15. 5m

liquid force envy 15m

any info on any of these or general opinions on the 14m vs light wind would be much appreciated thanks guys

A true lightwind specific kite is a totally different kite than a bigger sized kite, the newer models are quicker handling than you'd think, my 12 mtr hadlow c kite is marginally quicker than my old 2013 zephyr, same as the bigger c4 I trialed, once you get over that 10 mtr size most kites and brands really lose their feel, some brands continue with the same design through sizes where others individual design each size for performance, it's a tough one especially with waves , and I don't think any brand has that mastered , a kite in low wind being driven in swell is always trying to catch up , I'd rather be overpowered at my local than underpowered even if you have to sacrifice some of the attributes you want

Ocean Rodeo Flite?

There's an average Joe video review floating around of light wind kites, and theyve got some clydesdales in there too... Kiteforum.com has the link.

Thanks for the reply cauncy that is definitely along my line of thought, i am usually looking to be more overpowered than underpowered and i can imagine a light wind kite would be much more lively and fun in low to moderate winds.

Kamikuza thanks I have seen that review and the Flyte really seems like the one, they also did a review of the north juice up against the flyte and the flute still topped it (in their opinions at least)

I had the same idea as you... I bought a 14m Fuse to use in marginal conditions. Im a bit lighter than you (82kg) and with a Nugget I could go as low as 13knts at a push. For me I would need 15-18 to use a TT. I found overall that the 14m for me did expand my session quota but there seemed to be alot of variation and possibly simply having a larger size 'normal' kite wasn't the best strategy... I would easily get overpowered if a couple more knts appeared. Having said that I had alot of great sessions on it but I now only go up to a 12m. I ended up buying a foil board which I'm still learning to ride but once I've gotten going huge kites will be redundant (thats the theory anyway).

I am exactly the same weight as you. I had this vision of unhooking and having amazing sessions in 11-16ish knots, but it just wasn't meant to be....

I tried a Naish fly and contra, both 15m. I found them to be a waist of time for my style. In my experience a fast turning 12-14m kite was miles better. The big kites I tried just pulled downwind like a truck and weren't much fun. A super underpowered session on my 12m was way more fun than being powered on the 15m for example. I was on a 140 twintip with boots though... I sold my 15m after 2 months..

Depends on what you like though, some people love their big kites. Even at our weight I hated them. I think if you are going to be riding surfboards or an oversized twintip, you would probably really enjoy a 15m though.

I demoed a 12m Solo in 10-15 knots & IMO it def ain't relatively fast turning.

Do you have a good light wind board ?

I love the zephyr it seems to do every thing well launch toeside jump.I would also love to try a 14m pivot as the 12 has nearly same bottom end as my zephyr

Sam t94, I am not really looking at extending my currently non existent freestyle skills I would more be thinking about cruising around smashing some little waves on my surfboard or jumping on my twin tip in the higher end of the kite.

The naish fly is a kite I am seriously considering, I know you are on a very different program than me but how did you find this kite for turning speed and stability, I imagine the 2 strut lightweight design could mean it would have a bit of drift and the big open canopy is supposed to produce a lot of power but it also seems like it would pull downwind like a bitch. What do reckon about this kite ? Im guessing not so good if you sold it straight away

Toppleover, I do have a good light wind surfboard, a wainman gambler 5'10x20" which boosts the low end a lot I also have a fairly average twin tip which is 139x42 but the surfboard is where i could really be pushing the low end. You say you didn't like the liquid force solo? I have heard nothing but good reviews about this kite but most of them have come from people who sell them of course! What didn't you like about the kite? and do you think it really had a better low end than most 12m kites?

apepene43 I am off to maui in a couple of weeks and I hope to get a go on a pivot over there (14m would be good but any size would be nice)

I owned the FLY for a couple of months. It had heaps of pull and power, but it dragged you downwind like a BITCH, even trimmed heaps and feathering the bar trying to let it breath. Turning speed seemed reasonable for a 15m. I can't comment about it on a surfboard, but I personally wouldn't go there. A mate on his zephyr was able to kane me upwind and had way more stability, also way better for boosting. I have heard the new juice 15m is super grunty and really good upwind, super fun for boosting/waves too. If you do really want a big LW kite I think a 15 juice or zephyr would do you well.

Look at the 14m pivot too! everyone I know loves those things! Seems like it would be the perfect kite for you. I guy at my local spot gets out in bugger all wind stays on it no worries, boosts big, down loops it. Only reason I didn't get them is because they aren't that great for wakestyle. Really does seem like exactly what you are after. Would be my choice if I were you.

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JacobMatan said..
Sam t94, I am not really looking at extending my currently non existent freestyle skills I would more be thinking about cruising around smashing some little waves on my surfboard or jumping on my twin tip in the higher end of the kite.

The naish fly is a kite I am seriously considering, I know you are on a very different program than me but how did you find this kite for turning speed and stability, I imagine the 2 strut lightweight design could mean it would have a bit of drift and the big open canopy is supposed to produce a lot of power but it also seems like it would pull downwind like a bitch. What do reckon about this kite ? Im guessing not so good if you sold it straight away

Toppleover, I do have a good light wind surfboard, a wainman gambler 5'10x20" which boosts the low end a lot I also have a fairly average twin tip which is 139x42 but the surfboard is where i could really be pushing the low end. You say you didn't like the liquid force solo? I have heard nothing but good reviews about this kite but most of them have come from people who sell them of course! What didn't you like about the kite? and do you think it really had a better low end than most 12m kites?

apepene43 I am off to maui in a couple of weeks and I hope to get a go on a pivot over there (14m would be good but any size would be nice)

I was/still am looking for a better light wind surf kite than the 12m Airush Wave that I have now. After reading all the glowing reviews I thought this might be the kite I was looking for but.....after riding the solo for an hour or so, I put my 12m up. The difference in turning speed & kite response was that great that I thought I had put my 9 up by mistake.

Maybe give the Cloud kites a try while in Maui.

I would love to have a go on the cloud kites over there I would also look at a big Naish ride or fly, I think the low struts/no struts makes a lot of sense for light wind, I like the idea of having a big very light kite that stays in the air super easy if it also turned quick would be amazing but you do run into the possibility that the kite could be slow and a fluttery mess in higher winds or just generally not go upwind very well

I would be interested to find out

My input:
I purchased a 14 mt cloud as my lightwind kite to travel with. Amazing kite. Loops like a dream. 85 kilos and I am riding in waves in 10 to 12 knots, (tropical winds closer to the 12knt mark). The kite is super light so its great to travel with and weighs very little. I have had 10 sessions or so on it so far and it was super easy to dial in. Has great hang time jumping. Best part though is the light bar pressure. Most of the big kites I have flown in the 14 to 17 region (Zeph, Trx, Core, Airush) all have heavier bar pressure, with the trx being the lightest among that group. the trx also is the fastest of those others that I have tried and loops great as well. However I am most impressed with the cloud. It is an expensive kite though when compared to a Griffin, but for traveling it has made a huge difference in how I pack and what I can bring. The downside of the cloud is self landing. Hard to keep it parked if the wind comes up, you need someone to land it or a tethered approach, or release to flagging line and walk down wind to the kite. I have been kiting alone a lot on this trip, so it is something that I have had to deal with and have not always had a tethered option. But that is the only thing I don't like. This is a really great kite and Greg is fantastic to deal with. Super nice dude, answers all questions immediately, and the product is well made. I paid full price, and very happy that I now have one as my light wind option.

I'm very happy with my 14m Naish Park 2014. Easy upwind and awesome stability. I'm 100kg and normally out before everyone else. Worth a demo.

I'm very happy with my 14m Naish Park 2014. Easy upwind and awesome stability. I'm 100kg and normally out before everyone else. Worth a demo.

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ausmick said..
I'm very happy with my 14m Naish Park 2014. Easy upwind and awesome stability. I'm 100kg and normally out before everyone else. Worth a demo.

I have to second this as well. I have a Naish Park 14m and it's amazingly stable and quick turning in 15knots, or 12knots for you guys down south. I weigh 80kg so for you being over 100kg, at least 15knots could work well.
I've tried a lot of so called light wind kites, other than the Cloud with a 136 TT, but frankly the best and true light wind kites are foil kites over 12m in size for my weight.
i have a Speed 3 Flysurfer and it's an amazing light wind kite in 12 knots, 10knots on land if you're so inclined.
I know that's not what you're looking at and it's horses for courses with this in many ways, but I guarantee you're better off trying a few kites as suggested and go from there. Trial and error

to mix waves and light wind free ride with one kite, very hard.

i would say, speed 3 19m for freeride, if there is 12 steady knots for you then 15m. that will be good match for free ride. don't know about waves in 18knot, do waves exist when it 18 knot. i'm not aussie not sure about conditions there but are you down there do not have some blasting winds when there is waves session.

im 70kg speed 3 15m, 9-10 knots ride no problem. but below that is kind very boring to kite o twintip. you are busy all the time singeing up and down and not falling down :)

Hi samt94 thanks for the info that sort of confirms my suspicions about the fly, I would prefer an efficient kite that moves upwind and builds apparent wind, just having a big truck to pull downwind won't really do the trick, definitely keen on a juice in the 15m (i think 18m might be a bit overkill for what I am after) also I think I really need to get my hands on a pivot as all the reviews and descriptions seem to be exactly what I want out of a kite. I will check them out when I am in maui in a couple weeks.

Dafish, It is good to hear your feedback on the cloud I had checked them out on their site a bit and read some reviews, it is definitely interesting but I would need a real good go on one before I splashed out on one as it is a fair bit different than most other kites out there, do you use the cloud bar? it also looks like a completely different setup but does make sense for people who aren't unhooking. I am also interested in the griffin try the videos I have seen of them flying they look really quick and a lot of drift and stability, they also seem to be designed for the wave/freeride program I am after plus at $1530 for a brand new 14m with bar it is about the same as getting a big brand second hand !!

Loftywinds and 1950 a foil kite has to be the solution for true light wind sub 10 knots but I don't think I would go there just yet, can you use foils in the surf? Plus I am not really looking to push the light wind end more like just get the most out of the 12-18 knot range that we get a lot here. 1950 we do get waves even when there is no wind we are in a very big open ocean here so sometimes there will be proper swell not just wind waves, I would be looking for a steady 12knots as a minimum before I would bother heading out to kite (any less than that and you could just surf)

At your weight don't **** around. Go 17m +.

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Plummet said..
At your weight don't **** around. Go 17m +.

Spot on Plummet. its always a bit of a laugh hearing 14/15 refereed to as a light wind kite especially for TT. Foiling perhaps then yes.
See so many of guys that pump up and have a tough time trying to get going on 14/15 while others are out on 17,18,19m kites on TT having a blast. boosting, crusing going nuts. check out attadale almost any light wind day during winter.
The sooner people get over the fear/hate/issues with large kites, the sooner they can go out and enjoy twice as much time kiting. Even on the race boards/foils we still go big 17/18/19. it should be no issue to any kiter to fly 17/181/19 on a TT.
We loop the S#!t out of them in every direction for tacks and gybes, so there is no issues there.
There heaps of racers with large inflatable all selling, check SB sell section, kites are great prices, send a note and ask to give one a try. you wont be disappointed.

I can't say I have anything against big kites in fact I am pretty keen to give one a real go, I would have a gap from 10m to 17 or 18 then, i can get down to close to about 15 with my surfboard and 10m so do you think this gap would be ok ?

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JacobMatan said..
I can't say I have anything against big kites in fact I am pretty keen to give one a real go, I would have a gap from 10m to 17 or 18 then, i can get down to close to about 15 with my surfboard and 10m so do you think this gap would be ok ?

All the big 17/18/19 will easily handle 15 :) that said, if you launhcing when its lighter and it starts to pick up. Wouldn't suiggest checking BOM seeing 15 and think right 19m edge time. There is another South African lad down at attadale on a 19 edge 2 weeks ago cruising and boosting in around 15 knots quiet comfortably, he's 100Kg or so aswell. 12 knots 19 edge and raceboard was my sweet spot and im 92kg. if you looking getting a kite off of one of the racers, take a bar aswell, the depower is heaps more than a free-ride bar.

You can use foils in waves if there's enough wind to blow the kite downwind when the lines are slack so it doesn't just fall down. But it's hard work and a suboptimal solution.

Switch Helium?

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JacobMatan said..

Kamikuza thanks I have seen that review and the Flyte really seems like the one, they also did a review of the north juice up against the flyte and the flute still topped it (in their opinions at least)

Faced the same dilemma last season, demo'd the Flite based on the review and subsequently bought it. I have not been disappointed. Sweet spot 12 - 15kts get out as low as 8. Drifts well, turns fast in the upper range, in fact I find it handles very similar to my Drifter, always leaves a smile on my face, been plenty of days I've been the only one out. I'm 92kg, as a big boy you need the big kite.

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Kamikuza said..
You can use foils in waves if there's enough wind to blow the kite downwind when the lines are slack so it doesn't just fall down. But it's hard work and a suboptimal solution.

Further to this, Ive been using foils in waves for a couple of years. For general freeriding in the ocean, foils are great. In breaking waves, riding upwind (surfing up the line) works really well on either TT or surfboard. Down the line, that's the tricky part Kami is referring to. So kind of depends on what you want to do.

Im also 90kg and have been using my FS Speed 3 21 for all of the above in under 15 knots. Above 15 knots, I go to a 12. IMHO No need for anything in between (surfboard or TT). Go as big as you can afford.

Foilboard changes your quiver however.

The answer is to buy another board and not another kite (I have owned a griffin TRX 17m and airush 18m race).

pickup an airush sector 60 with lots of fin and boost / carve without shelling out for a big old slow kite. Should be plenty second hand as they are up to 5th generation and surely all these new foil riders had sectors when they were all the rage?

I weight 100kg and have surfboards and kite specific skim boards. Sector is easy to ride and durable for waves or jumps (so far).

good luck on your journey to maximise time on the water.

17m Trx has no low end. I'm not saying it's a bad kite.
Have had a look at the airush Vantage and that looks like a serious option. Owned core LW and they are up top on the list too.
Currently ride 14m rpm and with a plasma board get the same wind range as a zephyr but find the rpm way more fun.
Sorry to offend the zephyr fans.
Still looking for same or better low end and fun of the core.
I Want to know more about the core GTS3 17 but there is not much in the way of reviews.
The switch helium is another one the radar and should be good unhooked. Mate said it sits a fair way deeper in the window so will drag you down wind when overpowered.
Could still be a good option if I keep the 14 in my quiver.
Sorry if it's a bit of a rant. Had a loss and a few shsherbets

Switch Helium gets me going between 8 and 18 knots on a twin tip. It's a light wind specific kite, you can boost and do freestyle with it, not sure about waves though. It turns quick for such a large kite.

A 17m TRX and a North Nugget work really well in the surf.

About four of us have 17 or 14 TRX's and we all went to 20m lines and added 20cm pigtails to the rear lines..
Turns like 12!!!

Having the right bridle on the 17 trx is critical as there has been a fair bit of development in the last year. With my fiddling around I gained an extra few knots. I think Chris has details on the changes.

Looks like I should finish off the strut less 14m and 17m kites...

Just a quick reply to the TRX 17s comments above ( and other sizes ) low end has been massively improved with a new upgradable 2016 bridle coming out in the next week and bar pressure is lighter.

If you have a older TRX you an upgrade your 2013 2014 2015 TRXs with the new bridle to get considerably improved low end, better top, faster turning and lighter bar pressure Or you can mod your bridle using the plans online.

I am seeing with a few next seasons kites that kite designs are not changing a lot, but bridles are being improved and tweaked.

I like the idea of being able to upgrade your kite with a new bridle mod every year or so as most people keep there kites for 2-3 years anyhow.

Details are on the website forum under TRX, all the best,